Welcome to the WAN Show, guys! The la-
Oh, we apparently dropped a frame, but then it doesn't detect it up there, so we're gonna go ahead and hope that everything's okay.
Welcome to the WAN Show, guys! The week where you watch us talk about the technical difficulties that occurred before the-
I don't know.
The show.
I've been off for like three weeks.
Like, no, like not vacation, because I clearly haven't had a vacation.
Like, the marks under my eyes, and yours too, for that matter.
Uh, but, I mean, like not- not on, like not on fire.
We've got a great show for you guys today, though.
So AMD Mantle is becoming a bigger and bigger deal pretty much by the day.
For those of you who aren't familiar, Mantle is AMD's new API that seeks to, well, pretty much take the place of DirectX and OpenGL.
Well, not take the place, but Augment.
And by Augment, I mean don't use the other one.
You should use this new one. It's better.
Um, so we're gonna have Ryan Shroud on to talk about that, actually very shortly, as soon as we can get in touch with him.
Do you even have a username for him? Like, did you send him the login details?
No.
Okay, well, let's send those over to him.
Worst case scenario, I think I have him in my phone, so I can call him and just be like,
Yo, Todd.
You good to go?
Uh, I don't.
Okay.
Um, so anyway, let's- we'll get that rolling as soon as we can.
And then, uh, the RIAA and MPAA are introducing a new ele- well, are trying to introduce a new elementary school curriculum that would have students in the United States learn about the dangers of piracy.
So that's something that they're lobbying for right now, but hasn't necessarily been implemented yet, with teachers having some fairly reasonable objections to it.
Fairly reasonable.
Next up, we've got LSI's new SandForce controller.
So for those of you who don't know, LSI acquired SandForce some time ago that will enable truly next generation SSD performance.
And finally, AMD news just keeps coming. I mean, good AMD news.
The 290 looks like it can be flashed to a 290X, and we're even seeing reports of these cards being available pre-flashed for people to just buy for cheaper, which is extremely cool.
So without further ado, it's intro time, and I have no idea how loud it is.
So this will be- I can't monitor.
So-
Let me- let me actively change it here.
Okay, yes!
I'll- I'll- it'll be loud at the beginning, so turn everything down for a second.
Be ready. Prepare yourself.
And, going.
Okay, good enough.
I think that's a- it's not exactly where it's supposed to be, but it's-
So apparently there's no sound on the intro, which means I don't really have to worry about talking over it today.
So guys, Squarespace is our sponsor for the show today.
You can head over to squarespace.com and use offer code Linus11, which is good for November, to get 10% off your first membership.
So, trials are free, and actually, we had a promotion that we ran two weeks ago, where we are giving away a Squarespace website to someone who designed it, and tweeted with the appropriate hashtag.
So we're gonna be picking the winner live here on the show this week, and big thanks again to Squarespace, so the easy way to build your own website, and I've never actually said what they do,
to build your own website that is easy to use and easy to manage with dynamic sort of hosting that can-
Oh, wait, what?
Dynamic sort of hosting that can wait what?
Apparently that was- apparently we were too quiet during that. Lower- lower them you know what?
I don't even- like I don't even know- I don't even know what people are talking about.
So Squarespace is our sponsor today. They're awesome. Offer code Linus11, easy website creation tool.
It's like GeoCities, except it doesn't suck.
Don't- did you upload the YouTube video?
Did I upload the YouTube video?
Saying that we're live?
Yeah.
Okay, cool.
How come?
I was just making sure.
Oh, I should probably make sure that it actually, you know, managed to make it.
Is it public?
Especially with all the like awesomeness going on with YouTube lately, and things just generally not working.
Yeah, yeah, it's pushing to subscriber feeds right now, so they'll start- they'll start tuning in.
Alright, so I have no idea who's calling me from Toronto, but now's not the time.
Oh, that's definitely- I know who that is.
Oh, yeah, I can't take that call right now.
No.
So, you know, I don't know. You might want to- you might want to get in touch with someone related to that person
to maybe let them know that now's not a good time.
Alright, so let's- what's up?
I don't have my phone, so nope.
Yeah, you do. It's right here.
Oh, I do.
See? Like a boss.
Alright, so let's move on to our first topic here.
This is something that I suspect Slick here hasn't done too much reading up on, because it is like-
No, don't worry.
I did.
Isn't it amazing?
It's kind of hilarious.
Okay guys, we are actually going to- we're gonna try to watch this together.
I hope that the volume's okay, because this thing is epic beyond all belief.
This is Ever Jane.
The virtual world of Jane Austen is a Kickstarter for an MMO that-
I mean, I'm not even gonna- I'm not even going to color my- my words here.
I'm just going to read from the site, okay?
In the virtual world of Jane Austen, it is not about kill or be killed, but invite and be invited with gossip, our weapon of choice.
So, we're just gonna watch a brief snippet of the video here together, if this is ever going to load,
because for some reason tethering is the slowest thing ever on this phone compared to the H-
I got my one back today, and I'm super stoked to go back to it.
Like, all the stoked to go back to it.
Did I what? You bet.
Okay, sweet.
Yeah, don't worry. We're on this. We're like, okay, well, whatever. We can't watch this video.
This is not gonna work.
Because it's just not gonna load, because our wifi hotspot needs to just choke on a bag of, uh, uh, dongers.
So, basically- okay, get this, guys. So, Ever Jane is a virtual world that allows people to roleplay in Regency period England.
Okay, so our quests are derived from players' actions and stories, and we gossip rather than swords and magic to demolish our enemies and aid our friends.
So, right now, you can actually download a prototype. So, the prototype includes the gossip and invitation system.
So, you can use gossip and invitations to build your own, um, you know, reputation.
And when you have a better reputation, then presumably you can have- if they reach some of their stretch goals, you could have, like, you know, a, um, uh, hold on.
You can go fishing.
Yeah, no, no, that's for the men.
Not that- I mean-
Ah, okay.
It- in their defense, at that-
It's in the world of Jane Austen, yeah, yeah, yeah.
At that time, that would have been a thing.
Uh, so, hold on, hold on.
Uh, oh, oh, okay, so itera- okay, here, we're gonna go back to this.
Alright, so, iteration one is sleuthing system, which is part of gossip, so you can find out who's gossiping about you.
You can write letters between characters, iteration two gets dinner parties, balls.
That's not the only thing about this that'll be balls.
And travel between villages, carriages, and horses, and iteration three adds hunting and sewing.
And upgrades gossip to use language parsing, so there's card games and-
Okay, so stretch goals, you can get estate planning with a $200,000 stretch goal.
Um, you can get landscaping with a $250,000 stretch goal, so they're gonna add landscaping to- to the, uh, whatever this is.
Marming. Sweet.
Yeah, so, basically, I mean, you know what?
I- I don't know what to say about this that won't offend someone.
I think girl gamers deserve better.
I think that this is, like, trying to appeal to the most stereotypical girl gamer.
Because, you know what, The Sims, which is a notoriously, you know, cross-gendered, not to say cross-gendered,
but, um, appealing to both genders game.
Because it's role-playing, and you can- and it's- it's light- it's simulation, okay?
This is not simulation.
This is, like, um, this is, like, taking all the things that I think-
And, like, if it wasn't a female, like, if it wasn't a female coming up with the idea,
I would've looked at this as, like, uh, a cynical man trying to build a game for girls.
I think if they made Bully, but, like, more mild, not, like, not, like, actually bully.
They made- oh, what's the name of that show? I don't watch TV, so it's kind of a problem.
Um, Bad Girls?
Mean Girls.
Mean Girls. There we go.
Mean Girls.
If they made Bully, but, like, Mean Girls, I think that could maybe work.
That could maybe work. I think guys would play that. I think everyone would play that.
See, like, that kind of makes more sense.
This is, I think, too mild, and I think she's going after Jane Austen stories,
which, while they were super popular for a long time before, and are, I think, probably still read by my mom-
They're hard to read, man. They're hard to read.
I don't-
I've read a couple. I've read, uh, I've read, uh-
I've heard they're good, I just don't read them.
I read Emma, I read, uh, Pride and Prejudice.
Emma's supposed to be- both of those are supposed to be really good.
I read Pride and Prejudice and Zombies as well, which was better.
So-
I think I bought my mom Pride and Prejudice.
Yeah, so, okay, you know, great comment in the Twitch chat.
There's no such thing as a girl gamer.
There's just gamers.
Yeah.
And some of them happen to be girls.
And this is targeted towards a thing that doesn't exist.
A girl gamer.
Who's, like, every negative stereotype about, you know, what gaming girls would do.
So there.
That's what I- that's what I don't like about that Kickstarter project.
It's not gonna get funded by the look of things, so I don't have to worry about it too much.
But, what I am planning to do sometime in the next little while is I will be downloading the demo.
And I'll be trying it out.
Because maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe I come back to the WAN show next week and I'm like, yup, I was wrong.
I was wrong and, uh, they were right and it's amazing.
I'll just shoot myself.
Yeah, speaking of things that I was wrong about.
Something that we both failed to mention last week when we were talking about PS Vita and PlayStation 4 streaming.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaking of which, I ordered a- what you got?
What's that?
Cake.
What is it?
What?
And it's a cake in the shape of a knot for a fan.
What?
What?
From Curtis, I think?
Curtis?
Chris.
Yeah, okay.
I think I know which Chris this is.
Um, okay, so we just got a cake.
Um, I don't know how people are even doing this.
But, um.
I know how.
It's got chocolate on it and like, I don't know, I don't know how a cake in the shape of a knot to a fan was obtained.
But I have to admire the uh, the uh, I don't know whatever it is that it took to come up with this particular idea.
They can't stop laughing.
Okay, it's like Ghost and Ixy and Foxhound and Mape and Wind Speed and all those guys.
It probably ended up being, um, just guessing it was probably Wailer who actually put the order in.
You know what's funny is I actually just started playing Portal 2 last night.
So, so I'm having like, like.
It is a lie because it's not actually a fan.
I know.
The cake is a lie.
Uh, it seems like something that should be cold.
Do you mind uh, putting it in, I guess, freezer or fridge?
I don't know.
Someone can tell us whether it goes in the freezer or the fridge.
So apparently it was a whole bunch of mods, um, and a whole bunch of the mods friends.
Well, thank you very much guys.
That is uh, that is very, very cool of you.
That's actually pretty epic.
That's hilarious.
What a, what a wan show moment that is.
Um.
Oh, I think Ryan's here.
Okay, alright.
So we'll bring Ryan on right away after this, but okay.
So something both he and I failed to mention last week when we were talking about PS Vita
streaming as well as Nvidia Shield streaming is that Sony had remote play back in 2005-2006
and it was a feature that allowed you to stream your gameplay to a device of your choice.
In fact, it was way more versatile than Nvidia's solution because it allowed you to stream
to phones and PCs and you could stream your PSP games from your PSP to your PS3 and play
them there.
So this was posted by Tom Lambert 01 on the forum.
So thank you Tom for the correction.
We genuinely do appreciate it.
This is something that because I wasn't a PS3 gamer, never really paid any attention
to any of it, I was actually completely not aware of.
So there you go.
Thank you for bringing that to our attention.
Alright, next up we've got, actually are we ready to have Ryan join us?
I can't.
Am I going to have audio if I put these on?
You should.
Because I can't hear a thing.
In one second.
Alright.
Woo!
Okay, so I'll move on to something else in the meantime then.
Nope, they're not talking.
Let's talk about the-
Oh, they are talking.
Okay.
So we can hear those guys, but we can't hear Ryan yet.
We can hear who?
I just-
Oh, wow.
Hey, there it is.
Okay, excellent.
That's most good.
Most good.
Alright, so is this listening to anything yet or no?
I believe that is listening to Ryan.
I think they can hear Ryan.
There we go.
Whoa, hi!
How are you Ryan?
Alright, so how was the AMD show last week?
The APU 13 event had surprisingly more news than I expected to see from it.
Kind of didn't really know what to expect going into it, but they talked about, you
know, Kaveri APU and what are the other ones?
BEMA and Mullins.
Then they talked about Mantle and they had some good content there actually.
Okay, so let's start with Mantle.
What was your initial take when we first heard about it at GPU 13 versus hearing about
it now?
You know, I don't think a whole bunch has changed yet, right?
So when we first heard about it, it was Battlefield 4 only, although that's a pretty big deal,
and then we heard it was going to be Frostbite Engine, and now they actually showed two different
developers in addition to DICE that are integrating Mantle.
They actually showed performance metrics of some kind, not the kind that we're used to
seeing like frame rates and stuff, but looking at what they call draw calls per second, where
there used to be batch levels of 3,000 to 5,000 and now this developer was showing a
real-time strategy game that was running like 100,000 batch calls.
It doesn't directly translate to performance, but it means that there's one less bottleneck
holding them back from improving performance in other ways.
Let's try to explain to the viewers for a moment what something like draw calls means
to performance compared to the numbers that we're typically used to seeing, like teraflops
or pixel fill rates or numbers like that.
A draw call is like the setup process of the game engine.
The processor, not the GPU, the actual Intel or AMD CPU, has to organize a bunch of draw
calls that says, what is the game engine actually asking me to do?
What does it want to draw?
What does it want to see?
And it compiles these into groups called batches, and this kind of batching process has been
a limiting factor for game developers in certain ways at this event.
We heard developers talk about that it was, for years and years, you never cross that
3,000 to 5,000 draw calls per batch level, and it was just something that was assumed
throughout the industry.
What that did was it kind of limited how creative they could be with designs of characters,
polygon counts, shader counts, that kind of thing, and if you can expand that up, which
Mantle does, it gets rid of the API overhead and it allows these developers to kind of
directly code to the processor in a much more efficient manner, then by having these additional
batch call capabilities, they have the ability to improve visuals or performance one way
or the other.
Now, one of the ways Chris Roberts explained it to me, so that's Chris Roberts from Cloud
Imperium Games, so the maker of Star Citizen, one of the ways he explained it to me was
that you can use the processing power of the graphics card to say, for example, draw some
rock, and then if you can have an order of magnitude more draw calls, you can take those
same resources and you can replicate that rock all over the place in order to make for
a more varied, exciting-looking environment.
Is that the main benefit, I guess, of having more draw calls?
I'd say that's one of the primary benefits of it, for sure.
It basically opens up the palette for these designers and these coders to do things that
they couldn't do before.
When we talk about benchmarks and performance, we're used to bottlenecks like frame rates
or how many threads are being actually utilized on a processor, but for the most part, we
don't really know what is the processor really doing most of the time, and this setup is
part of that.
Implementing Mantle gives developers the capability to be more creative and institute things like
being more creative and offering up more options to increase poly counts or increase character
counts and increase resolution or granularity of surroundings and stuff like that.
It's more about enabling artists to be more openly creative and game developers to not
have as many restrictions as they used to have.
I don't think when the Battlefield 4 version of Mantle comes out that it's going to be
100% faster.
I think it's realistically going to be somewhere between 10% and 15% faster than the standard
DX11 version.
It's just a matter of every time you remove a bottleneck, something else crops up, but
it's a constant battle that hardware developers and driver developers have to worry about
finding.
Now, speaking of, you talked about, we don't really know what the processor is doing a
little while back there.
One of, I think, the most impressive demos that AMD showed off at their event was downclocking
an FX-8350 to 2 GHz, so for those of you who don't know what they're normally clocked at,
that's like damn near 60% of its normal clock speed, and then they showed that a Radeon R9 290X
was still GPU-bound in the game that they were showing off, as opposed to being CPU-bound
in spite of the fact that they had turned down the single-threaded performance of their CPU
so dramatically.
Is this just better optimization in general?
I mean, we've already seen that Frostbite 3, whether you're running Mantle, obviously
we're not running Mantle yet, but whether you're running Mantle or not, is able to make
pretty good use of multiple cores.
So is this just a general optimization thing, or is Mantle really going to pave the way
for us to not need very powerful processors anymore?
I think it's going to help, and keep in mind from what position AMD is coming at, they
have the lower performance processors in this battle against Intel, so anytime they can
say push off that bottleneck to the GPU instead of the CPU, that's a big advantage for them.
But I do believe that, and I think most people that are PC gamers will realize, that you
don't have to have a core i7-4960X to play games.
You would much rather spend that money...
No, hold on Ryan, hold on just a minute.
I think that when I got Far Cry, I think it was, there's a thing that pops up and it's
that it plays best on Core 2 Duo Extreme, so I'm pretty sure you need an Extreme Edition
to play games, I mean that's been true for years now.
Well I hope you didn't upgrade away from the Core 2 Duo, because then your performance
would probably go down, right?
I get such a kick out of that, when they do, when Intel used to do that branding of a specific
product right in front of a game, it's like, guys, that's relevant for like 18 months, maybe.
So sorry, go ahead, yes, you don't need an Extreme Edition to play games.
Yeah, I mean you don't need it, and you can game on a quad-core APU, as long as you have
a discrete graphics card, and you're still going to get really good PC gaming performance.
And I think Mantle is a really interesting step down that pathway of integrating things
differently.
I'm still not sold on it being kind of this global success that AMD wants us to believe
it is.
You know, we've seen several developers integrate it now.
We've also seen several developers integrate PhysX.
I just don't know how long-term that will be.
Say it again?
I said we've also seen several developers integrate PhysX.
Right, right.
And it doesn't necessarily mean that the long-term viability of that technology is solid.
Okay, so what else really stood out to you about the event?
Maybe talk about Kaveri, because you mentioned just a second ago there, a quad-core APU is
fine for gaming as long as you still have a discrete GPU.
Do you think that's still the case with Kaveri?
Yeah, I really do.
There are use cases where even today, Richland or Trinity is going to be okay for 1080p gaming
at lower, low to medium settings.
And Kaveri improves that by probably 40, 50%.
I mean, we showed a video where they had the Kaveri demo system running Battlefield 4 at
1080p at medium quality settings.
So that's impressive technologically.
Like, I've been doing this for a long time, and to see that this flagship high-end PC
gaming title looks really good.
First of all, Battlefield 4 looks really good at medium quality settings.
Yeah, it does.
I mean, that's what AMB has with the demo right off the bat.
But they're running it off of an APU that's drawing, I don't know, 100 watts, 120 watts
or something like that.
That's pretty impressive.
But the people that listen to your show, the people that listen to our show, they want
better than that, right?
And you can get better than that for not a whole lot of money.
So I think they're progressing down the right path.
This was always the plan, even though the kind of dark secret that came out during the
show was that this performance is actually lower than what they had said was going to
the performance of Kaveri a year ago.
Right.
They had lower clocks on the CPU and GPU.
Right, okay.
Can you, wait, what just happened?
Oh, okay.
Okay, Luke, can you actually mute Ryan for a second?
Ryan, can you turn on push to talk?
Because we're getting some feedback from your mic whenever you're not talking.
I think it's trying to...
I think it's trying to...
I can use, I've got a foot pedal for mute.
I can do that.
Wicked.
Okay, thanks, man.
Okay, so the thing that I wanted to talk about is I think the real issue with the APUs and
the strategy that AMD has here is they're trying to do what Intel's doing, where they're
positioning their APUs as a premium, sort of as a price premium when they first introduced
them.
They're trying to ask for more money for them than I think that rather than just bringing
them to market at what I really think is a fair price.
So, an example of this is something like Richland, where their top tier APU, the 6800K, I guess
it is, is like $140, and then you can get something that offers pretty near the same
performance, that isn't FM2 plus or whatever, so something like an A8 5600K for $40 less,
which when we're talking about $100 or $140 CPUs is a very, very significant difference.
With that $40, I think that the difference in slightly better CPU performance and then
maybe, I mean, when they introduced Kaveri, dramatically better GPU performance is not
going to be justified by the performance that's there.
So, you're going to have to invest in a more expensive CPU, AMD's going to want a premium
from you for the latest technology.
You're going to need a more expensive motherboard because, once again, the motherboard manufacturers
are first coming to market with the premium chipsets for what, to me, really is a very
entry level platform.
So, by the time you do the CPU and motherboard cost comparisons against a last generation
APU, you're probably spending another $60 to $70.
Now, $60 to $70 is an awful long way towards a pretty decent dedicated graphics card.
We did a console killer type build for our image quality comparison, where we gave ourselves
a $450 budget, so smack dab in between the price of the two next-gen consoles, and what
we ended up with was a 5600K, so we found the cheapest quad-core APU we could, we grabbed
a 7770, then we went with a cheapo hard drive, cheapo case, you know, basically doorstop
power supply, but at least, like, it's an Ntech basic or something, I think, so it's
nothing special, but it's also not going to explode immediately.
And we were able to achieve similar image quality in Battlefield 4 as what we could
get with a PS4 or an Xbox One, and obviously much more functionality, and that wouldn't
be possible with Caveri.
Did you include an operating system in that build price?
$550 with OS.
So, $450 hardware, $550 OS.
Okay, because we did a similar thing, and it was disheartening to see 20% of your system
build price be relegated to a copy of Windows 8 or whatever.
Hey, it's EVOS!
It's coming.
Yeah, it can't come soon enough.
But your point is pretty valid, right?
When Caveri comes out, it's going to be a little bit more expensive than Richland.
Is it going to be justified?
It all depends on the consumer.
I don't think somebody who is a gamer is going to want this part.
But if you're somebody that is building a PC for another purpose, a home theater PC
or a small form factor build that maybe you already have your main rig upstairs and you
want to have something small and modest downstairs or at your office or something, it will be
able to do some of that stuff.
And that's kind of what AMD is leaning on for their advantages over what they can with
Intel because they do not have a severe disadvantage on the processor side.
So they've got to push this GPU side.
And to be completely honest, they may not have that lead on the GPU side for very long
in terms of the integrated processors because Intel is continuing to increase their GPU
performance on these integrated processors, these processor graphics, I guess, as Intel
calls them.
And I think it'll still be a little while before they catch up, but they're still Intel.
They have such an advantage.
They're still willing to do it.
And it's weird.
Process node aside, Intel relegates so...
Relegates?
Oh, man.
Dude, I'm tired.
Intel allocates so little of the die size.
When you look at the actual die photographs, so little of it is the actual CPU that even
if you factor out their process node advantage, AMD to achieve worse performance and worse
power consumption is spending an awful lot more die area on the CPU.
So Intel is going to have this advantage where just in terms of the sheer amount, in terms
of the sheer die size, they're going to be able to allocate a ton more space to a GPU
just to make up for whatever advantages AMD might have in terms of their experience building
GPUs.
And I think that's going to continue to help Intel close the gap as they get more experienced.
That's the point that I'm laboriously trying to get to here.
Well, Intel has this huge advantage with its manufacturing, right?
So they're trying to utilize that manufacturing advantage to go after the ARM market.
And they're also going to try to use some of that to make up for these graphics deficits
that they've traditionally had.
It'll be interesting to see this coming generation, like the end of 2014, Intel does versus what
AMD does because Intel has slowly been increasing the percentage of the die that they use for
graphics.
Intel is probably in the 40% range with Haswell, I think.
And AMD is just over 50% with Kaveri.
And it's a better 50%, right?
The units that AMD has built are better and more efficient than what Intel has built.
But that will eventually change.
And if you're running at 22 nanometer or 14 nanometer next year, you have a little bit
more flexibility about how much die space you can just create for those parts.
So it'll be interesting in an integrated space in 2014, to be sure.
Especially because there's no pressure on Intel to increase IPC on the CPU side.
So if they can go, OK, we're going to shrink to 14 nanometer.
We're going to do pretty much nothing other than optimize for power on the CPU side.
We're going to allocate all that extra die space to GPU.
And it's off to the races.
Yeah.
I mean, that's unfortunately been the case for Intel for several years about not really
pushing forward on the CPU space.
After the Pentium 4 disaster, they slowly built back up so that they were the dominant
CPU vendor over Athlon and Phenom and all that.
And when AMD could no longer compete, they just kind of said, OK, we're good where we're
at.
We get those sporadic updates like the Sandy Bridgie and the Ivy Bridgie.
And they can pack 10 or 12 cores onto a Xeon.
But they're not really changing anything drastically like they hope to do on the graphics side.
Yeah, that's that's extremely frustrating, I think, for enthusiasts everywhere.
So we've got a couple other topics here that we could.
Guys, if you have any questions for Ryan, go ahead and hit us up on Twitter at Linus Tech.
And we'll do a Twitter blitz with him at some point here.
But I'd like to get your take on LSI's upcoming Sanforce SF 3700 controller.
I had not looked at that yet.
OK, forget about it then.
Let's move on to something else.
All of our storage stuff, so.
Don't worry about it.
I'll hit you with something that's a little bit.
Ah, yes.
OK.
You can buy pre-flashed Radeon R9 290s that have been flashed with 290X BIOSes.
What is your take on all of this and how cannibalized has AMD made their own high end lineup?
I mean, so far we haven't found an X card with a non-X equivalent that makes any sense to buy.
Yeah, the 290X is increasingly becoming a more and more kind of derelict part in the PC market.
When it launched, everybody loved it.
It was this super high performance card.
It was less expensive than the GTX 780 and the Titan.
And then Nvidia dropped its prices.
I think further than AMD expected.
AMD releases the 290, undercutting their own part by a huge margin, even though performance is very close.
And you can, like, overclock it a little bit more and you're going to go well beyond that.
And you're going to save, what is it, $150?
Yeah, it's a significant...
That's pretty big.
It's a big chunk of change.
It makes the 290X weird.
Now, have you guys played around with how 290 and 290X for that matter perform when you are able to keep thermals under control?
I haven't used anything except the reference coolers on that.
But I have run reference coolers, let's say, at higher fan speeds than should be allowed on your ears.
And it does well.
It does well.
But the most recent issue that we had in a couple of the 290X retail cards,
and we were comparing how that compared to the reference cards that I got and I think that you got as well,
and that was the big issue that they had in cranking up the fan speeds a little bit to making sure that everything was consistent.
It was kind of an odd move as well.
The one thing that's weird about the 290 compared to the 290X is that the 290 is louder, its default state, than the 290X.
It's got fewer shader units, but they run them at a lower speed but at a higher fan speed,
so it's running at its top clocks more consistently.
It's a really odd kind of balancing move they've done to kind of push themselves out of a market that they were doing very well in.
I know! 290X was competitive from the start.
I mean, did they... I don't know.
Honestly, it wasn't as confusing quite to me as 270 was, because 270 I didn't even know about.
So at GPU 13, they didn't talk about it at all unless you were in a secret briefing room where you have to have lasers coming out of your eyes to be in that one.
Did you know about 270?
No, not until I got an email that said, hey, there's one on their way to you, and as I was kind of getting ready to leave for the APU 13 event,
and I said, well, I'm not going to be able to get this tested and stuff before I leave for this event, so give me a little bit of background on it.
And they said, oh, we'll send you the slide deck.
And usually if they're not real eager to brag about what the product is, that there's usually something you need to pay attention to.
And I got the specs, and I looked at it, and I almost emailed them back.
I said, no, no, no, no, you sent me the 270X specs.
So what did you really mean to send me?
And I started looking at it, and I was like, wow, there's like no difference here, and then there's a $20 MSRP difference?
You want to talk about congesting the market.
You're supposed to do that against your competition, not really against your own GPUs.
Yeah, our 270 video, I think the thumbnail was something like, why does this exist?
Like, they might as well have just price dropped 270X and not bothered to come up with another SKU.
Mind you, from, okay, if you're going to look at this from an AMD perspective,
they've sure gotten a lot of impressions without actually paying for advertising by doing so many GPU launches here.
Yeah, you know, AMD did this with the 7000 series. I don't remember if they did with the 6000 series.
With the 7000 series, I remember being equally annoyed with, here's the 7970, and now the 7950, and now the 7870, and then the 7850.
And so it was like every 10 days, there was an AMD graphics card launch.
Hold on, don't forget the gigahertz edition.
Right, right, right. I mean, it was just, you know, do a few of them together.
I thought they would do better this time. They did the 280, 270, and 260 kind of as a bundle.
But I think they more did that because it was a rebrand and selling each of those individually as new products,
10 days separated would probably be even more of a headache for them.
But yeah, I mean, it's definitely, you know, that's one way that these vendors kind of create interest and excitement for their product is,
if we just tweak this one thing, everybody kind of has to talk about it again.
Whereas if the product is just sitting on the shelf and we've already done our reviews,
and their board partners aren't coming out with something really exciting to get us to write it about it again, they start to suffer.
So I don't think they, I mean, it's so quick, I don't think they did it for this, but something to keep an eye out for.
All right, now we get asked this a lot. I know it's sort of a terrible question, but I'm going to ask it to you anyway.
If you had to pick, so based on what you are projecting with respect to Mantle, I mean, if you're...
This is a terrible question.
I know. Okay, if you had to, but the reality of it is...
It's still a terrible question.
It doesn't matter. The reality of it is...
People have to make this decision.
Unless you're someone like you or me or Ryan, who gets to pick whatever damn graphics card they want and put it in their system,
and they can swap them at a moment's notice.
Ryan, right now, what do you think is a more compelling technology? Mantle or G-Sync?
Because those are really the big new things from both camps.
I know. I know it's a terrible question. I'm sorry to do it to you, but...
It's G-Sync. I mean, it's G-Sync, but I'll...
So, I'll say this. G-Sync is the most interesting technology for me in gaming, kind of period, right now.
But I'm not really super excited about it in its current state.
On a 1080p TN panel, it's much better, but I would love to see it on a IPS 1080p.
Or if you're going to keep me on TN, put me on a 25x14 panel.
4K is a little bit of a stretch still.
But people like us that have been kind of feeding the enthusiast base about,
hey, you need to upgrade to this 2560x1440 monitor because that is the next thing.
Or look at this 4K stuff. We did some 4K demos, and this is really expensive,
but if you want to look at what it's going to be like in a year or two years, this is awesome.
And now to kind of be pulled back into, hey, check out this great technology on 1080p only right now.
It's a little bit disheartening for that.
But for Mantle, it's so far away.
It feels so far away, even though Battlefield 4 is supposed to be out this year with the Mantle support.
The benefits of it feel so indirect or, I don't know, wishy-washy.
Like, I'm not exactly sure what I'm getting with it.
Whereas with G-Sync, I know and you know exactly what you're getting with it
because you got to see it in person.
And that's something that people listening don't have the advantage of.
Here's the thing about Mantle. And I mean, with Battlefield 4 specifically,
what Luke and I actually noticed, because we were capturing footage from Battlefield 4 and Assassin's Creed 4,
was that Battlefield 4 really doesn't have an issue with tearing in the same way that some other games do.
So for example, Assassin's Creed 4 becomes a tearing, disgusting mess as soon as you...
In certain areas.
Yeah, as soon as you pan the camera in certain areas.
It's like it's unplayable. It's at 60 FPS, but who cares, because it looks awful.
I tried it in other areas, though it's like very specifically in certain areas.
So on the other hand, Battlefield 4, we didn't really have an issue with it.
So I look at that and I go, okay, well yeah, if you throw another 10 even or 20%
or even up to 40% performance at it, that's great.
With that said, Battlefield 4 is also extremely well optimized
and we're able to run into high detail settings even on low-end hardware.
So that's a thing as well.
So Mantle to me is such a mixed bag, because there's gonna be engines where even with Mantle implemented,
you're still gonna have tearing and lagginess all over the place.
Whereas with G-Sync, maybe you don't get the FPS that you do with Mantle,
but man, does it ever look smoother.
You know, I see some people in the chat commenting like,
G-Sync would be great for mid-range but not for the high-end,
or does G-Sync even matter with 144Hz monitors?
And they're fundamentally kind of missing the point of what G-Sync does, right?
So it's not a replacement. I mean, it's a replacement for V-Sync completely on or off.
And so even for an argument that I see on our comment threads a lot is,
well, if you have like a GTX 780, it doesn't even matter if you have G-Sync, right?
And it's not if you have a monitor limited to 60Hz,
but if you have like the ASUS panel that was demoed on, it will run at 144Hz.
Well, now you can run anywhere from 30 to 144 frames per second without any visual tearing.
And you don't lose any graphical fidelity. You can turn things up a whole bunch.
Whereas before you would have to worry about, well, if this one scene
or this one part of this multiplayer map draws my frame rate below 120Hz to 60Hz,
now you don't have to worry about that, right?
And so at the NVIDIA event, we don't have to get into it again, those developers,
Carmack, who doesn't really work at it anymore, but Carmack and Anderson and Sweeney
kind of got up there and said, this is perfect for us
because it prevents us from worrying about these really specific edge cases.
And I think that should mean a lot to gamers, even if it doesn't yet,
like they don't understand it until they see it.
Yeah, it's one of those things where I think a lot of the new technologies coming
are going to suffer from the same problem, whether it's G-Sync or Oculus or motion inputs,
even something like the new Kinect from Microsoft with the new Xbox One,
where they can show people using it, and we're going to see that same stupid commercial
that we've been watching since the Nintendo Wii launched
of families having fun and dancing around in front of their TVs.
But beyond that, how do you actually get people to understand these technologies
unless you can put it on their head or put it in front of their face?
It's tough. 3D was the first time that that really came to the forefront for me.
It was like, you can't show off 3D vision and how cool it looks
or how cool it doesn't look over video or on text
or me sitting here talking to people watching a live stream.
You've got to go see it in person, and G-Sync is the same way.
We had Tom Peterson out here doing a video with us,
and we had two of those G-Sync monitors for four hours in the middle of the night
trying to figure out a way to show video of these panels
that actually made them look good instead of bad.
Things like a 60-hertz capture camera can't show what it does.
What we need is a variable.
We need a capture card with a G-Sync module in order to show it.
What if you had one of those?
How much would I love it if NVIDIA produced,
to go along with their whole FCAT initiative,
if NVIDIA produced a capture card that helped us benchmark FCAT?
That's an interesting thought.
Or what if a capture card vendor that was already working on DisplayPort stuff
started to integrate some of these things
so that we could capture variable frame rate technology?
That's an interesting thought, Linus.
Wouldn't that be cool?
Then people could actually sit and watch it and understand the difference.
Well, no, it still wouldn't help them, right?
Because we could make variable frame rate videos,
and then what do they play it back on?
Hold on a second.
Unless they could, just a sec.
We could at least show the tearing being eliminated.
So if nothing else, we could at least capture tearing versus non-tearing.
How do you display a 42 frames per second section of a video
on a 60 hertz refresh panel?
It's tough. It's got to be end-to-end.
You could record it and capture it.
You could measure performance on it.
And then I could present fancy graphs to you.
But unless you have a variable refresh monitor on your desk,
that also has a variable refresh capable video player to read these files,
then it's not going to work.
You know, I had thought about it as far as,
hey, this would be a great tool for us
because the way that capture cards are implemented now is expensive
and not even going to be useful for much longer
because G-Sync is going to completely turn everything on its head
in terms of how you can actually capture an output from a graphics card.
And then I hadn't actually gone as far as,
okay, could we use it to present it to other people?
But no, you're absolutely right. It wouldn't work at all.
Keep in mind that the capture-based stuff
or even FRAPS or whatever method you use,
even though if you turn V-Sync off and measure performance that way,
you'll still see the performance that you would see on a G-Sync monitor.
So if I'm running 122 frames per second or something like that
and if I have a G-Sync monitor that can capture that or present that rather,
then I will see 122 frames per second in that instance.
So you'll still be able to measure performance
with either FCAT capture, FRAPS,
but you won't be able to show the kind of experience you get
on these different panels.
So NVIDIA has a tough job ahead of them to,
you know, go to any gaming show, any LAN party,
and I bet you they'll have two dozen G-Sync monitors sitting there
for people to walk up and try and try to get the word out about it.
Even then, it's a drop in the bucket.
I mean, you look at how NVIDIA has marketed something like Shield.
We have a new intern here that we were covering the Moga Power.
Are you familiar with Moga Power?
I don't think I am.
Okay, so there are little Bluetooth controllers that have a mount on them
that's actually quite ingenious so that you can put your phone on it
and you can use it to play games.
And then it also has a power bank in it,
so you can power your phone at the same time to extend your battery life.
So it's like Shield Lite,
and then when you factor that in with that someone has got NVIDIA Game Stream
working with a custom Android hack,
it's actually kind of compelling.
Okay, so we were talking about it,
and I was talking about sort of the quality of the controller
and the overall experience,
and I showed him an NVIDIA Shield,
and he's like, oh, wait, I can do what with that thing?
Oh, that's cool.
I mean, he's a mainstream guy,
and NVIDIA hasn't figured out that they have to actually spend money
on actually reaching more people than the 200 people
who are at any given LAN party because it's just,
I mean, the amount of money it costs them to do something in a LAN party
versus if they set up a kiosk, I don't know,
in a friggin' mall or something is just, they're reaching the wrong people.
They're reaching the people who are actually likely to be watching this show,
listening to you and me talk about how amazing it is,
and probably at least have some inkling of how great it is,
whereas they need to reach the mainstream people and they just don't get it.
I agree. I agree. It's tough.
Yeah, I guess that was pretty much all there is to say about that.
So let's move on to some Twitter questions here.
Brad Sculio asks, is G-Sync only NVIDIA?
And I guess an extension of this is, is Mantle only AMD?
Yes and yes, I guess for now.
For now?
So G-Sync was invented by NVIDIA. They have patents on it,
and the module that gets installed in these monitors is built by NVIDIA currently.
So they said some fancy words like, hey, we'll consider the licensing model,
but if you know NVIDIA, no, it's not going to happen.
They're not going to allow this to work with AMD graphics cards.
If AMD wants a G-Sync like technology,
they're going to have to work on their own or partner with monitor vendors.
Mantle, on the other hand, AMD in the past has a more open approach to their technologies,
usually because, to be quite fair about it,
they don't invest as much resource financially or personnel-wise
to invent these technologies like NVIDIA does,
and they kind of hope that the community and the industry kind of comes to these standards.
You can look at physics acceleration, you can look at 3D implementations on monitors
and I think they'll try to do the same thing with G-Sync,
but Mantle could be supported by NVIDIA,
but I think more for pride issues than anything else that NVIDIA will likely not implement it.
I mean, just based on the storied history between those two companies,
that was my next question.
Is there any possibility in your mind that NVIDIA will adopt Mantle?
No.
No.
I would say the best case scenario is Microsoft pays attention,
gets off his ass and fixes DirectX to be more Mantle-like,
and they create like a new API that is maybe backed by Kronos instead of Microsoft,
and now both of them will support that,
but maybe it's a wink-wink, nudge-nudge,
it's actually just Mantle, but now it's renamed, it's not an AMD technology.
That seems much, much more likely.
That's a possibility I had not actually considered.
Very interesting.
All right, our next question is when do you think DDR4 is coming
and what are your thoughts on DDR4?
DDR4 will be in the next enterprise platform,
I guess Haswell-E I think will have DDR4.
You know, I've been through a lot of DDR transitions,
I don't expect a whole lot.
CPUs don't take advantage of memory bandwidth improvements like GPUs do,
and especially, it's happened to every instance,
DDR when it launched was slower than the top-end SDRAM,
DDR2 was slower than DDR, DDR3 was slower than DDR2,
and I expect DDR4 will be slower than the top-end DDR3 memory when it launches,
so it will take a little while for it to kind of catch on and adopt,
but it's not going to solve any major bandwidth issues that the processor has.
Maybe it'll improve integrated graphics performance,
so that would be a big plus.
Yep. I mean, I guess the three things, guys,
are higher latencies, higher bandwidth, lower power consumption.
Yay. Oh, higher frequencies, so four things.
So it's more of the same.
Okay, I think that already does exist.
Just got an SSD for my system, best upgrade yet.
Yes, you're absolutely right, Liam, it absolutely is.
Here's an interesting question. Why don't we make this our last one here?
Travis asks, what is in your personal rig, Ryan?
Okay, so that's an interesting question, because I have, I guess I have two, right?
So I've got the one at the office that I would say I spend the most time on,
but I do the least gaming on.
My system at home that was the primary gaming PC for a while was,
it's a 3770K with probably 16 gigs of RAM in it.
I don't remember which one it is now, and it had a GTX 580 in it,
so it's not even that new.
But people always give me crap for this, because I don't, like my primary PC,
you know what I do on it? I write articles and make graphs.
The benefit of doing what I do is that literally as I sit here talking to you,
I can look at three computers that have an R9 290, a GTX 780, and a 780 Ti in it.
And I can just go to any of those anytime I want to game,
and thanks to cloud saves, it all kind of works magically.
But that's kind of my cop-out answer, I guess.
Fair enough.
Well, thank you so much for joining us.
And okay, I'm going to say this again.
I promise next time, next time there will be no technical difficulties.
Is it me, maybe? Am I causing this?
I don't want to be your bad luck omen here.
I really think that it is actually you. It's the ginger factor.
His laser eyes shot all the way over here.
You can feel it coming through the internet wires.
Through the tubes.
All right, thank you so much, Ryan. We'll talk to you soon.
And hopefully I'll see you at some kind of an upcoming event
when someone invites us all somewhere nice.
There'll be... I hope I don't have to go anywhere until CES.
So I'll see you then.
I'll see you there. Yeah, okay, that sounds good.
All right, take care.
All right, thanks guys.
All right, well that wasn't too painful.
Oh god, it kind of was.
Oh, you had to hold the connector in place the whole time.
And I had to like...
My knuckles were white the whole time, so I had to hold it.
Oh, brilliant.
Okay, so now do we have to go back to how it was?
Give me a sec.
Oh no, what's happening?
Oh no, what's happening?
Okay, this like murdered the mixer.
Hopefully nothing actually died.
Is it on?
It's on, it's on. Okay.
My Twitch chat's not updating anymore, so I have no idea what's going on.
All right.
I think they can still hear us.
So let's keep on going here.
So this is a not...
Oh, no, actually we have our sponsor.
Well, you do that. I gotta go run and...
Apparently there's a note with the cake that says
information and instructions and more names and stuff.
Information and instructions.
Or...
Okay.
I got a whole bunch of different messages about...
More information about the cake.
So I'm gonna go look at it.
Okay, but it's probably all a lie.
I mean, you know this, right?
Okay.
Well, cool.
So anyway, guys, our sponsor today is squarespace.com.
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I'm just actually gonna switch over to my screen right here.
They have a new blog template that is Galapagos.
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And they have ones that are optimized for different things.
So that was a new blog template.
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Guys, linusmediagroup.com, which is our company website.
Not the Linus Tech Tips forum, but like our more official company website.
It's hosted on Squarespace and before we were using...
Hold on, I'm actually gonna try and load it up here, but...
I hate this keyboard!
So before we were actually using a WordPress blog
and now that we've switched over to it,
it was super easy to set up.
So you can either just use their build tools
or you can instead decide to
tinker around in the HTML and CSS and whatever else you want.
And it looks like probably everyone's hitting it right now
because it's a little bit on the slow side.
But, no matter how hard we've hit it during our streams,
it never goes down and it does eventually load.
So we're just gonna go ahead and try to refresh that.
Because that's one of the things that they do do,
is they ensure that your site doesn't go down
because they have like a flexible sort of bandwidth option.
So, wow, wow.
This is actually the first time that it's ever not worked incredibly well
and gone incredibly quickly.
I guess all 4,000 of you are probably hitting it right now.
Oh, no, I think it actually has to do with the internet connection on this PC
because I'm not even able to...
Twitch chat isn't even updating.
So alright, well I tried to show off our site,
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Speaking of free trials, we actually had a contest
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and then tweet us with a hashtag
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So that's pretty cool.
And I'm not sure what's going on here,
but I'm gonna try disconnecting from the phone
and then reconnecting so that hopefully
I will be able to pull up some articles here
so we can actually continue this stream.
So what's our next topic?
But...
Welcome back!
I was totally reading something else.
Let's go with the videogamer.com article
about the Assassin's Creed producer
saying that PC optimization, quote on quote,
oh, hey, I'm re-tethered to the phone,
I think the problem was I wasn't...
Did you read the whole thing?
I'm sorry? Yeah, I read the whole thing.
Okay, okay.
Okay, so...
Update! Ubisoft has provided clarification on the comments made.
So the original allegation
was that a Ubisoft staffer
basically up and said, nope,
the game's just not real optimized for PC
and we don't care.
But that was not actually what they meant.
What they meant is that
in the development process
they used the PC
as an experimental platform to test things.
So they don't test the performance immediately,
they test all the technologies immediately,
they test the performance later.
So if we add a bajillion particles
every time a cannon fires,
let's like, let's try that.
And then if it doesn't perform well enough,
okay, we'll just throw a couple more graphics cards in there,
let's see what it looks like when it's rendered in real time.
So they use the PC to experiment
and then they optimize down from there.
Which is a 100% acceptable way to use the PC
as a gaming platform, so
once again, the gaming community
takes something out of context and blows it out of proportion.
On the other hand, I mean,
compared to, you know, how it looks on the consoles,
our lower-end PC really didn't run Assassin's Creed 4 that well,
so compared to Battlefield 4,
where we were able to achieve similar image quality
with an entry-level PC and the two consoles,
I would make the argument that Assassin's Creed 4
is not as well PC optimized.
So there's also that.
Just throwing that out there.
A little bit off-topic from that
is that if you read the wording of the original report,
it does kind of sound like that,
because it doesn't really specify at which time.
Yep.
So it could be how the question was phrased or whatever,
but you do have a point,
but at the same time,
we couldn't make it look better or perform better,
but it's not that much worse either.
No, it's not that much worse,
but we'll let you guys be the judge of that,
because we'll be uploading the footage later on.
So here was an article posted on the forum by E. Chando.
The original article is from The Verge.
It's extremely long, though, so
E. Chando conveniently gave us the highlights.
So basically, the copyright lobby
has been asking for
a curriculum to be added in California
to teach elementary schoolers the value of copyright
and dangers of piracy.
It's called Be a Creator, Respect the Person,
Give Credit, It's Great to Create, and Copyright Matters.
Teachers are instructed to tell the class
you're not old enough yet to be selling your pictures online,
but pretty soon you will be,
and you'll appreciate if the rest of us
respect your work by not copying it
and doing whatever we want with it.
The committee presented the curriculum in September
for pilot testing in the current school year,
but as you might expect, teachers' associations are skeptical,
saying the modern curriculum is already full to bursting
without the addition of copyright awareness.
Couldn't have put it better myself.
Don't copy that floppy.
Yeah, don't copy that floppy.
This video is amazing, and
conveniently it has been downloaded
and then re-uploaded to YouTube
so we can all enjoy it.
So guys, if you haven't seen Don't Copy That Floppy,
you should probably check it out.
I didn't realize when I first clicked on it,
but I hadn't seen it before,
that it's over nine minutes long,
and it's like this terrible 90s rap.
No, it's great.
It's terrible.
It's great.
It's terrible.
You don't understand the 90s if you think it's terrible.
No, no, no.
I mean, I know that it's awesome,
but it's terrible.
But it's awesome.
It's hard to watch.
It's awesome.
Whatever.
Moving on to our next topic, also related to the MPAA.
So here's another one.
Security at theater.
So the MPAA wants advanced anti-piracy measures
at movie theaters like night vision goggles.
Movie theaters aren't already making not enough money.
Yeah, so they should be equipping their staff
with night vision goggles.
So they have updated their anti-piracy guidelines
for movie theaters to basically do a couple of things.
So number one is they're offering a $500 bounty
to movie theater employees
who are able to catch people pirating,
which honestly, like if,
oh man, I guess the person would have to be taken
into custody, so there'd be no incentive
for people to like team up.
To make it like a-
And like try to collect $500 bounties.
What if you got someone that was underage though?
Yeah.
Oh, I wonder.
So you get like, get all your siblings
and like catch them all copying movies and like-
Because if they're underage, they can't go to jail.
Anyway, so-
And it won't stay on their record.
So there's that.
Some pre-release screenings and premieres
have employees often equipped with night vision goggles
and instructed to closely monitor movie goers.
In some cases, members of the public are asked to hand over
all recording capable devices, including phones and candy.
Not that candy can record,
but just because you might be able to like conceal a camera
within a bag of candy, I suppose.
Or because they're trying to sell it in the concessions.
My biggest thing is that they can search you.
Yeah, so they can search you now.
Which is like, what?
Prohibiting the use of equipment that can record audio,
video, or even take photographs.
I mean, how extreme is this?
Does anyone actually watch cams?
Like, seriously.
I actually never have.
Like, okay, shyness, shyness.
Like 100%.
Okay, out to all you viewers.
Guys, hit us up on Twitch chat or tweet us with this.
Do you- Okay, you don't have to admit you're a pirate, okay?
But what you can say is, I would watch a cam.
You've probably encountered a cam rip at some point or another.
They're terrible.
They're just terrible.
Like, I was somewhere.
Someone was watching a cam not that long ago,
and within about five seconds, I was like,
this is unwatchable.
Why would you even watch the movie like this?
I'll wait.
Like, I'll wait and I'll watch it in a way-
Like, just because I can't watch it in the theater
because it's like $14 each and I have a baby
and it's hard to get out,
doesn't mean that I'm going to watch it like this.
Yeah, and like, I'm usually only going to watch a movie once.
Usually.
There are some movies that I've watched.
Like, Serenity, I've watched 10 bajillion times.
Firefly, I've watched 10 bajillion times.
But I'm usually only going to watch something once,
so if I'm going to watch it, I'm not going to watch a cam film.
I'll just wait and watch it later
because it's going to be way better in every way.
Yeah.
Sound too?
Yeah.
Oh my god.
Sound on cams is terrible.
Practically worthless.
Terrible.
Someone says, something about cam girls.
Okay, that makes sense.
Okay, well that, a cam, would be more appropriate
because I'm not expecting the Blu-ray of like,
you know, Angie flirts a lot
or whatever her name would be on the other end of a cam show
to, I think we've gotten derailed a little bit here.
Oh yeah.
Okay, so it seems like, yeah, it seems like there's a fair bit of
yeah, well, I'll wait for Blu-ray or I'll rent
or I'll wait for Netflix or some kind of reasonable quality
that isn't terrible.
I mean, to me, honestly, the video quality isn't even a big deal.
To me, the one that bothers me is the sound quality.
The audio is always terrible.
I just can't hear a bloody thing anyone's saying and what's the point?
Yeah.
Alright, so let's talk about the topic that, unfortunately,
I would have...
I thought you and Ryan...
Ryan's gonna have some interesting thoughts on this once he looks into it
but this is actually fairly recent news.
LSI is talking about their new generation controller.
So it's gonna have Sanforce branding.
It's Sanforce 3700 series.
I actually reached out to ADATA already and I'm like,
Hey, are you guys gonna have this?
And they're like,
Hey, yeah, don't worry about it.
Soon.
I'm like, yes.
So what this is gonna do is it's going to build on the same technology
that we've had for really an awfully long time with Sanforce 2
which is their ability to compress and decompress data on the fly.
This has a couple of effects.
It improves perceived performance.
Well, real performance, really.
And number two is it actually makes your SSD last longer
because you're committing less data to flash.
So the less you write to your SSD, the longer it will live.
And at the time when it was launched, it was revolutionary
because it also was able to take slow NAND flash
and squeeze unheard of performance out of it.
Well, now we are past the point where the flash itself is actually the bottleneck
and we are on to the point where SATA 36 gigabit per second
has become the bigger bottleneck.
Well, this, this, my friends, is how Sanforce 3, as I'll be calling it,
is going to address that because it features both a SATA 3 interface
and a native PCI Express interface on the same chip.
So instead of having kludgy bridge chip solutions and like,
sort of we'd have PCI Express to SATA bridge chips
and then those running to RAID controllers
and then those running to what are essentially a bunch of normal SSDs
laid out on a PCB with SATA wires running through the PCB.
I mean, that's what they were.
That's what products like Revo Drive were.
We're going to be looking at instead a controller that can actually address
a massive amount of flash in a highly parallelized fashion
over a much, much faster bus.
I mean, even if I recall correctly, PCIe Gen 2 1x is 500 megabytes per second.
So I believe PCIe Gen 3 1x would be 1 gigabyte per second.
Can you look that up so that I'm not quoting the wrong numbers here?
It might be 500 for Gen 3, but maybe someone in Twitch chat wants to correct me.
I'm talking out of the, I'm talking out of my butt here.
I'm having internet issues.
Okay. Well, at any rate, okay.
So basically it's much, much faster than SATA 3 is capable of being
and you'll be able to plug that directly into a PCI Express slot.
So there's going to be a variety of different flavors of it
intended for entry level.
We're actually going to go back to the post on the forum from Digital Nav.
So there's going to be entry level and that's going to be optimized
for things like MSATA or NGFF sockets.
And then there's going to be mainstream client,
which is going to be like more advanced mini PCIe type of implementations.
Then there's enthusiast, which is going to be two and a half inch
or, you know, PCIe cards.
And that's going to support up to PCIe 4x and full power fail protection.
So that's really cool.
And then all the way up to enterprise products.
So this is extremely exciting because it's been quite a while
since we've seen significant innovation in SSD performance.
I mean, we've been limited by SATA for quite some time now.
I mean, Samsung's done some cool stuff with things like their RAM caching.
Yeah.
But...
We've had, like you kind of just said,
we've had for a long time a new SSD comes out and it's like,
oh, it's basically the same as the last one.
Okay.
And then people just kind of like stopped releasing new SSDs.
For a while there it was like every few weeks.
Oh, there's another one.
Oh, there's another one.
Yeah.
That went on for a long time.
I mean, that wasn't bound to be sustainable anyway.
No, no.
We all should have known that.
Yeah, my internet's down again too.
So is yours back up?
Mine is like semi up.
I'm trying to find...
Here it is.
Right there, right there.
I need Gen 3.
Oh, okay.
PCI Express 3, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Yep.
Oh, I was right.
Awesome.
So about one gigabyte per second for a 1x link.
So if you have a 4x link, we're talking four gigabytes per second.
All right.
So we're about to have our best EA moment in probably months.
This makes me...
I don't know why, but it makes me more happy than it makes me angry.
Really?
This makes you happy?
So need for speed rivals is locked at 30 frames per second on the PC.
This was posted by Pumit G, whatever you pronounce that.
Really EA?
Like really?
The best one is when he brings it beyond 60 FPS.
Okay, so hold on, hold on.
So there's a total biscuit video about this, which is amazing.
And so beyond limiting the game to 30 frames per second,
that's probably the worst carryover I've ever seen from a console port.
Aside from press start to continue, where they don't even bother to change the word to enter.
I mean, this is terrible.
So get this.
If you hack the config files and manage to get it running at 60 FPS, the game runs twice as fast.
It's a commit.
Not hack the game, okay.
I'm using it colloquially, okay?
I haven't seen that since like Commander Keen, okay?
Seriously EA?
He got it faster than two times as fast too.
I don't think he actually got it to 120 FPS, but he got it pretty high, which is hilarious.
And the rest of the game doesn't run as fast as you do either.
So if you do this, you're like way faster than all the other cars that you're supposed to be chasing.
But you can't control yourself because you're going so quickly.
So you just kind of like smash into everything.
It's hilarious.
EA is basically programming for DOS.
Like are they not familiar with the timer that's built into Windows to prevent this?
I just, I gave up with Need for Speed once they, once like the original crew that was making Need for Speed left.
Because I feel like it lost all of its, like it doesn't feel like the same game anymore.
And ever since then, like just all the bad seems to be coming from it.
And that just, that reeks of all the bad.
Like why?
Ridiculous.
Anyways, let's move on to this topic.
Okay, so PlayStation 4, they're all defective.
They all have dead HDMI ports or something.
Once again, once again, people overreacting a little bit.
But, check this out.
This is actually kind of, here we go.
I mean, it seems like no console launch can exist without, without some kind of, you know, epic hardware failure.
So, here's a, here's a vine.
Oh no, yeah, okay.
So basically Xbox, Xbox ones are scratching discs.
That's a new thing.
There's actually a huge warning right on the front of it that says don't move the console while, you know, anything's going on.
Then there's a, there's a fair number of posts.
What I suspect, so okay, so Microsoft staff, we're terribly sorry for the problems with the disk drive.
Make up for that.
We'll be replacing the games so you can buy them digitally.
We'll be doing this, we'll be doing that.
I'm pretty sure that's not actually a real thing.
Pretty sure he just wrote that.
Oh, sorry.
Don't quote that as Microsoft staff.
No, not quoting, not quoting that.
So, I mean, we've seen all this before.
Xbox 360, well that's what, that's what they did with Xbox 360 is they just, they dealt with the games.
So, we'll see.
Probably something similar.
I really don't think it's the end of the world.
Well no, this quote, if you read the whole thing, goes on to this continuing.
Yeah, no, no, to make fun of physical media, which shouldn't exist anymore.
But, whatever man.
I don't actually necessarily care about the disc.
I just kind of want the box.
Well then you can just 3D print a box.
But then it's not as good.
So we'll come full circle.
3D print a box.
Yeah, we'll come full circle to physical media being irrelevant and then relevant again.
I'm cool with that.
You just make your own.
Digital download and then make your own one.
Anyway.
You can digital download the game, which is literally digitally downloading the 3D printable game.
Yeah.
You can digital download board games.
Yeah, exactly.
There you go.
That'll be a thing.
And someone's like, these are 40 gig games.
It's like, okay.
That's a thing.
That's why that might be coming back around again actually.
People might need discs again because it'll take too damn long to download games.
Okay, that's fair enough.
That's actually because internet infrastructure isn't going as fast as it should be.
Okay, but on the other hand, it's not like Steam hasn't figured this out.
Pre-download.
Be ready to play when it launches.
Yeah, but games are still getting bigger.
People are pre-downloading COD and just being like, what?
I can't even figure out why COD's so big.
Because they're lying.
I swear to God.
They're lying about their RAM.
They probably have just gigantic empty files.
Like, seriously.
I think someone's going to find all the ginormous files that claim to be textures and aren't.
Yeah.
Because...
I wouldn't be surprised at all.
Because the six gigabyte thing was complete crap.
Okay, or there's going to be like 25 gigs of DLC that turns out to be like...
It's already in the...
Several million skins for the dog.
That's what it'll be.
Dog armor.
Any type of dog and then any type of mix-free dog.
And then any color of all of those things.
Gold-plated dog.
Yeah, gold-plated dog.
300 headshots getting gold-plated dog.
I'm clearly having a bit of a rough day here.
So I don't know how much longer we're going to keep going.
But this is extremely exciting.
So here is a...
Oh, go away.
Wow.
Much gold plate.
Okay.
Very achieved.
Okay, there we go.
Can't say that, man.
So, posted by C.Gutman on XDA developers.
This is the GitHub project and it is very, very cool.
So with Qualcomm SoCs as well as with Tegra 4s,
although I can't think of many Tegra 4 devices where this would be relevant
because so far they're all made by NVIDIA and support GameStream anyway,
but there are five updates now on a project that has additional controller support.
So you're not going to be limited to just the controller built into the Shield
or whatever controllers happen to be compatible with that particular device.
So Moga Pro, PS3, Xbox and Shield controllers are working with it.
We are going to have GameStream to your mobile devices.
Now, there's still some restrictions,
so you're still going to need a good wireless implementation.
So if you have something like an S4 with AC wireless
or an HTC One with AC wireless, that's going to work well.
And they're able to add multi-threaded H.264 decoding
to the point where as long as you have something that's reasonably high performance,
so Tegra 3 is working okay but not well enough,
you are going to be able to use NVIDIA GameStream.
That's actually pretty freaking cool.
Which is amazing.
So you can get a demo of the in-progress APK.
So we've had success with low H.264 decoding latency on Snapdragon S4 Pro 600 devices
like the Nexus 7 and HTC One.
Now we just need everything to have HDMI out.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Isn't that cool?
I had briefly read over this.
Because I want my phone to be able to do that.
That was my whole thing.
I believe I already brought this up with you.
So as much as I don't think Shield is the future,
I think streaming technology is the future.
And this actually ties in very closely to...
I really hope I posted this in the doc because I don't see it right now.
Steam's group where you'll be able to try their game streaming feature.
But I don't think so.
Steam streaming.
Stream streaming.
Stream streaming.
Your stream will be clean.
That should be a thing.
Stream streaming.
That should be a group of guys on Twitch should be stream steamers.
Twitch should have stream steamers.
And they should go around to different Twitch channels and clean out all the spam.
So guys, check this out.
Steam in-home streaming is a way for people with a good home network
to seamlessly play their Steam games between two computers anywhere in the house.
The feature will be available for early feedback in an upcoming beta test
and beta participants will be randomly selected from members of this group.
So join!
Go join this group so you can try it out.
Because it sounds absolutely amazing.
They have a Q&A on the page,
but it looks like one of the things that had me most excited about SteamOS
is actually just going to be a thing
that Valve's going to be trying to bring to their platform in general.
How freaking exciting is that?
Because there is no reason why a gigabit ethernet connection couldn't handle 1080p streaming,
which means that unless you have a 4K TV, which you don't,
I really don't think anyone watching has a 4K TV.
Someone is probably going to say they do just to troll you,
and then there's going to be the one dude that actually does,
and he's going to try and say it,
and everyone's going to assume he's trolling and tell him that he doesn't.
See there.
So there's no way that...
There's like seven people that already said they do.
There's no way that I can be wrong.
So anyway, you'll be able to stream 1080p from your powerful gaming.
I mean, this is what I wanted.
Personal cloud to me is the future.
I mean, being able to build your own cloud storage,
your own cloud gaming, your own cloud...
Ah, so cool.
And we were worried about it.
Okay, I don't know if you were necessarily worried about it,
but I was kind of.
The whole cloud thing being external.
I pretty much had a hard phone on it from like day one.
Yeah, yeah.
Did I say hard phone?
You definitely said hard phone.
Hard phone on it.
I mean, what does that even mean?
I am so tired.
That's why I disagreed with you.
Because I was like, whatever that is, it's awesome.
So, sure.
But yeah, I wanted private cloud forever,
and I was worried because everything was going external cloud.
Then the NSA came out with all the jerks,
and then everyone was like, oh, private cloud.
I'm like, yay.
I wanted that anyway, so that works for me.
What are you going to hard phone next?
I think I'm just done here.
Thank you guys very much for watching the WAN Show today,
and putting up with the technical difficulties
that we went through as usual.
I'm sorry that I couldn't be a little bit more together today,
but it has been an extremely trying week, actually.
We had a shoot on Monday that was an on-location shoot,
and then on Tuesday, I don't even know what happened Tuesday.
Tuesday I was catching up.
Last week was a short week due to Remembrance Day.
Short weeks kind of demolishes.
We didn't have enough time to get everything done in the first place.
Oh, Chris has Hangouts.
Slick will do Hangouts.
I'm just going to leave after I do my apology
for being terrible at streaming.
Hangouts?
No, no, Chris says...
See, Chris has build blogs.
Build blogs? Okay.
On Hangouts.
Okay, okay.
We got it.
Hard phones?
Is that a hard phone?
I mean, Wednesday, Wednesday, I don't know what happened.
I think I filmed things, and then yesterday,
oh, I spent most of Wednesday and Thursday trying to get HDMI capture working,
and then I'm going to spend most of tonight editing a video,
and then I'm flying out tonight or this morning.
We'll have to do Xbox One.
Yeah.
Which has been creepily watching us this whole time.
The red lights really throw me off.
Yeah, it actually is like...
The three dark, dim, deep red lights that are in the middle of the Kinect
are just creepy.
Good thing it's not two.
It's like two and then one underneath.
But if you drag down, it's a Diablo symbol.
Diablo 3.
Like, if you were able to...
Yeah, I think I'm done here.
Dun, dun, dun.
Here, use this.
For what?
Oh, does it even have Office on it?
I don't know, but I have HDMI on this laptop.
Oh, well, will it work?
Probably.
Let's find out, shall we?
Let's have some more technical difficulties on the stream.
Bring on the technical difficulties.
All the technical difficulties.
Guys, maybe next week, maybe next week,
we should do our campaign where we ask for money to buy equipment
that will allow us to not have to deal with this all the time.
Maybe next week we can not be putting the whole set together.
Five minutes before the show.
Was it five?
Well, I don't know.
I'd like to hear what these guys think in Twitch chat.
Would you guys rather we bring you the image quality comparison right away?
Oh, the giveaway.
Oh, I still need to...
Yeah, everyone's asking about this thing.
Well, you do build logs.
I'll figure that out.
Hey, it works.
No problem at all.
Hooray.
Okay.
Yeah, are you guys happy that we had sort of technical difficulties with the stream,
but we're going to bring you our image quality comparison right away?
Or would you have rather waited for that?
Someone says, do the image quality comparison now.
Do it now.
I don't know where I'm supposed to get this.
Get in the chopper.
Probably that thing.
So people are happy.
They'd rather that we have a terrible, terrible show.
So, okay.
The cake.
I went down...
Okay, what's going on with the cake?
Maybe I'll eat some cake.
I looked on the cake.
I looked at the sides of the cake.
I looked under the cake.
I didn't look in the cake because I was going to wait until you had an opportunity.
There's no names.
There's nothing.
I'm not sure.
I don't have any of the infos.
Wait, so we do or we don't know who sent it?
We don't.
Well, I know it was Chris and that group of guys.
It was the mods and a few other guys.
But I don't know exactly who it was.
Alrighty then.
I'm sure one of them can tell me.
I don't know if it's for a reason more than the fact that it's a fan, which is a NOCO fan, which makes sense and is awesome.
Yeah, I think it's awesome.
That might just be the extent of the reason.
But I don't know if there's...
I don't know.
I'm really not a big fan of this laptop.
The blooping sound that's happening?
Well, I'm trying to mute it and the function key seems to just not do anything.
It's just like, oh, well, pressing F7 does something.
Apparently there was a reason.
For what?
For talking to me right now.
Oh, there's like a...
Okay, well, I'll go get that once I'm done finding my giveaway winner.
You should do build logs of the week at some point here.
I'm trying.
You're trying?
Are you trying?
Are you trying?
Are you trying?
Is this your new form of trolling?
You just say the same word over again?
I think the real question here is, am I trying?
But are you a heart phone?
Like trying patience?
Heart phone?
Are you a heart phone?
Heart phone?
I'm always heart phone.
Oh.
Oh, it's a birthday cake.
Apparently Linus Tech Tips is five on the 28th.
Oh.
I was like, okay, I don't think it's anyone's birthday, but that's cool.
Ah, it's Linus Tech Tips' birthday.
I didn't even know.
It's funny because someone tweeted me asking if I had anything special planned for like
the fifth anniversary of Linus Tech Tips, and I was like...
We're five?
No.
I don't even celebrate my own birthday.
You can definitely tell me and him remember like anniversaries and stuff.
No, well, okay, I remember them.
You put it in a calendar.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you don't remember it.
No.
So apparently it was from Dave, StrMape, Dim, Ghost, Wailer, Erdino, Glenn, Ixy, Jay, Knight,
and Fox.
That is awesome.
Thank you so much, guys.
And don't let that yawn sound unappreciative.
I do appreciate it very much.
I'm just extremely tired.
And yeah, I was right.
Wailer sent it.
That's awesome.
Wailer's the Canadian one, so he ends up having to actually send all the things.
I might load up all these Squarespace sites and then just let everyone see them first
before I go ahead and pick the winners.
So go ahead and do build logs.
I still don't.
It has to...
I didn't do build logs this week.
I didn't have any time.
How long does it take to download?
Seriously?
A minute to download?
Well, we have other topics, so you can find something to talk about.
Okay.
What exactly are you doing?
I'm working, okay?
I'm working on things.
Okay, give me a second.
What other topics do you have?
There's some quickfire topics.
I'm not sure I'm looking.
Apple dictionary definition of gay includes stupid?
Yep.
What?
Is that better or worse?
That's very debatable, isn't it?
If they take out the part about homosexual, if they take that out and only leave in stupid.
Well, no, because you can have multiple definitions.
So for example, the F word, not the that one, but the that one, the other one.
There's multiple definitions.
So it's derogatory this, bundle of sticks and twigs.
I think there's at least a couple other ones.
And it's actually used as like...
Or was at some point.
Yeah, but in certain areas.
So like if you were to take the word gay and you were to say, you know, homosexual archaic
or something like that.
Right.
And you were to update...
See, I wish they would do that though.
But the problem is that I know gay people that say I'm gay and I'm like, okay.
No, not me, but like they are.
I just can't communicate right now.
I shouldn't even be trying to talk about something this touchy.
No, you said that right.
You know gay people that say, you didn't say...
Quote, I'm gay.
Yeah.
So, so I kind of look at it like, okay, well, if you use it that way, then we can't really
just say, well, it doesn't mean that anymore.
I'm sorry.
Your word is gone.
That's true.
You have to make a new word.
Yeah.
It'll have to be like puklu or something.
Yeah.
It'd be a perfect word for it.
Hello, sir.
I'm puklu.
Well, I don't think most people...
I mean, maybe in the future people can just, you know, not have to worry about concealing
their pukluness.
We live in Canada.
Pukludity?
I don't think it's a pukludity.
I don't think people have to hide their pukludity in Canada.
Not as much.
That's for sure.
I don't know anyone naturally that hides it.
That is...
Whoa.
Well, how would you know anyone who...
Yeah.
See?
Yeah.
But most of my friends that are puklu are very open and happy about it.
There's no issue because...
Are we starting something here?
I'm trying to start something here.
I hope not.
No, we shouldn't start this.
I didn't even get it much thought.
Why are we starting this?
Why aren't...
What is the spelling for puklu?
Puklu?
Well, P O O K L O O.
Okay, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's only one way to spell it.
Well, because people are spelling it other ways in the chat.
No, they're wrong.
So I thought we might as well give them the proper dictionary spelling of puklu.
Do you know how the word quiz came to be?
No.
Someone bet someone else that they could invent a word.
And the way that they achieved it was they hired a bunch of school boys to run around
town writing this word everywhere.
And it became a word.
People started using it.
Too scary.
That's actually hilarious.
So, if we get all of the people watching in the chat to go write this word all over forums...
Except that I don't actually think that the word puklu is an appropriate one for what
we're talking about.
Because it just sounds kind of stupid.
So come up with a better one.
Well, I'm tired.
I'm tired and cranky.
Do you have build logs in the week yet?
What do you do?
No, I don't.
What are you even doing?
I'm working.
What is this?
Are you working?
Why does anyone even watch this stream?
Well, technically we're after hours, so...
Are we?
Is this an after party?
So, legally no.
Legally no.
Yeah, exactly.
Whatever.
Don't pretend you started work at 9.30 today.
I did.
Did you?
Earlier than that, actually.
I know some days when I'm not here you kind of set flex hours.
Some days you never show up on time either.
Just saying.
Why do people watch this stream?
Well, I know why they watch the real stream.
I don't know why they're watching what we're doing right now.
Why are you people watching what we're doing right now?
Are we truly entertaining?
Or is our married couple-ness just frustrating to behold?
Well, I'm done now.
I believe that the...
Well, no.
Screw you.
I'm going.
Wow.
That's how it's going to be.
The first one, I don't think the name of the guy would be super happy with Pukulunus.
Pukulunus?
Pukuludity?
Pukuludity.
Sorry.
Project Pukuludity?
Pope.
Pope?
I thought the new pope doesn't care.
I thought that's a thing.
Oh yeah, he's like cool and stuff.
Yeah.
Okay, nevermind.
Sorry.
So this is a pretty boss computer.
You know how you get to change your name when you become the pope?
What?
You can't?
No.
Pope cool.
Well, I think there's a list of names that you can pick from though.
Like, you know how there's been a bunch of pope benedicts?
Did you know there was a pope linus at one point?
That's pretty cool.
Yeah.
Maybe it's bound to happen again.
This computer is actually pretty ridiculously deep.
Is that four pumps?
Seriously?
Does that look like four pumps to you?
I can't even see on your screen.
What a terrible screen.
I hate it.
Yeah, my screen's really bad.
Uh, yes.
Awesome.
That's amazing.
That is beast.
Part of the problem is that Linus and I have both not seen this before.
Yeah.
But that is kind of incredible.
I really like his runs.
They're really straight.
And if you can see, there's his logo.
Yeah, you might say he's got mad runs.
He just water-cooled all the...
He's got the runs.
He's got them in his computer.
I got it.
You might even say his computer runs, like, really well.
Oh, my God.
I'm sorry, P0p.
But this is probably...
There we go.
There's some better shots of his actual MOBA.
That's some pretty intense water-cooling all the things he's got going on.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's incredible.
What a great build.
Normally, I don't like builds where people can't really seem to decide on a color scheme.
That's pretty cool.
Yeah.
I like it.
Yeah.
That worked out pretty well.
I think he's got...
I can't really tell.
I think he might have two loops.
He has to, because of the color, but I don't see the rest of it.
That's the problem.
So, I think some people with this whole Squarespace website giveaway were not taking it entirely
seriously.
No, I'll show you later.
Don't worry.
It's coming.
Okay.
Moving on.
Big Leelo with Obi-Wan Shinobi.
That's an amazing name.
Oh, my God.
That's an amazing name.
Yeah, I know.
Obi-Wan Shinobi.
Wow.
I love it.
That's so good.
X58 board.
Really?
Oh, it's clean.
Huh.
I think it's just an overall 3950s.
Yeah.
Older rig with an update or whatever.
Whatever.
It looks really nice.
I love that res.
It's very clean.
I was so stoked with my T-Virus when I first got it.
If you move the mouse around so they can see what you're looking at.
Then that helps.
I love how your demonstration was just like, bump, bump, bump, bump.
I couldn't see what I was doing, smart guy.
Oh, man.
Yeah.
Super clean.
I like how he mounted his SSDs.
I've wanted to do something interesting with the mounting of my SSDs for a little while
because I've always just kind of hid them behind the motherboard tray, but like how
he has it.
I like having them front facing.
And if you can do it kind of stealthy like that, it looks really cool.
There we go.
There's a better shot of it.
So right here.
Just cut through right there and just push the cables through.
Looks super nice.
This looks like he had a hard pipe and he bent it, which is also really cool.
I can't remember the tool that you have to use for that, but it's pretty awesome.
I think I've seen this one.
Ah, was it this guide or a different guide that they did the same kind of thing and they
actually showed the technique on our website, so that's pretty cool.
I don't know if I can decide.
Some of these are actually surprisingly good.
This one I think is just a template, but...
Yeah.
No, no.
Some of them are actually surprisingly good.
Maybe do one more topic while I continue the review.
The 290X birthday cake.
Speaking about cake with fans and stuff, this is a 290X birthday cake.
Yeah, I know, right?
That's awesome.
It would have been even better if it had arrived right when we were talking about that.
Yeah.
What would have been pretty cool?
Yeah, never mind.
He shouldn't have named it.
He should have said it's an AMD birthday cake and then he should have let everyone in the
comments rage about which card it was.
You know they would.
Because they all look the same.
I don't know if it's long enough to be a 290X.
That might be a 270X.
Okay.
I want to start a discussion.
Someone should actually measure it out and figure out if it's long enough.
I don't think we have enough for...
Okay, well if we assume that the PCI bracket is to scale...
It's accurate, yeah.
Then...
You have to...
It looks like there is one under there.
Or they did an incredibly good job with it, to be honest.
Because look at that.
Oh no, I didn't mean the PCI...
I meant the PCI bracket.
Oh, but yeah, we could go by...
Oh, yeah, that does look pretty good, doesn't it?
Your display is terrible.
I know, I know.
Can you turn the brightness up?
Oh, well that'll help.
I can't even tell if that's...
It looks real.
No, no it's not.
The spacing is not even.
I don't think it's real.
I couldn't tell if the spacing being not even was a problem with the camera.
That's good.
But yeah.
Alright, can I have the HDMI cable back?
Yep.
Alright.
So, we had a win your Squarespace website contest, and the idea was that I'm supposed
to pick the winner, but some of these are actually surprisingly good.
Before you keep on going with that, apparently our folding team is in the 60th spot.
Apparently we blasted through a million points, which is pretty aggressive.
So if you guys want to join up on a folding team, ours is rising really fast.
Yay, Firefox!
Have you noticed it's been incredibly unstable lately?
Yeah, I moved back to nightly and it's running better.
Again, that seems to be a consistent thing.
Like, what the hell?
It's been crashing on me all over the place lately.
Yeah, the pre-alpha is more stable than the release version.
It's weird.
It's brilliant.
I think it's a Flash problem.
What were you guys actually doing all this time?
I hate Flash problems.
Because every time I kill Flash, it stops freezing.
Okay, but...
Like, no one else has those problems, I know.
I'm just saying.
No, I'm not saying no one else has those problems.
I'm obviously having problems too.
I mean, no other browser.
Oh, right, okay.
So, we had a few submissions.
Actually, I hadn't had any until I tweeted out about it being like,
Hey, yo dog, we haven't had many submissions,
so you can still have a pretty good chance to win.
That's my friend.
Is it?
Yeah.
I guess I can't really vote on this.
Oh.
Like, I went to school with him.
Cool.
Alright, so this one...
Well, where should we start?
Come on, Firefox, you can do it.
I believe in you.
Not a single tab loaded yet.
No, is this Firefox or is this your tether?
Oh, it's probably the tether.
Oh, come on.
Win stream is win.
Yeah, I know, right?
Okay, so let's try a more different network.
Okay, and then let's see if this one just is like magically working now.
I don't think the wireless on this laptop is very good.
There we go.
I don't think the laptop on this laptop...
Well, there's aspects of it that are good.
Yes.
The processor is good.
That is true.
Made by Intel.
Yeah.
So what, you're implying that there's not a whole lot to go wrong?
What are you, some kind of Intel fanboy?
Since when has the processor been a major problem in a laptop?
Unless it's like ancient or way underpriced.
Alright, so John Welker here.
This one's pretty rudimentary, so I don't think we're probably going to go with this one anyway.
Sorry to offend you.
Okay, so the problem seems to be that function lock is enabled.
That's why it's doing unpredictable things.
So it just says don't panic, and you can see that he's using a template that has stuff here that you can switch between.
I'll go ahead and click on that.
Can you go to code? Is that possible?
Maybe.
Is it going to load?
Well, the issue is that I keep not being able to even like click on things properly.
Yeah, I know. I think our internet connection is down again.
Brilliant.
So back to the tether.
Yeah.
Sweet.
I don't understand how the wireless could be so...
We weren't having issues with the wireless on this before, were we?
No.
Yeah, I was going to ask you about that.
No, I'll talk about it later.
Okay.
Oh, holy balls. Okay.
So I think you have to hold function to get like F5 to do something.
Or I could just go up here.
Oh yeah, because the Nexus takes a while to like decide that...
Are you worthy?
Yeah, are you worthy of having the internet?
Should I actually give you the benefit of my wireless? I'm not sure.
How warm is it running?
I am a Nexus.
You know what though? Battery life while tethering is actually not that bad.
People have been raging about the battery life, but Brandon Zane is super happy with it.
I've reached the end of the day with as much as 50%.
Yeah.
Which isn't as good as the Z1, but the Z1 had a whole other host of issues that I wasn't a huge fan of, so...
This guy's getting pretty old, and I'm sure...
Seriously? S3 is old now?
Well, with my usage it's getting a little bit weathered. I use it a lot.
And for how long I've had it, and how much I've used it, and how much I've like full drained the battery, and like bad things...
Now that CyanogenMod's on it, it does pretty good.
I can get to the end at like... I've used it a fair amount today, and I'm at 73%.
Like that kills what it used to be.
It used to be I wouldn't use it all day, and I'd get to 4 o'clock and it'd be dead.
Right.
So like, I'm pretty stoked actually.
I can easily get to the end of the day with a good amount of percentage left.
Yay! TouchWiz!
Yeah. I like... I miss my screen shopping.
I think EA made TouchWiz.
Probably.
It's probably locked at a 30 FPS.
Locked at 30 FPS.
If you unlock your phone to 60 FPS it runs way too fast.
So yeah, the network connection is so slow...
Can you email me all of these links? I'm going to open them on my laptop.
That might work.
For some reason I think this is working. Let's see.
Is yours still rocking?
Let's see.
Rocking the internet!
Yeah, that's better. No, you have to go...
Well, that's the thing is I've already like...
Voted everything up on here and like entered all of the stupid captchas in order to look at these sites.
That's a really easy caption. It's not going to stop anything.
I know, I don't even know why it's there, but like...
Dude, it even loads better on mine.
What?
Oh.
Wait, what?
Oh, now I'm confused.
What is... What are they doing?
What are they doing with this browser right now?
Nightly phones, man.
I can't go to...
No, I think it worked before.
I think code is dead though. I don't think code is a working link.
Oh, okay. Well, at any rate, that's not going to win.
So let's move on to the next one.
This one might win.
So they saw someone built a little like e-commerce website that presumably sells farts.
So the Slick is $300.
The Toot is $19.99.
And Rolling Thunder is $39.99.
So that's a bit of an upgrade over the Toot.
And finally the Rev Head, which is a picture of an engine, is $45.
You can own your own if you click on here.
And that is the same page.
Okay, I think they get marks off for that and also the fact that Chris clearly didn't take this seriously at all.
Next up, we've got... This one didn't load correctly because my internet wasn't working.
It looks like my internet is working now. We were trying to click on a dead...
Is it now?
It's working slightly better, I think.
That's supposed to load a card from the game that I don't remember the name of that's made by Blizzard.
Hearthstone.
Really? How many hours have you spent playing Hearthstone?
A fair amount. I've played a lot more playing WoW and it has Hearthstone in it.
I should have known.
This is a block field.
See, these are not loading correctly. Guys, this is...
I like Joy. I know him too. I know all the people that submitted websites.
Okay, they're supposed to look more like this, but the internet is a terrible thing.
Okay, so maybe what I'll do, guys, is I'll tweet out the winner later because this just clearly isn't working.
I'm going to go get the cake.
Are we still going to be streaming or are we stopping?
I don't know.
Are you coming back?
I don't know.
He's not sure. Okay. Well, I'm going to try and grab URLs for these things so we can at least freaking look at them.
Oh, that loaded now. So there we go.
This is where I'd put my apprenticeship if I had one.
What is this supposed to be?
A thing to do about hardware.
Oh god, portfolio.
Not a thing. Software list.
That's pretty cool.
Ah, you can hyperlink the words.
That would make things easier.
Now that you left, your computer's working fine.
Awesome.
It just doesn't like you anymore. I'm going to leave this image on screen.
I know, but he just has them so hot.
Probably.
Your pillow is, like, gross.
Thank you for that.
Are you wanting some cake, Brandon?
Who would say no to cake? I brought a plate and a knife, by the way.
Yeah, it's fine.
Alright.
I love how you didn't bring, like...
There's only one plate, because you apparently don't believe in dishes.
No eating into... Well, I ran the dishwasher. You looked in the dishwasher.
You ran the dishwasher, and that's an excuse for not having clean dishes?
No, they're all clean. They're in the dishwasher.
How does your mind even function?
They're in the dishwasher clean.
In the dishwasher clean. Why would they be clean if they were in the dishwasher?
Because I haven't taken them out yet.
Why haven't you taken them out yet? If they're clean.
See? Logical... No, no. Because if they were clean, you would have taken them out.
So clean makes it instantly out?
So if it's clean and in the dishwasher, in your mind, it is not clean.
Well, if dishwashers work the way that I think they should, then yeah.
You should take the...
I'm very tired.
Please, don't hurt yourself.
I should not be operating heavy machinery.
Oh, that's all the receipts that you owe me?
Please don't hurt yourself.
I have sliced the cake.
Nope, nope. I can handle this.
Or don't hurt anyone else. Don't do that.
Is it ice cream? Don't do what?
I thought you were going to lick the knife.
No, I'm not going to lick that.
What are you even doing?
I don't know. I'm trying to hold this. Can you hold this?
We both just offered.
Don't kill anyone.
Hold on. I'm trying to cut a piece.
No, I can do this.
I just want some cake.
You didn't bring anything to eat it with.
What makes you think I need anything to eat it with?
Oh, God.
It looks really good.
I have no idea.
A Noctua cake.
Noctua cake.
Hopefully it tastes better than Noctua fans look.
Okay.
So, I'll take this.
Oh, God.
Okay.
Here you go.
Why did you even need a...
Why did you even need a plate then?
For you.
But you didn't bring me any utensils to use.
So, it's not in any cleaner.
Why do you need them?
Here.
Thank you, Brandon.
Go to bed.
With who?
I need to work, actually.
Do you?
Yeah.
What are you going to do?
Are you like sensible enough to actually edit something right now?
Or should you just leave?
Oh, we're definitely still streaming.
Yeah.
That didn't stop.
Okay.
No.
I don't know.
You know, it's funny because people often criticize my unprofessionalism on this show.
And then you always say we're going to be more professional and then you ensure that
we definitely are not.
Every time we try to do something more professional, people say they don't like it.
No.
They just go back to the old way.
Not true.
Someone says they don't like it.
Well, it's because usually when we try to do something more professional, we fail because
we don't put any effort into it.
No, we put effort into it.
We don't put planning into it.
Or planning.
Yeah, planning is the problem.
Effort is not the problem.
Thank you, Brandon.
Why would you need a fork?
You know, it actually tastes exactly the same if you eat it out of your hands.
I don't think he knows that.
It might taste better.
If you have crappy forks, it could taste like that.
Mmm.
Oh, someone wants to know who won the Linus and Logan giveaway.
Yes, we have chosen a winner, but I haven't coordinated with him for the announcement
for us to do it at the same time yet.
So.
Sorry.
Why don't you eat the bottom?
Mmm, I don't really like the outside.
It's pretty heavy.
Like it's, it's like.
I think it's um, what do you call it?
And the brown stuff's kind of like gum.
It's like, I kind of want to call it, that's what it's pH.
pH?
What?
Acid?
No, it's like.
There's acid in the cake?
Well, probably.
Nobody can state, that'll be even more of a problem.
Well, there's probably some amount of it.
I meant LFD.
I know, but that's not what I meant.
You should probably have some right now.
Acid?
It'd probably be perfect timing, yeah.
Why not?
I don't think so.
Are you phone hard?
Are you hard phone?
Hard phone?
No, it was phone, not phone.
That's what I said.
I can't hear you very well because I'm tired.
Okay, so the cake's good.
What's this thing now?
I don't know.
It's not the most appealing.
It looks really cool.
Like, I think that's why they were able to build a fan out of it.
Yeah.
It's the same stuff that you do in cake box and stuff, like cake, cake.
I don't know what that's called.
Yeah.
It's like.
But it's like, pretty solid actually.
It's like the solidest, densest, like, sugar thing that.
Sugar and flour.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's probably it.
10 billion people are saying fondant.
Fondant.
Cool.
Someone says it's not fondant, it's marzipan.
Either way, I don't really like it.
But.
Oh, my wife loves this kind of stuff.
Does she?
So I'll take some for her for sure.
Perfect.
And I like that it looks like a fan.
Yeah.
What do we do?
Yeah.
Why don't.
We should have probably.
Taken a picture?
Taken a picture of it.
We can take a picture of it still.
We'll just photoshop in the rest.
Like, Edzle can do it or something, right?
Oh, my God.
You know, usually when I ask him if he can do something.
I have some idea that what I'm asking him is really difficult, but I pretend not to.
So that he'll try to appease me and help me with it.
Because I think if he knew that I knew that it was near impossible, he'd be less likely
to want to help me.
It looks like it might be fondant.
Fondant, perhaps?
Sure.
Why not?
Wow, that's weird.
Yeah, that's some creepy stuff.
Wow, I just dropped another piece in my lap.
That's pretty cool.
I'm going to like a family thing after this.
Is it also partially because you have no idea what he's doing?
Just like how you assume certain programming things are super easy when they're actually
super hard and you think other programming things.
Maybe I do know that they're hard.
Are super hard when they're actually super easy?
Yeah, it could be that.
I know some things.
No, not about programming.
I don't know anything about programming.
I was like, what?
I mean, I know some things in general.
I don't know much about programming.
You definitely don't know much about programming.
I'm just talking about whatever.
Linus, you said you would announce giveaways for the GTX 670 and the keyboard.
Yeah, that's the...
You already...
I already talked about that.
Hmm, apparently that's still on there.
Okay.
Well, I guess I'll head out.
I guess I'll have to come back tonight to get that footage.
Sweet.
We'll drive back out here.
That sounds pretty good.
You have cake on your shirt.
I have cake on my arm and on my hands.
And on your face.
I think we're done here.
You need like a cloth?
Nope.
Can I borrow your shower?
Yeah.
I'm going to operate the mouse with my foot to turn off the stream.
Why is this happening?
Why is this a thing?
Well, you know, we had that conversation earlier where I was asking, you know, when people
are swapping boss stories, do you tell stories about me?
So you're trying to give me stories?
I wanted to make sure you don't get one up.
It's called fondant.
Fondant, yeah.
Marshmallows and flour and sugar.
Marshmallows, flour, and sugar.
I've actually made it with flour and sugar.
It's extremely sweet.
Oh yeah.
A lot of sugar.