Harry Dry, welcome to the Andy Hackers podcast.
Great to be here.
I'll be looking forward to it the whole day.
Ready to go.
Yeah, me too.
You are the creator of marketingexamples.com, which is a pretty remarkable site.
Why don't you explain to us what it is exactly?
Marketing examples.
It's a website where I write about real world marketing stories.
I think a lot of the marketing content out there at the moment is if you work for a big
company, you've got your big boss who will say, write me something which will rank on
Google.
You've got to shove in these four or five keywords and do it in one day.
With marketing examples, I don't really have any of that pressure or any of those constraints.
I think that's why the articles are perhaps slightly more interesting or engaging than
a lot of other bigger companies are producing.
I'm not really trying to rank for Google at this stage or anything like that.
That's just about what's the most interesting example out there.
That said, it's still pretty meta.
It's kind of fun to think about the fact that you're producing these case studies that offer
all this great marketing advice, and at the same time, you're building your website.
You're trying to grow your audience, you're trying to get more traffic, and so you can
learn a lot just by reading the case studies that you're putting out.
A million percent.
I think a lot of the...
It's actually funny.
A lot of the time, I like to write...
I feel like I could write four or five articles about marketing examples, but then it would
just go down too much of this weird black hole, and I don't know.
My dad doesn't want me to do that.
Put it that way.
He was gutted.
I wrote one about my own launch on product time.
He was like, son, none of this is right about other companies, two of your companies.
Well, it's very cool.
I'm looking at the site right now.
If you haven't been, it's marketingexamples.com.
The kind of case studies you're writing about are things like how Nomadlist dominates longer
tail keywords on Google search, why Notion's signup form converts so well, how Jason Cohen
does direct sales, how to get 30,000 Hacker News visitors to your website, how you got
2,000 new subscribers from Product Hunt.
Just these really solid case studies that if you're an indie hacker, you're probably
going to want to know about.
I think you've done a great job with these, and you've also been doing a great job sharing
your accomplishments behind the scenes.
Just this last month, you posted on your Indie Hacker's product page that you got your first
thousand email subscribers, then you hit 1,500 Twitter followers, then you launched on Product
Hunt and were the number one product of the week, and you got to 2,000 and 3,000 Twitter
followers, I think just today.
You're closing in on $1,000 a month in revenue.
It's quite a lot.
I'm just wondering how you're doing on a personal level, Harry.
Are you excited?
Are you calm?
Are you overworked?
Are you keeping it together?
What's going on?
That's a good question.
Life's good.
I think my goal for the year was to leave my job and become fully sustainable myself.
I've kind of get in there.
I sidestepped a little bit, so I started off on, I dropped down to two days at my job and
now down to zero days, and that's kind of mission accomplished.
I'm still trying to work it out.
I think my structure's pretty rubbish.
I haven't really worked out how to be employed by myself at the moment, but yeah, life's
all right, I think.
I like the library.
That's where I spend a lot of my time.
What kind of job did you have where you could just drop down to two days a week?
I worked at a web development company called Crowdform in London, and I did about, I think
I did about a year there or coming up to a year, five days, and I think over that time
I kind of built up enough trust with them, I suppose, and I said, can we do two days?
They very, very kindly said yes, and I started working on marketing examples at that point,
and then when I got my first sponsor, email Octopus, I decided, yeah, let's do it.
Let's go full-time and see how it goes.
I think they say that startup founders are risk takers, but I would say, well, actually,
I would completely quote from somebody else.
I can't remember who said it, that they're more risk killers.
With the two-day thing, it was like what takes out most startups, the fact that their founders
run out of money.
If I drop down to two days, I can have that little safety net to kill that risk, and then
once I get the sponsor, then I can move on to the next thing, and then another example
of killing risk would be like, all right, what if I have a co-founder or someone who's
this friction there and none of that stuff?
What if I'm spending loads of money on ads or I have lots of that kind of stuff going
on?
Again, nothing.
We don't spend very much money.
I'm trying to put marketing examples in a position where it's pretty impossible to destroy.
I feel like you can't really take us out.
Nothing's going to blow us up.
It's just going to roll on.
It's going to get bigger and bigger and better.
Tyson Fury says that the only way to beat Tyson Fury is to pin him down and nail him
to the canvas.
I think that the only way you can take out marketing examples is if you pin me down and
put nails through my hands.
I tell a lot of founders that the reason why most businesses fail is because the founders
quit.
The reason why founders quit is a lot of the stuff that you've identified.
It's because you haven't really mitigated some of these huge risks.
It's because you're working with a co-founder who you don't get along with and you have
disputes.
It's because you work on something that takes way too long to get off the ground.
You run out of money.
It's stuff like that.
These kind of preventable mistakes.
It's super smart for you to have structured things in such a way that you're mitigating
these risks.
Let's talk about that.
There's kind of a continuum.
On one side, you've got founders who are super thoughtful, put a lot of time into thinking
about exactly what idea they want to work on.
On the other side, you have people who are a little bit more intuitive.
They tend to work on the first thing that they're excited about, the first thing that
comes to mind.
Where would you say you fell on that spectrum when you were coming up with the idea for
marketing examples?
I think I was pretty methodical, really.
I thought about it deeply.
I'd had a bunch of startups, I suppose, very small things before which haven't gone very
well.
I think that the more, the worse it goes, the harsher you are on yourself.
You improve, essentially.
For this one, I think there's no such thing really as a good idea.
It's only such thing as a good idea for a specific person at a specific time.
When I was trying to come up with marketing examples, I had my goal in mind, really, which
was, I want to be financially independent, I want to make, it doesn't have to be a crazy
amount of, extraordinary amount of money, and really small.
That's why I thought that just marketing writing was a good idea as a small, humble project.
I think a lot of people end up trying to shoot for the moon, from the word go, and that can
often result in trying to build this huge rocket, perhaps, and then they spend a year
trying to build it.
It probably doesn't even end up getting launched, or if it does, the explosion doesn't really
go off quite right.
I just felt like I could grow the site slowly but surely to the position where I had a sponsor.
Someone might say that, oh, it's not very much money, it's $1,000 or $880, whatever
it is, but they're missing the point because when I was coming up with the idea for marketing
examples, money wasn't really my overarching, it wasn't really my currency.
I could have tried to get big investment, I wanted to just free up my time, that was
what I was after.
I looked at projects which had worked before, and stuff like, I feel like I saw a bit of
a pattern as sites like Nomad List, they produce information about cities, it grows into a
community.
Indie Hackers is the same, they produce originally information about, or interviews, sorry, with
founders who disclose their revenue, and now it's a big community.
Game Quitters is another example, it started when Cam Adler, I think his name is, wrote
a blog about how he quit video game addiction, and now it's this huge community, so I just
felt like the simplest thing I can do whilst I'm still working for this company is just
to start a simple website, start writing about marketing, and who knows where it might lead
to.
Yeah, Start Small is some of my favorite startup advice, and probably among the most oft-ignored
pieces of startup advice, but I think it's one of those things that once you've actually
lived it, once you've done the opposite, and been in the trenches, and you've been bitten
by that particular mistake, you really internalize it and you don't make that mistake again.
You've worked on some startups in the past that didn't go particularly well, what are
some lessons you've learned, what are some mistakes that you've made that you're determined
not to repeat?
Well, my first thing was psych with 140 Canvas, and it was you take custom tweets and you
try and sell them online, and I did it kind of just because I wanted to learn to code.
The lesson there was just didn't validate the idea or two, I just put it up and thought
that Product Hunt would do all the work, and that's an error which you make once and then
hopefully you switch on and just it doesn't happen again, then I probably made an even
worse mistake, after that I made this big dating site, and again, there was no real
kind of plan there, I think it was just, it went well, like the site took off in a major
way, it was a dating site for Kanye West fans, but I didn't have like a marketing plan.
I think with marketing examples, I've got a bit sharp, but like, I kind of know now
that I write the articles, I share them in X, Y, Z places, I share them in slightly different
ways in each in each places, they get read, the emails go up, the twister following goes
up, and I can build upon that.
Previously, I haven't really got the right analogy for it, but I think you have to go
through that phase as well, they say that, well, I like to say that success is the finish
wall, and failure are the bricks in the wall.
And I definitely haven't got any kind of big success yet or anything like that, but you
have to just go through the failures really to just understand stuff.
Yeah, the bricklaying process of failing over and over again, reminds me a lot of how I
started anti hackers, I also had some salient mistakes that I'd made from previous ventures
that I was determined never to make again, one of them I've talked about a lot, which
is that I really knew that I have a tendency to code for very long periods of time without
ever really getting to the point where I want to release the thing that I've coded.
And so I started anti hackers as a blog, just to prevent me from even being able to do that
a blog is so simple, there's just no there's no way to do that.
The other was kind of what you just touched on, which is that I had a marketing plan,
I knew exactly who my readers were, where they hung out online, what they like to read,
how to get my blog posts in their hands.
And so it made this whole trough of sorrow, you know, tough growth period much easier
for me, because I sort of knew how to grow.
It sounds like you had a plan as well.
How much of that plan did you figure out before you started working on marketing examples?
And how much of it did you figure out on the job?
Oh, I thought about it a lot.
I thought I saw what website would start the story, which actually was on the India podcast,
and I saw they just were growing slowly, but surely from personal Reddit.
So I knew that was a sort of angle for my job, I've been writing quite a lot of just
posts, blogs, I guess, about various things, and I sort of got a bit of practice sharing
them.
I was doing these blogs to for the crowd form the company I was working for, and we had
some success just pushing on Reddit, I'd share them all on any hackers, you just got to pick
out these watering holes where your audience hangs out.
I don't really look at any hackers like that so much.
I think the trick is, is to just to quote Adam, what weapon just offer value wherever
you are primarily.
So if you're on Reddit, don't just post the link, you won't get anywhere.
If you're on any hackers, don't just link a site, it won't get you anywhere.
If you're on Twitter, don't just link a blog, it won't get you anywhere.
If you're on Slack, don't just link a blog, it won't get you anywhere.
You have to sort of convince people to read it by boiling the article into something great
and then hoping that they click through, I suppose.
Yeah, a lot of people look at any hackers is just another marketing channel, which would
be fine if they thought about it the same way that you're thinking about it, the same
way that Adam Wadden recommends, which is to provide value and the place where you are.
No matter what channel you're using, you should understand it.
You should understand what people there find valuable and how they like to talk.
And you should put that as your number one priority.
And then it's okay if like, incidentally, you also link back to some other helpful content,
but that shouldn't be your primary goal.
And if you treat it that way, number one, you're probably gonna be breaking some rules,
you're probably gonna get reported or flagged.
But even in the best case scenario, people just won't find what you're posting interesting.
They're not gonna click because there's so much other more helpful content on that channel
that they would prefer to read, that they would prefer to click.
And I think people don't really get this because it's just a lot of work.
It's so much easier to copy and paste a link to your blog.
It's so much easier just to make the same posts on every channel.
But if you're doing it that way, it's probably because you're targeting way too many channels.
It's better to narrow your focus, just target one or two channels that you really understand
and you can really provide value there and ignore all the other channels because you
really just don't have time to do a good job.
And you've done a really good job at this with your posts on any hackers.
You take time every time you post a milestone to really explain how you hit that milestone
and you present it in a way that's helpful and people appreciate it.
You get hundreds of likes and comments on your milestones.
Yeah, I think it's so simple really, but you know, just make it interesting.
I mean, today I wrote one about Twitter and I must have spent probably about an hour writing
out the five tips I gave.
And I think, you know, the milestone in itself is good, like 3,000 followers, but without
giving insight, you know, it's not particularly interesting to other people.
Yep.
It's just empathy.
It's not about what you're trying to express as a writer.
It's not about what you're trying to accomplish or how many clicks you're trying to get as
somebody running your company and marketing for yourself.
It's about what readers want.
They're not going to read unless you give them what they want.
Like why are they taking their time out of their day to read this thing?
And it's not because they care that you hit 3,000 Twitter followers.
It's because they're thinking about how they can hit 3,000 Twitter followers.
And so you took the time to really write a whole post that helped them.
And then only incidentally, only secondarily, do they learn about your website marketing
examples?
Do they learn about why they should trust you and visit what you're doing?
So that's really the right way to prioritize things if you want to be effective.
Going back to talking about how you came up with the idea for marketing examples, I'm
curious if there were other competing ideas that you were considering that maybe didn't
make the cut.
Oh, no, it's actually the only idea I had is to be honest with you.
I think I had this idea for maybe two months before I started working on it properly.
Things always get really delayed.
So I had this big sort of story I was writing, which got pushed back and pushed back.
And then I think that helped me build a little bit of an email list.
It was a big story about the kind of dating that I kind of mentioned, from that I had
a little bit of a head start.
And they all seem to be interested in marketing.
So that kind of what seeded it for me.
And the other kind of stones just fell in place.
I think good advice is to build the product that only you can build.
And I can do a bit of development, a bit of design.
And I really like writing, specifically marketing stuff I find really interesting.
I don't think many people necessarily have all three of those skills, but I'm not the
best developer in the world.
I'm not the best designer in the world.
But I think that most marketers, they lack the ability to make really nicely designed
websites.
And they also kind of overkill on optimizations and SEO and all of that stuff.
I'm not knocking that, but that just left a little opportunity for someone who puts their
heart into it and who really cares, who actually is going to not necessarily work to a strict
deadline.
And when the article is done, it's done.
That's kind of how the idea came.
The very first post you made for your Andy Hackers product page for marketing examples
is called, how do I make money?
And you listed three different options that you had floating around in your head.
Number one was to build traffic and then reach out for sponsorships and advertisers.
Number two was to build paid features.
So you could, for example, charge people to access extra articles or charge people to
access your premium slack group.
And the number three was to build an audience and then sell something different to them.
So for example, a book or a course.
And you ended up settling on number one.
So I'm curious why that is.
Why did you decide to go with sponsors?
Why not go with paid features or building an audience and selling a different product?
Simply, it was the least work in the short term.
My goal, I had this green light this year, which I laid out ahead of me.
And it was, how do I make enough money to essentially work for myself and writing a
big course would have just taken a long time.
And you also have to have a big audience to do that.
I think bigger than what I had and build the community up and premium membership and stuff
would take a lot of code.
I'd have to write guides, I'd have to create user logins and all that stuff.
So it was just the first and the easiest.
One of your next milestones was getting to 100 email subscribers.
And in some respects, this is a very easy thing to do.
Just find 100 people that you know, friends, relatives, acquaintances, coworkers, and put
them on an email list.
But in some respects, it's also one of the hardest things to do.
Very few people even get to that point.
Most people drop off well before that.
How did you get your first 100 email subscribers?
Wow.
It's a trip down memory lane.
I think I saw I had 10 articles when I launched marketing examples.
And that's when I've launched and I just started sharing them each day.
So I would do for each article, there's a Twitter thread, which accompanies it.
So I'd start sharing these threads on Twitter.
My own Twitter account had maybe 1500.
So maybe I don't know, 40 of them sort of signed up.
When you write articles about other companies, if they're quite well written or well wrote,
I don't know which one it is, they often end up sharing them themselves.
So quite serendipitously, I found that a lot of these companies which I wrote about would
just promote the articles.
A lot of posting.
I mean, I joined about 10 Slack groups, 10 Facebook groups, and would always share there,
which hasn't actually gone particularly well.
There's no silver bullet.
I would say out of those 100 subscribers, five would have come from here, four would
have come from there.
Two of them are my parents.
And it's like, yeah, there's no kind of one trick.
Yeah, and I think it's smart that the main call to action on your website is this box
right at the top.
And it's like, enter your email address to get two new case studies every week.
Also at the bottom of every article, every case study that you do, there's a little form
for people to enter their email address.
And also, I think you've got a pop up at some point that I've seen where you're asking people
to join your mailing list.
How did you decide that getting people on your mailing list was sort of your number
one call to action?
And that would be the main thing that you want people to do.
To be honest with you, I had a chat with you.
You did office hours one time, maybe six months ago, and I was talking about this exact idea.
And you said to quote, I'm really bullish on email lists.
So I pretty much just followed that advice.
I mean, also, it's really obvious, like, maybe in hindsight, it's obvious, but I've seen
people using my listening in a great way, like, Wes Boss, for example, built up an email
list and it opens doors for you.
I think Julian Shapiro might have said also on this very podcast that, like, if you want
people to convert to something, an email list is the best choice.
We all know that maybe 10% of your tweets are actually read.
I also think it's a great point you made about the email box being there in the first place.
I thought a funny point today, I read an article by Glenn also, the guy who writes about SEO,
it was like best article, I think I read this this year.
And I just thought today that I never subscribed to his newsletter.
And I thought why?
Just because he didn't ask me to.
And it's the trick which people really miss, I think, you know, just be obvious about it.
You're helping out people.
Yeah, it's pretty straightforward.
If you ask people to do something, then it's easier for them to remember to do that thing.
And if you don't ask, then it doesn't really matter if you build the world's best website,
it doesn't really matter if you write the best article anyone's ever read, they're probably
not going to sign up.
So that's important to do.
It's also good just to have an email list in general, because email is a channel that
you control, nobody else can really take it away from you.
It's not subject to the algorithms of Twitter or Facebook or Google search rankings.
You can email these people about whatever you want, whenever you want, as long as they've
agreed to it.
So it's pretty cool to see that you've been able to build up your email list to close
to 5000 subscribers now, you've also been able to build up your Twitter following, you
said that that's sort of a strategy you relied on early on.
And it's a strategy that you continue to rely on.
Tell us about that.
How do you tweet effectively?
Wow, I mean, I can write like a book about that.
I think the first mistake, not necessarily a mistake, but the first blessing I've got
is to be creating an account which people actually want to follow.
So look at like, there's an account called podcast notes, and there's an account which
summarizes podcasts.
And there's an account called Naval Ravicant Bot, or another one called Nassim Talib Bot.
And with those accounts, you just know exactly what they do.
Podcast notes, summary of podcasts, Naval Ravicant Bot quotes from Naval Ravicant, Nassim
Talib Bot quotes from Nassim Talib.
There's no like jargon in there, they don't say at any point, oh, check us out on our
team visit.
Or by the way, can you pay us 30 pounds a month, like you if you like the blog.
So I think just me being called marketing examples.
It's not called marketing consultancy, where I like to eat all these stuff.
And then at the end of the day, can you please can you please pay me a subscription fee?
So I think, yeah, that's a, that's where I'd start.
Secondly, I'm just having a look at what I post on indie hackers today, I wrote all about
this.
Oh, yeah, Fritz.
So actually, for Fritz, you want to put all the value in the tweet itself.
So you're never going to grow an account like linking off to blogs, linking off to your
website all the time.
So what I do is every single blog I write or case study, I write, I sort of spend a
couple of hours writing it up in a Twitter thread, and you know, shortening the words
here and there making it all fit in summarizing parts of it.
And Fred's work really, really well to grow an account for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, with 280 characters, you can't really offer any real wisdom.
It also transcends into pseudo stuff like, you know, there's nothing to fear about fear
itself and rubbish like that.
But with Fred's you lift up the character limit, so you can actually say meaningful
stuff.
And a point, um, interesting point is the percentage of people who follow you after
the reading of Fred is going to be so much higher than just from an isolated tweets,
because over a stream of sort of seven or eight tweets, you can really build up trust.
Whereas one tweets just like a, you know, flashing the pan, I could go on, you know,
this is my bread and butter, really.
I think another thing, a really clear mistake people make is that they try and like over
optimize for retweets and for mentions from other people.
So they sort of write in their initial tweets at X, Y, and Z hashtag this hashtag that.
And it just looks so much like an adverts that no one, no one's ever going to really
retweets it.
So my kind of rule of thumb is you have to, the first tweet of the Fred or the Fred itself
has to be like crystal meth, like it has to be something that Walter white would, would
cook.
That's the level you've got to get.
So, um, Naval, again, sorry to bring this guy up, but his famous, you know, one was
titled how to get rich without getting lucky colon.
That's all it was.
There was no kind of, you know, look at this tweet at all.
And that's why people like to retweet it because it's pure crystal meth and inverted comments.
More stuff.
I mean, I think something marketing examples does really well is it creates a path which
links directly from the website to Twitter.
So at the end of every single article, I think this probably only works for the stuff I write,
I write about, like it has to be, you know, really sounds really arrogant, but it has
to be like a good article for the, for this technique to work.
Otherwise it's like, you know, not going to retweet that if it's a, another sort of article,
but I'll, I'll embed the first tweet of the Fred at the bottom that just sort of acts
as another call to action.
And I think it works a lot better than just a social share icon.
We've all sort of got, I think immune to them over time.
And I think a lot more people would actually follow me just from seeing the first tweet
of the Fred at the end of all the articles.
And finally, right, if you look at the amount of time, which I'm putting into each Fred,
it's maybe three days on the article and then another hour or two hours sort of transcribing
it to Twitter.
Other people are just not like putting in nearly that amount of work into it.
Most people just get out their iPhone and tap something up.
So it's, it's weird, but on Twitter, if you spend an awful amount of time on it, there's
actually, you can really stand out.
I bang on all the time about Steve Shoga and Adam Waffen, Steve's the guy who grew his
design Twitter from 1000 to 50,000 in a year.
And every tweet of his was just, you know, really, really amazing.
It got to a stage where I would just be scrolling down Twitter and I'd stop whenever I saw Steve's
icon and she'd be like, all right, this is a must that always just must reads.
I guess that's all I've got for you on how to grow Twitter.
That's a lot of great stuff.
And I hope more people follow your product page on any hackers, because for every milestone
you post, you go into this much detail sharing exactly how you hit that milestone.
You've talked about how you got product of the week on Product Hunt.
You've talked about how you grew your email list from 100 to 1000 subscribers.
You've talked about finding your first sponsor and a lot of other good stuff.
We don't quite have time to go into it for this episode because it's a quick chat, but
hopefully I will have you on the podcast again, Harry, we'll go into all this stuff in very,
very granular detail.
For now, let's zoom out a little bit.
I know you've been an indie hackers member for the last two years.
What have you learned in that time that you would like to impart to other people?
What's your advice for somebody who's maybe a fledgling founder, who hasn't gotten started
yet or has just now gotten started?
What do you think they need to know?
Derek Siver says that if more information is the answer, we'd all be billionaires with
perfect apps.
So I don't really think anyone listening needs advice.
The advice out there is to change the world, make a million pounds is already there.
Read Paul Graham's essays, read the indie hackers forum, listen to Kanye West music,
read To Kill a Mockingbird.
I would say, forget specific tips and tricks and stuff like that.
At the end of the day, focus on the really basic fundamental stuff.
We're talking discipline, being a decent person, patience, impatience, determination.
How honest are you with yourself?
If your startup fails, do you give up after that?
Do you keep going?
Do you try?
Do you try again?
Do you have patience to sit on a blog post for a few days and rewrite it?
I would say focus more on your character as a human being and just try and become a better
human being and the rest of it will fall into place.
If I'm being honest, a lot of this is just, in my opinion, just about brute determination.
If you keep going, you're going to make it.
So just become more determined.
Become a nicer person, treat all your users well.
Simple stuff.
Keep going and don't quit.
Work on your character and become a better person and the rest of it will fall into place.
I love that advice.
Harry, thank you so much for coming on the IndieHackers Podcast to have a quick chat
with me.
Can you tell listeners where they can go to learn more about what you're up to and learn
more about marketing examples?
Well, firstly, Courtney, thank you very much.
It's been a genuine pleasure to talk to you.
We're going to learn more.
I would say just marketingexamples.com at Good Marketing HQ on Twitter and at Harry
Dry.
You don't need to look at any of that stuff as well, just do your own thing and you'll
never get there.
All right.
Thanks, Harry.
Thanks again.
Just a quick note here for listeners, if you are interested in coming onto the podcast
like Harry to have a quick chat with me, go to IndieHackers.com slash milestones and post
a milestone about what you're working on.
It can be pretty much anything.
People post about launching or finding their first customer.
They post it about growing their mailing list or hitting 1,000 followers on Twitter.
They post it about getting to all sorts of different revenue levels.
So the sky is the limit.
Whatever you're proud of, come celebrate it on IndieHackers.com slash milestones and
other IndieHackers will help you celebrate.
We love supporting each other.
We love encouraging each other when we hit these milestones and what I'll do is at the
end of every week, I'll look at the top milestones posted and reach out to people to invite them
to come onto the podcast for a quick chat.
So once again, that's IndieHackers.com slash milestones.
I'm looking forward to seeing what you post.
If you enjoyed listening to this conversation and you want a really easy way to support
the podcast, why don't you head over to iTunes and leave us a quick rating or even a review.
If you're looking for an easy way to get there, just go to IndieHackers.com slash review
and that should open up iTunes on your computer.
I read pretty much all the reviews that you guys leave over there and it really helps
other people to discover the show.
So your support is very much appreciated.
In addition, if you are running your own internet business or if that's something you hope
to do someday, you should join me and a whole bunch of other founders on the IndieHackers.com
website.
It's a great place to get feedback on pretty much any problem or question that you might
have while running your business.
If you listen to the show, you know that I am a huge proponent of getting help from other
founders rather than trying to build your business all by yourself.
So you'll see me on the forum for sure, as well as more than a handful of some of the
guests that I've had on the podcast.
If you're looking for inspiration, we've also got a huge directory full of hundreds
of products built by other IndieHackers, every one of which includes revenue numbers and
some of the behind the scenes strategies for how they grew their products from nothing.
As always, thanks so much for listening, and I'll see you next time.