Bienvenido a Jordi, bienvenido a la jugadora.
Gracias por tenernos aquí.
Muy muy feliz de tener tiempo para estar aquí con nosotros.
Antes de que nos digamos las preguntas,
quería comenzar.
¿Cómo empezaste a ser VCs?
¿Cómo empezaste?
Bienvenido a Jordi.
¿Tienes conocido en la consultación?
Sí.
Mucha gente es consultadora,
pero no todo se convierte en VCs.
Dime algo sobre la evolución.
Bienvenido.
La mayoría de los compañeros que empezaron con Jordi
tienen una basura de consultación.
Hemos empezado con nuestra propia basura de consultación
después de la estona, como en 1993,
en la consultación de teléfonos.
Llegamos a una compañera de 10 personas a 600 personas.
En 1993 y en 2000,
fuimos ricos para vender nuestra compañera
a una empresa de consultación de Chicago
llamada Diamond.
Y nosotros becameimos Diamond Cluster
como compañera.
En el año 2000, empezamos a disminuir nuestra compañera
por al menos una tercera, que es muy sorprendente.
Espero que no haya que hacerlo de nuevo en mi vida.
Y en 2004, la mayoría de los fundadores de esa empresa
que empezamos en 1993
decidieron que cambiaremos el trabajo.
Continuamos a ser involucrados
con el ecosistema tecnológico,
pero de diferentes perspectivas.
Entonces, empezamos en 2004.
Empezamos nuestro primer fundador,
que era, en ese momento, un Eurofund de 15 millones,
que era nuestro dinero y algunos amigos de dinero
en la industria, la industria de teléfonos.
Nos encontramos con muchos errores.
Con nuestro primer fundador,
no hay físicos,
no hay ingresos,
no hay focos geográficos.
A un punto en el año 2006,
después de eso, decidimos,
nos preguntamos si deberíamos hacer algo para el futuro.
Fortunadamente, en 2006,
el ambiente económico fue muy positivo.
Así que fuimos suficientes
para creer nuestro segundo fundador,
que era 50 millones de euros,
con algunos oficinos familiares
y el inicio institucional
de dinero en ese momento.
Y el fundador de 2006
aprobó ser un buen fundador,
en términos de resultados actuales.
En 2010, creamos nuestro tercer fundador,
que se llamaba Nauta 3,
que era 105 millones,
un fundador,
y nos cerramos nuestro cuarto fundador,
como dos semanas atrás,
con 155 millones.
Así que eso es lo que empezó todo.
Exactamente.
Es algo para decidir
para ser investidores.
Claramente, consejos de la industria tecnológica,
de ser consultadores.
Pero, ¿cómo vas a encontrar
los LPs para regresar?
¿Cómo vas a hacer eso?
Es una cosa difícil de hacer.
El primer fundador no fue difícil de creer,
porque usamos
algunos de nuestros dinero,
y algunos de nuestros amigos,
para empezar y proveer a nosotros.
El segundo fundador
fue un poco más difícil,
porque teníamos que ir y hablar
sobre nuestro network,
si quieres.
Creo que
nuestra historia anterior
con la empresa de consultadores
fue excelente.
Entonces,
took advantage of that position
we had back in 2006.
So there were people that
recognized that we had done
some things correctly
by building a business,
ourselves.
So I think that it was all about it.
It was less about track record
or thesis or anything, it was more about
our own track record as entrepreneurs.
Who were your first big LP?
I think that
for say the first institutional fund
the 2006 fund
was mostly family offices,
and it was pretty distributed.
So we did not have
one single LP
that acted as an I-Core investor
for our fund, so we talked
to a number of local,
by local meaning
Madrid and Barcelona families.
And then we had
I think one small institutional investor
at the time, but most of the money was
private money coming from family offices.
Was it hard to convince them?
I mean how do you convince a family office
that's used to maybe more safe
bets than venture capital?
I think that the family offices,
some family offices
value
the fact that we can act
as a vehicle
to get engaged with
technology.
Back in 2006
technology was something pretty new
for most of the say
wealth
available in the country.
Some of them would do
direct investments, which
I think it's hard to do,
unless you devote the right amount
and the right quality of resources
happen.
So these people felt, I think,
that we could be a good vehicle
to get started with technology.
Ah, that's interesting.
And then there's the last question
about Naotamin.
You said you have a lot of family offices
with you.
The latest fund that you raised
now.
What kind of LPs do you have there?
Obviously things have changed since 2006.
So this last fund
50% private money.
This means families
not only coming from
say, based in out of Spain,
but also from other geographies.
So we have private money
coming from Latin America
and also some countries
in Europe.
Italy, the Netherlands, the UK
and we even have some money coming from
family offices in China.
So this is 50% of our funds.
The other 50%
is institutional money.
Both private institutional money
and public institutional money.
Can you name some of the...
The usual suspects in the public domain.
So we have the ICF here
in Barcelona.
We have the EIF from Luxembourg
the European Investment Fund.
We have the British Business Bank
which is sort of
private public bank in the UK
that supports groups
that regularly and hopefully
successfully invest
in the UK and we actually have been
the first
non-English domicile fund
that has received investment
from the BBB, the British Business Bank
and then we have other private institutions.
Right.
And over to you Blair.
I mean, Activa
has also been around for a long time
here in Barcelona, especially when we are talking
about VCs, I mean it's not the longest
tradition for VCs here.
You have been with them for a long time as well.
Can you go through a bit
of how you got started?
Yeah, we actually started a very similar
time back in 2004
was our first fund also.
But we came from a different background.
So this came about
because basically a group of guys
got to know each other, either through
university, being in the same university
or having been in the same city
or childhood friends.
Three of them were the
executive partners, the founding partners.
Two from Germany, one from Sweden
and a local investor
from the Cementos Molins,
a very large cement business
one of the larger family
offices here in Spain.
And Joaquín Molins
decided he wanted to
promote an initiative
in the venture capital space.
My three partners
at the time were in the late 20s
were looking to do something
in the same space
and they got together.
They gathered together other family offices
from the Spanish and German markets
and they set up a 20 million
Euro fund in 2004.
So
rather than being from a, let's say, the same
backgrounds, they came from different backgrounds.
So one of them came from investment
banking, another from entrepreneurship
and another from consulting.
So it was more a complementary approach.
And our first mistake was
we invested in innovation
we invested in innovation
in a wide sense. So not just technology
but also non-tech.
The technology went well for us
but the non-tech didn't.
And why do we have that approach at the time
because there wasn't a lot of tech deal flow
in Spain in 2004.
So it was a fairly scarce market
for good investment opportunities.
That's changed a bit and from about 2006
we've only done tech investments.
It was really where we started to see
more tech deals coming through.
But you're, you know, four guys in the
end of your 20s, you're fairly young.
I mean
was it the goodwill of a family office
that you got you started or
I mean how do you convince, you know,
people to hand over their money to
fairly young people?
Yeah, I mean I think there was
relevant experience there.
So one of the founders had
been one of the very early
founders, early employees
en autoscouts or set up
internet businesses.
Another one had been working his whole
career basically in consulting
between investors and startups.
So they had a number of years experience
in that space.
And the other came from a more investment banking,
let's say a more traditional background
but on the finance side.
So there were relevant skill sets.
My background, I was a lawyer so when I joined
in 2006.
That we didn't have.
So basically
that fund we
invested in our second fund
we raised between 2008-2010.
So the second fund
which was a
54 million Euro fund
investing only in technology
started in 2010.
And do you have the same LPs all the way up?
No, we have some that have
followed us, maybe through different
vehicles but the people
behind them are similar.
But the first fund was only family offices.
The second fund is a mix
like Jordi was saying no
between family offices and institutional.
And
not a dissimilar mix of institutional.
So European investment fund
local investors like the ECF
and also Telefonica.
So we're
part of one of the Telefonica's
initiatives that they had running in 2010
called Amerigo
where they chose a few fund managers
in different geographical markets.
So yeah,
I think that's how these funds tend to evolve.
You have a small group of people
that trust in you at the beginning
and then you have some track record
in which institutional investors can
add to the decision making process.
And I mean over to the
particular
VC itself as it is today.
I mean what makes
not as special.
There's a long list of VC's
both in Spain it's growing
and in Europe in general there's many VC's
but I mean you have
some track record, you have
many good exits
but I mean
what's special about you?
First, I think
that we are one of the oldest
now in the market
maybe together with the active guys.
So we've been around for quite some time
compared to most of the new groups
that are popping up.
I think that
at least one good thing
which is that we've
had the opportunity to make mistakes
and still be alive
which I think this is a value actually
that say older groups have.
We from the beginning
have taken an international approach
so when we started our
2006 fund so
more than ten years ago we decided that
if we wanted to grow
the funds
that we manage
we had to be
to go international
so as early as 2006
we opened our Boston office
and we
asked someone that
we knew from our
past experience to join us
as partner in Boston, Dominic
and we quickly built
an investment
right.
In 2011
right after the race of our third fund
we did the same thing
in London
and since 2011 we have a partner
and an investment team in London
that is
investing
I would say around a third of our available funds
in the UK and Ireland
market.
So we have actually
I think become a
fund
we are a Barcelona based
fund we invest
significantly less than half of our
available money in Spain
because we don't think we could invest more
with the right
with the right returns
for our investors
so we decided that we had to go international
if we wanted to grow
and for this new fund
the idea is that we would like split
the baby in three
and again invest around a third
of our available money
in each of the three geographies
so we do
East Coast
US East Coast from Boston
and this means basically Boston and New York
then we do
London and Dublin from our London office
and from Barcelona we try to cover
the Iberian Peninsula
and those are the three areas of focus
and I think that
not very many funds
in Spain
and even in Europe
have this geographical footprint
I think that it's important
because it allows us to
access opportunities in different markets
it also allows us to build
a community of companies
or entrepreneurs in different markets
and hopefully
by doing this we make them also share
experiences
the fact that we've been around
in the US for ten years now
I think helps our
European and most particularly our
Spanish portfolio
when it's time to travel
to the US
either say in full
or at least commercially
so I think that this is a
differentiating proposition
and you think it's hard for a VC fund
that's operating out of Spain
to only focus on Spanish companies
or in the technology sector
it depends on what is your strategy
I think that they are viable strategies
for Spanish based funds
that focus only in Spain
it has to do I think with
what your investment thesis is
and also the size of your fund
if someone asked us to invest
the full 155 million of this last fund
in Spain
only we would for sure decline
the mandate
and actually this has been one of the reasons
que a lot of institutional
investors in Spain
are not part of
our investor base
because we cannot commit to certain things
and you think the amount you have now
in Spain which is roughly 50
we believe that
say in the investment period we are starting now
and with our investment strategy
which is to invest in
Series A
or Series C plus companies
I think it's okay
for around 10 companies
over a 4 year period
should be okay
I mean
you also have
a strategy of your own
I can imagine
tell us a little bit about what makes you different
in Europe
I think we have taken this approach
since the beginning
of being Barcelona based
but also looking at other markets
so we have not gone to the UK
or the US
we have focused on a north to south corridor
between Scandinavia, Germany and Spain
given the background
and the professional histories
of each of the partners behind
so since 2004 we have been investing
in those markets
we have not set up offices in those markets
it may be something in the future
that comes
so we will have to just
see there
I would totally agree with what Jordi says
so what we can bring to the table
is the 12 years experience
of investing in early stage companies
understanding their pain points
understanding the challenges
understanding that what happens over the next month
perhaps looks critical
but it's maybe a bump
on the road towards something much bigger in the future
so I think that experience
whether you acquire it as a VC
whether you acquire it as an entrepreneur
or whether you acquire it
in some other way
it's fairly critical
in supporting the companies going forward
so I think
that combination of factors
the geography experience that we have
seeing what happens in Germany
seeing what happens in Scandinavia
being able to offer that experience
into Spanish companies
likewise
in the case of Nautas
about going to the US in our cases
about maybe a more European approach
I think this helps
start-ups
moving a bit forward
we were talking about funds
you have two funds
in total
and you are on your fourth now
and I think it was interesting that you made some mistakes
and you have been allowed to make some mistakes
and that made you stronger
but I never heard this
from a VC standpoint
you hear it all the time from entrepreneurs
fail fast
failing is good
now you raised your fourth fund
and it might be
a good indication
that you are a successful fund
because a lot of your portfolio companies
now are exiting
is that how you see yourself now
you are raising your fourth fund
for you a sign that
it's a successful fund
I think that
the building of Nautas as an institution
as an investment institution
is going according to plan
so we
we
designed a plan back ten years ago
and we are trying to execute on that plan
you have to have in mind that
raising your first and then second
and building an institution
for early stage technology investing
is like being an entrepreneur
sometimes I think entrepreneurs think that
we are like a bank
or a ministry
or whatever
and we actually are entrepreneurs
so maybe not every 18 months
but every three or four years
we have to go to the market
tell a story, show results
and raise money
and this is exactly what our entrepreneurs have to do
so
this is an entrepreneurial project
and I think it will continue to be like this
for the foreseeable future
so entrepreneurs should not look at us
as say a different
beast
we are just like them
the only thing is that our business is a bit different
but this is all about entrepreneurship
do you agree?
I totally agree, I think
when you are raising the fund
and you are pitching to investors
you put yourself in the shoes of the entrepreneur
pitching to VCs and getting loads of nos
and say no, no, no
and it's about
keeping that stamina, keeping that going
and I think this is
it doesn't happen every 18 months
as Jordi was saying
maybe in the case of entrepreneurs it's more like that
we have a slightly longer cycle
but then when the cycle happens
it potentially takes longer
and it's very time consuming as well
I would say
it's either more difficult
than raising money
if you are
say an entrepreneur
at least a technology entrepreneur
because entrepreneurs normally have something to show
they have a reality, they have a business
they have some customers, they have revenue
when you start raising a fund
you just have a project
an investment thesis
a team, etc.
but there's nothing tangible coming out of this fund
because the fund does not exist
it's just about a promise
that we try to support with as much evidence as possible
but it's just a project
it's a smoke
at the beginning
so I think this is why it takes time
Was it easier now
this time around?
I think it's easier because
easier in the sense that you have
some goods to show
not obviously from the fund you're raising
but from previous funds
you're more known
so there's people that
have looked at you in the past
they have declined for whatever reason
but have been following you
over the previous 3 or 4 years
and now they are able to track you
compare what you are today
against what you promised
3 or 4 years ago
I'm not saying it's
easier
because the funds you want to raise
are bigger, the environment for investing
might have changed
we actually saw that so
second fund in 2006 was
from an environment point of view
relatively easy
to raise, the 2010 fund was much harder
the local economy
was heavily hit
had been heavily hit by
the safe real estate crash
so there wasn't that much money
around that time
so it also depends
difficulties also tied to
what is your environment
I mean when startups pitch to you guys
they're showing you metrics
and milestones and these things
but I guess what you're showing is companies
and what they have achieved
and what they have returned
what success cases are you showing
when raising a fund
like examples, what kind of companies are you
showing off?
obviously you show
because an important factor
for raising a new fund
is your track record
so what you have done in the past
with your previous funds
the amount of money that
you have given back or returned back
to your investors
this is I think key
is still life
in your current portfolio
you have to prove that
so we use our exit
as a proof of what we can do
but it's not only about this
it's only about thesis
for this new fund I think we've had to work
our investment thesis
so what we're planning to do
how are we going to
produce the new fund formation
how many companies, geographies, verticals
all this needs to be
bulletproof
especially if you are pitching
very
educated investors
which is the international institutional
segment
that are actually benchmarking you against
the most successful funds
not only in Europe but in the US
wow, and it's getting more competitive
every year
do you think?
I think that
no, I would agree
sophisticated investors
do a level of due diligence
and they have a very high bar
that you have to meet
so I would say the same thing
I think it depends
where you are in the previous fund cycle
how many companies you sold
what kind of traction each of those companies has
and also how the portfolio is made up
is it one star
is it a more broader approach
and each investor might have their own requirements
I think
from a fund raising
point of view
finding those key arguments
is in the same way as entrepreneurs
have to find key arguments in their sales pitch
why would this investor
invest in me
is it because of my vertical
is it because of my team
is it because of my geographic focus
is it because of my track record
so I'm a serial entrepreneur
and therefore they believe I'm going to do it again
so there are various
and each investor
whether it's our investors
or whether it's the investor looking entrepreneurs
has their own reason for investing
so some of the public funds
are more looking at supporting
the local ecosystem
in some way
some pure finance institutions
are looking for maximum return
whereas maybe the public ones
are looking for that financial return
but are prepared to take a point or two off
so it's
there are so many factors
you raised two funds
are you in the plan of
raising a third
is that a question that's okay to ask
our plan
at the moment
we're building that thesis
we're putting together the pieces
to understand what that will look like
but the natural progression
to have a third fund
do you have a time frame
or is it more in planning
no, we're working on it
at the moment
so once we have the base
in which we're going to build
we'll take that to market
but these processes can take
months, years
everyone can be different
between this year and next year
we want to be
having a third fund up and running
moving a bit forward
to the company itself
because this is your work
to invest and find
entrepreneurs promising companies
how many entrepreneurs do you see
per month, is that a fair question
no, so we see hundreds of projects
a year
and when I say hundreds of projects
these are conversations we've had
or calls, not just seeing
50 at four years from now
but actually having a sit down
so I don't know what that works out
on a monthly basis
and I think
it's not a matter of necessarily having
to be in a process
so entrepreneurs don't say
we don't speak to entrepreneurs just when they're looking for money
no, it's about
building relationships
and maybe you have the first contact with an entrepreneur
18 months before they're looking for cash
because you're interested
in their story
so when you start
thinking about investing in them
then you already know them very well
yeah, for me that's a benefit
it doesn't have to be like that
but it's very much a benefit understanding
how they've been working
have they been consistent in their path
over the years
have they been able to execute
what they were talking about
12 months ago when I met them for the first time
if not, why not, what have they learned
in the process, where are they now
rather than someone turning up
expecting to do an investment in 3 months
yeah, yeah, yeah
first of all, what kind of stage companies
are you mostly looking at?
yeah, so we focus in the first one
and the second one on A rounds
so I would say a Spanish European A round
we've done some seed deals
we've done some large A small B rounds also
so tickets for us
have been somewhere between 1.5
to 2.5 million
on average
so what kind of metrics is important to you
I think a lot of entrepreneurs
especially early stage companies
are interesting in knowing
what are the metrics I have to show to Blair
if I'm meeting him
what are you looking to?
I want to see metrics
which support the story you're selling me
so if you're telling me
that my vision is to do this
but I have no sales
I have nothing to show
what can you show me
that makes sense for this story
if you're telling me you're going to be the biggest app
downloaded
in the European market
I want to see evidence that you've had lots of downloads
of your app
maybe that doesn't have to be monetized yet
if that's your strategy
but positive unit economics
so your typical lifetime value
compared to customer acquisition cost
again
seeing that your strategy
that you're trying to execute is backed up by the metrics
right
so if you're saying
we're investing in a company
which has no revenues and no business model
we had fantastic technology
and a very clear idea of what that technology
was going to be used for
the how was still to be determined
that's okay for you investing in a company
we did one of those
because we can't have a whole portfolio
in our thesis we don't want a whole portfolio
of those
but we can have examples of those
likewise we've done very late stage
deals
which offer a lower return
but maybe a safer bet
can I ask what company it is
that kind of company
where the technology is brilliant
but maybe the unit economics
wasn't there from the first start
well there was no business model
no business model
okay sorry
they had ideas
the company was called Trati
which is a company that wanted
to create
a passport
for your online reputation
so you would plug in this passport
into shared economy type platforms
they had the whole technology
to allow them to identify
what sort of online reputation you had
but how they were going to take that technology
and use it in the market
they had an idea
what they thought was the
hypothesis
and it makes sense from a business model point of view
we believed
in the technology
in the team and their vision
to be able to create this layer of reputation
for the online user
and for the last
2 or 3 years
they've been testing different models
in that space
some with success, some without success
but that's one example
of 16 companies we have
so we wouldn't be looking
for another 15 like that
of course
so most of them fall into
a round company
typically a round company is looking for
1.5 to 2.5 million
to support the next phase of the business
with some track record
which shows what they want to execute on
is going well
whether that's revenues, whether that's downloads
whether it's
user acquisition matrix
or a combination of those different ones
I think
for me it's very much horses for courses
you have to take
what are you looking at
what are we looking for
is there a fit there
and what we're looking for
why is this team sitting in front of me
the best guys to do it
and what can they show me
to convince me to invest in them
on the other side
it's the same thing I have to do when I'm speaking to my LPs
what are they looking for
and what can I show
that gives them confidence
to invest in me
Is it when you're hearing this
do you have the same kind of thesis
meaning companies?
I think what we look for
more than a strict set of metrics
we look for a strict consistency
between who they are today
the amount they're raising
and
what they want to be
when this money disappears
right
and we looked at the definition of victory
so what has to happen in 18 to 24 months
so that
the company and the investors
we have options
we can have the option to
maybe eventually sell the company
or continue as is
because they are close to profitability
or
if there is an opportunity
looking forward then
we might want to raise additional money
either from external investors
or from the existing investors
so I think that
as I said
it has to be consistent
the equation between who they are today
the money they raise
and the 18 to 24 month definition of victory
so who they want to be
if this makes sense
we are less strict
about whether they should have
20,000 euros MRR
or 5,000
ok, so this is not set at all
no
I also, we have a fund
of a certain size so there are things
that we cannot do
we cannot invest
a significant portion of our money
in pre-revenue companies
because these companies probably need a million or less
we have a 155 million euro fund
so
we have to make sure that
the money we can deploy when we come in
is between say
1 to 4 million
¿y cuántas empresas están en contacto
en un año normal
es difícil
depende de cómo definir contacto
pero seguro que
sabemos al menos 100 nuevas empresas
cada mes
no, no, pero
combinando todas nuestras geografías
que no significa
que estas empresas
tendrán algún tipo de fit
con nuestras fases de inversión
las nuevas empresas que llegamos a saber
yo diría
que cada mes
estamos siguiendo
al menos, yo diría, tres empresas per geografía
10 empresas en total
siguiendo, significa
poner recursos para analizar
sus negocios
reunir con los entreprenedores
hablar con sus clientes
en caso de que tienen clientes
entonces ellos saben
que están analizando
y no están pensando en las mismas
no, yo diría
la idea es crear un funnel
y lo más cercano
es el funnel que es
el investimiento que hace
los más recursos que spentas
el más tiempo que dedicas
pero no quieres hacer eso
con cientos de empresas
si, si
tenemos que investir, en nuestro caso
tenemos 16 investimientos por unos 4 años
o 4 empresas a un año
así que cada cuarta, si justo average
cada cuarta tiene que hacer 1 investimiento
así que hay que ser
empresas en ese proceso
durante ese cuarta
que te permite hacer 1 investimiento
o más o menos
por el curso del año
entonces, yo diría
tienes que decir no
mucho más que
que tal vez te guste
desde un punto de vista personal
yo diría que quieres
coger entreprenedores
quieres apoyar a ellos
darles consejos, darles feedback
pero eso no es necesariamente lo mismo
como hacer un buen investimiento desde vc
no, no, no
siempre quiero distinguir
entre qué es una buena empresa
y qué es un buen investimiento de vc
porque no es necesariamente
siempre lo mismo
entreprenedores que no obtengan vc dinero
muy muchos successfules
entreprenedores con vc dinero
también
entreprenedores con vc dinero
que no han sido sucesivos
y por lo tanto
las empresas de vc nuevas
pueden ser sucesivas o no sucesivas
entonces vc no es el
mejor entreprenedor
es una manera alternativa
para financiar a su empresa
y una situación de vc
y entreprenedores
creo que hay algún tipo
de entreprenedores vc
más que otros
creo que algunas empresas
desde el principio
creo que algunas empresas
pueden decir que no son vc
fundados pero son muy sucesivos
en el final
¿hay similitudes entre
las empresas que no tienen vc
fundados y son sucesivos
y las empresas que son vc fundados
y son sucesivos?
generalmente
las empresas que no tienen sucesivos
pueden ejecutar muy bien en su plan
vc es una manera
de obtener experiencia
es una manera de obtener dinero
si puedes financiar a su empresa
y tener experiencia
de otros consejeros
no te dieres 20% de tu negocio
si tengo 2 millones
en mi banco
y estoy preparado para financiar a mi propia empresa
puedo tener 100% de mi negocio
pero voy a dar una parte de eso
creo que el capital ventral
es muy bueno
para lo que ofrece
hay mucha experiencia
pero no significa
que eres un buen entreprenedor
o no tener vc
creo que
como sector
tenemos que mirar a nosotros
por qué tienen que elegir vc
básicamente porque quieren dinero
y quieren una experiencia que va con eso
quieren dinero y quieren
elegir algunas otras cosas que quieren
con eso
pero si no necesitan el dinero
no tendrán que venir a vc
creo que tenemos que ser humildes
con ese respeto
es una relación simbiótica
que juega contra el otro
tenemos que obtener algo
por invistir
por trabajar alongside
para 5, 7 años
exactamente
y los entreprenedores tienen ese bump-up
y ese financiamiento
por lo que no tienen los recursos personales
o no tienen el banco financiero
estoy curioso
porque están en Barcelona
¿están en la misma compañía
a veces?
¿están mirando a las mismas compañías?
¿cómo funciona eso?
¿están interesados en invistir
en la misma compañía?
no ha ocurrido mucho
pero ha ocurrido mucho
un caso interesante
creo que fue una historia de suceso
en el mismo sector
pero con diferentes compañías
en 2008
en 2006
hicimos el investimiento
en Pruvalia
hicimos en 2008
hicimos el fin de 2006
en 2007
hicimos este modelo de sellos privados
que se convirtieron
en Francia
se convirtieron en Pruvalia
y en Barcelona
hicimos BIVIP en Madrid
hicimos BIVIP
buscamos
las varias compañías
que vinieron en ese espacio
hicimos BIVIP
en el A round
y nos vendimos
el buscamos en 2010
en Amazon
y ahora
hicimos el investimiento en Pruvalia
12 meses más tarde
y se convirtieron en Pruvalia
el año pasado
pero exactamente el mismo buscamos
exactamente el mismo sector
los dos entrepanorios
uno en Barcelona
y el otro en Madrid
eluchen también aケr receptors
estaba muy relajado
pero
hemos buscado el sector
y hemos investidos en diferentes compañías
que ha competitado hoy Si
hay muchísimas theos
con los que necesita el poisoned
los funcionarios
Es mucho mejor tener dos o tres tarancas de un punto de vista entre entretenido,
y hablar solo con un investidor.
Y hablando sobre algunos de tus casos de suceso,
es interesante en tu opinión, en términos de exceso,
¿qué es el caso de suceso, en términos de dinero?
Creo que hemos tenido un número de sucesos en España
y también en España afuera.
Pero en España hemos tenido, obviamente,
la Pribalia que sucedió el año pasado.
Era un gran suceso, casi un 1.5 billón de suceso.
Y la empresa probablemente usó mucho dinero.
Así que, quizás mucho dinero,
si lo miras en perspectiva,
porque hubo un dinero que fue tomado,
que fue usado para una adquisición en Alemania.
Una empresa de comercio, el Segment Flash Sales,
que no trabajó.
Pero ha sido un gran investimiento para nosotros,
porque hemos dejado la serie A-Round, como Blaire dijo,
y ha resultado en un gran suceso.
Creo que lo que hemos aprendido de la Pribalia,
es que para construir un gran suceso,
necesitas pacientes.
Creo que la empresa empezó en el final de 2005,
fue a través de la Pribalia,
y luego dejamos la serie A.
Creo que la última serie fue llamada la serie H en Pribalia.
Así que hay mucho dinero usado,
mucho suceso,
y ha sido la empresa de 11 años,
para actualizar.
No creo que sea un suceso,
y hay que ser cognizant de que los sucesos construyen el tiempo.
Estás contento de esto también,
porque estás en un escenario de tiempo, ¿no?
Sí, tuvimos la oportunidad de tener un muy buen escenario,
en el camino.
Creo que en 2011,
hemos already soldado una parte de nuestros sucesos.
Entonces, tenemos nuestro dinero,
todo el dinero,
y todo el dinero que hay.
Y luego, todo el resto de los sucesos.
Entonces, si estás capaz de manejar este tipo de sucesos,
tus sucesos tienen menos sucesos,
sobre el resultado final,
y todavía mantienes una parte de nuestro suceso,
como suceso.
Estoy interesado porque he ido a grandes sucesos,
con tus compañías propioles,
pero ¿cómo activas están ustedes,
personalmente,
a través de los sucesos, a través de los años,
trabajando con los sucesos.
¿Cómo tan cerca trabajas?
Estás interesado en los sucesos, ¿no?
Sí, eso es correcto.
Es un gran suceso,
y un suceso suceso.
¿Cómo interesaste tú ahí,
en un mes a mes?
Sí, creo que
tomamos diferentes procesos.
Tenemos más contacto regular,
para entender cómo van las cosas.
Y luego, estamos interesados en proyectos
donde creemos que podemos añad valor.
Bueno, tenemos experiencia relevante,
podemos llevarlo a la mesa.
Las conversaciones que tuvimos,
y la cosa que trabajé con los dos colegios
de la Ticket Biz,
fueron áreas donde tuvimos más experiencia que ellos,
por cualquier razón.
Y les dejé, básicamente,
para manejar el negocio,
y hablábamos de los problemas
de mes a mes,
y cuando identificamos algo
que pudimos añadir valor,
a través de nuestra red,
o a través de nuestra experiencia,
como un equipo.
Así que trabajamos bastante
a través del equipo activo.
Si hay alguien en el equipo que es mejor que mí,
en particular,
vamos a llevar esa persona a la mesa.
Aunque yo era una persona que manejaba el negocio,
fue un esfuerzo del equipo.
¿Es posible decir, específicamente,
cuando dices valor,
que es muy interesante,
que es más importante?
Por ejemplo,
este fue su primer éxito.
El proceso de éxito, por ejemplo.
Ellos trabajaban
en el mundo de la Banking Investment.
Ellos no tenían un broker M&A
en el proceso.
Y eran decisiones diferentes
para ser tomadas,
para comprar,
a quién,
en qué tipo de estructura.
Para hacer otra ronda,
construir el negocio por otro 2 o 3 años,
para que tengamos
alguna experiencia de eso,
que no lo hicieron.
Así que somos los únicos en los que advisamos,
en ese aspecto.
Pero hay algo donde podríamos llevar
esa experiencia que tuvimos.
Otro ejemplo es, por ejemplo,
algunos de los problemas
sobre el plan financiero.
Entonces, cuando estás operativo
en 47 mercados
y tienes 30
compañías en el grupo
y
estás construyendo esa estructura
y intentando crear plan financiero
para manejar el flow de dinero, etcétera,
de nuevo, es una experiencia que
hemos tenido, tal vez no en esa escala,
pero por cierto, hemos spentado
un día estando en la cifra
y compartiendo esa experiencia.
Pero creo que lo importante de la vc
es saber dónde puedes añadir valor
y saber dónde
la empresa es mucho mejor colocada
y ese valor podría decir
que no puedo ayudarte, pero sé alguien que puede.
Y llevar alguien a la mesa
que puede añad valor
y tener esa conversación directa con la empresa.
Entonces, de nuevo,
no tengo que ser el centro de atención
cuando hago el investimiento.
No tengo que estar en cada reunión,
no tengo que ser seguido y todo lo que digo.
Pero creo que
he visto algo relevante
y tengo esa experiencia.
Es lo que quiero mi voz hacer.
Ok, es muy interesante.
He tenido muchas aportaciones
en el plan de preguntas,
pero tienes que ser tan extensivo
cuando justificamos
una fracción de cosas,
pero muchas gracias por ser honestos
sobre estas cosas, es muy interesante.
Quiero mover un poco hacia
más la vc landscape.
Tienes parte del ecosistema
y también en las iniciativas.
También he estado aquí
por mucho tiempo, presentado.
Ahora estás lanzando
tu cuarto fundador.
Te dije que era más fácil
lanzar un fundador, pero eso también
es porque de tu propio acercamiento.
Pero, ¿cómo ha cambiado
la vc landscape desde que empezaste
en España y Europa?
¿Es más vibrante?
Hay más personas presentadas,
más activos vc, ¿no?
Creo que hay más activos vc
en España
hace 10 años, porque
hay muchas personas.
No podría decir
que el número de vc,
el número de vc en Europa
ha cambiado.
Estaba buscando algunas estadísticas
recientemente y
el número de vc activos vc
en Europa
ha bajado de tamaño.
¿Por qué piensas eso?
Porque
las emersiones
y las posibilidades de la fundación
son mucho más tiempos
al ambiente económico.
Creo que han habido
algunos desplazamientos
durante los 10 años.
La industria vc
es una que se refresca
cada 5 a 10 años.
Por ejemplo, si compras
Londres, que es probablemente
el mayor ecosistema en Europa
y veas a las personas activas
en 2006
y comparas esta lista
en 2017, podrás ver
muchas diferencias. No podrás ver
más jugadores, pero podrás ver
muchos diferentes jugadores.
Y algunos otros que no están alrededor
más.
Algunos estados no están alrededor
más.
España es diferente porque creo que
empezamos
en las primeras primeras
de la industria 10 años,
y ahora obviamente hemos visto
más jugadores
en las primeras primeras.
No creo que veamos mucho de ellos
en la fase de ciclo
activa para nosotros.
Creo que este es un número
reducido de jugadores, pero si
veas en las primeras primeras
creo que hay un número
significativo que puede desplazarlo
entre 300.000
y 1.000.000 euros
para empezar.
¿Qué es tu referencia?
¿Qué es tu referencia global?
¿Qué es tu referencia de vc?
¿Quién es el ejemplo
de un buen vc
aparte de tu?
Creo que hay algunos buenos ejemplos
o al menos
gente que sabemos
que estamos seguiendo en Europa
que les gusta lo que hacen.
Nos gustan grupos que tienen
una fortaleza
y que pueden agarrar
contra el viento
sus frases, porque creemos
que un buen viento
y un buen ejecución
es lo que
lo hará sucesivamente
y también sucesivamente
la próxima vez que salgas al viento.
Hay un número de jugadores
que creo que
se presentan hoy en Europa
que pueden agarrar
a una estrategia, en el UK,
en Alemania y algunos en Francia
que creo que son las personas
que dominarán el cine por los últimos 5 años.
¿Tienes algunos nombres?
No.
Creo que 0.9
son un buen ejemplo
de eso.
Ellos saben lo que están haciendo
y no quieren
agarrar los fundadores
solo por la causa
que entienden muy bien
lo que están haciendo
y lo ejecutan muy bien.
Creo que son un ejemplo
para un número de personas.
Hay dos o tres nuevos grupos
en Londres
que les gustan la noticia.
Es uno de la capital de pasión,
es otro.
Hay gente con la cual hemos investido
que lo hacen muy bien
y que tienen una manera similar.
Así que son las personas que están dirigidas.
¿Y ellos?
No, yo creo que los nombres
son muy interesantes cuando veas el sector
para elegir las mejores prácticas.
¿Qué hacen las personas
que tenemos que adaptar?
Porque los nombres están buscando
para otras cosas.
Esa pregunta es adecuada.
Si se establece un equipo H.R.
¿Tienes marketing para ellos?
No.
Porque creemos
que los nombres tienen la flexibilidad
de hacer eso.
Creo que funciona dependiendo de donde eres.
Si eres muy cedido
o más acelerador
es una buena ayuda.
Si eres de los que están en las empresas
con 50 o 100 empleados
la valor que puedes ofrecer
a esa empresa
para nosotros
no es una de nuestras costas.
Hay ciertas métricas
que te pueden ver,
si lo hacen bien
y no muchas funciones
que están creando bien
y que tienen estas prácticas.
¿Por qué?
No podrías seguir
No, yo creo que es algo que siempre consideras y que siempre consideras que los servicios podrían ofrecer
para hacer sentido, siendo una agencia de recrutamiento, es uno de los servicios que muchos fundadores ofrecen.
¿Qué piensas sobre eso? ¿Qué piensas sobre recrutamiento para los startups?
Porque todos tenemos una gran network, estamos hablando con muchas personas,
y ustedes saben muchas de las clases.
Sí, bueno, una cosa es hacerla como un tipo de, ok, yo puedo ayudarte aquí y otra cosa es decir,
yo voy a encontrar esa persona para vosotros. Y creo que hay dos diferentes cosas.
Uno es más que, ok, yo voy a ayudarte con mi network, y el otro es,
yo voy a sellar tus servicios como parte de mi investimiento.
Yo creo que el más vas a los nichos y el más vas a la fundación vertical,
el más dominas a un sector particular, el más fácil será ofrecer ese servicio.
Porque tu network se vuelve más enfocada, todo se vuelve más enfocada,
pero yo creo que es un paso away de decir que vas a hacer eso para la empresa.
¿Pero en la fundación de otro, ¿sería más específico en tu estrategia,
en cuanto a los partidos verticales?
Estamos mencionando el 0.9, por ejemplo, que es muy específico en SASS.
¿Es que a ambos de vosotros, ¿es la fuerza más específica de vosotros?
Creo que puede ser, la fuerza es más específica,
porque de las interacciones naturales en los partidos verticales.
Para nosotros, en ese momento de diseñar esa estrategia,
nos parece.
Sabemos de dónde llegamos,
no podemos, de repente, hacer algo totalmente diferente.
Tienes que tener una línea que continúa,
una especie de traje que va...
No podemos, de repente, decir que no hacemos nada como lo hicimos antes
y hacer algo totalmente diferente.
Sí, hay algunas similaridades,
pero creo que va a ser exactamente lo mismo,
porque tenemos que evolucionar.
Tenemos que evolucionar y ver lo que la marca está preguntando.
¿Puedes explicar un poco más con tu nueva fundación?
¿Estás mirando a algún sector particular o vertical?
Hay muchas cosas que no hicimos,
no hicimos hardware,
no hicimos servicios profesionales,
no hicimos e-commerce.
Hay muchas cosas que no hicimos,
dentro de lo que hicimos,
creo que miramos una cosa específica,
que es la eficiencia capital.
Nuestra nueva inversión para la nueva fundación
está todo alrededor de la eficiencia capital.
Esto significa crecer la cantidad correcta de dinero
en cada fase,
y asegurar que, a partir de este tiempo,
este dinero salga,
que son las opciones para la empresa.
No estamos, de repente, dentro de un canal
que es 10 miles de largo,
y no hay manera de salir.
Porque creo que estas son las empresas,
las escuelas, las escuelas.
Así que, con este principle básico,
si te preguntes, ¿cuáles son los partidos
o espacios en los que creemos que este principle
puede ser mejor aplicado?
Creo que el software enterprise,
con el model SAS,
tiene un sentido general,
puede ser, puede fit into this principle.
Creo que hay otro
consumer place
en el espacio digital,
que no son físicos,
pero digital,
que puede proveer
la viabilidad de un model de negocio,
como es lo que hablábamos antes,
con una cantidad moderada de capital,
sin romperlo en,
digamos, los piles de capital.
Esa es, creo, pero virtualmente para todos,
excepto muy pocos casos selectivos,
en los que no nos metemos,
en el principio, porque es muy difícil ver
Facebook en la serie C++,
así que no estamos haciendo esto.
Y, o sea, tenemos que parar por el punto aquí,
pero sería una sorpresa no preguntar a ti,
porque estás mirando a tantos diferentes sectores,
sería una sorpresa no preguntar a ti
qué piensas sobre el futuro,
en términos de lo que tipo de sectores
que están desarrollando y lo que tipo de startups
que van a desarrollar en los próximos años.
Aquí tenemos a algunos compañeros,
estamos experimentando el desarrollo
en el espacio B2B,
Factorial Keepers,
compañeros que están desarrollando orgánicamente muy rápido,
y eso es algo que hemos pido,
personalmente, pero ustedes,
¿es esto algo que estás viendo también?
¿O qué tipo de sectores o verticales
están desarrollando rápido en España?
Creo que nuestro experiencia,
nuestra observación es que
el ecosistema español
en términos de la calidad
de los proyectos entreprenariales
ha significado que ha mejorado
durante los últimos 10 años,
pero no es donde
creo que todos queremos ser,
creo que esto tiene que hacer
con la cantidad de dinero disponible
o con la cantidad de instituciones
que pueden poner en la industria,
esto tiene que hacer más con la cultura,
la educación y la escuela,
así que cambiando y mejorando el ecosistema
hace tiempo,
y el dinero no lo hace más rápido,
eso es nuestra observación.
Entonces el dinero es alrededor
de cuando la calidad de los proyectos
ocurra,
esto es un mercado libre
como siempre ha sido,
y el hecho de que te pones
artificialmente,
suddenly piles of new money
into the business
won't make the rate of success
higher.
It takes time,
I think that, as I said,
we have seen a lot of improvement,
but at the reasonable pace,
we should not get crazy
about what will happen in the next 5 years.
They have been successes
over the past 2 or 3 years,
successful exits,
which are good signs
that we are building something,
but this takes time.
So we still in Spain,
for example,
and I compare what I'm responsible
for the Spanish investments
in Spain inside my group.
So when I discuss and compare
with what my partners in London
or Boston are experiencing,
we are still lagging behind
significantly,
because we don't have a steady
pipeline of high quality projects
in Spain yet.
When I compare what I see
and what my challenges are
against what my partners
have or experience in their
respective ecosystems,
I see that they could invest
in high quality companies
at least once a month,
and we don't see that in Spain yet.
So it goes in waves,
in waves that have lag times
in between.
So we had a new fund,
we had a good 2016,
four companies,
and then in 2017
we said, wow,
there's another four coming? No.
So we've been dry for maybe
six, nine months.
So now it looks like it's
picking up again.
So the high quality deal flow
is not coming steady yet.
I think that by the time
series investors like active
ourselves see that,
that we have a steady,
regular deal flow
of high quality coming in,
then I think we will say that Spain has matured
as a technological system,
but at least from our observation
this hasn't happened yet.
What's your take
in terms of maturity,
but also in terms of verticals
doing well in Spain?
I think the verticals that tend to do well
in Spain are the ones that are easy to start.
Why? Because you have lots of people wanting
to start businesses, you have a very wide
bottom of the pyramid. So whether
there's SaaS businesses,
whether there's something consumer,
or app,
or something which with limited resources
he can get up and running.
I would agree with Jordi
that that pyramid becomes very narrow
quite quickly.
So the ones you see in Spain are ones
which are two, three,
four people can start with an idea
and doesn't require
that much, that many resources
at the beginning
are on the ground,
which covers a lot.
There are a lot of models
which fit that description,
but these sort of two,
three men projects
that then become five or six men,
then become ten,
keeping that dynamic going
as they grow,
and getting to be something that's
let's say VC investable,
which doesn't mean successful,
just means VC investable
I think that something that helps
or supports
the emergence of
new companies
with high potential
in a specific vertical,
is the sophistication of that particular
industry in Spain, for example.
So we are seeing,
we've invested and we are seeing
continue to see
offline retail technology companies
because it's, and we've invested
in two of them recently in Spain
because the retail industry
in Spain has a number of
international champions
in some selected subverticles
like fashion, for example,
that actually are very sophisticated
and that are
pulling local technology
to develop.
So, for example, we just invested
in a team next tail
in Madrid, that is
founded by people
that were responsible for logistics
at Inditex, globally.
And they've seen that
well, I heard the other day that
Inditex has 600
software developers in house
producing software for them.
Well, Inditex in a number of, say, sequences
in the value chain is world benchmark
so everyone is seeing at what
Inditex. So these people
that are world class professionals
are able to actually put together a company
and try to offer to
all the other Zara's in the world
is that Zara is doing.
So I think that
retail is one.
I think that tourism
is another one where we're seeing
some travel and leisure,
we're seeing some action and good companies
also because
I think that tourism represents
like 14-15% of our G&P
so
it's another industry where
companies born in Spain can excel.
I mean
just to end on something more
futuristic but artificial intelligence
is something that I mean
not many countries are
fans for doing artificial intelligence well
I mean it's a very out there theme
but I heard in an interview
that more and more stars are getting asked by VCs
what is your artificial intelligence
strategy?
Is this a very weird question
to ask as a VC or are you thinking about
these things yourself? I'm curious.
Yeah, I mean I think
artificial intelligence
is a useful tool
for some businesses
it's a bit like big data
no, big data was the thing to talk about
maybe 2 years ago, everybody talks about big data
and how you're going to sell big data
and analyse it
and I think at the moment it's chatbot
so everybody needs a chatbot in order to have a good company
and if you look behind that
as to what it actually does
what's the added value?
Why is this going to help your business?
AI
has a role to play in some businesses
as do chatbots
but chatbot doesn't have to be sophisticated
or not
so I think
as a question to ask any entrepreneur
it's a bit weird
from my point of view
if they talk about it
for me it's about understanding what does that mean
they're just throwing in catch words
or catch phrases to see
okay well I have to talk about chatbots
AI
big data
let's just have a conversation
about what the business is going to be doing
in a couple of years
do you think the same?
yeah we don't have an AI strategy
I think that this should be
embedded in whatever a company does
using in the wise
the data that is available
and trying to produce better products for your customers
no I have to say
we're looking forward to see
what kind of companies you discover
and support and back in the next years
thank you both Blair
and Georgie for coming
ahhh, thank you