What is up everyone? Happy Friday and welcome to the WAN show! It's gonna be a very exciting show for you guys today.
We've got, of course, the big controversy this week. Why is it that YouTubers keep killing perfectly innocent companies?
How could they?
What did those companies ever do to these YouTubers? They're so cruel and awful!
We've also got an extremely special guest this week, the one and only Jim Keller.
I'll give you guys a bit of a longer introduction right after the intro.
Now Luke gets... I mean, I'm sure there's something else that's gonna excite the people.
He's trying!
I don't know, man. The spiffing Brits PC needed repairs?
Oh, you went right for...
What did you do?
What did my heart do to you?
Why did you feel the need to jab something into it and twist?
Build a questionable computer.
Did I destroy your company?
I think that's what you did.
I don't know about that.
And Boston Dynamics has a crazy new robot.
And of course, of course, in Boston Dynamics style, they had to release an absolutely psychotic video about it.
Oh, you're gonna say, of course, of course, and it's not gonna be a horse?
I missed the video, so I didn't know what it was.
I mean, they have a dog.
It's not a horse.
I just assumed...
It's more like humanoid.
I'm messing with you.
I know what it looks like.
I'm clarifying for the audience.
They need to know things.
I revolted.
They can still hear us.
I know, but barely.
It's this music.
The show is brought to you today by MSI, Squarespace, and Vessi.
I'm going to spare him having to turn red while we talk about his illustrious career.
But of course, our guest this week is the one and only Jim Keller, current CEO of Tense Torrent, co-founder of Atomic Semi, whose notable work includes.
And brace yourselves, because this is a bit of a list.
He was the lead architect of the AMD K8 microarchitecture and co-designed the x86-64 instruction set.
He was later the lead designer on the Zen architecture that catapulted AMD back to relevance and now more than.
He helped design the Apple A4 and A5, the company's first in-house SOC.
He's the former VP of Autopilot Hardware Engineering at Tesla more recently.
He left Intel in 2020 following a dispute.
We don't need to get into the exact details of that, but joined Tense Torrent as CTO the same year and became CEO in January of 2023.
In 2023, he also co-founded Atomic Semi, a foundry that's focused on designing and manufacturing low-cost fabrication equipment,
which is something I have to admit had flown under my radar and I'm definitely going to want to ask a little bit more about.
And without further ado, thank you for coming on the show.
There he is!
Hey, thank you so much and welcome!
I'm struggling to impede and smash your enthusiasm.
Pretty good.
I think we all do. It's okay.
Realistically, look, I usually have to sell it a little, but I am genuinely extremely excited to have you on the show.
They asked me when I got on the phone with your team because we reached out when we saw the dev kit that you guys have right now.
So this is on the Tense Torrent side.
And I was like, okay, obviously, whatever Jim's working on is probably cool as shit, so maybe there's something here.
And so I scheduled a call. It's just an exploratory call.
And they go, oh, well, you know, do you want to talk to Jim?
And I'm like, well, we don't really take guests on our show anymore, but yes.
We'll make an exception.
That would be great.
Wow.
I don't want to waste anyone's time, which is actually a big part of the reason we don't take guests.
We are notorious for starting our show anywhere from one to three hours late.
And we hate doing that to important people.
So without further ado, I want to get into some of the community submitted questions.
We announced that you were going to be joining us, and it would have been a huge disappointment if you weren't here.
But you are.
So Dylan asks, hey, Jim, I'm a junior computer engineering student about to start my first internship doing verification engineering at a big chimp company.
First of all, did I just say chimp company?
Anywho, doesn't matter.
The point is congratulations, Dylan.
He says, it's great to see how far open source has gone.
We even learned RISC-V in our introductory hardware course.
Oh, cool.
So first of all, I want to start with letting you talk about RISC-V a little bit,
because that's obviously a hugely important part of what Tense Torrent is doing right now.
And I guess I realized I didn't really talk about Tense Torrent at all.
So do you want to give us a short introduction to what exactly drew you to this company and to their mission?
Wow.
Okay.
So Tense Torrent is an AI computer design company.
We're designing a high-end AI engine and also a high-end RISC-V processor.
And I think, yeah, AI has gone through a lot of evolution.
And, you know, it started running on CPUs and then GPUs.
And then I think Google announced the Tensor Processor in 2015.
And we're building essentially an array of Tensor processors that's programmable with open source software stock that we released in January.
And then there's going to be a combination of AI computing and general purpose computing tied together.
And we decided to make a high-end RISC-V processor.
Our AI processor also uses little RISC-V cores, you know, to drive the execution of the big tensor processor.
And, yeah, so the RISC-V thing is really interesting because, you know, at some level, computer architectures are generic.
It doesn't really matter very much if it's x86, PowerPC, MIPS, Alpha, ARM, or RISC-V.
But only RISC-V is open.
And the Berkeley guys that started it were pretty good.
And the cool thing about open source, you know, we saw with Linux is when it's open source, a whole bunch of people can work on it.
And it's a much better innovation platform.
And it's a one-way door.
When people go from, you know, proprietary technology to open source, they literally never go back.
Linux killed literally all the proprietary Unix operating systems.
And I think solely RISC-V is going to take over the computing world, which is pretty fun.
Just want to say.
To your student friends.
Go ahead.
I was just going to say, if I'm one of those Berkeley guys, I'm putting Jim Keller said I'm pretty good on my LinkedIn.
Like immediately.
That's awesome.
Yeah, they're pretty good.
Well, yeah, I can tell funny stories about, like, you know, computer science in universities and computer science in high-end computer design companies.
They kind of work together.
And it's really interesting because a team of 100 people who work together for five years can refine that crap out of something.
Whereas students, you know, they get a project.
And sometimes without that much support.
And some of those projects are pretty good.
And some of them, it's hard for it to add up to a lot, let's say.
But, like, the branch predictors everybody uses came out of universities.
And RISC-V architecture, which is going to, let's say, dominate computing in 10 years, came out of universities.
And now there's 20-odd companies building RISC-V computers and way more using it.
Whether you did it on purpose or whether you did it by accident, you actually transitioned me perfectly into the second half of Dylan's question.
And this is really cool because he asked for getting into a higher-level architect slash designer position.
If you want to work on one of those teams, are you going to recommend stay in school, go for the PhD, or do you want years in industry?
What are you looking for?
I, well, so PhDs are really good for some people if you really have a research topic and you really want to go think really hard.
But if you want, like, I didn't study computer design in college.
I'm an electrical engineer.
You know, my major is first electromagnetic fields.
And then when I, my advisor ran the semiconductor physics lab.
So I learned about, a lot about that.
And then I took one logic design course and then got a job doing that.
And then I got a job at digital where I worked for a great architect, Bob Stewart.
And then computer architects, good ones, know about a lot of different things.
So I learned how to program, you know, do a lot to design.
I know about semiconductor physics.
I know a weird amount about packaging and, you know, signal integrity and all kinds of stuff.
And so if you want to be a computer architect, you should probably work on a lot of different things.
And most computer architects that are really good at it didn't do it in college, you know, as a PhD.
Interestingly enough, it's almost like a too narrow of a way to go about it.
PhD guys tend to be experts in something.
And computer architects tend to be, tend to be generalists, I'd say.
Yeah.
So you already kind of alluded to this one as well.
But William asks, I mean, you've obviously got experience on the ARM side.
You've got experience on the x86 side.
You've got experience on the RISC-V side.
William asks, how far do you think x86-64 can go?
I mean, you're telling me now, you're saying, look, RISC-V is going to be the future.
You gave that number 10 years.
I'm not going to hold you to it.
I mean, I can't promise nobody else will, but I'm not going to hold you to it.
Is that because x86 is out of gas?
Or is it because RISC-V has just got some kind of fuel that we're only just discovering the potential for in the engine?
Which one is it?
Neither.
So computers generically, you know, they fetch instructions, decode them, and issue them, right?
And the thing that makes the front end of a computer fast is how many instructions can you decode
and how well can you predict the instruction stream, right?
So x86 has a deficit in the sense that, you know, random length instructions are harder to predict,
but we sort of figured that out.
It's just harder to do, but it's not like a big limitation.
And then the execution engine goes fast because you have lots of parallel execution units
and out of order issue, which is generic to computers.
And then you have a good memory system with a really good predictor for where the data is coming from,
which has nothing to do with your architecture.
So I'd say x86 has a limitation.
So it's 16 registers, variable length instruction set,
and it sort of has a pile of old crud that nobody actually needs, but you have to build.
So it has a tax.
But computer performance is mostly today based on prediction.
And the number of predictors in a modern computer is crazy.
We predict, obviously, like where the instruction stream is coming from,
where the next branch is, the direction of the branch, call return stack.
We predict the width and grouping of instructions.
We sometimes predict the results of instructions.
So tell me this.
Where the data is coming from.
So it's all a prediction.
One of the, a follow-up question from William is, you know,
could we see cores using multiple architectures?
Could you see someone like an Intel or an AMD, an x86 license holder,
taking some kind of RISC-V architecture AI processor, coprocessor,
and using that for prediction?
Like an AI accelerant on a traditional, does it just not make any sense?
I mean, tell me.
If it's a dumb question, I'd love to know.
Yeah, it probably doesn't make very much sense.
So computers are very optimized around, you know, a particular instruction set.
Today, there's pretty good binary translators, and they keep getting better.
And binary translation from, like, an ARM instruction set to RISC-V is relatively easy and back and forth.
So you'll probably pick your general purpose computing architecture and then either recompile all the code or translate the code you need.
Like Apple switched from x86 architecture to ARM architecture.
They hardly missed the beat.
Nobody even noticed or cared.
That's great.
Well, that's the Apple ecosystem and software build.
But they could switch to RISC-V and nobody would notice or care either.
This is hilarious.
He keeps beating me to what my next thing is going to be.
It's all prediction, right?
So I just don't even...
Hey, it's all prediction.
Why do I bother talking?
Well, we live in a simulation, and a good simulator predicts everything.
So the next thing from William's question that I was going to focus on.
So he asked, okay, how far will x86 go?
Do you think ARM or RISC-V will replace it in the future?
Maybe we'll see using multiple architectures.
So that's all William's question so far.
I'm not taking any credit for that or blame.
But what I will take credit or blame for is this next one.
I was really focused on the word replace in his question.
And you brought up needing to recompile code.
And software is something that I feel like is a bit of an elephant in the room.
You know, when you talk about how fundamentally all processors are the same, essentially, it's like how many instructions can you process?
But while Rosetta 2 was an absolute marvel, to the point where just a few years ago, I wouldn't have even shortlisted William's question, let alone asked it to you.
But now that I've seen what Apple was able to do with that x86 to ARM transition, and what Qualcomm is claiming that they're doing on their upcoming Snapdragon chips with Windows on ARM, I feel like anything's possible.
And that word, that replace word, can I expect to go back to legacy programs, right?
To stuff that is that tax on x86, that tax on Windows.
And whether it's through AI or whether it's through on-the-fly recompiling, can I expect to replace the gaming PC that I have today with something RISC-V that will run, and I'm not going to ask for 100%, but if I asked for 90% of the software I used to run, do you foresee that?
Yeah, of course.
Of course?
So more and more software is written in more and higher-level languages, like recompiling C programs in Java and Python and you name it.
It's getting easier and easier.
Like, the architecture mostly doesn't matter.
Now, what matters is on a given architecture, like we found this, we started building, like, a server stack for RISC-V.
And when they went from Intel to AMD to ARM to RISC-V, each time you port software, it gets easier to do.
And the hardest port, by the way, was Intel to AMD, even though they're both x86, right?
Really?
And that's because there's a whole bunch of proprietary software in the server stack that was actually Intel proprietary.
So you weren't, which, by the way, they weren't giving out the port.
So they had to rewrite a bunch of stuff, but all the new software is in C, C++, it's clean.
So porting ARM was easier, right?
Porting the RISC-V is pretty easy.
The thing you find is, like, the tool chain maturity, like somebody built a binary with some set of switches,
and then you link that, and somebody mislabeled one of the header files,
and then you have to be an expert to figure out why this thing didn't work.
But the actual porting of the software is not the hard part.
Can I interject?
RISC-V ecosystem uses GCC and LOVM, and they're really mature compilers.
Like, they literally use the same compilers on the back end for all the architectures.
You mentioned there the server stack for RISC-V.
That's a huge deal, and I know there was the struggles with the Intel to AMD transition
and that hampered AMD, a bunch of stuff.
It's going to be a big problem solving the server stack thing.
How is that going?
I know you guys are working on it.
I know some other companies are working on it.
Yeah, it's going pretty good.
So, and again, this is one of those.
So Amazon did a really fun thing.
So in AWS, they put Graviton in there.
And first, they ported some of their own applications.
So, and Amazon's pretty good at putting a gun to somebody's head and saying,
you will go, you know, port the software and get it running.
And then they said, yes, sir, and they did, you know.
But then they put it up on the web and said, hey, if you want to, you know, port your stuff to ARM,
it's 30% cheaper, whatever the number was.
And a lot of people said, sure, that's easy.
It's JavaScript anyway.
Who cares?
Right?
And so people started porting it, and the more people ported it, the better it got.
And it's easy to tell if the application, and they made it pretty generic.
So I think what you'll see is, like, heterogeneous data system.
So you'll, so you have a cloud, and there will be some Intel servers for the dinosaur code.
And then there will be ARM and RISV for stuff that's already been ported.
And there will be a price difference.
And then people will go, you know, where they need to.
Yeah, keep converting.
Like, nobody cares about IBM 360 code or VAX code or Sun code or, you know, HPUX code.
Like, it's, it's all gone.
And, and, and, and you won't care about the games that you ran 10 years ago, because there'll be better games.
They'll just emulate them, or they'll AI emulate them.
Like, that'll be the really funny thing.
You'll say, hey, I want to go play Super Mario Brothers.
And you'll talk to a computer and describe Super Mario Brothers and play a little video of, of, of, you know,
YouTube video from the 80s, you know, that played Super Mario Brothers, and it'll emulate the whole thing.
And you'll think it's fine.
That's kind of terrifying.
I can tell you, there's a, there's a lot of gamers watching this right now that are going to be really unhappy about that.
But we're going to move on.
We're going to move on, guys.
No, some of them are going to be really happy, because now they have these games that are going to get Pong from this, you know, the 80s and shit.
And they'll be able to, like, train an AI agent to play perfectly.
Nintendo's litigating already.
Space Invaders, all the stuff that we used to play at bars.
I can hear Nintendo's lawyers from here.
Yeah.
Carol asks, as a junior IC design engineer, I often wonder how to stay on the bleeding edge in the semiconductor industry.
Recently, I discovered Intel Power Via entirely accidentally through a YouTube video and blamed myself for missing it for almost a year.
What is your advice for keeping up with the industry besides just, I don't know, creating new technology yourself?
Make sure you work someplace where they're doing new stuff.
Wow.
Okay.
So this is a recruitment interview now.
A lot of places.
Yeah.
They're hiring.
Sure.
We are hiring.
No.
So you build a technology like a CPU.
And, you know, at first it's new and, you know, it's got a lot of problems.
And then you start refining.
They get pretty good at it.
And then the management teams typically go, well, it's really risky and expensive to do a new one.
What if it's worse?
Right?
And then you start refining.
And what happens is people get in smaller and smaller boxes.
Whereas when you do new projects with, like, a new team, everybody does a little bit of everything.
And you have to go solve new challenges.
And when you do a new project, you never use an old CAD tool or, you know, you sort of aim forward.
Whereas, you know, I was at Tesla and we talked to vendors of a bunch of our chips.
And half of them couldn't do a small tweak to the chips they had in production.
They've been shipping them for a couple of years.
Well, was it the knowledge that was missing?
And they didn't have the CAD tools?
No, they had the database to run it on the fab.
But they couldn't update it.
Right?
And it was...
So if you're a young engineer, make sure you're working someplace where they're doing new stuff.
There's lots of new stuff going on.
You did it again.
You led me right into my next question.
This one's from me.
So, again, I get full credit or blame if it's a stupid question.
And I've always wondered this.
My layperson brain, you know, looks at a new innovation, you know, a new generation of chip,
whether it's from an Intel, an NVIDIA, a Tense Torrent, whoever, right?
And I look at it and I go, okay, but really tell me this.
This idea you guys implemented, where did it come from?
You know, how much of that generational improvement is, A, we didn't think of it before,
versus, B, we needed to try it first, but we went small before committing big,
versus we totally thought of it, we totally knew it was a good idea,
but the process node technology, for example, didn't allow it.
We had other priorities.
Like, how much of it is A, B, or C?
I want to know, right?
Like, 3D vCache.
It's all of them.
Okay.
It's really weird.
So, I mean, in the platonic reality, everything already exists, right?
So, we don't actually live in that world.
There's literally an infinite number of possibilities.
Most of them are bad, right?
And so...
Thanks, Dr. Strange.
It's true.
Yeah.
So, that's a problem.
So, there's one thing, which is, you work out a bunch of, you know, architect,
you're making a new CPU, you have a bunch of ideas,
you say, these are really solid, but I want to make it, say, a wider issue.
But that causes you to have to go rebuild the entire cache and fetch system.
And then, the more instructions you fetch, the better your predictors have to be.
And some predictors scale just by making them bigger.
But sometimes, you need a better algorithm.
Like, the simple branch predictors we started with were fine for years.
But if you're trying to keep 500 instructions in a reorder buffer and never flush the pipe,
it has to be so accurate, it's unbelievable.
Now, some of those things were invented.
Now, here's a funny story, which is, Intel ran a competition for the best branch predictor.
They published the results, and one of them was in Wikipedia.
And when we first started doing Zen, we needed a really good branch predictor.
So, I looked it up in Wikipedia, flew over to meet the guy, and paid him for a patent.
You can't make this shit up.
Now, the mathematical, so it turns out there's math under these kinds of predictors,
which is a little related to how neural networks and AI work, right?
And so, the initial predictors was sort of do what you did last time,
and then the better version was keep more track of the history of what you did before and use that.
But at some point, it started to look more like a computation of, you know,
there's this space of paths in the program,
and can you map, compress that space of paths to something useful
and then predict which paths you should follow on,
which is related to a field of mathematics.
And then it wasn't really possible until you had enough transistors.
So, Moritz-Law gives you more transistors every couple of years.
And so, there's this little, and then there's a trade-off,
like in the short run, maybe I'll make this bigger because it's easy,
but I can't just keep making it bigger.
So, I need to find a better idea or do something sophisticated
and then take advantage of all the transistors.
Like, it's a combination of things.
And then every time you build a computer, you'll learn a lot about doing it.
You continue the performance model, software continues to evolve.
And there's some things that used to be a bad idea,
but they're not a good idea and vice versa.
So, it's, you know, it's complicated.
Let's shift our focus.
Just to publish stuff, you know, like people don't realize
how much information is out there.
There's 100,000 people building faster computers.
Let's shift our focus.
And some people know a lot about what's going on.
Yeah, go ahead.
To AI.
Because obviously, that's your next big challenge
that you're taking on right now.
And it's, I've got actually a number of different,
you know what, I'll go with one of the ones from our audience.
I've got kind of an adder to this one.
Charles asks,
AI is set to disrupt the global economy in ways
that we've never experienced before.
Not in our lifetimes, maybe never ever as a species.
What do you see as your role
in guiding an economic future that includes AI?
And then my follow-on here is,
as a key contributor, potentially, to this upcoming change,
do you feel a personal responsibility
for shepherding AI in a responsible direction?
Or do you kind of go,
well, look, that's the software guy's problem.
I just build the platform that it rides on.
Like, what's going on here in your mind?
Well, if you're an historian,
you know, the human race has been radically disrupted,
you know, a dozen times in the last couple hundred years.
You know, automation is kind of wild.
My father used to tell me
it was the fractional horsepower motor
that automated all the factories.
You know, electricity generation was huge.
You know, everybody talks about the printing press,
books, being able to read,
college educations, highway system.
It's a lot, right?
And then Kurzweil says, you know, progress accelerates.
And so it's one thing for something to happen
like once a generation.
But we've gone through mainframe,
any computer workstation, PC, mobile, internet.
Internet, yeah.
You know, cloud computing, you know,
always on, always connected.
A lot of that's in my lifetime, man.
Like, what is going on?
This is a lot of accelerations in one place, right?
Now, I'm a technologist.
I know how to build computers.
And we, like, my part of it is,
I really don't think the world would be a good place
if only the super-rich corporations had big computers.
Right?
I think AI technology should be available
to as many people as possible,
that the software should be as open as possible.
I really like the fact that some people
are publishing really good AI models.
We decided to publish our compiler stack.
As you know, like, the core of the TPU compiler
and video stuff is proprietary
and not accessible to everybody.
In terms of managing society,
I don't believe individuals are the right answer to that.
I think this is a collective effort,
which needs a lot of people to think about it.
Also, but on the flip side,
in most of the transitions we've ever had,
the doomsayers have been wrong.
Like, we keep solving the, you know,
how does society and people and individuals
work together to solve our technology problems
and the balance of power between all the factions?
You know, so, you know, I have some concern about it.
I have a belief in human progress.
I think, I like the open source world.
I like open technology.
I like products that people can build and afford.
I'm not really into the $1 trillion computers
that only two people can afford.
You know, so my 10 storage mission is partly,
like, how do we make computers cheaper
and how do we make them more open?
And we're licensing our technology
to a bunch of people to build their own products.
And, you know, I think that's part of the democratization,
I'd say, of AI and software in general,
which I'm a fan of.
So, tell me this.
I mean, AI is clearly,
it's in that stage right now.
It's like it's a toddler, right?
Like, it'll do something one day
that impresses the hell out of you.
And then it'll be, you know,
running to greet you when you come home.
And it'll trip and nail its face on the floor.
And it's got a big nosebleed, you know,
the five minutes later, right?
Like, it's clearly stumbling around,
looking for its footing,
but you see the potential, right?
You see what this thing's going to grow up into.
How harmful do you feel like
high visibility AI fails are?
The humane pin, for example,
is something that we're going to be talking about
later on in the show
has generated a ton of mainstream buzz.
And, I mean, that's obviously,
there's some recency bias there
that makes me bring up that
versus, you know,
talking about some of the,
okay, like the $30 million heist
that was facilitated by machine learning,
powered deep fakes.
There's clearly a lot of,
a lot of FUD around AI.
And do you think that sort of
damages our progress in the long term?
Or is it all just a blip?
Yeah, it's all a blip.
Like AI has already been through
several hype cycles.
It's going to go through more hype cycles.
You know, the history is
usually the big first movers
don't become incumbents.
Like nobody heard of Google
and Facebook and Amazon
before they became big.
You know, it was IBM,
digital equipment,
Sun Microsystems,
they're all gone.
So, like,
there's going to be multiple blips.
There's going to be,
you know, both funny and,
you know, somewhat scary,
you know, issues.
But it's,
you know, the human race
is pretty big and resilient
and there's lots and lots
of smart people.
And, yeah, well,
it's going to elaborate
out all over the place.
You know, it's happening
as we speak.
Am I worried about it?
I am definitely curious.
It's going to be a wild ride.
Okay, you did it again.
It's like the last 25 years
have been wild.
You actually did it again.
Are you sure we're not
in a simulation?
Because the next thing
I was going to ask is...
No, no.
Here's the really funny part.
Okay, here we go.
Like,
if you were going to build
a simulation,
you would build in
a bunch of things
that, like,
let's say,
limit the computation you need.
Like, the speed of the light's cool
because you can't really see
what's going on over there
because there's a limit.
Like, things don't interact
all at once.
And the uncertainty principle
is really cool
because when you look
at something really closely,
it gets a little bit undefined.
We live in a...
Here's my favorite part
of the universe.
We live in a universe
that's governed
by three principles.
The uncertainty principle,
the incompleteness theory,
and the unproveability problem.
So, it's uncertain,
incomplete,
and unprovable.
If you were building
a simulation,
those would be
some pretty good rules
to put into it
because that would massively
limit the amount
of computation
you have to do.
Okay, so what I was
going to bug you with then
is, I mean,
NVIDIA very publicly,
very loudly,
dropped 10%
of their valuation today.
And every time, right,
every time something
like this happens,
you get people
on both sides going,
no, no,
it's real,
it's real to the moon.
You get people
on the other side going,
it was a bubble.
They're talking,
whether it's
dot-com bubble
or whether it's
web 3.0,
or they're pointing
at some other hype bubble.
What is...
Both companies are bubbles.
Yeah, can both of those
things be true
was my question.
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's like,
that's capitalism.
Somebody said,
oh, that company's
just kicking the can
down the road.
And somebody else said,
duh, that's how
companies work.
So what does stability...
There's no stability.
Okay, there's no stability.
Okay, then...
Well, there's a
dynamic stability
in the sense that
there will always be
100 top companies.
But those companies
change continuously.
Like, the myth is,
oh, the, you know,
the super rich
will always be rich.
That's mostly not true.
The super big companies
will always be big.
That's not true.
Like, there's virtually
no companies
that are 100 years old
that are still viable.
Speaking of...
So everybody's got
their day in the sun, so...
Okay, speaking of which,
you're at the helm
of a company now.
My understanding is
this is your first time
in the CEO position.
Is that correct?
It is.
Okay.
So I was going to ask you,
with that knowledge, right,
like, one of the
really famous quotes
from someone,
I can't remember who
because I'm terrible
at names,
but a really famous quote
that I read at one point
was that good leaders
lead a company,
great leaders
put the company
on a path
such that
when they leave,
it becomes better
than it was
with their leadership.
And, you know,
you just said it, right?
Like, there's very few
companies that are...
It sounds like
wishful thinking.
Yeah.
Sure.
Okay, but, well,
hold on, hold on.
Let me finish the question
before you predict
my whole thing
and answer it.
So, knowing that
a hundred years
is an awful long time
for a single company
to stay viable,
you know,
what does your leadership
look like?
Is it an in-the-trenches
leadership?
Is it a set-the-vision-
and-let-people-do-it leadership?
How are you finding it?
Well,
yeah,
I'd say I like to do both.
I like visionary leaders.
I worked in,
you know,
Steve Jobs' Apple
and I worked for Elon
and I learned a lot
from those guys.
They both,
they are both visionary leaders
but they're also
really hands-on people.
Like, Steve Jobs
worked on products
every day.
Now, I did,
he didn't work directly
with that many people
but I worked for a guy
I talked to him
literally a couple times a day,
Mike Colbert,
who's a brilliant guy.
And it was very
hands-on
and very knowledgeable
about everything
we were doing.
And, you know,
and Elon's the same way.
It's like,
he's a,
he's a wonder
in terms of how many
different technologies
and stuff
he can say useful things
and have insights about.
And he likes everybody
to be hands-on.
So,
yeah,
I'm into the hands-on thing.
So,
now,
I'm a believer
in what's called
collective creativity
and I like people
to own stuff
and feel empowered
to go do it.
I played the
fuck-around-to-find-out video
for my whole company
on it all hands,
maybe.
It's fun.
And that's,
you know,
so I like people
to get stuff done
and,
you know,
but also to own it
and it's okay
to screw it up
and fail
as long as you learn
something and try it.
So,
it's complicated
to be a leader.
If you just tell people
what to do,
they don't do
a very good job.
If you just pay attention
to vision,
that's not enough.
You have to be ready
to willing
to work with people
and find people
like good people
that work for me.
I have some really good
technical
and organizational managers
and they're pretty
hands-on people.
They know what they're doing
but they also know
how to give people
space to go do
something useful
and it's a combination
of things.
You got to do both.
Okay,
well,
tell me what success
looks like.
Pretends to earn?
Yeah.
Every year,
we get to build
better computers
and we build products
our customers like
and we keep going.
But here's a funny one.
So,
when I was at Digital,
we used to joke
that I would build computers
until the money ran out
and then the money ran out
and we went bankrupt.
So,
I went to AMD
and I told somebody
that joke
and they said,
Jesus,
the money runs out here
all the time.
We've been bankrupt
like three times.
Jerry Sanders just,
you know,
he goes borrow some money
or cuts some money
and it's a big deal.
So,
like,
like,
running out of money
was not an AMD problem
and when I went back
to AMD,
we were like months
from bankruptcy
and Jensen's famous
for telling everybody
they'll be bankrupt
in a month,
you know,
for most of the company's life
and so,
no,
like,
you build stuff.
Steve Jobs said
you're only as good
as your next product.
Right?
I believe that.
Like,
people build a great product
and they think,
now we've made it.
Not in technology.
No,
you go make a better product
or the market changes
or the customers
want something different
or you'll learn something new
or somebody else
learned something new
that you didn't know about.
So,
yeah,
success for me is,
you know,
I want a team
that's,
you know,
engaged and interesting
and we're building useful stuff
and we build stuff
that somebody wants
and then my expectation
is we'll have to go
build something else.
like,
keep going.
Of course,
we were going to have
some questions
about your time at AMD.
Hector asks,
you returned during
a challenging time
which you've alluded to
just now.
What was the morale like?
Where was it?
Was it fight?
Was it flight?
Resignation.
Ooh,
apathy.
So when I joined there,
so,
so,
so I'd worked at AMD.
I liked the,
like when I was in AMD
in 98,
99,
something like that.
I liked the culture of,
it's a teamwork culture.
Apple was much more
of a hard edge,
do the best,
excellence,
you know,
reward the top
kind of culture.
So I was,
I was intrigued.
I knew,
I thought they were going
bankrupt when I joined.
It was closer than I thought.
They had fired
a third of the people.
I think we ultimately
laid off over half
the company.
But the people
that were there
liked each other.
You know the expression
the rats leave
the sinking ship?
There weren't many rats
at AMD when I got there.
They'd all left.
And the people
that were there
were often technically
very good.
And they were good
to work with.
So,
and I thought
it would be fun
to figure out
how to turn
the company around.
Yeah.
It didn't work,
you know,
like I just get another job.
It's like,
like I wasn't really
worried about jobs.
So,
so I went in there
sort of knowing,
you know,
what's going on.
There were some things
that,
to be honest,
were worse
than I thought.
Yeah,
nobody talks about
the rat that
voluntarily swims
back to the sinking ship.
So I,
put us in your head.
I thought you were
trying to say that.
Yeah,
well,
I didn't.
I call a spade a spade.
Well,
I was friends
with Mark Papermaster
and I said
I wanted to lead
the CPU team
and they wanted me
to be the architect
and I thought
I could never
pull this off
if I'm the architect
and somebody else
manages the people
because building
a great product
takes a combination
of architecture,
teamwork,
organization,
all kinds of stuff
and I hadn't managed
like 500 people before
but I read a book
about it.
It's not that hard.
To be honest,
I read 10 books
about it
and I hired a consultant
that was excellent
about this kind of stuff.
Okay,
so it's a little bit
hard then.
Yeah,
10 books.
It took a couple of weeks.
All right.
It was really fun
and then,
well,
Rory Reed was CEO
at the time
and I told him
I had to cancel
all the projects
and start over
and he's like,
yeah,
nobody cares
if we have
like 50%
of the competition
or 53
and go ahead
and do it.
So I had a lot
of freedom
and then
a lot of people
had a lot
of good ideas
and it wasn't
just me
like,
so we kind
of unlocked it
and I'd say
a lot of people
didn't believe
in the project.
Some of them
didn't believe it
right until
it was finished
because they were
so used to AMD
losing.
Well,
hold on a second.
How does that happen?
Okay,
this is something
that maybe
does not speak to.
engineers are
very determined people.
They can work
on something
they know
is never going
to work
but they're
having fun
doing their part
and they just
soldier on.
Okay,
but hold on a second.
And maybe
this isn't
your problem
because,
you know,
you can tell
just from the
blunt honesty
that you haven't
spent a day
in marketing
in your life.
Oh,
I'm great at marketing.
I can sell you
your own shirt.
That's a book about it.
It's not that hard.
Okay,
but help me out here
because this is something
that blows my mind
is a product
will arrive
and us monkeys
who basically
are just like,
I don't know,
ooh,
ooh,
ooh,
ooh,
run game,
you know,
measure frames
per second
are sitting here
going,
hey guys,
you got the pricing
way wrong.
You're at 80%
of the competition
and you're priced
20% higher
and you get people
who presumably
talk to people
who worked on
the bloody thing
and they're like,
oh,
really?
And you just
kind of go,
well,
where does this
disconnect come from?
How could you
possibly be,
help me with this,
how could you
possibly be
an architect
or someone
working on Zen?
You got your nose
right up against
this thing
and you go,
I don't know,
maybe this thing's
shit,
I have no idea.
How does it happen?
How can we tell
and they can't?
I'm sorry,
what question
you were asking?
Okay,
the question you were saying.
Some of the people
working on Zen
up until the very end
you go,
yeah,
they didn't believe in it.
How's that even possible
because they're seeing,
they see the,
they'd worked on
the previous product
that wasn't any good
and you know,
they just assumed
this wouldn't be,
I don't know.
But they've got the same.
I would tell people
what we're doing
and they would look at me
like,
Jim,
we could never do that.
We're not that good
or something.
I don't know.
So here's a funny thing.
So a friend of mine
told me this years ago.
So every company
will tell you,
we only hire the best.
We're the smartest people
in the world.
And what he said
is that a hundred people
you can have a really
like excellent group
and a thousand people
you can be above average
and a ten thousand
all companies
are average.
Like it's true.
Just by statistics.
Now there's a question
about whether you lead
from the top
or the middle.
Like there's a bunch
of management theories
about this
and then there's,
there's a lot of problems
with how you do things
and then there's this
risk reward.
If you have an okay design
and you want to make
it ten percent better,
it might be really hard.
But if you do a new design
and you aim 30 percent
better,
you can do it.
But the risk of that's
way higher.
And so people make
bad risk reward trade-offs.
Like the existential risk
of being 50 percent
of the performance
of your competition
was a hundred percent.
And yet they were doing
low risk five percent moves.
Right.
So we said,
hey, let's build Zen
to be just as fast as,
I think as we started out,
I said,
we'll beat Haswell,
which was the processor
competition at the time
and which, by the way,
was shooting behind
the duck a little bit
because we assumed
Intel would keep moving.
That was my next question
was how much,
how much did Intel
save AMD
by just stagnating
like that?
I mean,
okay, that's a lot.
You need a good design.
Hey, and somebody said,
he always told me
I was,
I did not bet on luck enough
because, you know,
I do what I can
and I assume everybody else
is doing what they can,
but I didn't see that coming.
So I think that was
pretty handy for them.
Yeah, a little bit.
So tell me right now.
But it was good design
and it was clean.
So one of the things
people don't realize
is when we built Zen,
you know,
we had a pretty clean
architecture
and redid
the CAD tools,
the methodologies,
the flows and stuff
and then,
you know,
Zen 1, 2, 3, 4,
they were able to make
pretty good progress.
Then what happens
is at some point
progress starts to slow down
because you really need
to do a big,
either a from scratch
or a big rewrite
and then,
you know,
to get on the next curve
and that's one of those
complicated things.
Now tell me this.
Right now,
realistically,
the 800-pound gorilla
in this space
is not Intel.
It's NVIDIA.
Or unless you disagree,
in which case,
I would love to,
I'd love to hear about it.
Okay, good.
So we're on the same page there.
And it's still founder-led
and Jensen is a really smart guy.
Are you...
It's not only a...
Are you shooting behind the duck?
Are you shooting ahead of the duck?
What are you guys targeting?
Because you're trying to disrupt
NVIDIA, essentially,
if I'm not mistaken.
No, I don't care about NVIDIA.
Okay, then tell me
what duck you're aiming at.
There's so many...
It's a huge...
AI is a huge market.
NVIDIA builds
very expensive,
very high-performance,
very high-power products
that people like,
right,
with very high gross margins.
Turns out there's a big market
for smaller AI engines,
open source software,
licensable IP,
chips they can buy
and put in their own products.
Like,
that's not a hundred billion dollar market.
I don't need that.
I'd die and go to heaven
at 500 million in revenue.
So I'm building products
for other people.
Now,
some of our products,
I think,
are really effective.
And, you know,
we'll see.
But it's going to take a while
to do that.
And I have...
There's literally more business
right now
than I can deal with.
And, you know,
we're working on,
you know,
delivering hardware and software.
And, you know,
we'll see what happens.
Now...
And then the other piece is,
I think the AI revolution
has just started
from a computer architecture
point of view.
And also,
there's going to be
an interesting revolution
in how we build
general-purpose computing.
So one thing I want to do,
this is,
again,
personally,
is I want a really good
AI and CPU design
that I can then
iterate on
as software
and models
and a whole bunch
of things change.
And so we design
with conscious intent.
Like,
our AI engine
is clean and simple.
Right?
Our software stack,
you can go read it.
Read it yourself.
Right?
It's pretty straightforward.
We're getting really
good performance on it.
And we have a whole bunch
of stuff coming
in the next six months
that raises the bar on it.
But if we had to say,
hey,
there's this new model.
Go rewrite the software.
I don't have 2,000 people
with 20 years
of technical debt
of software.
I have 100 great people
writing software
and the software stack
is clean.
And the same
with the CPU.
RS5 CPU is going
to be super fast.
But it's a brand new
design with brand new
architecture
and it's really clean.
And if we want to,
you know,
radically change it,
I can do it.
I'm not stuck
because,
you know,
somebody's CPU
that's been iterated
on for 10 years
where three quarters
of the code
was written by people
who don't even
work there anymore.
Like,
like we have,
we own our own stuff
which is pretty fun.
So,
I'll give you a funny example.
So,
everybody told me,
you know,
there was a big debate
about autonomous driving.
Should it be driven
by a C program
that makes the decisions
or an AI model?
And the assumption
was the AI model
is this murky,
you know,
thing that inputs go in
and outputs come out
and you don't know
what the AI code's doing.
And they had it
exactly wrong.
The C program
was 5 billion lines of code
written by 100 people
over five years.
They had no idea
how that C program
worked.
But the weird part is
it doesn't have
a proper loss function.
Whereas the AI model,
you trained it
with a known data set
and when you train it,
you know exactly
what its error properties are.
So,
which one's better?
The AI model
you built yesterday
from scratch
with a known data set
with a known error function?
Or the C program
written by a whole bunch
of people over time
that nobody knows
how it works?
I don't know.
So,
one of the things
I want to do
is,
you know,
build the next generation
of computing
in a world
that's changing fast.
So,
I'm not worried
about the 800 pound gorillas
because they don't
move as fast.
Speaking of that,
sorry,
go for it.
It's a fun thing.
Do you see other
competitors
in the RISC-V space
as almost like
teammates helping
legitimize RISC-V?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh yeah,
definitely.
Yeah.
So like,
like these things.
Yeah,
Rivas just got funding.
It's a company
run by a friend of mine.
They got some
really good designers.
I wish them the best.
Sci-Fi is a good company.
Krista,
it was one of the original
pretty good Berkeley guys
as you pointed out
that helped build
the RISC-V architecture.
Andy's is a really
great company.
They're CEOs.
He's a character
I really like him a lot.
They're driving,
they're driving real stuff.
I know the Montana guys.
Yeah,
like the CPU market's huge.
Yeah.
Right.
And,
to be honest,
you know,
having five,
so x86 was the original
open source architecture,
right?
They licensed it
to like six,
seven companies.
And the reason
it built the 806,
the 800,
65-02
was because
those were single source
proprietary architectures
and x86,
the original 8086,
was open.
Now,
it's become proprietary
with two,
you know,
duopoly,
you know,
controlling it,
but it was the open architecture.
That's why it won.
It didn't win
because it was better.
all those CPUs
were crap
and small
and arbitrary.
Speaking of there being
only...
It's way better.
Oh,
okay.
Speaking of there being
only two,
we got our hands
very recently,
I'm about to tease
an upcoming video here,
on a Centaur
processor
that,
well,
it's obviously,
it never actually
made its way
to the market,
but Centaur Halls,
it's an 8-core,
it's clocked
at 2.5 gigahertz,
and it seems
to have risen
out of the ashes
of VIA.
Yeah,
I haven't followed
that for a while.
Well,
no one's followed
it for a while,
it's been dead
for a while,
but their concept
was on-CPU AI,
kind of like
what you just alluded to,
that was very affordable.
They were targeting
500 bucks
for this chip
with on-chip AI,
or with on-die AI,
and it just
couldn't get over
the line.
Was the problem
x86?
Was the problem
just they didn't
have a good enough team?
If you don't know
much about it,
that's totally fine,
it just was,
it was a funny coincidence
that we made a video
about it this week,
and that you brought up
that kind of,
that concept.
Okay,
so if you're not...
I don't know.
It turns out,
you know,
building AI,
hardware,
and software
that works
is harder
than it looks,
let's say.
Like,
my friend
Roger Goddory
said,
every AI company
in the middle of it,
there's a MOLAD unit,
like,
and everybody
can build one,
but building,
like,
AI is complicated
because it's a general
purpose computer
that runs AI programs,
so you need
all the layers.
You can't just build
an AI engine
with a compiler
that runs a couple
benchmarks,
you know,
there's firmware,
there's drivers,
there's security,
there's interrupts,
there's every single
piece of it,
and the thing
we've been working on
is elaborating
out that full stack.
On that subject.
From top to bottom,
and then the other
is a lot of people
tried to make
a dent in the market
with one chip,
and it's relatively small.
You know,
to drive a car,
it's going to be
a couple pedal flops
to run,
like,
real-time video.
We're building
the computer,
which we think
will run real-time video
in a single box
at a reasonable price,
but it's expensive.
It's a big AI engine.
It's not
a $500,
you know,
200-tera-flop chip.
It's,
it's,
it's pretty serious.
Okay,
so let me jump in
with what was going
to be my next question
from Ricky.
Like you said,
hey,
it turns out,
AI,
pretty hard.
Driving a car,
pretty hard.
I mean,
Mr. Musk
has famously promised us
that full autonomous driving
is X amount of time away.
I kind of am wondering
if he had an early point
in his career
where he worked
at Valve
at this point
when it comes
to giving ETAs
for things.
And I,
and Ricky wanted me
to ask you,
okay,
how far
are we really away
from full self-driving?
Because I got to tell you,
I am relatively speaking
an idiot.
But when we got
the promise
that,
you know,
full self-driving
was going to be-
Can you drive a car?
I can.
Well,
okay.
Oh,
so you,
you could,
at least I'm smarter
than your computer.
So it doesn't seem
like,
like we don't really
need AGI
to drive cars
it turns out.
Okay.
So,
what I was trying
to say is,
relatively speaking,
I'm an idiot.
But I looked
at the claim
that,
you know,
every current,
every current Tesla
was going to be capable
of full autonomous driving.
And I went,
there's no way.
There's no way.
Even knowing what I know,
it's just,
there's absolutely no way
that they have
the kind of capabilities,
even if I extrapolate,
even if Tesla is,
is 10x,
what everyone else
is doing on the market
right now,
I just,
I'm sorry,
I don't buy it.
So how,
so,
so Ricky asks me
to ask,
how far are we away
from true,
like level four,
level five,
true full self-driving?
Give me,
give me a spitball.
Well,
my favorite,
my favorite crack
about Elon is
he turns the impossible
into late
and then people complain
about it like crazy.
And I always thought
that,
that's pretty good.
You gotta raise money
somehow.
Yeah,
well,
sure,
you know,
kick the can down the road,
build some products
like their cars
are great.
I,
I have two of them.
So,
and I like full self-driving.
I use it every day
and it's a little quirky,
but it's getting better.
No,
so,
there's
building a big enough
AI engine.
So,
so humans drive cars
really well.
I taught both of my daughters
in,
you know,
a couple hours
to drive a car
and it turns out
they both have
a general intelligence,
right?
And so for them,
I'm driving
just a subset of that.
Yeah,
yeah,
that's pretty good.
I was thinking
of A-B testing them.
Like,
like I was gonna have
one of them,
like read the rules
and then,
you know,
go for a drive
and then I was gonna
have the other one
watch like 100 million
hours of video
and then see
which one
could drive faster.
But,
my daughter Catherine,
she told me
to bug off
and she's like,
no way,
I'm watching
like 100 million
hours of video
to learn to drive
the car dad.
She learned it
like eight minutes
flat.
So,
the general intelligence
seems to be
a really good thing.
Now,
the problem
in the cars
today is
we're trying
to put a small
AI engine there
and get the maximum
performance out of it.
Yeah.
So,
Waymo,
I'm in San Francisco
right now,
they drive around
with no drivers
in the car,
it's pretty spooky
and,
you know,
that's a fairly
heavy-handed solution
because it's got
a shell out of sensors.
Sensors everywhere,
yeah.
It's wild.
Mosquitoes
and all that stuff.
Whereas Elon
would say
like a one-eyed guy
with 2200 vision
could drive a car
and,
you know,
you don't have
to be that smart.
Now,
that causes
a trade-off
because the smaller
the computer,
the better the software
has to be.
So,
I think
if you put,
I don't know,
five petaflops
in a car
with some of the new
good transformer models,
you could drive
a car pretty fast.
But there's another
weird thing
which is humans
aren't data intelligence,
we're computationally
intelligent.
Like,
you didn't get smart
by watching hundreds
of,
you know,
millions of hours
of anything.
Don't tell the audience
that.
Yeah,
well,
maybe you watched
hundreds of hours
in the last week
but it's only,
you know,
tens of thousands
of hours.
It's not that much
information.
Like,
we get some information
and we essentially
learn to simulate
the world.
So,
you know,
I don't know
if we live
in a simulation
but our brain
sure is a simulation.
And we haven't,
we haven't really
cracked the AI problem
of building
really smart systems
that,
like,
simulate themselves
and essentially
create intelligence
with simulation.
They're creating
intelligence
with data prediction
which seems
pretty smart
but it doesn't
seem like,
it's not close
to what we actually do.
I want to loop back
around.
It's like,
yeah,
that,
well,
people get a lot
of data
from vision
but blind people
are smart too.
Like,
you don't need
to see anything
to be smart.
And that's not
in the state at all.
I want to loop back
around to one
of my earlier questions
and this is obviously
going to be a little bit
of crystal ball gazing
and I don't expect you
to have a good answer
for it
but I,
you know,
I asked,
okay,
how much of a
generational improvement
is we just didn't
think of that
versus we just didn't
have the capability.
Right now,
you're really focused
on AI.
You're focused
on risk five.
That's,
that much is very obvious
but I have to imagine
for someone like you
talking to the people
you do talk to
you got to have
some idea
of what the next
thing is.
I mean,
obviously,
you know,
Jensen had some idea
where he was going
with CUDA
while everyone else
was sitting there
going,
why don't I just
have more FPS
on my stupid
gaming thing?
Right?
You know,
is there a risk five
replacement that is,
that is,
you know,
two,
two cells dividing
right now?
Where are we going?
Well,
let's say it
a different way.
So,
so your brain,
you know,
there's,
there's this theory
about you had
a primitive brain
then a motor cortex
and then an emotional
brain and then
you know,
cerebral cortex.
So our brain evolved
to add layers.
Like our cerebral cortex
is essentially
a high-end planning
machine.
And so obviously
animals survive
just fine without one
and then when it
started to grow
you have to ask
like what was it for
and it could be
it helped model
the world better
and create better
planning with better
outcomes
and at some point
the cerebral cortex
took over.
Most people think
they live there
in their head.
So you can do
things really fast
with direct connections
through your motor cortex
but most of
the you
that you believe
is you
if you believe
in that kind of thing
seems to be
your thought press
in your higher level
thinking.
So today
AI computers
are treated
as accelerators
to general purpose
computation.
That's going to flip
pretty soon.
AI computers
are going to treat
general purpose
computers
like a motor cortex.
So there'll be
AI things
running to do stuff
and occasionally
they'll say
generate a
deterministic program
to do something
right
as opposed to
deterministic programs
calling up AI modules.
So that flip
is coming pretty fast
and
Interesting.
the way we think
about programming
like you were talking
about well
how are we going to
run the old games?
None of that
can exist.
like
and even
stuff as simple
as video
is going to be
all generated
like
nobody's
in 10 years
going to watch
a movie
like you're
going to live
in a movie
right
it's going to be
all real time
generated
and you're
going to interact
with it
and you're
going to ask
your favorite
character
what the hell's
going on
and they're going
shut up
I'm shooting
somebody
like
this is going
to happen
faster than
you think
and
like
so all the
mediums
we think
about
are toast
and
all the
software
that's ever
been written
is going
to be gone
like 100%
I mean
obviously
there's going
to be a ton
of resistance
to this
I mean
there'll be
a guy
with a rotary
phone
and an
iPhone
and a
javas
program
or something
but
it won't
be material
to your
everyday life
so
okay
I guess
I'm about
to ask
you to
and feel
free to
ignore
this
question
if you're
just like
look
I don't
need the
I don't
need the
handmail
so
yeah
I'm a believer
in
we're gonna
like
we're gonna
use AI
to rethink
a lot
of science
right
so human
beings
like we
have this
idea
of
you get
data
you have
a theory
you have
a prediction
the problem
is
you get
trapped
in your
theories
and so
then new
data comes
along
and you
can't
really
interpret
it into
your
theories
so all
our
science
is
you know
it's
elaborated
from a
bunch
of ideas
but they're
all human
ideas
and they
can't
encompass
all the
data
and I
think
science
is gonna
go through
a fairly
big
revolution
I'm
still gonna
see if
I can
get a
hot take
out of
you
when you
see for
example
you see
the
I think
you've
brought up
entertainment
a couple
times
you brought
up gaming
you brought
up film
when you
see for
example
the actors
union
negotiating
to keep
generative
AI out
of film
and music
out of
art
you know
what's
your
what's
your
take
on that
this
has
happened
a lot
you know
there was
a big
split
you know
supposedly
in Europe
I read
it in
the history
books
that
you know
Austrian
bands
like
knitting
you know
weaving
machines
and
clothing
mills
and all
that
stuff
because
they
didn't
want
the
people
to lose
all their
jobs
and England
embraced
it
and you
know
one won
and one
lost
so
yeah so the
writers unions
will say
you can't use
this for this
movie
and it'll
create a whole
new area
where they don't
exist
and people
generate all
kinds of
stuff
and so
technology change
usually means
you get on
you get on
board
you get left
behind
you know
now I think
there'll still be
writers
there'll still be
books
there'll still be
movies made by
people for
people
there's all kinds
of stuff like
that
like you
you can buy
machine made
clothing
but people buy
knitted clothing
people
people like
what people do
and you know
that's a really
great thing
you know
we like
artists
like you
can get a
perfect painting
by somebody
printed
but you still
buy the painting
from the
artist that
you talk to
because it's
some level
more interesting
but yeah
keeping AI
out of this
and that
and the other
thing is
going to be
a hard fail
I want
the last
sort of
big one
I know
you should
probably
I think
we've kept
you longer
than we said
we would
I'm very
sorry for
that
but I
promise
we're
getting
close to
the end
we haven't
talked about
atomic
semi at all
and this
time I'm
coming in
without having
done any
pre-briefing
because I
like I said
it kind of
slipped under
my radar
you say
you're focused
I'm at the
office
that's
that's
an atom
okay
I didn't
know it
was an
atom
but is
that the
logo
is that
the logo
for the
company
or
okay
cool
yeah
so
all I
know
is
you guys
are
working
on
low-cost
fabrication
equipment
like when
you say
fabrication
equipment
you mean
like
like ASML
fabrication
equipment
what are we
talking about
here
smaller
like a little
tiny one
like that
so you
want to
what your
wafer is
is like
five centimeters
or why
tell me about
okay even
smaller
help me
help me
so
so the
semiconductor
technology
is great
today
and all
the equipment
is great
yeah
and it
got
optimized
to make
very large
wafers
that move
very fast
yes
right you
know they're
12 inches
around
like the
thing that
holds it
weighs 50
kilograms
and it
moves
so you
look at
all the
machines
it's
it's
really
hard to
build
and heavy
and all
kinds of
stuff
yeah you
gotta account
for seismic
stability
of the
land
make sure
there's no
ancient
burial grounds
under it
that sort
of thing
yeah
like yeah
it's amazing
right
so
so I
met this
kid
Sam Zulu
like he
made a
fab in his
garage in
high school
he has
YouTube videos
about it
and then I
met him
when he was
in college
and we
started talking
about what
it would
mean to
go build
a set of
equipment
where you
could make
a fairly
high-tech
chip
really fast
but just
make one
chip at
a time
and then
optimize the
crap out
of it
because you're
not solving
the problem
of moving
50 kilograms
at you know
100 miles
an hour
and you're
not trying
to keep
something
perfectly
flat
over a
huge
surface
like
basically
change the
game
and make
something
way way
simpler
and then
take
advantage
of
like there's
hundreds of
billions of
dollars of
material research
being done
you can
atomically
you can deposit
atomic layers
of almost any
material
single atom
at a time
it's beautiful
so is the
goal to be
like
we decided
to go
sorry go
for it
well my
personal goal
is to go
make a
really interesting
chip really
fast
and
it feels
like the
3D printing
like one of our
investors said
it's
yeah it's
basically 3D
printing
compared to
injection molding
right where you
don't have to
deal with the
enormous scale
huh
yeah
now the
weird thing
is if you
make them
fast enough
it could be
for more
than prototyping
right which
also happened
with 3D
printing
yeah
well 3D
printing is
amazing and
it just keeps
getting better
and better and
goes into more
stuff and then
there's really fun
stuff like you
3D print molds
and then injection
mold that
like what you
can do today
with the
combination of
modern CAD
tools 3D
printing injection
molding and then
CNC and all kinds
of stuff it's
it's fantastic
and yeah so
we're we're into
building our own
machines that make
chips and you
know using an
unbelievable amount
of material science
research they publish
everything you can
buy any any any
atomical air
deposition material
you want for almost
nothing it's crazy
yeah super fun
okay which um
I mean this is it's
almost like a
chicken egg
question right like
which uh which
comes first for
you in terms of
of taking tense
torrent to the
next level in
terms of um of
taking atomic
semi to the next
level do they
drive each other
like is this an
attempt to to
yeah maybe
someday real men
own fabs you
know as the the
famous quote right
like is I have a
fab I have a
computer design
company I have
AI software sure
why not right
yes why not what
are you doing this
I mean like a lot
of people are like
what are you up
to it's like
like damn
boom roasted
I mean I know it's
like people hey
this planet might get
hit by an asteroid or
blown up by a
volcano man I want to
make sure that gets
stopped
I'm hustling
you know it's like
they had a backup
planet but you know
we got we got big
problems right here so
yeah we got to get
moving all right well
on that note I think
this is a perfect time
for us to say thank
you so much for
coming on the show
um preemptively you
know I'd like to get
out there and uh make
it so that you can't
say no because it's
in front of 10,000
people and say we'd
love to have you on
again sometime I
know that tense
torrent has some
really cool stuff
coming and we'd
love to take a look
at it once that's a
little more baked and
once you guys are
ready to kind of
engage with us do
some videos together
uh we'd love to
maybe have you come
on for a you know a
deeper look at you
know the the normie
version that we
publish on the main
channel maybe we can
have a chat about it
after um this has
been this was the
normie version this
has been no this is
the really dialed in
audience yeah this is
yeah this is the guys
that'll sit and listen
to us for four hours a
week uh this is
the WAN show so um
guys if you could just
give us uh give us some
applause in the chat for
mr jim keller um really
appreciate you taking
this time on a friday
night uh get to your
family please sir and uh
hope to talk again soon
okay great hey great talk
with you guys all right
thank you thank you very
much that was great
all right oh maybe we
should do interviews more
man that was a lot of
fun and like i knew from
watching some of his other
interviews that his
answers to things were
going to be extensive but i
was like i want to make
sure i'm prepared so i had
all these questions we got
through i don't know a
20th of what i wanted to
talk about and we didn't
get through like almost any
of those and then you had
your own that's why i
preempted that's why i
got out ahead of it
because i knew you had
stuff yeah um and his
his staff told me because
i was like look
realistically you know we
don't want to take up a
ton of his time yeah we
don't want the we don't
want the WAN show to be
nine hours long um i do
know could we could we
maybe schedule could we
maybe ask him for 20
minutes because i wanted
to be super reasonable and
they were like i'll tell
you what you don't want
that we'll put we'll put
20 minutes on the thing
but we're gonna tell
jim some other amount of
time that's longer
because people get
talking to jim and then
i mean is time even real
anyway yeah that was so
much fun uh obviously we
do have to move on into
our next topic uh yeah
i'm yeah that was that
was a blast i could have
gone on forever i think
let's talk about marquez
brownlee destroys the
economy
what a pivot
is ai gonna destroy the
economy no no it will be
marquez it will be a
youtuber so this is
obviously our headline
topic for the video
today uh a review of
humane ai's ai pin by
mkbhd has received a
surprising amount of
backlash with at least
one detractor calling it
and this is a quote
almost unethical
irresponsible and
careless this particular
critic even made an
implicit reference to a
doctor's hippocratic oath
first to do no harm
several business
influencers followed his
lead framing marquez as
being some kind of
powerful reviewer heartlessly
killing other people's
nascent projects um this
is despite some of these
business influencers claiming
that he bankrupted a
company in 41 seconds
sorry what um okay so
there's a there's a lots of
problems here so number one
humane ai is not
currently bankrupt um
number two they received a
lot of equally negative
coverage from people other
than marquez he just happens
to be a particularly high
profile person and number
three humane ai staff seem to
be largely unperturbed by his
review and their social media
head sam sheffer called it an
honest solid review with fair and
valid critiques this is
another quote i think it
helps that sam is a very
experienced person who came
from the media side actually so
like he's he's been on the
other side of this he
understands it it makes sense
that he would have a well
reasoned appropriate response
um marquez himself has
commented on the controversy
saying that a negative review is
very unlikely in and of itself to
kill a product or a company
without there being other
factors involved he also
stated that his reviews are not
to inform or um entertain
businesses they are to inform
and entertain consumers um and
that you shouldn't really get
that all confused so i would just
like to say heartily that i agree
uh as a reviewer you don't owe a
brand that sends you a product for
review anything the deal is and i
laid this out i laid this out back
when hardware unboxed was under
fire from nvidia uh or rather not
nvidia was under fire for their
treatment of hardware unboxed and
you had these people coming out and
saying well look you know i'm not
going to name any names but there
were people both on the company side
some companies let's not name any
names and on the audience side that
had this understanding of a reviewer's
role like the second you're reviewing
something you are part of the
marketing strategy for this product or
that you um or that you owe somebody
anything that is not how this works
you get the product you evaluate it
with the knowledge and with the tools
that you have at your disposal and if
you like it there is a huge benefit
there's an enormous benefit because an
unbiased video or article about a
product is going to have a much larger
impact than paid advertising if that
weren't the case and i promise you this
i cross my heart and i give you my
personal linus tech tips trust me bro
guarantee if that were not the case
companies would only advertise they
wouldn't engage with independent media
at all why take the risk because the
other side of that coin right the other
side of that coin you get this huge
boost if an independent media says your
product is great and recommends to buy
it but if they don't like it it stings
you don't run that risk with paid media
we went through a similar thing we sent
our screwdriver well we've gone through
things on all sides of all kinds of
things when it comes to saying whether
a product is good or not and having
people be into it or not i just mean
but anyway on the product side yeah let's
talk about it on the product let's talk
about it from the manufacturer side yeah
yeah do you want to run i thought you
were going to no no no we sent it to
look i had the luke experience for an
hour just now genuinely hilarious i was
trying not to laugh every time i could
see you physically reacting and i'm like
yeah welcome to welcome to the world
um yeah it was epic uh i i'd like you to
go ahead and tell your story now no i'm
doing it on purpose right now um no yeah
we we sent it to a bunch of different
reviewers um and every time that we knew
a review because we would often like
there'd be some form of communication of
like when the video would come out but
they often wouldn't tell us what like the
results were because that makes sense
um so like we would know a video was
coming out on a certain day and there
was so much anxiety because we have a
lot of belief in the product but you
don't know like they might test it in
some weird way that we we didn't think
of or whatever like you don't necessarily
know what's going to happen they might
not like the feel for whatever reason
they might just plain not fucking like
it maybe they just think it's ugly like
who knows right and then the videos
would come out and then oh great
everybody seems to love it but like
it's it's it's a tense moment and
there's a degree of kind of knowing
who you're sending something to like if
i had a product that was functional but
not particularly aesthetically pleasing
um you know what i you might send it to
someone who's more into function over
form yeah i i might you know i'm not i
i've decided not to name names um but but
i would i might pick and choose my
reviewers a little bit if i had
something that i thought was um very
very very beautiful and and and crafted
um you know i might send it to a
completely different set and don't
imagine for a second that companies
aren't playing this game and that they
don't have a certain set of expectations
um again a name i'm not going to name
but a very large technology channel that
is not marquez but really really big
told me that before engaging with them
one time there's a brand that had
someone on their team go back and watch
every single video they'd ever published
a to make sure they were brand safe
and b to get some idea of where their
headspace was at and what they felt was
important like i'll tell you this much
humane ai did not contact me
that tells you everything you need to
know about their confidence in the
product from a reach out from a nuts
and bolts practice oh do you think they
don't know who we are yeah but did we
reach out we i think we did at some
point i'm not sure it would have been
procurement team but there is absolutely
no way that if they if it had there's
no way that there was a conversation at
humane ai that did not include what
about ltt and there is absolutely no way
that if i was on that team i would have
greenlit sending us one come on what was
i going to say about it was i going to
talk about the design i'd have been
like wow how many i'm sorry how many
pixels are in this fucking display i was
i'm not gonna lie when when some of the
videos started coming out on it i i was
often refreshing the ltt page looking
for
uh the the resurrection of kick farted but
unfortunately it never happened no i
mean i i'd be down to cover it i think
we i thought we ordered one or something
it might be a little late i haven't
followed it up well i don't know i came
up with a good title today
it doesn't matter how early or late
your video is if you've got you've got
that banger title yeah it's true yeah so
i came up with a good title it was it
was like marquez killed this product or
something like that or like i i forget
why did marquez murder this yeah
exactly look how they massacred my boy
um as long as you've got the title it
just really doesn't matter so i'm i'm
definitely down to review it i am
intentionally not watching any coverage
of it like i did with the vision pro
so apple's a company that explicitly
excludes us from any kind of early
access or insider information on their
products um because they don't like the
way we do things that's fine that's fair
enough but um
yeah the the cold hard truth the basic
truth is that that's how independent
media works everyone has their own
methods everyone has their own
processes everyone has their own
biases and the way that you engage is up
to you you're not obligated to send a
product to anyone uh the only reason
that that whole thing with nvidia and
unbox therapy blew up was because
nvidia said the quiet part out loud
apple is so careful nvidia yeah hardware
unboxed did what did i say unbox therapy
oh dude i'm sorry hardware unboxed i'm
just yeah yeah thank you the whole the
only reason that whole thing went down
with hardware unboxed and nvidia was
because nvidia said the quiet part out
loud they said look if you don't get
on board with ray tracing and and beat
this drum we're not going to be able to
seed you products anymore
well okay apple's too smart for that i
just want sorry i just want to interject
for something slightly off topic for a
second just before i forget because i was
supposed to do at the beginning of the
show but then obviously uh important
things happened um if you're watching on
floatplane check out the beta.flowplane.com
site we just pushed a massive update which
you're going to notice probably nothing
but it's really big for us and we need
bug reports so if you use it run into
any problems there's a form in the bottom
left hand corner click that let us know
what's going on don't tell me in the
flowplane chat because i can't do anything
about it right now but use that form and
let us know it's a we complete removal of
the angular wrapper it's all in react it's a
big deal anyways sorry back on the topic
avery studio says mkbhd saved us from a
junk product at the end they can go cry on
their pile of unwanted inventory and that's
that's 100 true i mean i i made a comment a
little while ago that i think got taken
well okay basically what i said was look um
i don't want anyone to buy this about a
product um and that was taken as like that
i had some kind of bias or something but no
and while i do come with my own set of
experiences obviously in my own priorities
it was it was not a bias it was based on my
direct experience with the product and when
i said i don't want anyone to buy it it was
that i don't want anyone to waste their
money that's my job is that you don't waste
your money and the reason that we've got you
know as many subscribers as we do the
reason we have so many people watching
right now is because a lot of you seem to
have very similar priorities to me and so
what i tend to do is with my experience
and with my priorities i tend to lay out
what the case is for you know you guys as
best i can or in some cases like with
something like the ps portal lay out okay
hold on a second let's go outside of your
bubble for a second and talk about the use
cases for people who are maybe not you
that's that's what i'm doing when i'm doing
my best and we have a responsibility to at
least try to be consistent when it comes to
the application of our of our rules so if on
the one hand we say hey this thing ain't
baked it's the worst thing i've ever seen
forget about it and then on the other
hand we have a product and we say this
thing ain't baked but i you know uh i i love
it and i'm excited for the future anyway
then we better have a damn good
justification for why we're applying
these different standards and we better
explain it i think you probably saw
something like that with our coverage of
intel arc where we basically said okay
look we're rooting for this thing darn it
we're rooting for this thing it isn't
very good today but here's why it's
important i i'm gonna do my gosh
darndest best to you know try to see if
this thing is usable at all um but no you
know i can't give it a i can't give it a
straight-faced recommendation but you've
just you've got to explain that and
what's frustrating i think sometimes is
that you can't count on people to get the
whole story i think a lot of people saw
marquez's title which was initially the
worst product i've ever reviewed or
something like that and they just look
at that and they go okay well that was
all he had to say about it guys i think
his worst his worst crime was engagement
bait right which everybody has to do
which realistically we don't make the
rules about yeah i yeah um and you kind
of owe it to yourself if this is
something you're curious about to hear
everything he has to say um and you know
what yeah am i guilty of it sometimes
reading just the headline sure we all
are but we can't be mad solely at a
marquez or an us or uh whoever you know
whoever in the media we also have to be a
little mad at ourselves for not getting
more than one perspective a finish getting
that perspective and b get a second
perspective i have always always advocated
for multiple perspectives i have
always advocated for a strong diverse
independent media because the reality of
it is you know you are not going to get
the same perspective on even something
that we we all use in fundamentally the
same way right let's say an iphone what
is it well hold on a second it's a
computer in our pocket yeah we all use it
as that but you might game on it i might
use it solely for telecommunications
someone else might use it only once a
month when they're not using their daily
driver phone because they need to do a
3d scan of an environment i don't know
that's why we need these multiple
perspectives and i think that for anyone
whether you're on the consumer side or
the media side to say you know no this
is this is the one source of truth and
that truth wasn't right how dare they
it's losing the entire plot
that's my spiel yeah and it sucks because
and furthermore
he's got to get back that's fine um it
was still so fun to watch um also i i'm
gonna tangent again really quickly i'm
stoked that he was very receptive coming
back on again because that was a
fantastic conversation oh jim yeah yeah
that was sick anyways jumping back to
this it sucks because like you we i think
we all want to live in a space where
companies are a little bit more brazen
about the products that they make and
are willing to take risks and make weird
things and push limits and do stuff like
that and when you're in that environment
things will fail um there's there's i i
don't know if he said it here or it's in
an interview that i watched with him in
it recently because i think those things
are going to blend in my head for a
little while now but um he had a
conversation where he was talking about
how when creating a product yeah yeah
yeah you can aim for like 30 ahead and
you could do that every time if you
wanted but you're gonna it's a big risk
or you can just aim for 10 10 ahead every
single time and you'll probably hit more
often um and you it's fun it's fun when
the companies aim for 30 ahead yep but
they're gonna miss and it's not our job
to say great job product amazing when
they do miss star yeah yeah thanks for
participating everyone go buy it so that
they can make a better one for the
people who didn't waste their money on
this one as much as we want companies to
take those chances it's a big risk on
the company and it's our job to inform
consumers so if the thing sucks you got
to say it yep and you need to you need
to boil down why because it's very
possible like your analogy with the
iphone that someone won't care about
all the reasons why you think it sucks
and they might see some of the reasons
why it is good as enough justification
for them to buy it so it might be a
product for them and that's great it
doesn't necessarily mean anything but
like yeah i don't know it's unfortunate
but it is what it is and we're gonna
keep doing what we do and so will
everybody else we sure are i mean uh
better people than you have tried to
stop us
you know who hasn't tried to stop us
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all right god tier transition we're
supposed to get into some merch messages
here for those of you who are new to
the WAN show welcome yeah and welcome to
the concept of merch messages I mean you
guys love throwing money at streamers and
through your screen and posts I get it
that's super cool you know super chats
and twitch bits and all that kind of stuff
but the way that I see it you should
get something in return for that money
they should throw something right back
at you and that's what merch messages
is all you got to do if you want to
interact with the show is head over to
ltdstore.com check out our actually
shockingly wide array of products I
forgot to offer Jim some merch okay
doesn't matter the point is we'll get
something over to him I can
approximate his size based on anyway
the point is head over to ltdstore.com
and in the cart you will see a little
box whenever we're live that gives you
the opportunity to send a merch message
it will go to producer Dan who will
what are you wearing is that just the
moiré from your cat oh I see I don't
know it always does this cool okay well
it'll go to producer Dan who will
either reply to it directly forward it
to someone who can answer your question
or throw it down here or finally curate
it for me and Luke to read on the show
we've got a few to go through right now
just to show you guys kind of how it
works so why don't we go ahead and get
that started sure do you have an ETA on
the mouse portion of labs there is an
explosion of mice on the market and
would love to get some info on them
I'll never cash this gift card if it's
sometime this year
let me find out in the meantime do you
want to read another one sure let's see
speaking of Berkeley I'm curious if you
have thoughts on the recent research
paper showing that 55,000 plus VR users
can be uniquely identified based on head
and hand motion data captured in beat
saber I didn't hear about that you ever
heard of gate analysis as well just by
how you walk I know yeah analysis I know
that because my vision is bad but I can
identify who people are but you've
mentioned that to me a couple times yeah
so um who owns beat games again
facebook cool oh
saber barrett it's it's facebook
excuse me oh yeah I know facebook oh
oh man okay well let me find out about
the mouse thing anyway um
uh-oh hi Gary you're live on the
WAN show give me one sec
um the audience noted the absolute
explosion in the gaming mouse market
lately and they were all hey when are
you guys going to have your mouse
testing for labs all figured out
uh mouse testing a lab should be
figured out within the next 30 days
um we have all the equipment in uh it's
being set up right now by Antoine and
Sharon um and probably in about a week
a week or so uh we'll start early
testing on it but within about three
three to four weeks uh yeah we should
have results and we'll get them up uh
for people to look at okay and we'll
have uh what are the main things we're
focusing on we're obviously going to
have like click consistency or or like
click uh characterization graphs right
we're going to be able to do
acceleration we're going to be able to
do uh tracking accuracy and precision
any other major stuff that we're
looking at latency okay yeah no I that
that covers most of it so okay oh man
you know it'd be really cool Gary that
I just thought of and I'm sorry I'm
bringing this to you live in front of
10,000 people but um are we are
planning to implement or integrate 3d
scanning into part of our product
ingest uh process right yes are we
planning to are we planning to like
publish an stl file on the labs page so
people could evaluate the ergonomics for
themselves that would be sick we will
eventually get there yes Luke's cringing
he's so unhappy right now he's cringing
well it's just a download it's just a
file download Luke I'm sure your team
can figure it out that's not Linus led
development let's go Linus led development
is a terrible idea all right thanks
Gary yeah just ask Luke about embedded
video also so sick all right talk to you
later okay take care all right cool so
that's Gary had a labs so you heard it
here first 30 days so soon as well that's
the that's the the filtered by management
version of that yeah very very excited for
that I don't even know what would we even
use for the scans because I think we've got
that like handheld scanner coming but if it's
something as small as a mouse I see no
reason why we couldn't use the oh bloody
hell I forgot the name of the I forgot
the name of the company I'm sure someone
internally will tell you a CT scanner
luma luma field I see no reason why we
couldn't use the luma field for something
like that oh man that would be that would
be sick Elijah says I'll model it in
blender by hand every time no scanner
needed yeah you're gonna do that thought
anyway Dan I want to hit me with one more
merch message uh yeah sure did you have
any more follow-up nightmares about the
beat saber I know I just I hate it okay
cool I hate it welcome I actually would
have been happier not knowing that it
makes perfect sense obviously the way that
we I had to read it I mean I could tell
what member of my family was walking up
the stairs you know just by listening to
them and I'm I'm just a monkey brain
right like I usually tell who's walking
up to the wandset just by hearing how they
walk yeah so now it was a matter of time
none of this should be that surprising
but damn technology you're cool but
like also buzz off sometimes you know
yeah all right cool what's next I had a
bad day as an IT tech security IT told
me to connect an infected PC to the
hospital work land and log in with admin
credentials to investigate felt sick the
whole time how would you handle such a
ludicrous ask say no
bring them substantial information on
why this is a bad idea and propose an
alternative solution that you have also
laid out thoroughly of how you can get
the results that they want in an easier
and safer way yeah that's such a that's
such a novice error that I think it was a
James Bond film it was some it was some
kind of like spy spy flick of some sort and
the way that the bad guy compromises like
the the the lab or whatever is by getting
an infected laptop in and like they're
like head of IT basically just plugs it
into the network and it takes over all
the screens and everything and I'm just
like that was actually the inspiration for
a video we still haven't made all these
years later but I wanted to do IT experts
react to tech in movies kind of like
corridor crew now that I've said that out
loud I'm putting pressure on the team to
get that going if you guys have any clever
ideas by the way where could they post
them ideas like of movies to watch of
particular scenes oh yeah one of the
opening scenes to the neutron okay hold
on hold on hold on though okay we need a
place for people to put things where can
where can we do that what swordfish just
the movie I could come up with an entire
script Dan's gonna Dan's gonna get a link
for you guys to what was it skyfall was
that the one okay people are saying
skyfall for the one that I was talking
about anyway yeah so we need we need to
get we need to get some scenes together
I'd love to have like Wendell come on and
be a guest host for something like that
awesome it may be oh man if we could get
it together in time maybe we could shoot
it at Computex and we could get some some
fun course we can get it together get some
fun guests well I don't know I mean I
had came up with the idea when skyfall was
in theaters so that should give you some
idea I can easily get a list of scenes
for you by like the end of the weekend
release that wasn't skyfall came out in
2012 okay it wasn't when it was in
theaters then it was at some point if it
was skyfall I actually don't remember
exactly which movie it was I was just
going based on when your Linux ISO
collector got it people talking about
that oh now he knows what movie it was
from no I don't know I'm taking float
plane chats word for it you guys this is
this is all I have to go on it's it's
you guys who are telling me what movie
it's from all right yeah we'll get this
going so Dan Dan you're on that right
sure he's gonna post a link in chat of
some sort that forum LTT forum that
doable I guess so yeah yeah Dan cool
he's a cool guy look at him go look at
his fingers tight all right you know I
don't listen to you when you're talking
why don't we jump right into our next
topic Luke have you seen this
Kickstarter huh have you seen this
Kickstarter probably not oh no from
okay we're going to watch it together
awesome okay this is the paint cam Eve it
is a face recognition and paintball
firing security system supposedly where's
the dang it where's the where's the video
upcoming project bloody heck no no no
there's no there's a video there's a
video okay hold on is the video on
interesting engineering
here it is uh what am I even looking at
here what is this junk I saw a video
I think I got it you got it okay no I
don't know I don't okay gosh darn it oh
wait hold on hold on well I do I have
videos from other people oh I got it
okay you got it okay we're going to
Luke's laptop here it is we've got audio
do we care about the audio no it doesn't
matter okay cool yeah introducing paint
cam Eve an AI powered robotic security
system I would like I would like to know
um I mean I'd like to know so many things
uh face recognition animal recognition
where where where is the hopper for those
paintballs that came out of there can't
be very many that came out of the okay
it didn't quite come out of the cameras
um that's it yeah yeah that was it I saw
I saw another video a little while back
um can I just say for a moment no I'm
gonna get through the thing first
Slovenian startup Oz IT is seeking
funding for a home surveillance system
called paint cam Eve that uses facial
recognition motion detection to detect and
assess potential threats it can also
shoot these threats with UV paint gall
paint balls or get this tear gas rounds
according to Oz IT same class the system
allows for remote monitoring it's it's
non-lethal but can also operate fully
autonomously without internet after
identifying an intruder in a forbidden
area the device will issue a verbal
warning followed by a five-second countdown
if the intruder fails to retreat the
device will aim for their chest and start
firing Oz IT claims the Eve system will
be able to recognize specific people as
well as animals and specific objects if
an unknown person approaches alongside a
familiar guest the system will notify the
user seeking further instructions so I saw a
demo somewhere where they had a known
person standing in front of the unknown
person and it like it didn't fire not
that that could be faked or doctored at
all so I would like to I would like to ask
and I guess I'm addressing Oz IT directly
here I would like to ask your engineers
leadership sure have you ever fired a
paintball gun do you have any idea why we
don't use musket rounds anymore have you
seen how inaccurate they are if you fire at
someone's chest with a paintball round do
you have any idea what your liability is
gonna look like when somebody loses a
f***ing eye I mean even if this thing
worked as well as you think it did even if
you with your however many hundreds of
dollars you're going to raise on
Kickstarter managed to create an automated
turret the likes of which many much
larger teams have tried to create with
sometimes catastrophic results even if you
did that the round you're firing is so
spectacularly stupidly inaccurate that
this is a disaster before you even wake
up from the weird f***ing fever dream
that you had and thought oh that seems
like a good idea I mean people have
already made these like of course they
have yeah wait didn't uh didn't hasn't a
youtuber made this um I'm only
remembering this now what's his I know
the channel boy boy I don't remember
what the channel where they make the
things on is called um maybe I can find
it by just looking at boy boy Michael
Reeves I mean yeah he's probably done
something like that I did a thing that's
it yeah didn't he make one I mean we're
working on a water one for my cats to
keep them from scratching up my carpets
but that's a whole separate
conversation the point is hey thanks for
coming out this is a really really bad
idea yeah so it's it's a bad idea uh
because most like this is a this is a
creator from Slovenia so we don't know
what the laws are there I see a large
amount of Americans in the chat talking
about how this is definitely illegal and
is a federal offense which is why I'm
assuming they're Americans um but like
this is this is a company in Slovenia but
uh people have done this I'm gonna show
off oh yeah it's on my screen now I did
a thing as a video I made an illegal home
security system where he just straps a
paintball gun to a camera on a tripod that
like can do things and it uh it I think
that yeah they wore t-shirts with
someone's face on it and then had it
shoot them for a while this is not this
is not advanced technology this is like
it's very doable yes and you'll get in
insane amounts of trouble because most
countries that I know of have some form
of legal system around based around like
automated home defense and the way that
that's usually set up is because of
traps booby traps and stuff and there's
been cases where people will like rig a
shotgun so that if like a barn door is
opened the shotgun will shoot out and yeah
that's not okay it's actually super dumb
and super bad the damage that is inflicted
the the person who ends up being responsible
for that is is not the thing that ends up
being responsible that is not this
automated turret it's you yeah and like
yeah the second this paintball hurt someone
or doesn't and then that person just claims
that it hurt them yeah you're screwed
that's a big one you're screwed the whole
just like people claiming stuff and then
I'm traumatized now all of a sudden it's on
you to prove that I I can't open doors
without fear anymore I need therapy for
the rest of my life yeah you're gonna pay
for it now you're out millions Bob
Icarus says paintballs can be fairly
accurate but you need a pretty long
barrel to actually get the round to
spiral that little camera was like yeah
Bob yeah Bob brought that up it had a
maximum like two inch barrel there is
absolutely and Bob Icarus is right at a
range of but that's the thing right like
got a range of let's say
10 meters 30 feet I could probably hit an
aluminum can pretty consistently like I'll
miss but I'll miss by a little bit like I
could hit a torso no problem from that
distance every time however the problem is
that a 30 feet that's nothing presumably
this thing is not mounted like at the
perimeter of wherever you're trying to
protect like it's it's like a home
security thing by the time someone is
within 30 feet of this thing if you have
it mounted in a traditional security
camera location it's supposed to be
indoors indoors oh well that's but this
this security camera thing is indoors
outdoors well how long would its range be
well that's my point that's even more
insane is is you're gonna you're gonna
have like facial recognition someone
just walking down the street you're
gonna have 20 you're gonna have 20 of
those feet just in the distance to the
ground yeah not to mention you're gonna
have to compensate for drop-off somehow
okay hold on a second this is getting
even more complicated tear gas in your
house yeah okay fair enough yeah and
then that barrel that barrel further
complicates it this thing is not going to
be accurate it has absolutely no hope
whatsoever of being accurate at all I
assumed this was just indoors it being
outdoors makes it significantly more
hilarious it it I mean there's there's
some amount of like you know accuracy
and volume where if it's able to shoot
just like a huge amount of stuff the
hopper on that thing yeah it's six
rounds at all so I don't know if they
have like maybe maybe it gets fed through
something that's like on the other side
of the wall or getty wrangler says
porch pirates maybe but yeah but if it
gives them a five-second warning I could
be often on your porch in five seconds and
the first porch pirate that gets shot by
that is just gonna tell everyone else
they know and everyone else is gonna go
get shot and then they're gonna sue the
heck out of you like that'll be the new
scam yeah getting shot by these things
you can sue the owners in probably I'm
assuming most countries we don't know
about all of them maybe in Slovenia
having automated defenses for your home
is totally fine Calabarn says no idea
um actually I have a 98 custom where the
barrel curves up it's pretty accurate at
long range does not have to be a long
barrel yeah but your 98 custom barrel is
like four to five times the length of
this barrel that's this little tiny
security camera barrel is very small
yeah that's that's part of the problem
so many problems why don't we jump into
our next topic which is sad and happy
remember the spiffing Brit tea PC that
had that teapot pouring as part of the
water loop yeah well we have an update on
it unfortunately as we feared it did
indeed break in transit and as we feared
the tea in the loop did indeed start
supporting life okay so here's a
question right off the hop it broke in
transit when did we send this I don't
know a thousand years ago yeah what well
he hasn't been using it but hold on the
story the story continues so this is this
is the spiffing Brit PC what was up with
my hair that day I you were on a I have no
idea of a tear this was only a year ago
is this that YouTube thing where it was
like essentially two years ago this was
a year and a half ago yeah look at this
is awful anyway the point is here's the
finished PC did we ever actually yeah
there we go we did an actual montage so
you could check out the system absolutely
incredible Alex outdid himself I got
that got that teapot got that teapot
action unfortunately the system has not
been in action finding loopholes and
exploits on the perfectly balanced YouTube
platform yeah according to overclockers
UK who repaired the PC the GPU moved
laterally in transit causing the riser
cable to essentially split in half I'm
only gonna check out this close-up here
because you guys should definitely go
check out overclockers UK's video they
did a whole video on this I've seen this
before I wish it surprised me but yep
this is the thing that happens you can
see it it broke so that would explain
why it wasn't working normally you want
to ship those separately but water cooled
in yeah gets a little hard not always an
option yeah the repair team didn't have
an identical replacement so they used a
gen for fan techs riser cable with an
adapter bracket the water block radiator and
loop despite being gross were successfully
cleaned though the pipe through the teapot was
apparently too disgusting and had to be
replaced yeah I mean that makes oh I
think they're saying the GPU block was
successfully cleaned the CPU block
apparently turned out to be restricting
the flow rate and had to be replaced as
well as the d5 pump interesting are they
saying that it was because of the growth or
because uh must be a d5s or it was just
very restrictive no the block um anyway I'm
surprised they weren't able to clean the
d5 as well anyway but he well they said as
well as the d5 pump right interesting
meaning that had the same problem anyway
the tea has apparently been replaced with a
combination of EK cryofuel that is then
dyed to resemble tea and everything else
seems to have arrived in working order
uh they apparently added their own branded
mug to the build okay that's the last
thing that I am going to check out I want
to see I want to see how they integrated
their stuff into into our original build
here here here it is so here's their
footage so they've added a barrow cpu
block and where's their where's their mug
where's your mug at boys I honestly I
looked for it show me your mug
no not that mug get it I face the
Yorkshire tea box I don't think was
originally there I believe it was
actually oh
that would have been an Alex innovation
I don't see the mug yeah I couldn't see
it
well anyway great job thanks for getting
that fixed up why do we ever build
computers for creators they always get
broken in transit
and the funny thing is like we even we've
man we went out of our way was there
okay we we create things we like couriers
are just determined to destroy you know
what it I think people don't appreciate
what transit does to things there's a
reason that PC companies are like yeah
you know what we only build computers in
America for Americans because the longer
something goes the greater the chance
that it will essentially vibrate itself
into pieces check this out here hold on
I'm just trying to find this thing here
we go the no where is it dang it there's
this new there it's either new or it's
it was recently in the news cycle it's
it's a hard drive destroyer data
sanitizer thingamajig that works solely
on vibration what's the company called
no no that's not it I bloody well hate
it went here we go Garner there we go
here it is okay this is a promotional
product so I have no problem showing
this video in its entire it's a
promotional video for a product
realistically they're not going to get
mad at us it's called the disc
mantler patent pending from Garner you
put the hard drive in check this out it
shakes it
that's right friends see you later that's
some vigorous shaking everything is
disassembled it apparently does it in
just a couple of minutes or something
like that and I think people
underestimate what sitting on a truck
or in the cargo hold of an airplane or
being anywhere being on it being on a
ship with those with those diesel engines
going under it I think they underestimate
what these conditions do to a product
heat cycling increasing decreasing shaking
and vibrating I think I've told this story
before but I used to have a very reliable
client when I used to do like IT stuff on
the side who was a trucker who was actually
on like some trucking TV show at some point
or whatever but he would often have his laptop
running on his passenger seat and it would
just shake itself to death because they were
all hard drives back then and he would come
back to me you know every however long and
another hard drive's dead he doesn't need a
better laptop he uses it for like almost
nothing but he just needed a new drive and I
would have I had like his favorite desktop
background which was like him standing next to
his motorbike or whatever so I would like
set it back up exactly how he liked it with
the programs that he liked I didn't have an
exact ISO because like obviously some things
would change whatever and and I'll just
rebuild it for him every time and then SSDs
became like a thing and I was like well man I
like hate to say it but this is the last time
I'm gonna do this for you and he's like why I
was like I got you a new thing I'm not gonna
bother explaining it but it's not gonna die
anymore and he was like oh okay cool and
then yeah never heard from him again
it is what it is
apparently yeah it's apparently Doc I was
sorry this is totally unrelated apparently
Doc Martens you know like the shoes is
really struggling right now and a big part
of the problem might be that they have kind
of quality themselves into financial
trouble because their stuff just like lasts
for a really long time yeah SSDs because of the
growth in capacity in performance initially and
then especially capacity now I think have
kind of saved themselves from that but I
hate to I hate to be this guy oh this is a
really scary thing to say but I feel like
we've reached the point now where people
aren't gonna need to upgrade their SSDs that
much anymore like one terabyte has been kind
of a magic sweet spot for what is definitely good
enough for a boot drive for a long time and I
might buy some more storage but that was not the
way it worked before I was essentially replacing my
drive for a long time as we made our way through 60 gigs
120 gigs 256 and yeah sure you could run your OS on it but for
convenience people were getting a new system they were just
getting a new SSD that was a much greater capacity I feel like we've
reached the point now where it's just not really necessary anymore and unless
you are you know pull an Apple and lock the SSD to the system you're gonna be
stuck with people just wanting to carry their drives forward yeah speaking of
upgrading and building quality products that don't need to be replaced very often
lttstore.com we've actually got a couple new products if you guys were looking for
an excuse to send a merch message we've got our phase this looks sick pullover hoodie
and a zip-up hoodie and t-shirt these are genuinely super cool so this design
started off inspired by um shoot it was something oh yeah it started off inspired
by like a VHS yeah low fidelity kind of thing that Lloyd pitched me and I was like
yeah I see where you're going but yeah no but you know what take this part that
really reminds me of these like those image tests and let's just lean into that
and he came up with this design that I think is so flipping awesome so these are
these are kind of like res like inspired by resolution test patterns we've got like
a little you know color block there just to add a nice little splash of color to
the design I don't know what the 23 is anymore it doesn't matter the point is
we've got a few different color ways and you guys can check that out we've also
got a pullover hoodie and a zip up a hoodie in the design so there you go I
think it looks great and of course it's your typical LTT quality oh look at that
we've got navy hoodies now noise a noise
test shirt please ignore that's a that's a that's a pretty funny name for it sorry what's
that Luke test shirt please ignore where uh Corey is the name in in chat said you should
call it test shirt please ignore yes um Dan 23 yeah but that doesn't mean anything Dan why
does your thing say when after dark are are we out of topic time already no no
basically you can just go whenever now I know that Luke may want it to step out
okay I'm still good yeah as long as I'm home by like nine I think oh okay cool
uh watcher leaves YouTube I have to confess as someone who doesn't watch that
much YouTube I hadn't watchered them before but it's a really interesting
business move and something that I thought you know Luke might have some
thoughts to share uh watcher entertainment a media company founded four
years ago by three former BuzzFeed creators has officially announced they
are leaving YouTube and beginning their own ad-free subscription streaming service
watchertv.com according to the founders they have found themselves
increasingly split between creating the content that their fans want and creating
the content that appeals to advertisers and to YouTube's algorithm further they've
been dealing with a tension between the costs necessary to maintain television like
artistic standards and the financial model that is required to thrive on YouTube
their hope is that switching to their own streaming service will allow them to
build a more sustainable business and rely less on advertisers the site went live
today it's currently priced at $6 a month or $60 a year and they're offering 30% off the
first year I assume that might be a typo here for anyone who subscribes before May 31st as well
as the opportunity to vote on which previously canceled watcher series should be revived this is an
interesting move mm-hmm I think they're doomed yeah me too I think I said I think it was
literally last WAN show where I gave my like five websites statement uh which is I I my theory on this
I'll try to keep it short is that roughly everyone has roughly five websites each that they go to it's not
the same five websites for everybody but most people have you like a few websites that they go to and
pretty much nothing else and if you leave that sphere for people you're gone and you can you can
sort of exist in both like you can have a foot outside like I suspect you know the vast majority
of the lion's tech tips audience doesn't go to float plane all the time the full plane subscribers
do sure but we're on YouTube so our visibility doesn't go away people still know that we exist
but by completely leaving the the YouTubes the reddits the whatever things like that
Facebook's of the world yeah by leaving those entirely your discoverability goes away now they
are planning to upload I think they were saying like the first few videos of a given series on YouTube
but then the idea I guess is they're paywalling the rest of it so kind of like if uh if Netflix
just uploaded the first episode of every series to YouTube that's a better that's a better idea than I
I thought it was but I still think that this is going to be an incredible challenge I mean we've um
we struggle with all the same things you know how do we balance increasing production values how do we
balance and I I do think that it's a little bit um misleading to whether it's our notes or their
feelings or whatever I I do feel that it's not it's not quite right to say that you have to fight
between or you're torn between what the algorithm wants and what the audience wants because the
algorithm and the audience are one in the same ish because the algorithmic audience is the the
broader audience whereas I think that if you were to say if I were to say my audience right who would
I be thinking of would I be thinking of a random flyby who happens to come across one of our videos
one time gets engaged with it watches that video and then never watches another LTT video no I would
I wouldn't think of that person as my audience I would think of that person as my algorithmic I don't
know person that YouTube managed to serve this thing too right like they're not my audience when
I think of my audience I think of the WAN show viewers I think of the people who are actually enabling
notifications on their phone and and clicking on them when they come up which by the way is very small in
case you guys were curious I wanted to make a video about that for a while I even came up with
the title you won't click this notification because they won't it's like it's like a fraction of a
percent or something like that it's like absolutely minuscule anyway like so there's different ways to
define my audience and so in that sense if I were to talk about the differences between what the algorithm
wants and what my audience wants it makes sense I think that's what they're talking about but the
danger of catering to this one catering to my audience catering to you guys with the mainline content
versus catering to you guys with the WAN show on a weekly basis where we really get to sit down and
hang out catering to you guys with behind the scenes on float plane where we will pull silly pranks on
each other and you can kind of see the real personalities come out we'll get we'll get deeper
into uh tanner did a really cool video doing a deeper dive on that north korean wii u clone thing
um that's the kind of stuff that we want to make and and we understand that you guys want to see
but we can't infect the mainline content with that because that's our discovery funnel right we need
that algorithmic audience and if you're putting out if you're if you're casting fewer nets out into
that sea of potential audience members that audience that core audience is going to decay
and you know i've seen every reason under the sun for someone to cite that they're not going to watch
anymore um i had i had someone uh tell me how disappointed they were that um we built such a
cheapskate computer for that person who begged for one and um and that it it really showed how
not generous we were it's hilarious because it came literally the day after we raised a hundred
thousand dollars for sick kids right a video they clearly didn't watch imagine imagine for a second
if it had absolutely nothing to do with that and had everything to do with what i said which is that
we wanted it to be something good enough to like really be a gaming pc worth going and getting
but not so good that they were going to get like murdered on the way home that was it that that
was the imagine whole skit imagine get stabbed in the back i think imagine for a second if the
reason was just what i told you got stabbed that's not the great part sorry the skit was great yeah um
sorry where was i where was i going with this right i i've been given every reason under the sun for
someone to stop watching anymore but the reality of it is most of the time it's that you've changed
you've moved on i've probably changed too but i suspect i haven't changed as much as you have in
terms of the products that we're trying to upload or we're always trying to do things a little bit
differently we're trying to do them a little bit better but the cold hard truth is what's probably
happened and this is particularly understandable lately with tech at least in the you know on the gaming
pc gaming side um the traditional pc gaming side getting you know kind of stagnant compared to what
we're used to kind of kind of boring compared to what we're used to right um that's probably the the
most honest reason that people have given me for for for not watching anymore man if i had a dollar
for every time someone said they're not watching anymore because we're constantly making jokes
and the juvenile humor i'm gonna see you're going like we never did that in 2012 okay buddy yeah
that's that's a new thing that's a new thing if anything it's probably gotten less to be completely
honest yeah i don't know maybe that's it maybe it's more jarring now maybe i don't know there's
still a fair bit i doubt it yeah there's still a fair bit of it so i've done some poking around
while we've been sitting here um but anyway okay so hold on let me finish let me finish really quick
i'm sorry um so by not by not casting out nets to the algorithmic audience right the broader audience
you aren't replenishing the core audience and that attrition is unavoidable you can't watch the same tv
show forever yeah think about it you can't play the same video game forever one person in the audience
is like i've played starcraft since i was born we're not mostly we're not mostly wired like that and so
i i think that while this is something that could be very successful uh in the short term they could
convert a significant amount of their current core audience over to this paid platform uh i i worry i
mean it's not like this isn't the kind of thing that we've dabbled in in the past we were one of
the we were as far as i can tell the only relevant creator on vessel.com we built float plane
like sweat blood and tears built float plane in an effort to to create that sustainability
most of the creators on vessel.com stopped kind of doing the early access thing all this kind of
stuff we weren't the only relevant creator on the platform we were the only relevant creator
to vessel in terms of revenue yeah sorry i should clarify um anyway so i i've done some looking around
someone in the chat pointed out dimension or sorry not dimension well dimension 20 is one of their
products but um dropout.tv which i think was a really really good call out of a channel that has done
something similar as far as my understanding goes actually i'm not even gonna go there because i don't
even know but um they do a really good job they still get into the brain space on the main channels
they do stuff with shorts um and i i think they might still release full videos here there um every
now and again but it's a funnel into dropout tv for the most part and as far as my understanding
goes they're very successful with this they also have a very large amount of different shows and
shows with like very die-hard dedicated audiences which is exactly what you would need in order to
do this murix says dropout uses vimeo as their their backbone provider yes and i think that's a good
idea i think that's how they should do that if they wanted to do this approach where it's one creator
one website they want the thing they should just use another service like vimeo vimeo is a great
solution there um and and run it that way um yeah dropout has a ton of different series and
they've been doing this for a long time they're very well set up now uh looking into it as well
it's like okay what external monetization does watcher have so first thing you look for is there
more links on their youtube channel and you can see patreon so okay let's go to their patreon
if i can click things well they've converted 1200 members which is very good conversion very
respectable they're doing a great job they've got what looks like well fleshed out good tiers we
could maybe learn something from that um they do you know they've got a seven this is all canadian
dollars so the 750 is probably five bucks looking at a some form of standardization it's probably five
usd ten usd i don't know maybe six something around that i don't know exactly um but they've they've
got a good pricing range they even have the like whale big crazy one yep um and they seem to be
posting actively so they they they can convert people to outside platforms they can show that
they have a very strong outside platform presence um one thing that they might unfortunately find
is that patreon is one of those websites that a lot of people go to it might be harder to convert to a
external platform non-patreon funding website um i have looked into watchers website as well
watcher.tv and this is also built with vimeo um as the video playing back end someone pointed out that
dropout was done that way this one is also done that way i don't remember how i determined that i think
it was this video uh you can pretty easily tell this is the vimeo player but another fun uh thing to do
is like let's just copy this url um and go to builtwith.com and you just paste in the url
and you can see like all the things that they're using and if you scroll down a little bit to audio
and video media you can see vimeo um so yeah they're using vimeo which seems like probably a
good idea for what they're doing so they're doing a lot of things well from my judgment i don't know
what that matters but um i don't know i wish them the best i hope they do the thing that dropout tv
is doing where they still sprinkle out content quite healthily and really start trying to grasp
onto things like shorts where they can try to convert people look there's this really tasty little nibble
from this video you need to go over to this other site to watch it um yeah someone in the chat said
rooster teeth did it for a while but then it just slowly went into obscurity that's the risk
that's why this is terrifying um rooster teeth is not the only example that that's happened to
um it's just a really big name uh but yeah this is this is scary but i wish them the best i hope it goes
well yeah i don't know man it's uh it's tough and once you've um you know did i say 1200 yeah i meant
12 000 sorry yeah once you've once you've got an audience it's um you know it's something but it's
it's small like we've we've got 35 000 subscribers on float plane we are we are one of the top patreons
except we're not on patreon yeah um we've been very very successful at it and still
in the grand scheme of things guys the the revenue that we can generate on an audience that small
even directly as paying customers it pales in comparison to the costs associated with hosting video
hosting video through vimeo is not cheap um and it pales in comparison to you know what you can generate
more broadly through ads and sponsorships and and all those things on on a platform like youtube
i do yeah i do i i worry i worry about them that's all i mean these aren't people that i know personally
or anything like that but i i generally think the creator economy is pretty cool i think of other
creators as my my fellow creators these are people who have gone through a lot of the same struggles a
lot of the same challenges that we have and i i want nothing but the best for them um but i i i'm i
fear i fear for these kinds of moves they can be and i'm sure i'm sure they feel it too right it can be
scary because once you've once you've left it's not that easy to just come back
what else we got today spiffing brent keller we talked about the uh
ooh i didn't mention during that merch update that all of those uh the labs uh t-shirt pullover and zip
up are print to order so uh they the shipping will be delayed whoops uh okay this was actually from like
last week or a week before i don't remember when it was but hp has been sued for their alleged printer
ink monopoly again hp has used printer firmware updates to create a monopoly alleges the newest
class action lawsuit brought against the company for their dynamic security feature the lawsuit filed
in illinois alleges that firmware updates in late 2022 to early 2023 blocked hp printers from using
non-hp ink cartridges forcing owners to buy first-party ink and lose the value of any non-hp
branded cartridges that they already had this isn't the first time that hp has faced a lawsuit over
this practice since dynamic security was introduced in 2016 hp has settled a california class action for
1.5 million dollars in 2019 admitting no wrongdoing but agreeing to prohibit use of the firmware they are
facing a separate california lawsuit seeking injunction against the practice they have agreed to pay about 50
australian dollars to affected australians in 2018 admitting the company likely breached consumer law
and they were ordered to label printer packaging to reflect the first party implementation they were
fined 10 million euros by the italian government in 2020 in order to modify sales packages of printers
and they agreed to settle a complaint pertaining to customers in belgium italy spain and portugal for
1.35 million dollars admitting no wrongdoing and they settled a clinton canadian class action in 2019
for a maximum of 700 000 cad denying they did anything wrong our discussion question is how
many times do we have to prove that what hp is doing is not okay in order for this to stop
i don't think there's a limit to be completely honest i think this is just how it goes
i think they're they're they're kind of like uh limit testing to see what they will and won't get sued
for and they can do it as many times as they want this is like we've we've talked about this before about
like there's so much money in maintaining your monopoly and building customers that it's worth just
getting sued over and over and over again because you're never going to get sued hard enough
because everything's mostly just a slap on the wrist so who's going to be the one that finally
goes after them i mean
the us has kind of woken up recently but i feel like they've got their hands full with uh
apple right now oh hey should we talk about boston dynamics's new uh new robot one day
one day after they announced that atlas is no more they announced a new all-electric humanoid robot
also named atlas um you want to watch the video yeah i mean i've watched it now obviously but
it's worth watching again i love how they made it stand up it's just
dude seriously this legitimately reminds me
of irobot like it it looks more it looks more fake than it does real yeah
it looks like it looks like a game it looks like a character out of a portal game or something like it
i've always had kind of a theory that like the the people and the contracts that are that are
working with boston dynamics they they kind of want their videos to appear sort of terrifying um
i don't know they are masters masters at viral marketing i mean they've got four million views on
this video yeah and the more terrifying they make it the more people are going to share oh have you seen
this it's crazy it's spooky man the robots are going to take over this looks super cool dude
i mean yeah it makes sense right like why do your limbs have to only bend the way that human limbs
do they might as well just like bend in in any way that you want but like but still be human shaped
so that you can take advantage of how the world is kind of made for humans what kind of jobs are these
gonna do i am amazed at how and obviously we can't we can't quite tell um but i am amazed at how
apparently human like the form factor is i i i i don't know i mean obviously i'm not i'm not uh an
expert when it comes to um robotic design more human like than atlas was atlas was pretty bulky atlas was
like a human with a gigantic backpack you know some people are pretty bulky but this is atlas was
very like barrel chested yeah i guess the the legs on atlas were kind of like naturally curved out so
that wasn't as atlas was hydraulic right this is electric yeah yeah but that doesn't change appearance
much it might be the extra overhead of all the cables and pumps and things maybe this is wild dude
nuts i just keep looking at this going like i thought we were like i'm obviously not an expert
when it comes to robotics right like it's not what i do but i thought we were a lot more years away
from something that was this clean and this compact that's what's really blowing me away about this like
how how does that have enough battery power to operate on board it yeah like where even is it
probably in the chest somewhere but still that's wild yeah right why why wouldn't you just put it
everywhere yeah i mean maybe yeah well more wiring is actually it it has complication i mean it might
help with weight distribution but no idea there's definitely going to be trade-offs there
wireless charging in the feet yeah that that you might also not have one battery that powers the whole
thing like those those like uh it's like quad where where you would normally have quad muscles are
pretty bulky there might be batteries like for the legs in that area not sure or that's just all
infrastructure for the knees that's probably what it is man i have no idea i don't know yeah figure
robots we i'm pretty sure we've watched that figure ai video on on wan didn't we where it like hands the
person the apple and stuff we not watch that i can't remember yeah we did on wan we did i don't
remember okay sorry have you seen oh i literally closed it right as you wow nice uh while he looks
that up keanu reeves is apparently going to be the voice of shadow the hedgehog in the upcoming sonic 3
movie nice um the plot of the movie reportedly involves dr robotnik getting his groove back after the
events of sonic 2 so yeah it could be could be interesting um okay you ready um yes oh it's an ad nice
cool a backpack
is this it yeah have you seen this do you recognize this no okay so maybe we haven't then maybe dan and
i were just talking about it sorry i thought this was the one that you watched on when you kind of need
audio can we get that figured out uh yeah i'm sure i can live without it he's he's telling it to do
something it's going to do something i get it it's definitely better with audio because he does
reasoning and stuff like through audio
so like he's asking him to tell him like why he's doing different things and in what order
while he's doing a different thing actively with his hands that's pretty cool where should all
the dishes go and stuff like that i think is while he's putting the garbage away so he's like doing
a task while talking about a different task
all righty and the world's going to be wild and then he tells them like based on based on what you
see in front of you where do you think the cup and the plate should go and then he says something
along the lines of like i think they should go in the drying rack and then he tells them to actually
like do it so he has it he has it reason it out first and then i don't think he says like put them
in the drying rack i think he says like okay do that or whatever like put them away or something yeah
huh it looks a lot more useful than my kids
all right well good luck humans um yeah youtube is warning of another ad blocking crackdown this
week they published a memo warning that third-party apps that violate youtube's terms of service
specifically youtube viewing clients that block ads um are going to be experiencing a
crackdown youtube was vague about how exactly it would act against these apps beyond saying that
app users may encounter issues like buffering error messages and videos failing to load
youtube emphasized the importance of ads and supporting creators and their content
the chrome store meanwhile still offers several ad blocking third-party youtube apps so
i guess the question here is what is youtube's strategy here exactly
trying to get less people to use the platform without watching ads yeah but if you if you're
not a premium subscriber if you're not a member of anyone's channel it's pretty brutal and you block
ads oh i thought you were going to say the amount of ads on youtube is pretty brutal oh no i was going
to agree with that so if you don't watch the ads anyways yeah because you're blocking them and you're not
doing any other method of giving them money for using the platform why would they care yeah i think
it's a it's pretty interesting uh seeing people who do block ads on the platform saying well i'm just
going to boycott youtube and um and i i think they don't really fully understand that they are um they
are it's it's kind of like being vegan and saying you're going to boycott mcdonald's it's like
so i think you already were yeah who cares their fries are cooked you're not you're not a customer
um you are you are from a monetary standpoint to youtube you are not just worthless you are actually
some money vampiric you are a parasitic um they don't care at all yeah and so it's been it's been
interesting to see some of the discourse around this on both sides right like
i personally see this as a win but not for the reason you think because i mean as a tech creator
who's found ways to monetize our content in spite of the fact that probably a disproportionate um
percentage of our audience does engage in ad blocking uh realistically you know okay they they
crack down on ad blocking they don't crack down on ad blocking it probably it's not an existential
question to change very little for changes almost nothing to me um but the reason i see this as a
win is because in the earlier days of third-party youtube apps uh google was very um very antagonistic
like remember that windows mobile didn't have a youtube app because google wouldn't make one and the
third-party ones were constantly being hampered uh there was one third-party one in particular i
forget what it's called but basically um we weren't there wasn't you had to use a browser on windows on
windows phone which kind of sucked and while youtube is obviously taking a stance against third-party apps
that engage in ad blocking here what they aren't doing and the win that i see here is they are backing
down what they aren't doing is going after the third-party apps for existing they are backing down
on the changes to the ui that people might be enjoying through these third-party apps and basically
just going okay look truce but don't block the ads um and i think that's probably about the best offer
we're going to get from them because the negotiating power of the users of these apps that block ads is
zero it's it's it's less than zero and there's like there's there's some stuff you can argue about
like if those users are sharing that content or talking about the platform in general it becomes
more in the like mind space of others and stuff but the value of that is like so incredibly low and
youtube already has oh i don't know roughly the entire planet as its user base so i don't think they
care yeah so this is gonna be uh i think this war is only going to escalate and i think don't quote me on
this but my understanding is that google's tools for detecting ad blocking are much more sophisticated
than what they have necessarily deployed i think they are making a conscious decision
about how aggressive or not aggressive to be towards ad blocking and yes ad blocking services
are evolving but i suspect that they are evolving at a pace that they won't necessarily be able to
or i suspect the pace at which they're evolving is reactionary and google is capable of laying the
hammer down in a much more significant way i think in a lot of these like cat and mouse type of games
you don't necessarily put all your cards on the table right so like yeah i wouldn't be surprised if
you're right yeah so uh good luck good luck everybody what i hope is that that's where we settle where we
can have nice things we can have third-party apps that don't shove shorts down your throat or that um yeah
or that you know don't fill your um don't fill your space with unnecessary promotion of other videos
or that allow you to get straight to the comments or you know whatever the things are that bother you
about the official youtube app i hope we can have nice things and i hope that the third-party apps figure
out this is the best deal you're gonna get take it now or take it later i guess but you will
ultimately probably end up taking it um stick boy over on float plane says if premium wasn't 14
something dollars maybe i would consider it i would never advocate for finding a group of friends and
buying youtube a youtube premium family plan
of course not i would never advocate for that yeah
yeah i mean i can see why some people might do it right because it would significantly lower the cost
of the youtube premium subscription for all the people while still contributing at least something
to the cost of running the platform not to mention to the creators that you enjoy but i would never
advocate for that and like it's not like it would be that hard either it's actually like the systems are
just there right i think you just send email invites oh this is interesting chroma chan says i got nabbed
for that they ip checked me really because i'm pretty sure no i have people on my in my fat in my google
family that are not at the same address have they changed the tos on that ooh interesting
people are saying me too oh all right well um no no i got bumped out i was in it for a while and then
i got removed from the sebastian youtube family yeah sorry brother hey technically i think steam is up to
six so uh nice i'm back in
we'll see i mean you can only uh you can only join and rejoin them by the way have we talked about the
new steam family family sharing thing or i forget what they're calling steam families i don't know
if there's been an update but we did talk about it originally yeah oh we did okay well i've been using
it and it's super cool that's all i have to say about that nice yeah i absolutely love it um there's
like parental controls now the sharing works great uh something i wasn't sure about because it says that
you can only while i can play a game while someone else plays a game a different game from my library and
i didn't i wasn't sure if it would be possible for it to pool licenses together and allow two people to
play at once right okay so if any two people on your family network have a game then any two people
could play that game simultaneously yeah that's pretty sick so you can pool i didn't expect that
would work either that's really cool super cool that's very cool so as long as you know let's say
yvonne and i own a license of a game two of our kids could play it together as long as yvonne and i
are each playing completely different games yeah it's so cool you and yvonne is like two separate
entities in this case if you both owned a license to a game then two kids could also play it if you
weren't playing it so cool yeah that's cool love it that's really cool and that mimics how it would
work anyways if you had two copies of a game at home and they were discs you could put both of those
discs in other systems like yeah it would work it would make sense what do we got next
uh i don't know shot at piracy what is this plex has requested that github take down the plex
reshare repository allegedly because it would contribute to plex's piracy problem despite the
fact fact that plex reshare doesn't host any ip infringing material github has honored this
request and replaced the repository with a dmca takedown reference it's unclear why github made
this decision probably because i don't want to deal with it um though it took around three weeks for
github to respond leading to speculation that they were discussing the matter with the plex reshare
developer and allowing them to respond plex reshare is primarily intended to allow plex users to make
shared directories browsable on the web which allows people to reshare them without being the original
owner the project remains available on via docker hub discussion question is this likely to reduce
piracy should we be concerned about companies removing non-infringing tools just because they
might enable piracy this is a super weird one the fact that this does not actually host
or even directly enable the sharing of any infringing material there's there's multiple layers to the
bizarreness of this um
i'm extremely i'm extremely confused
that a plex requested this because as far as i can tell the only in the only pressure on
them would be political and i am b extremely confused that github which hosts all kinds of
tools to enable all kinds of piracy yeah i'm extremely confused that they pulled it down
yeah should we be concerned about companies removing non-infringing tools just because they might enable
piracy i think i think that's the like this developer it sounds like they were using docker hub and github
it i mean that's probably just going to be the route right if you're if you're pushing something
up don't don't have it only in one spot
that is frustrating though all right anything any other topics we want to hit um
yeah let's do this one really quick uk criminalizes non-consensual deepfakes the united
kingdom has passed a new law criminalizing sexually explicit deepfakes without consent creating these
deepfakes carries a penalty of a criminal record and a fine distribution however could result in a
prison sentence the u.s senate is also apparently considering a bill that will allow victims of
sexually explicit deepfakes made without their consent to sue the creators um discussion question
is it better to deal with these matters using the criminal justice system why aren't lawsuits
enough another discussion question is ai and the increased accessibility of deepfakes forcing the
legal system to catch up with this as a problem yes it definitely is um one thing i find interesting
is that it's just sexually explicit ones i'm kind of surprised just all non-consensual deepfakes aren't
a problem to be honest oh i mean uh it seems like it seems like it would almost be too broad so if i
that person looks like me i'm gonna sue this person for it yeah i think it'd be really tough to enforce
and it'd be tough to prove whereas i think it's harder to find a motive for an explicit deepfake
um whether that okay yeah i'm not gonna get into the motives like i know there's there's a huge issue
right now of people being very angry about um like i don't really care personally but some people care a
lot of whenever any deepfake is made of them especially people who um
their their kind of job relies around it right so like we we've seen voice actors like this recently
um where even if you're not doing it for commercial means they don't want you deepfaking their voice
ever for any reason yep um and i'm sure there's people that are more on the visual side of things i'm
just assuming i don't know models you might not be making sexually explicit images of them
but if you deepfake them at all their their job is modeling right you're removing their job i don't
know how okay with that they are when you're removing their job by recreating them specifically um
weird it's a touchy point we're headed into such uncharted waters yeah all right do we want to head
into uh yeah speaking of uncharted waters
yeah
sorry did you pick one
no i have to push the button oh all right thanks dan
i love one show after dark it's great yeah
i'll go through potentials we ready yeah i'm ready you guys ready hit me dan sure hey guys thank you
for all the work and thank you for making my saturday morning educational but also entertaining heck yeah
i was wondering what is beyond labs you consider going into online education like what is after labs oh
um i feel like
right now we need to get to labs yeah yeah yeah let's let us focus on that for a bit let's get to labs i mean
i think it's uh i think that the opportunities for product testing and better information about
electronics are are many um
um but that's for sort of the business people to decide right now we're just figuring out how to get that data in a in a scalable manageable cost-effective way and that's it's a tough problem it's something that very few organizations have solved and it's something that i believe that we can solve but it's just going to take us some more time
how is the smart home going light switches and heating do you recommend zigbee or wi-fi i purchase wi-fi devices
based on features but now i'm having network issues due to the number of devices oh man i mean it's all
uh okay so the switches i am hoping that in a veli is going to have some of their uh their upcoming
switches that use millimeter wave for presence detection i am hoping that i will have some of
those in hand at some point so i can test them and then if it goes well i would really like to use those
because motion is just not good enough um i'm still having problems with my blinds um my hvac has been a lot
better ever since i figured out that i had too much wi-fi i turned off the antennas on some of my access
points the 2.4 gigahertz antennas uh they're just they were too powerful they were too close together
and even though i was parking my eco bees on particular access points um and it's partially
my fault for having all the antennas enabled but partially ubiquity's fault for having them all on
channel one i had them all on auto and they were all on channel one anyway the point is i'm no longer
having connectivity issues with those and i'm pretty happy with the hvac but there's still a lot to be
done when it comes to lights and uh window coverings and honestly a lot of it just comes down to that i
don't have the time or attention span to focus on that when i've got just a lot of other stuff going
on it's like okay it's the afternoon on one of the two days a week that i get to do anything other than
go to work and eat and sleep um do i go to the swimming pool with my kids or do i play with my light
switches i don't know it seems like a pretty obvious one most days of the week because i do
have things that i legitimately enjoy like i'm finally working on painting my bike did i show you
my test pieces yes yeah so i've got a new color that um if i'm a bad boy i'll try tonight and if i'm
a good boy i will wait until tomorrow to try but it's a it's a candy it's a a candy paint what's the
over under on that oh i mean it depends how late the show goes um 40 to 15 i don't know are we playing
super checks tonight probably not you don't have time tonight i don't think okay that's fine uh i
don't know be murdered i'll probably i'll probably prime it tonight i'll probably prime it tonight
solid middle ground then i can sand in the morning and then i can apply paint right away instead of
waiting around to sand the the primer for it to get hard enough to sand so yeah it's it's a candy
though so what that means is that your primer coat has to be really even and your application
of the color has to be super even as well because the paint is clear so if you have a build up
somewhere it not only is going to affect the surface finish it will affect the uh perception
of the color but it's a super cool like kind of shimmery pink and that's what that's what i'm
planning to do for my motorbike so that's the reason um i i did shave the beard for the super
shallow cheap butt reason of that i was getting that facial treatment that cost the same whether
they did my whole face or whether they just did above the the lips uh but i'm keeping the face clean
until i am finished with my painting project because let me tell you i uh painted for a lot of years
i've inhaled a lot of paint you know yeah masks they're not perfect um and i was like okay i know
this automotive paint is like way worse um but all i'm doing is i have like this one thing and i'm just
going to go like this and i'm right next to the exhaust fan so i'm just going to go like that one time
and as soon as i did it and accidentally pulled in just the tiniest bit of air i was like hmm poison
so uh let me go there's a reason why none of the firefighters have beards yeah let me go get my let
me go get my organic uh you know filtered nonsense and and everything and even if i'm doing one pass of
the sprayer i will be putting that on every time uh so that's that's good to know yeah um
jack says uh why am i on twitch why am i looking at twitch chat well so it starts with automotive paint
ends with super glue a paper bag in a back alley yeah um i believe you though that that's you know
uncommon uncommon twitch w good take witness me paint this bicycle thank you dan you're welcome
don't forget eye protection or or uh tynan will get angry at you uh yes i don't have bespoke eye
protection but i'm wearing swim goggles that seal so that should probably be good enough perfect yeah
okay okay let's see what's up next i've even got the full bunny suit actually but i don't put that
on every time which i think is why i have um these marks on these pants because i'm pretty sure these
are new oh okay yeah it sucks because we i don't just have an unlimited supply of the ltt cargo pants
all of mine are prototypes still we don't have our mass production yet the
howdy ldl pronounced ladle ladle ladle howdy ladle linus what's the biggest compromise you or
ivan have had to make with each other when implementing new tech into your house
i mean that's a better question for ivan than me uh she's had to make all kinds of compromises like
her lights staying on and linus had to has to make few i don't know how she hasn't murdered you for
that yeah it's kind of it's kind of a miracle um she's a very wonderful woman and i will never get
divorced at least voluntarily yep
moving on hello wan crew is the labs hoodie the same as the dropout hoodie i recently got the dropout
and hoodie and i love it it is not i didn't think so but i didn't want to say no it's our it's our
standard hoodie the dropout hoodie is a sick upgraded hoodie and if you manage to get your hands on one
of those uh while we had it on promo you are very smart and if you buy one now you're also very smart
it's a really nice hoodie it's it's probably not fake uh i don't know it's hard to pick favorites
it's like kids right like i don't have a favorite but it's a really great hoodie and i wear mine all
the time you'd probably be upset a little less if this one you know
what you i more oh well okay and the point is uh yes um what's next hey lld i love listening to
you guys talk about product development what is something that is significantly more complicated
than you thought prior to ltt store or float plane
uh i was reading a different message what file downloads i did not realize how critical it is
that video loads in chunks until we tried to overcome the it challenges around just allowing
people to download the file continuously um especially when a new video drops we would have
this challenge where the more people are hitting it the more longer it takes for them to download
that continuous file and the more detrimental it is to quality of service whereas when you can feed
everyone in chunks you can balance all your different users and you can accommodate many more users much
more easily obviously i i was aware of chunk loading and i was aware that people obviously do it for a
reason but i had never really sat down and had a thunk about it until we were up against the challenge
and the reason we were was because we offered streaming yes but someone thought it was a great
idea okay to support downloads i thought it was a cool idea just like how someone thought it was a
great idea to support live streams the idea was that people could whether it's you know for their own
archive on plex or whatever else keep a local copy of the content as part of a perk of having a float
plan subscription drm free blah blah etc etc look the point is that yes it's much more challenging than
i personally thought it would be it's not actually like hard to do it's just
yeah because like if if first of all most people don't watch 100 of every single video
they try to watch through like a vod streaming scenario but if they're downloading it now they're
downloading the entire thing for sure every time right so okay so it's guaranteed to take more
bandwidth on average for the people downloading it than the people not downloading it for the people
streaming it uh and then you also have the issue that if a video say the wan show say someone has
a script that automatically someone has a script that automatically downloads every single vod that
shows up on flow plane that's going to include vods of the wan show so now they're downloading like
four hour long videos but they don't want the download to take four hours if you're streaming it
you can deliver it to them over the course of the four hours which they probably won't watch the
entire thing of so you're saving bandwidth anyways but no they want it fast so yeah downloads are
i don't know it's a it's whatever
ltt store whale here i own multiples of almost all your merch and love the quality
the one thing the rest of my family loves is the onesie when will we get a new design probably never
it hasn't been a big mover for us and i don't think we can support the various sizes in a
completely different design adding skew our skew count has ballooned and we need to pare it down
it's unfortunate because that's like i've i've heard this feedback before and it's like i don't know emma
wears the onesie like all the time yeah the the challenge for us is that a lot of the time um
we still in spite of our incredible reach in the tech sphere we still struggle with marketing
yeah we have really good quality products and the feedback like go on the go on the bloody site
and read reviews the feedback on the products is great anytime i see someone talking about how
overpriced our products are i'm like well you're a idiot because you clearly either don't understand or
appreciate quality uh or you do and you've just decided to declare it at being something and
you've never even tried it they're good products and occasionally even a good product can have a
lemon like well you know a seam will rip once in a while but that's what the trust me bro guarantee
is for um so we've got a good product we just i don't know man we uh we struggle to move volume of
it i think part of it is just the focus of our product development there's been a lot of linus
led development when it comes to the um the direction for our physical goods it's just like
you know stuff that i like stuff that i think is good stuff i think is is comfortable um and we
yeah i mean crystal says i got the logo notebook today it's so nice yeah it's great we sell like
like two a day or one a day or something like it's not it's not it's not meaningful um so something
like that may very well get discontinued uh unless we can kind of figure out how to market things
better and until we figure out how to direct our product development a little bit better it's going
to be hard for us to craft messaging around it and so it's it's kind of a chicken and egg thing so
we're going to have to have some stuff fail in order for us to succeed better at our core
competencies yeah this is the onesie yeah 89 of the reviews are five stars there's no two star no
one star but there's only 38 reviews yeah dude we don't around but like guys we could use some
word of mouth you know yeah like because it's it's great yeah i don't personally i i don't personally
like onesies but like i know a bunch of people that do emma loves them wears it all the time it's like
one of our favorite garments maybe if it wasn't called merch yeah i don't know i it could be yeah
it could be a perception thing i think a lot of people assume that our merch is is is is merch
it's just some piece of crap with a logo silk screened on it or whatever but like even our printer
you know for all the for yep i mean you guys have heard me talk about our printer and our frustration
with you know the scale that he operates at and and all that kind of stuff but are we using someone
else yeah no why because he because he cares right like he he he cares about his craft he does a great
job and that's something that we respect more than you know an additional printing capacity right so
i don't know man we can't uh can't win at everything there it is hey dale have you had the chance to
watch the fallout show yet if so what do you think i was rather certain he hasn't i haven't i don't really
watch shows i was wondering if you have no all i know that it's canon the whole thing is canon oh that's
unfortunate hmm but i kind of hate that but it's a bit of a meme because fallout new vegas had three
endings and todd howard said that they were all canon did he okay i thought new vegas specifically
wasn't canon it's it's basically this thing i don't know i haven't seen it i'm not sure what the public
perception is no fallout new vegas is not canon wait never mind i read this wrong no the fallout
show didn't make new vegas non-canon and then when todd howard was asked my understanding is
that he said yeah it's canon uh howard told ign there might be a little bit of confusion in some
places but everything that happened in the previous games including new vegas happened so which ending
happened huh todd and all of them huh all of them it's a multiverse they're going multiverse no no
that makes sense follow multiverse yeah let's go when the atomic bomb blew up it created parallel
realities wow people really want you to watch this show luke it's also all simulation they
want you to watch it good luck with that i don't really watch shows what is it even on
i don't know no i don't have it plex wink
luke your front-end refactor to react is impressive what's the motivation and how long did it take guys
you're not going to convince them telling them it's on prime that's going to make it worse that
is actually the least convincing platform yep don't have it tell you that much um yeah he's not going
to give amazon a dollar nope um but i might check out someone's isos um the the react
uh the react conversion thing um use linus's account do have one we we needed to do something
um we needed to either majorly clean up what we had on angular uh or refactor to react it was honestly
going to be probably a fairly similar amount of work to do one or the other and at the point in time
where we made the decision i think react made complete sense i think if we were making the
decision now it might have been less painful to stick with angular angular had a massive update
recently which looked really good um but we're very happy with react the team jaden especially
i think is like super super stoked about the migration that's happening or at least where it
is now it was a little painful along the way but he's happy with where it is now people are happy
with the fact that we're going to be on react um react is is a heavy component of the labs website as
well so something that's all warm and fuzzy for me is that my teams are working on similar platforms
which is very cool i like that a lot um so i think the end result is better than if we stayed on angular
even knowing that angular did get the update um because i like the cohesion of of you know across the
teams working on similar things um so yeah i'm i'm very happy about the react refactor code base is
in a much better space now um a lot easier to work with uh yeah it's just just better overall jane's
done a great job um and i i also like the sidebar thing that were the the platforms that we have
flowplane um and the labs website they're like independent platforms that we have i can't i can't really
count the store because shopify runs the vast majority of it um but the the independent
platforms that we have are becoming more and more similar over time in regards to how they're built
how their bones are set up so that if you were a developer that worked here you could potentially
swim between the teams and it would be less painful which is cool but yeah
got another one for us dan i do hi wanda dll i bought the chevy volt based on linus's review and
it's the best car out there love it any major uh repairs or tweaks that you had to do for the car
and what should i do to keep it in good shape nope uh some some jackass uh sideswiped me in the suicide
lane and knocked my mirror off that's about the only issue i ever had with it volt oh yeah that was
ages ago i thought you were talking about your current car house like how many billions of dollars is
that gonna be oh man i curbed it oh no yeah my winter wheels it's not that bad but i'm really
upset that's unfortunate yeah it's always the first ones yeah well no ivan curbed it once already on the
summers but uh that one was bad enough that i had it fixed uh jake knows a guy jake knows a guy of
course yeah my guy's now jake yeah exactly um yeah so jake knows a guy uh so i had that one i had
that one touched up uh don't don't forget i spilled muriatic acid in the back of it though
so like that the first scratch was a wasn't i forgot you did that doozy she was a doozy that
is impressive fortunately the floor mat covers it like you actually cannot tell if the floor mats in
so whatever yeah um yeah driven on sundays uh battery acid all over the back yeah exactly
yeah linus i remember from a previous wan show you said you used to be an avid hockey fan ever
ever considered ahl games my local team recently played abbotsford and it was a great time
i have heard it's a blast i have never gone i've also heard that um there used to be a roller
hockey team in vancouver i heard those games were a blast as well i bought into the hype of the
roller hockey no of of nhl oh nhl yeah like i just i was like i don't know nhl and the convenience
it's on tv i very rarely would go to uh to an to an in-person game but i i watched on tv i would
just i'd put on team 1040 back in the day am radio and listen to the to the talk show talk
show hosts and stuff like i was i was into it but i didn't like physically attend anything it's
the convenience of following professional sports right yeah i i went to a game with my dad at the
langley event center um and it was really fun to be honest it was it was interesting because like i
was talking to my dad uh i think we saw who was it i think it was i know we've gone to go see the
bandits there which is the basketball team but we it was the vancouver giants versus someone i don't
remember who um and it was really fun and you get that like i've watched some nhl games where you can
tell they're like you know holding a lot in reserve this isn't the playoffs let's not get injured
whatever these guys were going hard the whole time it wasn't a playoff game at all and they were
just like every play they were just sending it every play you are potentially getting scouted
yeah so they it was it was very high energy the whole time regardless of what the score was
it was very fun to watch um i had a good time i don't even remember who won it was just like
entertaining the whole time through so yeah and the tickets were cheap and the arena's closer it
can be more interesting when um everyone's good but not so good that they don't make mistakes yeah
like what's more exciting uh a clean tight defense or a big giveaway and at center ice
and like it they're they're so much better than me that i would look like a clown
so like which we know for sure because we've tried it yeah i can't skate um nerd sports it's fun to
watch um but so like the skill gap is there that you're still watching people that are just like
incredibly good at this thing so like that's that's established but then they're not necessarily
quite nhl level maybe some of the players are and they'll get scouted up or whatever but
it's it was uh it was very fun to watch
why still no atx 12 vo i really want to see it take off and while the btf format seemed like the
perfect opportunity to do it they're all still using the legacy specification intercompatibility
man uh it's gonna be it's gonna it's gonna take off in pre-builds and then and servers it's happening
already there um in fact i'd be surprised if they don't go even higher than 12 volt in servers uh they're
gonna want that efficiency and then over time eventually maybe we'll get it on the desktop but
it doesn't look like it has any momentum right now okay line lukey and dano what's your thoughts
on automatically changing twitter.com to x.com how did shenanigans like netflit twitter.com get past
quality assurance well i don't think they have much in the way of qa right now like it's pretty obvious
that it's fire them all yeah yeah it just it just seems to be a zoo over there right now um you know
about this right no oh yeah so any reference to twitter.com in a tweet they were just automatically
changing to uh x.com so people could have s e t w i t t e r.com and it would go to
that website but it would change the appearance to sex.com
so any url that ended with an x so that's why they were saying netflit twitter.com
that would show as netflix.com in the tweet but if you clicked it it would go to netflit twitter.com so
like fishing was a huge concern i think that mostly people who um
were smart raised this as an issue and it mostly probably these domains didn't fall into the hands
of too many fishers but probably some people some people got screwed over by it yeah they just they
just do stuff over there these days and act fast yeah break stuff and break a lot of stuff good job
guys yeah what is the worst piece of tech that was adopted on mass early smart watches without
even a day of battery life seemed like a terrible mass landfill product i mean that's a pretty good
example um adopted on mass oh pdas i'd say pdas gained enough mainstream acceptance um and then the
life cycles for those were so short like palm pilots and stuff people used them for a couple of way
couple of years essentially threw them away because they were getting so much better so
fast and the early ones were terrible a couple years is not bad for a tech device getting a couple
years i guess but i mean it's a pretty substantial amount of e-waste i mean yeah this was like
that's fair tech that's my answer it's all eventually e-waste uh just potentials left feel free to curate
or we can just go through humans are dust to dust e-waste is sand to garbage oh that just makes me sad
humans return to the earth and tech just goes goes to the pile it's more more depressing yeah from earth
to pile earth to pile sand to garbage we gather here today to look at the apple lisa oh
whatever poor lisa tsa took my black shaft screwdriver so i guess i have to buy a stubby
line as you mentioned not doing another onesie for another low volume products for other low
volume products would you consider doing similar to mass drop um i don't know we could but i i
realistically don't think i think you guys would be surprised at how many onesies you have to order
in order to do a run of them it's like hundreds and hundreds like i just don't think we'd uh i don't
think we'd see the demand i mean we do it with printed t-shirts but we also have to have a reasonable
turnaround times for these things like people get antsy when we say hey yeah this is a print to
order and it's not going to ship for a few weeks there's people messaging us after a week and a half
going like where the my order right like it's uh well it's exactly where we told you it was going to
be it's uh not created yet um and if and with the way that delays can occur with the way that quality
issues can crop up at the last minute i just i i don't need that headache in my life i don't need
the money that badly i guess is what i'm trying to say is like yeah i could say okay yeah we'll do
a onesie in a new pattern and it'll be great but then if we get it in and the quality sucks like
now what i i don't i don't feel like i i don't want the headache is basically what it comes down to
sup duke dynas lan and lan linus do you know uh do you ride your bike with your ltd backpack on if so
how well does it do after a slide uh we know there's a couple people who have posted backpacks
post accident on the subreddit uh personally i haven't wiped out with it on i wouldn't say that
it's a good idea it's not kevlar reinforced it's not armored or anything um so you should definitely have
proper gear aside from your bag but um i do ride a motorcycle and i it you know it is something that
i considered whether it would be comfortable with riding gear on and stuff and i like it some other
people like it but it's not uh it's not a promoted use case for the uh for the product
hey ldl you can fight over who is the first l thanks for all the entertainment over the years what
brand of optical dp cable are you running for your racked pcs for the game room it's me infinite
cables yeah shout out infinite cables uh hey look even registered that
no i'm reading nice look is gone so i got dibs nice oh on the first l yeah whatever that's fine
you already took the name of i'm the kl else i bought the company for a dollar that means my
name's on it i'm the biggest l hey i do i do i do often regret going with that and we tried i know
you and ed really did try yeah ivan tried to talk me out of it too ivan tech tips you know you know
what the example i cited was for why i just thought it didn't matter you could just call the company
whatever it could just be my name it's who cares like people will just not think about it that way
do you know what it was no rogers sugar i was like nobody thinks about that probably someone
named roger or something rogers invented the sugar company it's just rogers sugar who gives a f**k
and i was like just whatever linus media group it's not even the public facing thing the channel's
already linus tech tips anyway what difference does it make turns out a lot yeah anyway nice hey tall
short and in between if you could collaborate with any creator brand or celebrity on ltt store who
would it be and what would you make um i mean i wouldn't presume to tell any creator what they
should or shouldn't make i would want to know their ideas i mean who'd have thought ludwig would be
passionate enough to make a bidet i wouldn't have seen that one coming in a hundred years the reviews
by the way on the store are great i mean he was really into bidets before he sold bidets
uh i guess i guess we have these listed under other that makes sense but yeah like check this out
it's a basic one four stars
swipe plus how about a casual 88 five-star reviews here let's go awesome yeah but these are cool
or warm you scrub down your whole body with soap and water and also that kind of stuff do not use
a bidet for that and then you and then you have your then you have your poopy butthole and you're
like nope paper is good i will put this i will put this paper that is designed to disintegrate yeah
let's just go with that and then i'm just gonna kind of run around and then i'll walk around all day
like that i don't know the days are good hi deline nuke what do you think about buying online movies
you can't own and then pirating it or screen recording is it worth it to buy the movie sorry
what's the question buying online movies you can't own and then pirating it or screen recording is oh so
like buying so you have a form of buying the movie on like uh like um i don't know where can you even
buy movies these days who cares yeah youtube so buying the movie on youtube and then just being
like well it they got my money i don't care about any of this if my collection goes away i will now
guilt-free pirate and iso for this and put it on my plex server i say that's up to you yeah personally
that would be well within my bounds of what i would consider to be acceptable because at the
end of the day it's not by that company to be clear i believe that that still yeah makes it no
less illegal but i don't care but i agree i the rights holder got their money yeah that's that's
what matters what matters to me um and oh shoot oh man i was going somewhere with this um
um well it doesn't matter the point is like the adblock thing yeah the point is i i would do that
completely completely oh yeah i know where i was going with this in fact if anything i would say
that if your goal is to ensure that the rights holder gets paid that's actually a lot better than
going and buying a used blu-ray because that blu-ray was already paid for and watched or whatever like
for me i i that's obviously well within my bounds as far as i'm concerned as long as i have
bought a license of that movie at some point i'm like i'm good um but yeah if it's like a really great
movie and you want to support it in some way but you're just like no man i'm not gonna log into some
stupid website or put the plastic disc what year is it right like yeah just buy it and then pirate it i
don't care i'm not gonna that's not that i am the judge of any of this and i'm not i i'm not a legal
this is not legal advice but for me personally i consider that to be okay for me personally and
that's a personal decision everyone has to make for themselves personally uh geeky vapor says so if i
saw a movie at a theater it's okay well that's up to you that's my whole point it's all is it's always
up to you you're acting outside of the law effectively yeah you need to draw your own
moral lines that's all i've ever said guys all i ever said whatever happened to upside down pc cases
that opened on the right side panel with the motherboard upside down everyone needs their pc
sitting on that side of the desk i don't know i personally run a reverse case there you go dan has
them all i have the one that supports it now yeah what is your favorite part of product development
i think i like brainstorming the most i've always been like uh fun like an idea it's energetic yeah
it's it's exciting uh before before you get into the real world anything is possible you know like oh
man we could what if we made a a a a a a a laser pointer out of failed screwdriver shafts
did you just do that again did you do that thing again i think we've talked about that before we're
making a fail pointer yeah yeah it's going to be made out of failed screwdriver shafts um it's hilarious
thomas had some serious reservations about the ergonomics because the uh the the cell that i wanted
on the back and i wanted it to be user replaceable and all this stuff he's like he's like dude this thing's
gonna look like a like a like an ant queen like it's got this giant on it um and i'm like no man
it just kind of sits like right here in the hand and then the battery is gonna last for like hours
and hours and hours it's gonna charge with usbc it's gonna be like really good it'll probably be
fine it might look weird but once you grip it it'll be fine and and no it's not gonna be like a strong
blinding laser it's just gonna run for a really long time it's meant to be
never play with your pets with a laser it is dangerous for their eyes
but if you were to do it this would be a reasonably low power laser pointer that would run for like
hours and hours and hours yeah that's all i got that's it that's all i got too that's the end of
the show hey guys thank you very much for tuning in we will see you again next week same bad time
same bad channel bye