And do you want the camera to be adjusted?
Oh, yeah, we've got a little bit too much headroom.
Do you mind?
That's good, yeah.
And we're live, ladies and gentlemen.
Welcome to the Wan Show.
Luke is cavorting about in Asia,
so he couldn't join us, but that's okay.
We have budget Luke.
Sorry, is it discount?
It's discount Luke, sorry.
Cavort, jump or dance around excitedly.
I hope he's cavorting.
Yeah, oh, I'm pretty sure he's cavorting.
He loves hanging out over there.
I'm pretty sure that's the only reason
that he wanted to go to Computex.
Luke, if you're watching, I'm on to you.
It's the only time he cavorts.
Yes, the only time he cavorts.
I rarely cavort, but when I do, it's in Asia.
He actually can't really cavort over there
because a lot of the time the ceilings are too low.
Oh, I thought you were gonna say
he would like squish people.
Yeah, that's true.
He'll step on them like little aunts.
Yeah, he really does stand out there.
Get back, I'm cavorting.
In a very real way.
So yeah, we've got a really great show for you guys today,
and I'd love to tell you about it
except my laptop is updating.
So maybe James can tell us
what some of the great topics we have are.
We're gonna talk about our favorite things
from WWDC.
I actually do have some favorite things from WWDC.
Like not everything was bad.
Okay, no spoilers though.
Okay.
And remember when YouTube was down last weekend?
Remember when the land show
was supposed to go up last weekend?
There's lots of things.
Conspiracy.
And AMD and Samsung partner up
for ultra low power graphics in possibly mobile phones.
All that and more.
At 11.
News at 11.
Roll the intro.
This is great.
I just like the timing.
Someone messages, how rich is Linus in the chat?
And someone super chats 99 cents.
Not so richly doesn't appreciate this.
It's actually less than 99 cents
because YouTube takes a cut of that.
Oh, they take a cut of super chats?
Yeah, of course.
Of course they do.
How much?
It's not like 30% or something.
Seven?
I don't know, I think it's more than that.
Yeah, I actually don't know.
Super chats, while we definitely appreciate
people's generosity are not really a needle mover for us.
And part of it is that YouTube does take
a significant portion of it.
So super chat, YouTube portion.
Sorry, I have to look this up
cause I actually don't know.
How much money does YouTube take from super chats?
This is an article on stream geeks
and I should probably be looking it up on my laptop
now that it's not updating anymore.
And then I could actually share this with you.
How much?
I thought we were directing all the super chats
to Brandon now.
From super, no, no, that was just that one time.
Hey Brandon, you got your free lunch, right?
Yeah.
Okay, good, just checking.
Those super chats move the needle for you?
Guys, please continue super chats, please.
He got a free lunch out of it.
So that's pretty good, I guess.
Nice.
All right, how much money does YouTube take
from super chats?
Wow, this is a really long article
for just like-
Search on dollar sign or search on percent.
Control F.
You have seen our 100% YouTube live super chat,
blah, blah, blah.
Okay, when I clicked the estimated revenue
in YouTube's analytics, it was roughly 30% less
than the total super chat amount.
So they take a 30% cut of super chats through YouTube.
That's exorbitant.
Well, yes and no.
It's exorbitant.
Hold on a second, yes and no.
It's not quite that simple because for one thing,
Google, while they do use their own payment processor,
which saves them a lot,
if they were using a third-party payment processor,
you could be looking at as much as 30 cents or more
per transaction plus a percentage of the transaction.
So even if I was just using Stripe or Braintree
to take a dollar from you over the internet,
thank you very much,
I would still be giving 30% of that,
over 30% of that to my payment processor.
This is something that we've learned the hard way
as we've developed Floatplane.
Luke's not here,
so we're not gonna talk about Floatplane at 10 today,
but my apologies to the Floatplane fans out there.
Only blockchain can save us.
Save us, blockchain.
Yeah, but the transactions aren't even free with crypto.
Like some cryptocurrencies have very high transaction fees,
especially if you want the transaction to go through
in a reasonable amount of time.
Yes, I know it depends,
but some of the more commonly used ones
have extraordinarily high transaction fees.
Whatever, man.
It's the future.
All right.
It's hard to have a real conversation,
but then I mean, you don't cost as much as Luke,
so discount conversation.
Okay, no one wants to have
a blockchain conversation right now.
I just wanted to make the joke and leave it at that.
Okay, that's fair.
You know, Bitcoin's up what, like 60% this year though?
Last I checked, it was, is it like 10 grand?
I don't know.
Honestly, I'm like-
See, now we're having a blockchain conversation.
I'm out.
It's eight grand.
It's 8,000 US dollars.
So I'm out.
I don't care anymore,
so I'm actually trying not to pay too close attention to it.
I'm just like, you know what, forget it.
You guys enjoy your crypto thing.
Call me when it's actually manageable
to integrate as a payment system.
Call me when the Canadian banks and the Canadian government
have all decided on a way to deposit
and withdraw this stuff
and not have everything disappear mysteriously
in a weird town in India
where people are known for going to fake their own deaths.
You heard about that, right?
That specific one, no.
So what's the crypto exchange that went down?
The one that was like based out of here.
Oh, what was that called?
I don't know.
They all have the same name.
Out of business, owner died.
Hold on, what was it?
Quadriga, yeah, Quadriga.
So it's a 30-year-old CEO and co-founder died
of complications arising from Crohn's disease
while traveling in India,
supposedly except the circumstances of his death.
Or spurious.
Yeah.
Did that ever come to a conclusion?
I don't believe it has at this point,
but I haven't been paying really close attention to it
because like I said, I'm out.
I hope he's alive.
I really do.
I could...
Like over a hundred million dollars of assets.
Like, are you saying you've never fantasized
about faking your own death?
It's just such a funny thing to think about.
It's illegal as far as I know, isn't it?
I think it is.
Yeah, I mean, you know, the thing is that, you know,
most of the people who do it, you know,
never get prosecuted because they're actually dead.
I love how there's like a Mecca for this.
Like, if you want to fake your death, come here.
How can you have a good fake?
If everyone knows, oh, he died in that town.
Well, no one really dies there.
Like their whole newspapers obituaries, like fake news.
Yeah, so I don't know.
Like there's a place there.
I forget what the town is called or like the area is called,
but they're really well known for document forgeries,
including things like birth certificates
and death certificates.
And that happened to be,
and this could be a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory.
In fact, YouTube chat is probably blowing up,
being like, I personally, oh wow, it is blowing up.
Like I personally saw the dead body or whatever,
like good for you.
So yeah, like I said, it's possible.
This is all nonsense.
It's a hub for makeup artists.
But it's possible.
Someone says not illegal.
You have the right to disappear.
Yeah, you can disappear, but you can't,
you can't forge a death certificate
because that is a legal document.
So that would be about like forging a land deed.
Like you can't do that.
And because there are such large incentives for some people
for faking their own death,
there's definitely, definitely laws that make it
so you can't do that.
Faking your death is sometimes called pseudo side.
Pseudo side.
That is great.
I like that.
That's cute.
That's clever.
All right.
Wow.
Well, don't know if it's illegal or not yet,
but how about Apple stuff?
How about it?
How about it?
All right, well, why don't we,
why don't we bring up the WWDC news
and kind of talk through some of our favorite things.
The WANDOC, why would I go to the WANDOC?
Because there's links therein.
I know, but the people who work on that,
they just don't do a very good job.
It's funny because he's the one who works on the WANDOC.
All right, all right, all right, all right.
So there's like nothing in here.
I said, follow the links.
The links?
I didn't build this out
because you already made videos about this.
You know this, we all know this stuff.
All right.
So should we start with the Mac Pro?
Now I've kind of said everything that I want to say
about the Mac Pro.
They're all actually,
I do have a couple of small corrections
from the video that I made earlier this week.
So I had speculated
that the very low end system configurations
that only have four sticks of memory
might not support six channel memory.
But right after the Mac Pro announcement, we missed it.
Intel announced their 3000 series Xeon W lineup
that was going to be the processors in the Mac Pro.
And it does go all the way down to eight cores.
And Apple apparently confirmed
that no, there will only be one motherboard.
So they're just shipping a six channel motherboard,
six channel CPU,
and they're just putting four sticks of memory in it
because six grand for an eight core processor
makes a ton of sense.
Now from like an optimization standpoint,
what does that mean?
It means that you're getting effectively 66%
of the memory bandwidth that you otherwise would.
Now with that said,
you've only got a piddly eight core processor.
So who cares, I guess,
because it's not like a 28 core
where you could legitimately have a workload
you're running on it
that needs all of that memory bandwidth.
Like you just don't have the compute to justify it anyway.
But I also just don't think that an eight core configuration
of this machine should exist.
It doesn't make sense.
Like so much of the price of this thing
is making up for the R&D of the case design,
it seems to me,
that you're just not getting any value on the low end.
On the low end,
I think there's people already defending it,
but I don't understand these people
because on the low end,
you should just be buying a latest gen iMac.
It has an eight core processor.
ECC memory,
it's a really interesting feature
because I even went as far.
So we published a very negative review
of Intel's previous Xeon W lineup,
the one that was based on their LGA 2066 platform.
And what Anthony and I concluded,
and I ultimately said in the video,
was these things are a rip,
buy an ATDT processor
because the only differentiating factor
is that they support ECC memory,
which if you really needed it,
well, AMD supports ECC up and down their entire lineup,
all the way from Threadripper down to Ryzen 3.
So if you absolutely must have that,
there might be an AMD option for you,
go check that out.
And you lose overclocking support,
which depending on your workload,
might actually make sense
because you're using their C620 whatever chip set
instead of their X299 chip set,
which has overclocking support built into it.
So we ultimately concluded
that you were paying anywhere from 500 and over dollars
for a trade-off in features
that may or may not have any value to you.
And Intel was upset about my conclusion
because they said, well, actually,
Xeon W is good for workstations.
And I went, why is it good?
And they said, well, because it's made for workstations.
And I said, well, what makes it made
for workstations exactly?
And they said, well, it has ECC support.
And I said, well, that's nice.
And what does that do for me?
Because here's the thing,
the perception for a lot of years
was that Intel Xeon processors were somehow better
than their consumer equivalents.
And there have been times when they actually were,
but over time, the R&D cost to make a new CPU design
has become such an enormous part of the cost of a processor
that by the time you've done all that R&D,
it's actually cheaper to just make the same CPU
and put it under two different brands
with some features turned on or turned off.
And a feature that you would turn off
would never be stability.
Like it is not, think about it.
It is not in Intel's interest
for their core series processors
to crash once every 422 hours, to what end?
So Intel can talk about how Xeon W is really stable.
But if you ask, well, is Core i9 not stable?
They just kind of, yeah, it's stable.
And it is.
So what I asked them to do was, okay, guys,
let's talk about ECC.
I wanna do a video where you guys take me
to like Sandia National Lab or something
and we simulate a solar event.
We flip a bit.
We actually flip a bit on a memory chip
and show that this system recovered from it
and this one didn't.
And they were like, we can't do that.
Like they physically can't do that?
They don't have the instruments to do that?
They wouldn't clarify.
Okay.
They were just like, we can't do that.
And so I said, well then my conclusion
about your processor, given that there is no meaningful demo
I also, before we got as far as like going
to a laboratory and like doing this,
I asked, well, give me a demo.
Give me something I could do on these two machines
that shows that this one is more stable than this one.
And they were like, we don't have any workload like that.
I kind of went, okay, thanks guys.
Like the thing you gotta understand is that ECC
does do something in the event of an accidental bit flip
it is supposed to recover from it.
The thing is that each subsequent generation of DDR
technology has also added more resiliency
against accidental errors.
So I'm not saying it doesn't have a value today.
I'm just saying that it's not a value that even Intel
was able to design a test for me to be able to demonstrate.
So it's the people I talked to there.
If anyone from Intel is watching and knows a way
that we can do this, yo, HMU as the kids say, right?
I'm almost as old as you now, man.
Yeah, well, fair enough.
Yeah, and you're going to be a, wait,
is that public knowledge or no?
Oh, okay, and he's going to be a dad too.
He's going to be the second dad at Linus Media Group.
I was going to say second parent, but my wife works here.
She's also a parent.
That's true.
She's very obvious.
She's a parent.
Oh, that was great.
Oh, let me, I'm going to let that wash over me for a second.
Yeah, so it's like a feature that is over serving
most people and being disrupted by the same company's
other features.
Yes.
Anyway, I forget where I was going with this.
Right, you should just buy an iMac
because it's a faster, even thermal throttling.
I think it's still faster than this Xeon W
because whatever or something.
And then that even ignores the iMac Pro,
which starts at five grand.
And I think, what does its core count start at?
I feel like we need to go like, look at that now.
iMac Pro, Apple USA.
I don't think this is going to take me to the US site.
No, it's not.
Well, whatever.
We'll just do it manually.
Thank you very much for that.
You want the prices?
I love how this stuff is always-
You don't need the prices right now.
No, I do need the prices because the Mac Pro
is going to start at six grand.
So if we have a look at where the iMac Pro starts,
because remember, these are not the same processors.
They fit in an entirely different socket.
But from a performance standpoint,
I don't believe Intel has changed anything.
Like clock speed for clock speed, core for core,
they should be quite similar.
So let's go ahead and have a peekaboo
at what we get for this.
So we get a 3.2 gigahertz Xeon W that turbos to 4.2.
And what do we get with the Mac Pro?
We get a 3.5 that turbos to 4.0.
So let's configure it.
We've got a grand to spend
because they both come with 32 gigs of RAM
in the base configuration.
And no, this one has a one terabyte SST out of the box.
Of course it does.
Right, so we can add another two freaking cores.
And I'm not saying the iMac Pro is a perfect machine.
I'm just saying it also happens to include a display.
With a stand.
And it'll outperform the base model Mac Pro on paper.
We will have to actually test that.
We might have to crack open our iMac Pro again.
Oh, stop cracking it.
Put like different processors.
Stop cracking it, please.
Oh, I know, I know.
And just, oh man, I think the graphics card
is the most embarrassing thing
about this stock configuration.
Really, a 580X.
Let's fire up Le Newegg.com.
Now I know it's a Radeon Pro or whatever,
but you guys gotta understand.
That is a, that is a, no.
That is just a driver switch that AMD flips.
It is the same bloody card.
580X, hold on a second.
You're not typing.
Yeah, I'm working on it.
I'm working on it.
So what does a 580X cost these days?
Here's an MSI Armor, whatever, $200.
Like we're talking a $200 graphics card
in a system that costs six grand.
So basically the message that Apple is sending
with this base configuration is buy this
if you're the kind of like ego,
image is everything moron
that wants to have a Mac Pro as a status symbol
but actually doesn't care at all
about what's under the hood of it.
At all.
Yeah.
That's the message.
It's like being like, oh, I need a Mercedes
to impress the ladies.
And everyone else is like, yeah, it's the cheapest one.
Yes.
But as long as the ladies don't know that,
I guess you're good.
Yeah, then you're good.
So as long as you're after-
It's still great cheese.
Ladies who aren't into cars.
What else did I want to say about the Mac Pro?
Right, okay.
So we know it's all the same socket.
So no, you don't get a different motherboard.
It's just stupid.
Now I've had people say,
well, what if you want to upgrade in the future?
Well, then you should use your current machine for now
and you should upgrade when you order
because upgrading computers is very rarely a good idea.
Now I'm not saying you should get
the most loaded out memory configuration.
In fact, there's a good chance that companies like OWC
or iFixit are gonna have kits that you can use
to upgrade that stuff for much cheaper.
I'm just saying that you're basically buying a processor
that you then are just gonna put in a bin
and trust me, no one else is gonna want it
because the kind of motherboard that's gonna fit
an LGA 3647 Xeon W is gonna cost $500, $600.
Nobody buys a board like that
and puts a cheapo eight core processor in it.
That's stupid.
It's an imbalanced machine.
That's my point.
It's six grand.
It's got a throwaway processor,
a throwaway graphics card and memory that honestly,
let's see, it's 32 gigs, so what is that?
Is that eight gig sticks?
So that limits your total upgradeability as well
because it's only got 12 memory slots.
So 32 times three is what?
Like 96, 96 gigs of RAM.
Like that's probably lots
but you're better off getting 16 gig sticks
because that doubles the overall expansion.
Like if upgradeability is what you've got in mind,
don't buy parts that you have to throw away
and that no one will ultimately want.
So why do you think Apple makes this SKU?
They make this SKU for the ego people.
Do you think it's their most profitable build out?
No.
No, I think they're absolutely-
But it's just because people will buy it?
I think that they are trying to maintain
not just a profit margin,
but also a GP dollars profitability to this product
because-
What do you mean by GP dollars?
Gross profit dollars.
Okay, so they just wanna have coverage
as wide a swath of the market as possible.
Yeah, so they wanna hit the lowest price point
they can while still making
what they would have expected to make
regardless of which SKU they sell
on the core components that they're selling
which are ultimately the case.
A license for Mac OS,
which is ultimately tied to the main board,
sorry, the logic board.
But if that's the case,
then this and if this product is overlapping
with performance wise with the other products
as you just showed us,
then it's cannibalizing those other products.
To me, that doesn't make sense
unless it's the case that at Apple,
those teams are kind of segregated
and each team is responsible
for getting as much gross profit
on its product line
and they're competing teams.
I doubt it works that way.
I think Apple is a little bit smarter
and a little bit more organized than that.
I suspect that the only reason
they wouldn't care about this
cannibalizing their other products
is that it's more profitable or as profitable.
So ultimately it doesn't matter what you buy.
And I would suspect based on the loadout
of something like an iMac Pro,
I suspect that this is a higher margin product.
Even if they are assembling it in the US
as I think they had committed to doing,
don't quote me on that though.
Okay.
So yeah, they just have a base amount of GP dollars
that they need to make
in order to make this product make sense
for their shareholders.
And well, screw you.
You get to buy a config that doesn't make any sense
because remember too,
imagine this,
imagine if it didn't start at 6,000.
Okay.
Imagine if it started at 12, 13,000.
Okay.
People would be outraged about that too.
And instead of it just being nerds like me
that are gonna break down the spec
and go, well, this is imbalanced.
This doesn't make sense.
You know, you've effectively bought, you know,
that X-Forma case that we showed,
the like $1,300 case.
And you know, put an entry-level CPU and graphics card in it
like you're an idiot.
You know, the people who are mad right now
are the giant nerds.
Whereas if they announced a product
that started at $13,000,
everyone would be mad.
Right.
Their like common customer would feel alienated.
That's right.
Yeah, okay.
Now it seems attainable,
even though what you're buying is essentially stuff
to throw away and upgrade later
if you are intending to do any serious work with it.
Okay.
How about the monitor though?
Yeah, we can talk about the monitor.
So.
I can't wait to see it.
It's gonna be a great monitor.
Let's say that.
It's gonna be a great monitor.
Oh, the monitor I'm pretty excited about actually.
Now Brandon was actually telling me about
a really interesting post that someone created
where their main problem with the monitor
was not necessarily its hardware capabilities,
but whether or not Apple was going to adhere
to any of the existing standards for HDR.
Because if Apple comes in and says,
okay, we're competing with the Flanders of the world.
You know, we're talking 30,000 plus dollar displays.
So this person's problem with it at that point
was it doesn't have enough local dimming zones.
It's gonna have bloom.
It's just, it's simply not suitable.
Versus if Apple was coming in and they wanted to compete
with sort of the more average creation monitors.
They were saying that, well, Apple needs to just be aware of
and adhere to standards like HDR 10 that already exists
instead of, you know, forging their own path with this.
What did they call it?
XDR, extreme dynamic range or something like that.
I can't remember exactly what their wording was for it.
Now, I think that with like Apple isn't perfect,
but they tend to be good at designing
an end-to-end workflow.
What I suspect is that right around the time
this Mac Pro launches,
they're gonna have some new workflow tools
within Final Cut, within macOS
that are going to make working with HDR content easier.
And I think that they're going to have to acknowledge
that there are standards like HLG, HDR 10,
Dolby Vision that already exist
and that they have to make their tools work for.
I am not as pessimistic as that person was,
but I also am not as well versed in it as they are.
So I'm gonna be really interested to see how this goes
and how long this display is even that interesting for.
OLED only has to get a little bit brighter to make more sense
because remember, it's high dynamic range,
not necessarily how many nits
you can pump through a display.
So OLED only has to get a little bit brighter
before for myself, I'd rather be editing,
I'd rather be creating on something that has no bloom.
And 576 zones, 532.
I can't remember how many it was, but...
On a 32 inch.
Yeah, that's a lot of zones on a 32 inch,
but it's sure as heck not an emissive display technology.
We actually, we checked out a display with...
512.
512 zones just yesterday.
On a 35 inch.
On a 35 inch.
And so it's not quite an apples to apples comparison,
but would you say based on what you saw
that Apple's 500 to 600 class display
on a 32 inch is going to be sufficient
for real color accurate, contrast accurate color work?
No, it depends on the aggressiveness
because on the display that you and I looked at,
which was the PG35B, sometimes known as BQ,
it has such aggressive local dimming
that there was always bloom and it was,
you could really see when you move the cursor
from one little one inch, one inch zone to another.
You missed when we were playing Tomb Raider, didn't you?
I played it myself earlier, but I wasn't there.
I wasn't there with you.
Did you play any scenes with really high contrast?
A little bit.
Okay.
I didn't notice any problems when I was gaming.
Okay, because I was really impressed
with how well it did when gaming.
It was only when...
On the desktop, it sucked.
I think sucked is probably about the right word.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All I'm saying is like, even with that many zones,
500 zones in that size, there's still like...
They were about an inch by an inch.
There's still an inch by an inch.
That's still pretty big.
It's big.
Yeah, and Apple's is gonna be smaller,
but not that much smaller.
Not that much smaller.
No, like maybe 0.8 of an inch or 0.85 of an inch.
10% smaller or something like that.
Yeah, so, because remember too,
we're talking about a 35 inch display,
but it's a 35 inch 21 by nine display.
That is not, in terms of actual display surface area,
that's not as much bigger as it sounds
compared to a 32 inch.
Is it 16 by nine?
Nine or 10.
I actually don't remember.
But you even see bloom on OLEDs.
I think it just has to do
with the perception of the eye though.
That's true.
That's true.
You do see some bloom on OLEDs,
but like you said, I think part of it is just...
The eye's contrast capabilities.
Yep.
And that's actually another thing.
That's another reason why I do question
how much brighter OLED really has to get
for the HDR experience to be really, really good on it,
because we're already at the point now
where the brightest whites on an OLED,
right next to the blackest blacks,
my eye has a hard time seeing that line.
Yeah.
So if we want something like a candle burning
in the middle of the dark room,
if we want it to bleed out,
if that's the filmmaker's desired effect,
I mean, are we that far off?
I just don't know how much more work
is gonna be put into OLED,
because it seems like micro-LED is kind of looming
in the three to five year horizon now,
and Apple's one of the companies doing it,
at least for smaller.
They're investing really heavily in it,
as far as the public is aware anyway.
Yeah.
I don't know how big of displays
they're planning on making with it though.
It's supposed to be pretty scalable though, right?
That's one of the selling points of micro-LED, I believe,
is that it's kind of like,
you can just scale it up or down.
Now, this was a really fun conversation
that I actually had with some of the folks at Nvidia,
and I don't believe, yeah, no,
there's nothing about this that would have been
off the record or ND8 or anything like that,
but I was, and pardon my ignorance,
every once in a while I get something completely wrong.
So I was under the impression
that when we talk about micro-LED technology,
you know what, we really need to do our sponsor spots,
because we are running out of time
on the WAN Show here today.
So don't let, let me get into that.
What a cliffhanger.
Sorry guys, I'm not doing this to you,
just to like be a jerk or anything.
Turn blue here.
Okay.
Holding my breath, waiting for you.
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Did we just lose power?
What?
They turned us off over here.
Hello?
Are we still streaming?
I think we're still streaming.
Now you guys can't see,
but Linus is trying to kiss me right now.
No, I think it's the Casa module, Brandon.
Lights are turning on in the bedroom right now.
Lights are on behind me.
Camera's on now.
I kind of like this dark mode.
Yeah, sorry.
These lights take a little bit to turn back on, guys.
Anyway.
Tell me a freaky story.
Move on to our next one.
They're happy to a friend of a friend of yours.
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They have the best ads.
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Yeah, and they're available in Canada
because one of our people used it.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Oh, that's cool.
Very cool.
All right, so what was I talking about?
Dang it, I always do this.
You're about to tell me the thing about micro-led.
Okay, so every once in a while,
I get something completely wrong,
and micro-led is one of them.
Okay.
So my first exposure to micro-led in the real world
was Sony's, ah, it burns!
That's pretty hot.
That's pretty hot.
Is there a reason we don't just turn on the normal ones?
If they're turning on, they just take-
Oh, are you sure?
I don't know if they're turning on.
I don't know if they take 10 minutes.
We'd see them glowing by now.
I don't think they're on.
I'm happy with this.
It looks cool.
Yeah, all right.
So my first exposure to micro-led was-
Although I'm not the one looking in the light.
Was with the Sony Cletus display.
Yep.
And have you heard of the Cletus?
Yeah, yeah, it was at CES.
Oh, did you see it?
I wasn't there that year.
But they had it the next year, didn't they?
Okay, so the Cletus display is really trippy
because the way that it's like a modular display,
and we've seen technologies like this before,
but it's a unique one because it's got these panels
that are about this big,
and then you just assemble them together
into whatever size and resolution display you want.
Now that's not unique.
What's unique is that the Cletus display
uses an emissive display technology like OLED,
except it's not OLEDs, it's micro-leds.
Okay, so they've got these tiny, tiny micro-leds,
red, green, and blue,
and they emit directly from the display.
So there's no backlight or anything like that.
But the way that they achieve near perfect blacks
on a Cletus display is that,
I forget what the exact number is,
but it's over-
It's like made of black dots.
No, no, no, it's not-
Isn't there like a bunch of black dots
that you can see if you go really close to it?
No.
It's like an illusion when you back up?
It's a little bit different than that.
So they actually allowed me to go up to it.
Here, I'm just going to-
Yeah, I remember everyone was tense.
They're like, no, don't go that close.
Okay, ultimate picture, blah, blah, blah.
Where is it?
Okay.
Ah, where's the-
Here we go.
Okay, right.
So the reason they can get nearly perfect blacks out of it
is that 99% of the Cletus display doesn't emit light.
Weird.
It's just, it's actually black.
So you're looking at this giant display
made that emits light, they're micro LEDs,
they're super bright, but they're actually tiny.
They're micro LEDs.
And all of the area around them is just black.
Are they clustered or are they spread out
with lots of black in between?
They look like this.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, so you've got a red, green, and a,
it's either a blue or a yellow.
I actually don't remember,
but you've got three sub pixels for each pixel
and the vast majority of the display is actually black.
But because of the way that light spreads from a source,
you actually have to get about 18 inches from the screen
in order for, and it's weird,
your eyes like go weird as you move through the threshold.
Kind of click in.
And then all of a sudden you go from seeing the entire image
which has no perceivable gaps in it
to seeing just these dots
and they don't look like anything.
They just look-
That's so trippy.
It's so weird.
Okay, so I thought that micro led displays
were specifically this technology.
Okay.
I didn't ever stop and think about that a micro LED
is just a small LED
and you could do anything you wanted with it.
I didn't think about that there were other ways
that people were planning to use micro LEDs.
Okay.
So I was talking to Nvidia
because they were talking about these displays
that they've created with over 500 local dimming zones.
And they were talking about like, yeah, you know,
we see a clear path forward.
Cause I'd love to see-
Which Nvidia displays have over 500 dimming zones?
Well, the one that we just checked out for one.
That's not Nvidia.
Well, okay.
That was Asus.
Are you talking about the VFGDs?
I'm talking about the Nvidia driver module
and the full array backlight control module.
That's Nvidia that creates that, yeah.
So, okay.
That's actually an important point to clarify.
So they were talking about how, you know,
going from 384 zones to over 500 zones
to using mini LEDs to micro LEDs.
They see this very clear technology progression.
Whereas like I love an OLED G-Sync display.
And I was like, hey, you guys working on that?
And they're kind of like, you know, they're vague, right?
They're evasive.
We're working on everything.
You know, what are we?
We're a technology company.
What are we not working?
Like they basically, it was a total non-answer.
And when I drilled down where I ultimately,
like they wouldn't answer any questions about it.
But what I ultimately realized is that
because OLED is an emissive display
with completely different characteristics
in terms of color mixing at different brightnesses,
you know, making them color accurate.
The way that the pixels switch,
or rather they don't take a long time to switch.
Like Nvidia would have to completely reinvent
the G-Sync module to run an OLED display.
So when they were talking about this clear path forward
to mini LED and micro LED,
I totally misunderstood that they were talking about
something like a Cletus display.
An emissive display using micro LEDs.
What they were actually talking about
was using micro LEDs to have a much greater degree
of granularity in a full array backlight.
I see.
Okay, so.
So what they're looking for as a business then is,
is evolution rather than revolution.
It's like, we have this tried and tested stuff.
We just need to iterate to make it, you know,
just do this, but do it harder.
So what,
Do it smaller, miniaturize it.
So what I ultimately came away with
was that full array backlighting on LCD displays
is not going anywhere.
And where we're probably headed is many, many,
many more zones.
Maybe where we get to the point where each zone
is a mini LED or a micro LED.
So that the blooming becomes much less.
I don't remember what my point was in all of this anymore.
I think we were just talking about
micro led coming out eventually and Apple investing in it.
Yes, so micro led coming out eventually.
Yes, but maybe not in the form that you might think
because a micro led display could be an emissive display
or it could just be really, really small LEDs, micro LEDs
behind a regular old LCD panel.
So yes, micro led displays are coming.
We just don't know exactly what form they'll take.
And after that meeting with Nvidia,
I had a better understanding.
It doesn't make sense to keep them as transmissive displays
because when you have that many of them,
well, it depends how many you have.
If they're at almost the level of being like
for each pixel is a zone,
then the beauty of it is that you turn it off
and you get the black levels of OLED.
Yes.
Right, and the pixel response times
because the reason that LCDs
have higher pixel response times than OLED
is that it actually takes time for the liquid crystal
to twist, that takes time and to untwist.
And that's also related to why it's not as black
because even when it's fully twisted,
some light's still gonna get through.
So why would you give up on all those awesome benefits?
Because you've invested the last 25 years in LCD.
Then get disrupted.
And you know how they work.
Get disrupted.
But that's it because you know how they work
because a lot of the time you can build,
even using an inferior technology,
you can build a better display
when you understand the technology at play better.
And so yes, get disrupted,
but the flip side of that is Apple's display
is already sort of groundbreaking
in terms of its contrast and peak brightness and all that.
The thing is $6,000.
So-
But so is a BFGD.
What's the emissive one gonna be?
That's exactly my point.
How disruptive is that technology gonna be
if it costs 50 grand or whatever?
You know what I mean?
Well, they should eventually, it depends.
They could end up in phones.
It'd be great in your watch.
Yes.
And I wonder if LG, I'm sure LG is also investing in it.
It's just kind of interesting
because they also are going so hard into OLED,
but they don't wanna be caught flat footed either, right?
No one wants to be caught flat footed.
I think LG is still pretty heavily invested in OLED.
Only time will tell.
So we promised in the video thumbnail
that we were gonna talk about not just the monitor,
but also the monitor stand.
What monitor stand?
The one for the-
The one it doesn't come with?
Yeah, the one it doesn't come with.
So I guess the argument here is
that like the very expensive, very, very expensive monitors
that you referenced earlier,
those don't come with stands either.
And it's just not, like in that category,
it's not industry standard to have a stand.
Hey, Brandon, can you bring me something
that's really stupidly overpriced?
Like a handle or something.
You know what I'm talking about, right?
Yeah, okay.
Brandon's gonna find something for us.
Maybe something related to a red, for sure.
Okay, so, can I play devil's advocate for a moment here?
Please.
I love Satan.
Okay, so there's a,
you got something for me?
I have two things.
Okay, yeah, that, yeah, what else you got?
How much is this?
1295 for two.
This is 1295 for two?
Okay, wonderful.
How much is this?
$2,950.
Is that still how much it costs?
Yeah.
US or Canadian?
US.
Okay.
Three grand US.
All right.
Three grand.
Okay, so we've got a couple things here.
Okay, so when I buy a product,
my understanding is that it should come
with pretty much everything that it needs to function.
Right?
Okay.
Okay, that's a very consumer centric point of view.
Now, I would say that if I were to graph out the,
now that I have experience in the professional world,
if I were to graph out my expectation
of like a cost versus included accessories curve, okay?
I would say as the cost approaches zero,
your included accessories go down.
You expect a more bare bones experience.
So the cost approaches zero.
As the cost of my original purchase approaches zero.
So if I buy the cheapest phone on the market,
I'm not that surprised it doesn't come with some headphones.
Okay.
Right?
Okay.
Then as I step up in cost,
I expect my experience to be more and more complete.
And when you buy something like a Galaxy S10,
you know, it's got your.
UPS on here.
Yeah, we do.
Theoretically we're live, but the camera's dead.
Can you guys make sure the camera
is gonna turn back on?
Oh yeah, camera's on.
Okay.
We just, I'm sorry guys.
We just had, we just had a short blackout.
It's called a brown out.
No, no, it's called a brown out
when it doesn't actually count.
Oh, when it just goes vroom.
Yeah.
A short blackout.
Yeah.
Wow.
We have to have a good name for that.
Hey guys.
A mini blackout.
Sorry, what was I talking about?
You were describing an inverted parabola.
Okay, yeah.
So basically, you know, I expect to get my,
you know, my headphones and they'll run bundles and stuff.
So maybe it comes with a micro SD card for expansion
and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And a fast charger, a fast charger.
You know, like accessory bundles.
Well, unless it's an iPhone.
Yeah.
And then as I spend more.
That starts going down again.
And I get into professional grade
rather than consumer grade gear,
the manufacturer's expectation
is that if you only have a little bit to spend,
you expect very little.
If you have a moderate amount of money to spend,
you expect a lot.
And if you have a lot of money to spend,
you probably don't care about the crap
you were gonna include anyway.
And you're willing to pay more
for a premium perfect option.
So I think there's a certain level of F you,
you've got the money anyway, pay more that goes on
when it comes to professional level products.
I don't think they would say that.
I think they would say that.
Well, they wouldn't say it.
Because every, because each piece is ostensibly
so highly engineered and high quality and so expensive.
You don't want. And low volume.
You don't want to be paying for things you don't need.
That would be the way they would say it.
They wouldn't say F you, but it's just implied.
But if that were really the case,
if they're really being altruistic,
then there wouldn't be a $200 VESA adapter.
It would just be standard.
You could just clip it on there.
Yes.
Okay, so let's talk about then.
So again, playing a little bit of devil's advocate here.
I don't think that Apple has missed the mark
with their audience at all.
We are talking about a six.
You don't think they're outright
outraging the same person they were afraid of to outrage
when we talked about the lower level.
I think they're going to outrage people,
but I don't think those were the customer
for this product at all.
We're talking about a $6,000 monitor.
Once you get the anti-glare special etched glass coating.
We're talking about a $6,000 machine that it hooks up to.
At that point, it is an 8% difference in cost
to get the pro stand.
Or just, or what percentage is that?
Or we're talking like a 1.75% difference in cost
to get a VESA mount.
Right.
1.5%.
That's all we're talking about.
Well, $200 is nothing.
People who can afford that pee the $200.
A grand.
Not necessarily.
Maybe they don't pee it,
but maybe they can make that $200 back
because this is a tool that they use for actual work.
So I paid, how much did I pay for this?
The handle.
$1,200 for two.
$1,200.
For two?
Well, yeah, like a pair.
It's a set of two.
A pair is $1,200.
Okay.
So I paid $600 for this.
Let's break it down a little bit.
Here's a piece of machined aluminum.
Here's a screw.
Here's a little aluminum doohickey that you can twist.
Here's a button.
Another aluminum doohickey.
Here's a little adjusty doohickey
with another little doodad on it.
Here's a rubber handle.
Let's go, let's go.
Okay, so $600.
But I did this because there's nothing else on the market
that has the same level of ergonomics and build quality
that allows us to operate the camera more comfortably.
So effectively, I'm not buying some stupid aluminum doohickey
I'm buying a camera.
The solution.
I'm buying a camera operator
who's back doesn't need Cairo appointments every week
that ultimately my company's health plan is gonna pay for.
That's what I'm buying.
So it's a different perspective.
And when it comes to legitimate professional level gear,
I'm not talking about an iPad Pro.
That's not professional equipment.
A MacBook Pro is not professional equipment anymore.
People are doing real work on them,
but Apple has sullied that product line.
They have made it about a status symbol
that you can use to browse Facebook.
Hot take.
More than just about actually getting real work done
and delivering the best possible performance.
Now, my thoughts may change
when I actually haven't watched our review
of the upcoming eight core MacBook Pro.
So I'm basing it on the one that thermal throttled last.
Apparently it's a lot better.
But I'm talking about actual tools
that actual professionals will buy
to actually make money with them.
It's a different equation when you make money
with something that you buy.
At least cognitively, you can justify it.
Sure.
Also, if you make more money with it, then objectively,
it's a good investment.
Well.
Okay.
Hey, do you know how much employee healthcare costs?
600 bucks?
Whatever.
Or like if someone quit because I couldn't provide
the ergonomic equipment that they need to not be in pain.
Do you know how much it costs to train a person?
We're talking thousands and thousands of dollars
in lost productivity.
What, this makes them happy?
All right.
What do I care?
Well, I want a better chair.
What chair do you have now?
I'm just joking, actually.
I have had a really nice Herman Miller before I work.
It was pretty cool.
Should we wrap it up?
Is that it?
Super chats?
Can we do some super chats?
Oh, we should really do some super chats.
Just for YouTube's sake.
Yes, yes.
Yeah, here YouTube.
Here's your, here, let's find the most expensive super chat.
YouTube, can we get some?
Here you go, YouTube.
Here's 30 bucks from Tyne and Dugdall.
Hey Linus, Paradox Interactive of CK2EU4
made a music video for their upcoming Paradox Con.
Will we get a music video for LTX?
Will we get a music video for LTX?
I have to confess,
I had not given that one nanosecond of thought.
Well, I can imagine us having footage from LTX
placed over music or with music
and released as promotional material for the next one.
But I don't think we're gonna choreograph any dancing
or get any sexy people in bikinis.
We could put us in bikinis.
Is that something I can make you guys do?
I said, sexy people in bikinis.
Yeah, I mean, we're sexy, aren't we?
Compared to what, Linus?
BH Prototyping says,
would you ever consider fully building
an entire production grade computer case from scratch
for a video in the future?
Absolutely, in fact.
We're doing that wood one.
Are we?
You okayed the wood case.
Did I?
Are we okay making it from scratch?
No.
Okay.
Actually, yeah, that is something
that we would consider doing.
It would have to be the right project.
I mean, we have designed cases from scratch before.
My personal rig is in a completely custom-designed case
that was built by Protocase.
Anthony Berg, hi.
Joseph Thornier, hi.
Chad, hi.
Hey, Chad.
Blame the dingus.
More free Super Chat, thank you.
JR Andrew Mosspack says,
do you think Apple will lock out the PCI ports?
I sincerely hope that they don't.
At least not directly.
I think what Apple will do is
they will limit the availability of drivers for devices
to ones that they want plugged into those PCIe ports.
Just like they do with the Blackmagic eGPU.
Exactly.
Just like you can't plug an Nvidia graphics card
into a MacBook because Apple will not okay the drivers.
To be clear, I actually had someone complaining
in the comments on the Mac Pro video
where I appeared to be blaming Apple
for the rift between Apple and Nvidia.
To be clear, I don't.
I suspect that between Nvidia and Apple,
you've got the two biggest egos in the entire industry
and it's no wonder they can't get along
and it's probably equal parts both of their fault.
Actually, it's probably more Nvidia's fault
because they screwed Apple pretty good
on those dying GPUs back in the day.
Carpentry says Canadian dollars for the merch store, please.
Sorry, it's not gonna happen anytime soon.
The vast majority of our audience is in the U.S.
and the ones that aren't, quite frankly,
aren't in Canada either
and the U.S. dollar is kind of the international currency.
If we have Shopify, we can't have multiple currencies.
Oh, apparently it's Shopify's fault.
We can't have multiple currencies on it.
I'll double check, but I think.
Oh, wow, you made me call out Shopify
and you haven't double checked it.
Yeah.
Dang it, Nick.
So you're saying you don't care.
So you're saying you're rich so you don't care.
No, I'm saying that I use these products to make money.
Think about it this way.
You can apply the same logic to anything.
As a parent whose kids won't use it very often,
I could say a $75 Radio Flyer wagon is very expensive
and I'm not gonna buy one.
But if my son were to say,
I'm gonna get a job delivering newspapers,
I can deliver newspapers 30% faster
with a Radio Flyer wagon.
I could make back that money
in seven days of delivering newspapers.
Now it's not expensive.
It costs the exact same amount of money.
It's just a matter of measuring that amount that it costs
against the ROI that it delivers for the business.
It's a different calculation.
It doesn't necessarily mean
that you don't care about what the cost is.
It just means that there are other factors at play.
Price is an arbitrary measure of value.
So if you value it differently than someone else does
because of your circumstances, then.
Scott says, you crashed YouTube with last week's WAN show.
Actually, this is two WAN shows in a row
that they haven't managed to process correctly.
So my intention today is to kill the live stream
and then re-upload it as a VOD.
Because they promised me it's not gonna happen again,
but they also couldn't offer an explanation
as to why it happened last week
and why it took an entire week for them to fix it.
Tyler Gaming says, I'm a Linux user.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, enjoy your very limited suite
of creative professional software.
Like, come on, it's not that simple.
You know that.
Tommy Gun says, how's the 100K PC and personal rig doing?
My personal rig's great.
James helped me upgrade it again yesterday.
So I'm super stoked on that.
And 100K PC, we have a video coming very soon.
We shot that this week.
Okay, I think I'm gonna call that it.
Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen.
And we will see you again next week.
Same bat time, same bat channel.
Oh, IAMBLUR, 20 bucks.
Sorry, I will answer you.
Do you know of a two-in-one or a convertible laptop
with pen support for drawing that can also game
at approximately medium settings?
Wow.
I wouldn't count on finding that.
I would more look for something
that has a good drawing surface that has Thunderbolt
and I would use an eGPU when you're gaming.
I don't know what to tell you.
Or I would wait for, oh, I would wait for, wait, what?
I would wait for a 10th gen.
They're gonna have better onboard graphics.
Alex P. A prime from our editing team sent a super chat
asking if this is a conflict of interest.
Sending the super chat.
What are you even- For $2.
What are you even, I'm reporting him.
I'm putting the user in timeout.
There, timeout, timeout, A prime.
No.
All right, bye guys.
Oh, wait, what the, what the deuce?
Rover.
Yeah, Rover apparently gets the whole thing.
Rover.
Red Rover.
False way, honey.
Us again.
Part of the intro.
It's dead.
And bye. And it's gone.