Ho, ho, ho! Merry Christmas! Guess what I got you?
Nothing.
The WEN Show!
Hey!
Welcome everybody, we've got a lot of great stuff to talk about today.
John Carmack's decade in VR is over as he exits from Reality Labs, formerly Oculus.
This actually broke last week, right before the show, so we didn't really get a chance to talk about it,
but we're going to talk about it this week instead.
Oh, this is a big one! This is actually the title topic of the show today.
We got an update from Microsoft on our Windows Modern Standby video, where we basically went,
you guys are ruining Windows laptops with this standby issue where the battery just drains for no reason.
What the heck is going on over there?
And we actually, apparently, raised some hell over at Microsoft,
and Alex from our team managed to get on the phone with the VP of Windows Platform and Services
to go over some of our questions.
So we're going to be talking about that call, what is going on over there,
what it is that they're going to do about it.
Got a whole big update for you guys. What else we got?
I thought the LastPass breach was in the dock, but I can't find it.
But we're probably going to talk about that anyways, because it's interesting.
And also, we have three rapid-fire topics today.
One is, Eufy admits they lied.
One is, Nvidia N's Game Stream recommends Steam Link.
And another one is facial recognition used to bar a lawyer from entering a venue.
And the reason why I'm listing all of these is because some amount of them are written by ChatGPT.
Wait, all the rapid-fires are written by ChatGPT?
Some amount.
And you are going to have to guess which ones are written by ChatGPT.
Oh no!
And which ones are written by our team.
I will say, they have been slightly massaged to fit the format of how we normally do.
Sure.
But there are lots of whole sentences and stuff that are taken directly from ChatGPT.
Wild. Okay.
So you're going to have to figure out which ones or how many, whatever.
We'll figure it out when we get there.
Okay.
It's unlisted.
It's not on YouTube.
Who changed it to unlisted?
Hold on.
No, no, it's fine.
I'll just set it to public and then they will see the rest of it later.
Let's see.
The show is brought to you by Vessi Footwear and two other things that were there before.
CSonic and Zoho One.
Yes.
Hold on a second.
This should go.
Ah, yes.
There we go.
Properly unlisted it.
Great.
Let's jump right into our headline topic for the day, which is, of course, that Alex managed
to get the VP of Windows Platform and Services on the phone to go over some of our concerns
about Windows Modern Standby.
First of all, I want to give Microsoft credit because on the one hand, yeah, they've clearly
sat on ass on this issue for, well, years at this point.
But on the other hand, now that we have raised it as a problem, now that the community has
spoken and made their voices heard that this is a problem that affects them day to day,
they appear to be taking it really seriously.
So let's start with kind of Alex's interview and go from there.
First, Alex asked, why is S3 sleep being removed from the BIOS laptops?
Oh, no, we should give the people a bit of a catch you up if you didn't catch the original
video.
Did you watch the video?
No.
Okay.
So Windows Modern Standby or S0 sleep is a connected type of sleep that is meant to replace
the traditional S3 sleep.
It's supposed to be connected, more power efficient and generally a boon.
It's been brought about in no small part by Intel's push for a more smartphone like experience
on Windows laptops.
The problem is that a lot of the time when the machine is sleeping, I mean, I'm sure
you've encountered this.
Have you ever come to your laptop, found it to be piping hot with a dead battery after
you folded it and put it in your bag?
Yes.
I also have like, I'll try to put my desktop to sleep.
Separate issue.
Okay.
I don't want to talk about that for now.
Oh, I left it in the camera then.
So we basically came out and said, we think we figured this out.
We think it's to do with some kind of, it seems like high performance machines are disproportionately
affected.
So it's something that the machine can be churning away on while it's supposed to be
sleeping.
We figured out that by disabling the network connected aspect of this type of sleep on
a Mac, we were able to get rid of that behavior, which we have also seen on a Mac, not even
an Intel Mac, right?
Interesting.
So it's just a weird quirk of this type of sleep state.
And we basically made a video calling out Microsoft saying, hey, this has been a problem
for literally years.
This cannot be because you already suffer from worse battery life compared to your main
competitor, Apple, who is gaining market share in the mobile computer space.
You've got to deal with this because it is killing the experience of using a Windows
laptop.
Yeah.
And I talked to someone like Jake and I'm sitting here and I'm sorry, you charge your
laptop like once a week?
That's impossible for me because half the time I go to grab my laptop, it feels, it's
probably not half, but it feels like every time I go to grab my bloody laptop, I might
as well flip a coin for whether I'm going to have any battery left at all.
If you go somewhere without a cable, you might as well not even brought the laptop.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Exactly.
So we were trying to light a fire at Microsoft and it seems like it worked.
So the first thing Alex asked was why is S3 Sleep being removed from the BIOS of laptops?
Because that's the problem is you couldn't even just say, look, I don't want S0, I want
S3 when there's this industry move towards eliminating S3.
So here's the answer.
Microsoft is moving away from S3 Sleep because how each device goes to sleep is controlled
by that device's firmware.
That means for a device to sleep properly, the firmware needs to be updated and maintained
by the company that made said device.
And as you can probably guess, that doesn't happen all the time.
Big problem with Windows being put on so many different things.
By using S0 Sleep instead, Microsoft has more control over sleep and has a much higher success
rate of everything going to sleep properly and waking up properly compared to S3 Sleep.
And I have to admit, I was wondering too, well, what was the problem with S3 Sleep?
But then again, I also know, back to your desktop comment, that there are plenty of
problems with S3 Sleep.
Like say for example, disabling wake on mouse or wake on keyboard in the BIOS and yet having
it magically wake up if you so much as bump your mouse anyway, or just wake up randomly.
Right?
I had this thing for a while where I had to put it to sleep three times every time.
It would just wake back up again, like five minutes later and then I could finally get
it to go down.
And I had a lot of people comment on this video.
Why don't you just shut down your computer?
Why don't you just shut down your computer?
If it's an advertised feature of the product, no, you don't get to complain about me complaining
about it.
That is a problem.
That is objectively a problem and I don't want to hear it.
So what?
You f***ing turn off your computer.
I don't give a s***, but if the computer is supposed to go to sleep, I am well within
my right to expect that it will go to sleep.
Okay.
It's like a child, right?
The child is supposed to go to sleep.
So if it doesn't go to sleep, well, you're well within your right to yell at it and shake
it.
Obviously kidding.
Obviously kidding.
Just no legal advice.
I'm trying to make it so that people don't take me too seriously when I'm going all rancid
because some people can't tell the difference.
I also think sometimes it's like the backing into parking spaces thing.
Like you might have a lot of time when you are done using said device, but you might
know that the next time that you have to start using it, you're going to need to use it quickly,
but you don't want to just let it sit there running the whole time.
So you want it to sleep.
I get that your needs might not be the same as mine, but that doesn't make them the only
valid needs.
That too.
And I'm not saying that your way shouldn't be supported.
That's the thing.
I'm not saying, well, everyone should sleep.
Yeah, you shouldn't shut down.
I'm saying you should be able to do both.
We should have choice.
Like say for example, there's a lot of really great feedback recently about the Micron facilities
tour.
Okay.
Did you watch it by any chance?
No, but it's in my, it's in my watch later.
Yeah.
It's really good.
Yeah.
Tons of comments.
Basically, this is the best video you guys have ever done.
This is far and away the best factory tour I've ever seen.
It's a really good video.
Micron was amazing.
They really opened up, allowed us to see, not just see, but use the facilities.
I made Ram.
I saw that.
I saw that thumbnail and immediately added it to my watch.
I made Ram.
It was so cool.
Well, here's the thing.
I can't, did we just lose power?
How much UPS do we have over here?
We need to, we need to get power from the main server room UPS.
Let's fricking go.
We have three minutes.
Okay.
How much?
Okay.
Luke entertain the people.
Okay.
I don't think we're live though.
We're live.
We are live.
Okay.
Wait.
No.
Yeah.
We're back.
It is nighttime on the land show now with Luke.
How's it going?
Dan, uh, who usually sits back there behind the TV, which I guess you guys don't see,
but it's also behind the camera, uh, pretty much said three minutes got up and ran, uh,
and Linus also got up and ran.
We have lost power.
Uh, both of them are off trying to solve the problem.
I'm still not a hundred percent certain if it's live.
I was saying F I think we're still sending some data.
I'm not a hundred percent sure what's going on, but assuming that this is going to someone
right now, I'm just gonna, I'm just going to keep going.
Uh, there's UPS is beeping all around the building.
I'm not a hundred percent certain what you guys can hear, but we have one very large
UPS in the server room, uh, that I think they are going to try to work on.
I suspect, uh, if I had to make some assumptions that they're going to be shutting down certain
things that are running off of that UPS system to try to keep networking and whatnot going
as long as possible so that we can keep the stream going.
I do believe that is the plan, although I can hear them talking right now.
So theoretically that will be coming back soon.
Um, I don't know.
Should I give you guys spoilers?
No, I can't.
Cause then you guys will post them in chat and Linus will know which ones are, which
ones are real and which ones are fake.
So I won't, I won't go through that.
Um, I don't think I can really complete this, um, sleep topic.
So I might jump into another one.
I think the one that I'm going to do is the last pass topic.
Uh, because if this stream is going out to no one, uh, that is probably the most okay
one to do because there are no notes for it in the doc.
Oh, hello.
Uh, just all the lights coming on.
What's a good time.
Oh, right.
So this isn't UPS running this.
We just got power back.
No, this is, this is UPS.
This is UPS.
Okay.
I didn't realize this light was on there.
Yeah.
Should we turn this off?
Yeah, just go for it.
You're fine.
There's extreme circumstances.
Yeah.
We can just have a night wan show.
It's fine.
Correctly through the notes, legendary programmer, John Carmack known for programming the original
doom, uh, and his love for VR has stepped down as consulting CTO for reality labs, formerly
Oculus.
I actually didn't know they were called reality labs.
I don't know why I didn't know that.
Yeah.
I think that was a while back.
Yeah.
I probably just didn't care cause it's a weird name change that doesn't matter.
Uh, meta is famous for making and directing and directly breaking promises not to F it
up in quotes.
You will not need a Facebook account to use or develop for the rift.
That's definitely not a thing anymore.
Quotes.
We are not going to track you flash ads at you or do anything invasive.
Uh, that's not a thing anymore in quotes.
We are going to, we are not going to lock people out because they compete.
Um, I actually didn't know that was broken, but apparently that was broken in 2016.
Uh, and then another one in quotes, Facebook is going to give us access to massive resources,
but let us operate independently.
The first part they did, if anything, I think the entire world quadrupled hex to pulled
down.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The first half of that is extremely correct.
Um, and then in quotes, none of our gaming resources will be diverted.
Ooh.
Yeah.
That one, uh, not so much.
Oof.
Uh, Carmack says that he has mixed feelings about leaving, stating that the quest to in
particular was almost exactly what he wanted to see despite complaints about the software.
Yeah.
And that the straw that broke the camel's back is apparently the, the gaming resources
being diverted one for him.
I mean, we know.
Yeah.
John Carmack.
He's a gamer guy.
He's not a game.
He's not a gamer.
He's not a game.
He's not into gaming.
Right.
Right.
John Carmack.
Not, not that into gaming.
Just a doom.
It's not a game.
It's a wall.
It's real.
It's a wall painting simulator.
It's how we protect the world from demons.
You know, the storyline behind doom is like surprisingly in depth.
It's like there's a ton of lore that I had no idea.
Yeah.
I mean either.
Anyway.
Carmack has previously been critical of metas direction saying that they should focus on
products to tap into the metaverse before building out initiatives.
He worried that thousands of people's efforts spanning years would be spent on things that
didn't contribute to the way people use devices today.
Seems to be a little bit true.
His biggest problem, however, is the efficiency and speed of development.
He says that as someone who works hard at optimization, seeing gross inefficiency hurts
your soul, likening to seeing 5% GPU utilization.
That is not surprising from him.
He has always been hyper into that.
This is one of the reasons why people still run some of his old games on like as many
devices as they can possibly imagine because they're really, really well built for optimization
for regard, like basically regardless of what platform you're on.
Any labs, he says, operates at half the effectiveness that he'd like.
Yikes.
That's a big ooh.
I mean his standards are pretty high.
Yes.
But there's probably still room for improvement.
Also yes.
His voice at the top of the company to his dismay has not been able to persuade the organization
to improve.
He says that he has never been able to stop stupid things because they cause damage or
set a direction and have the team stick to it.
He blames himself for this as instead of taking a leadership role and locking horns with Facebook
on day one, he focused on what he's best at, programming.
That's also not surprising.
He assumed he would hate it, be bad at it, and probably lose anyways.
So that's why he stuck to programming.
He still deeply believes in VR and that meta is best able to show its value.
His parting advice in quotes is make better decisions and fill your products with give
a damn.
Now, Carmack's focus will be on his artificial intelligence startup, Keen Technologies, which
has received significant investment money in recent months.
Artificial intelligence or AGI has the goal of making an artificial intelligence system
that can theoretically do any task a human can, a truer definition of AI.
What we call AI right now is far more limited in scope and is often just a matter of observing
and fail at one thing until it gets better.
Some, like meta chief scientist Yan Li-kun, hopefully I said that right.
I don't know.
Sorry if I did say that wrong, doubt that AGI can or will ever become a reality.
Others fear what AGI could represent if created irresponsibly.
The AI overloads, overlords joke hits a little differently for AGI.
Now what I kind of want to raise here is I think AI or AGI or whatever is what a lot
of people, definitely including myself, thought VR was going to be at this point in time.
I think it's a huge disruptor.
I think it's going to change a ton of things.
I think it already has and the real usable levels of it have barely even existed yet.
Like when GPT-4 comes out, if places like Google who have large language models similar
to GPT-3, GPT-4, whatever, if they start using those more publicly, if other companies that
have similar systems start using those more publicly, I think the impact of these things
are going to be on the scale that when Oculus was first founded, people thought the impact
of VR was going to be at.
I think it is a much more significantly interesting thing to work on right now and I think Carmack
is quite interested in leading his own things considering that the vast amount of his frustrations
very clearly when leaving Meta was leadership decisions and efficiencies and goals and all
that type of stuff.
If he can steer the ship more directly and he can do it on something that might be more
punchy and more fun right now, I think that might be interesting for him.
This is one of those things where I think I've talked to you about this, like not on
the show, just talking.
I don't know how I would handle working for someone else.
As long as they made decisions that I agreed were really great, it'd be fine.
The second one of them isn't great.
But they probably won't and it's not going to be fine.
I think it's really hard to, and the thing is that I like to think that I try pretty
hard to reach consensus when we make a decision as a company.
I have never experienced that anywhere else and I suspect that is not very common and
I suspect that even as I'm talking about this and you're sitting there nodding, I'm not
always perfect at it, but- No, but there's a reason I'm still here
too.
I don't know.
I don't think I would find, I wouldn't need to agree with everything, but I don't think
I would find a place where I would agree with enough and I think that's basically what he's
run into here.
I've said this literally on the Wancho before, like I don't necessarily agree with everything
we've ever done, but I think that would be basically impossible and it's fine.
I think I do agree with the vast majority of things that we've done.
Wow, that did- You might want to give her a little more
juice.
Way less than I thought.
Hey, there we go.
Hey.
All right, good enough.
Nice.
I agree with everything that we've done and even when I don't agree with what we've done,
I can usually at least see the logic behind it.
I have worked places before where tons of things happened where no matter how hard I
try, I can't find the logic behind it.
The logic behind why the show is dark today, by the way, if you guys are joining us a little
bit late here, we're going to try to splice together the segments of the show, but we
were interrupted by a power outage.
We are going to run on battery for as long as we can here, guys, but the show might be
a little bit on the shorter side, which means I want to jump through our sponsor spots right
away to make sure that, hey, at least they're getting their money's worth here and they
don't ask for a refund.
The show is brought to you by Seasonic.
Seasonic's PrimeTX 1600 watt power supply is a great choice for high performance system.
Look, I'm not going to not get through the sponsor spots, okay?
I was brought in on my Friday.
I'm supposed to be on vacation this week, darn it.
We are doing the land show.
It features an 80 plus titanium rating, which means that less power gets wasted during power
conversion.
Dan, do you have the sponsor lower thirds?
Oh, they're on the server, aren't they?
Okay, we're living without them today.
Seasonic's experience in designing hardware shows in their hybrid mode, a fan control
option that enables users to keep their power supply silent and they back their PSUs up
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So if you're building a new system and looking for a power supply, check out what Seasonic
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Finally, the show is brought to you by Vessi Footwear.
Vessi Footwear claims their shoes are 100% waterproof and I've yet to get any snow through
the ones that I was wearing today in the snow.
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Their dual climate knit material keeps your feet warm during winter and cool during the
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I've actually been wearing them quite a bit lately.
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extended period.
So I started wearing the Vessis and it's a hard habit to break.
They're like, they're all right.
You know, my girlfriend bought Vessis without realizing that they were a sponsor of us.
Did she even get the discount?
No, I don't think so.
I didn't know that she even had them and she was talking about how much she liked her shoes
because no water got through them.
And I was like, oh, we have a sponsor that makes highly water resistant shoes.
They're called Vessi.
And she's like, oh, I have Vessis.
How did this happen?
But yeah, it's actually, that's actually a true story.
What do you want to talk about?
I want to get through these rapid fire topics because I want to see if you can sniff out
which one of them was written by chat GPT.
So do you want me to read them and you can read through the notes and think about it
or how do you want to do this?
Let's just do it like we normally would.
You know, I'll do one, you do one, let's get through all three of them and then I'll do
my best.
All right.
First up, we've got Eufy Admits They Lied.
This has been a developing story over, man, like a month now, hasn't it?
In a blog post addressed to Eufy security customers and partners, Anchor, the parent
company of Eufy, admitted to using the cloud to send mobile push notifications with small
preview images, which are protected by end to end encryption and deleted shortly after
being sent, okay?
The company also admitted to a security flaw in the live view feature on its web portal,
but denied that any user data had been exposed or that facial recognition data was sent to
the cloud.
Eufy has made changes to the feature to require users to log into the web portal in order
to view live streams or share active links to them.
The company stated that it is committed to reducing the use of the cloud in its security
processes wherever possible and that it complies with all industry standards.
Discussion question here is how much does an incident like this really tarnish a brand
or its bottom line?
I don't know.
It depends how mainstream it is.
I think it varies a lot.
Yeah.
I think it depends how mainstream the reporting on the negativity surrounding it is as well.
How much competition there is in the space.
That too.
You can talk day in and day out about what a toxic company Nvidia might be or Apple might
be and it's not going to stop people from buying their products.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Whereas Eufy, I feel like did not have as strong of a brand to begin with and so much
of the strength of their brand, at least based on the messages I'm seeing about it, was around
that promise that they didn't upload anything to the cloud.
So yeah, I could see it being extremely damaging.
And there's quite a few competitors and there's competitors that are bigger names.
So this could be a hugely negative impact.
Kind of an underdog.
Yeah.
Our second discussion question is, if you became CEO of this company one week before
the revelations, I hope the AI wrote this discussion question because this is a great
discussion question.
I suspect it was James who wrote this discussion question though.
I don't remember.
I think all the discussion questions might be people.
I had a meeting with Riley and James this week about sort of... Because we added, Luke
and I added a bunch of topics to the doc right before the show went live last week.
And Riley sent me the world's saddest email.
It was pretty sad.
Being like, you know... We work really hard on these topics.
I would be really nice to know if you're just like, would prefer other topics.
And I'm like, oh Riley, I'm sorry.
It's not you, it's me.
Let's have a meeting next week and kind of talk about why we changed them.
And one of the things that... It wasn't just like me laying down an edict or whatever,
but one of the things that came out of our discussion... You're a genius, Jake.
He's got a... Jackery.
A Jackery.
Yeah.
Speaking of sponsors, there's five?
We're streaming one show.
Let's go.
I'm coming to eat my Triple O's on the show.
Heck yeah, Jake.
Do it.
All right.
Wait, what were we talking about?
All right.
Yeah.
I think what we came to together was that part of choosing a good topic is looking at
what the discussion topics will be.
Because if the discussion topic is, is this bad?
Yeah.
Yes.
Then there's nothing to really talk about.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's bad.
We need some back and forth.
Okay.
Well, but why is it bad?
How is it bad?
Who was bad?
Where was it bad?
We've got to be able to... There's got to be some meat on the boat.
There's got to be a discussion in the discussion question.
Yeah.
What we're noticing is our discussion topics, our discussion questions are so much better
because I think we're choosing topics based on how rich the discussion can be.
Yeah.
If you wanted to truly make things right, if you were the CEO of this company one week
before this happened, so you can't alter course.
All you can do is react to it.
What would you have done differently?
So I actually vaguely referenced this on the last show that we talked about, Yuffie, which
I don't think was our last show.
I think it was two shows ago or something.
And this might tank the company.
But what I said was they effectively had to recall devices.
And I still kind of defend it.
And yeah, it might tank the company, I don't know.
But they advertised on local only.
It is not local only.
They're not going to be able to change the... Maybe you can.
I doubt it.
I don't think they're going to be able to change that.
Certainly not immediately.
So maybe another option is offer full refunds.
Send out an email explaining everything that's going on.
Be very transparent.
Admit the things you got to admit.
Offer a full refund.
And if the user doesn't take it, they don't take it.
So the CEO in me would be trying to avoid a full, we refund everything.
So I think you have to do the offer.
That's kind of the end.
Yeah.
You just tank the whole company.
Yeah.
You might as well just say, see you later.
Yeah.
At that point.
And I don't mean as an F.U. to the customers that that would be the right thing to do.
I mean, you just might not survive it.
You just spent so much money on R&D, you spent so much money on tooling, you spent so much
money on manufacturing, you spent so much money on shipping, now you have to pay for
more shipping.
Yeah.
To take it all back.
And you didn't gain anything.
Yeah.
So what I would be trying to do is offer that option because you kind of have to.
Yeah.
But I would be trying to come up with a more compelling option that doesn't hurt me quite
so much.
Yeah.
Right?
So I might be looking at, okay, if I can convince you to keep this in its current state and
I can send you the new working one when we get there.
Yeah.
Can we do that?
Or I would be looking for-
I don't know if there's a subscription, but maybe you give them six months for free or
something.
Yeah.
If I could keep this in its state for now, but I could get you to what we promised in
six months, can you accept that?
I'd be trying to look for, because ultimately, right?
What the customer wanted was that product.
Yeah.
So what I would be trying to figure out is, is there any way without taking back everything
to get you what you paid for?
Yeah, there is some problems with that due to-
I know.
But-
You already broke the trust.
Yeah.
So you have to throw in a bonus because you have to do more than just get them what they
paid for.
Well, there's some technical problems with that too.
For sure.
Getting notifications on local phones or remote phones, all this type of stuff.
For sure.
But I understand the core idea of what you're saying.
But I'd be trying to look for a way to kind of go, okay, it's going to take us some time.
We're going to have to do this to make it up to you, some kind of partial refund or
some kind, which is often not actually possible.
You ran into this a little while ago, where you were not able to issue someone a partial
refund through PayPal because it had been 180 days.
They requested far past a reasonable date.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And PayPal literally wouldn't allow Luke to do it because I guess the assumption from
their point of view is that it must be under duress.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
I think their thing is they don't want to deal with... Because I think if you, if I
remember correctly, if you do a refund within the terms, the fees and whatnot get refunded
as well.
Right.
And there can be accounting challenges for everyone up and down the chain, right?
Because if you have already remitted the taxes you collected, let me tell you something.
The state of California ain't going to be giving you back those taxes you remitted.
Yeah, no chance.
No matter who you refunded, whatever you refunded to.
Yeah.
So there's challenges.
You're just eating it.
Yeah.
And the reporting for that would be a nightmare.
I don't even know how you would account for it, right?
So it's a nightmare.
So yeah, I'd be trying to look for a compromise, but I agree with you.
You don't have a choice.
You have to offer the option.
You have to do something.
You have to offer the option.
And a bunch of people are going to take it, but if you are sincere and you are open and
this time you're honest, you might have a solid amount of people that don't run.
But they didn't do that.
They did not.
It's been so long.
And honestly, this response seems kind of half baked as far as I'm concerned.
Someone just needs to sue the trash out of them.
They're not going to be successful.
A suing them?
It's a Chinese company.
Oh, right.
What are they going to do?
Yeah, fair enough.
Nothing.
Like China's going to protect their own.
Get them banned from selling in the states or something?
Yeah.
And so I just, from my point of view, anchors on our list at this point, which is unfortunate.
We really enjoyed working with them actually.
I really liked Anchor.
I genuinely liked the products.
Me too.
So it sucks because finding good long-term sponsor partners is not something that's easy.
And I feel for the poor sales team here, right?
Because when I just rug pull them and I go, hey, yeah, that account that you've been handling
that's doing however many thousands of dollars a year, guess what?
You're not working with them anymore by edict of the king.
Like that sucks, right?
Oh, it does.
Absolutely.
Like imagine you worked in sales somewhere, right?
Your boss comes into the room and says, yeah, certain quotas and all this type of stuff.
Yeah.
That, that car that's on the lot, you can't sell that car anymore.
Yeah.
Or like you, you can't work with a, you know, I don't know, families.
Anytime a family walks on the lot, you can't sell them anymore or whatever it is, right?
Kind of frustrating.
Like that's, that sucks.
What?
I just let them walk by.
I just let them walk by.
I got quotas to hit, right?
That sucks.
So let me do my job.
That's just the way it's going to have to be though.
I think I just don't see a way out for us.
We can't in good conscience continue to work with them.
We have to have standards.
The way out of this topic though, is transitioning into Nvidia ending game stream and recommending
steam link, which was really weird and surprising to me.
Nvidia has announced that it will be ending its shield TV game stream feature in February
2023 in response users have expressed frustration and disappointment with some arguing that
the steam link app recommended by Nvidia as an alternative is just not as good.
For example, some users have reported that steam link has lower quality video, less responsive
controls or slower speeds compared to game stream.
Others have complained that the apps interface or the need to purchase a separate device
to use it.
Now separate device.
I mean, you already needed an Nvidia Android device to use game stream.
So I don't know if I really buy that one because you can install steam link on a shield.
To be fair.
It's a separate device compared to what, Oh, I see.
Yeah.
Ah.
Yeah.
So I don't agree with that.
However, I do think that Nvidia's investment into game stream was, um, a real one and a
good one.
It was a good product and it was one that I personally was very enthusiastic about.
And I've used steam link and they're right.
It's not as good.
It just, I want steam link to be great, but it's just not there.
There are alternative options like moonlight.
That's dependent on game stream.
Oh, is it really?
I thought it just used the encoder.
I didn't think it actually piggybacked on game stream.
I'm not 100% certain in, in my completely independent of writing this article research.
I heard that it's dependent on game stream.
Oh, that sucks right now due to the power issues we're having.
We don't actually have chat.
These local laptops do not have internet at all.
Yeah.
We're working on that, but for now we got nothing.
So I can't, I can't look into any of this and I can't see what you guys are saying,
but uh, some have suggested using sunshine, which is a game stream host for moonlight
as an alternative.
Do you have a sim tool?
Do I have a sim tool?
I do.
I know.
Um, we should have at least like three hours.
Three hours.
Let's go.
There's a Jackery plugged into the UPS.
There's a Jackery plugged into the UPS.
Jackery has a 20F plug.
It has a 20 amp plug.
Of course it does.
Uh, shout out shout.
They didn't sponsor the wan show today, but they might as well have shout out Jackery
for like sending us a new Jackery every time we do any kind of work with them.
So we just have this pile of Jackeries that we keep charged in the event of an emergency
with good reason and are now using, which is amazing.
Oh, you can use your phone.
Yeah.
My phone has internet, so perfect.
I'm keeping it away from the cables because there's crazy feedback that comes through,
but whatever.
Um, because Moonlight uses Nvidia game streams, Nvidia's game stream protocol.
It is unclear if it will still work after the mid February update.
So it might work might, but maybe not forever or it might just not, God, we have, we have
no idea.
Uh, a petition, this isn't going to work.
A petition on change.org has been created to try to reverse the decision to shut down
game stream.
Um, the petition itself isn't going to work at all.
Uh, maybe pressure in general towards Nvidia will do something.
Uh, but no one has carried about petitions since like the internet started.
Um, yeah.
So it's just a thing.
Uh, yeah.
Which is unfortunate to be clear.
We're not saying it should be that way.
No just hasn't seemed to have any kind of effect.
If you really want to get a company's attention, I would say that a hundred tweets to their
corporate handle is going to be a hundred times more effective than 10,000 signatures
on a change.org petition.
Especially if you get a bunch of people to do it at a very similar time so you can get
it to trend or something like that or, and, and added at a time over an extended period
of time.
You need this to, because the thing is you can't rely on just the, the low level customer
interaction layer.
It has to make it pass them into middle management, into upper management, and an upper manager
has to hear it from multiple sources before they will even begin to consider it.
And it has to still be going because if it starts and then it dies off before it hits
that level, the person at that level is just going to go, look, it's already over.
Yes.
It's fine.
This is clearly resolved.
Yeah.
So if you are upset, you have to make noise.
You have to continue to make noise and then you have to not stop making noise and you
have to hope a lot of other people are doing the same thing.
Yeah.
If you're by yourself, it's not going to accomplish much.
I mean, man, I see this in a number of different ways.
I haven't touched game stream in a long time.
I was just going to say I have three shields in my house and I haven't touched it.
As much as this sucks, it might ultimately be what Nvidia needs to do as much as we just
told everyone how to complain about this properly.
If not enough people are using it and if it's not really a driver for people to purchase
their products, et cetera, and it's this huge cost sink, like companies or companies.
Yeah.
And Nvidia is definitely a company.
Oh, heck yeah.
So like if it's, there are some cost sinks that companies will keep around, cough, cough,
the forum.
That doesn't cost that much.
Not really.
It's not a huge cost sink, but it definitely loses money.
Yeah, not a ton, but it's negative.
But like you can't do that with everything.
Game stream is probably a relatively complicated thing to keep updated and working with everything
all the time and performance and whatnot.
So like I'm not happy this is going away.
And I'm sure that the people who like started the change.org petition and the people that
are really angry about this are people who have heavily integrated this into their setups
and that sucks.
Yep.
That's the thing.
That's what Apple is so good at.
They don't always have the best product, but dammit, that sucky product in their walled
garden with their stupid limitations is going to still exist in five years.
Yep.
Not always.
I mean their servers went away.
What else could I point at as, I mean their professional desktops effectively went away,
and came back for one generation and seem to have gone away again.
They're not perfect, but if you buy an iPhone, you can expect continuity.
You can expect that software for iPhone will still be an option on newer hardware that,
I mean, 3D touch by and large works the same way that the old one did, but more better.
Like that is something that just plain sucks on the PC, Android, more wild west open side
of things.
Like, okay, we did a video right before the WAN show on this wireless GPU.
Okay.
There was a 460 that had five antennas hanging off of it, GTX 460, all got all these antennas
hanging off of it, has this receiver dongle that comes with it that has an HDMI out that
goes into any HD display, and it was meant to be an all-in-one solution for wireless
display.
Okay.
Super cool product.
But if you buy into that, literally design your home theater set up around it thinking,
I'm definitely going to have an upgrade path for this over the next few years.
I'm going to integrate this into my life.
You're an idiot because it's not going to happen.
To be fair, it's Nvidia.
I don't think Nvidia has killed a lot of their projects.
I can't think of a time.
Sorry.
Yeah.
But the whole world.
Physics was around for a long time.
Yeah.
And it's technically still around, but not in the form that was promised to us in the
days.
Agreed.
And in the wake of the Nvidia acquisition, Nvidia abandon wears things.
They do.
They do.
I guess my brain just keeps comparing it to Google and it's like, no, not really.
But yeah, those are a few examples.
Yeah.
The shield portable.
Handheld.
Handheld.
Gaming consoles.
What happened to those?
One and done.
Boom.
See you later.
Now Nvidia kills stuff.
Let's not kid ourselves.
Fair enough.
Fair enough.
Um, and so, and so that really sucks.
And that's one of the reasons that smart home has, that smart home technology has been such
a struggle, right?
Because there's no ecosystem that you can buy into and just hope for continuity.
Well, you can buy into it and hope, but you're, but it's not going to come true.
And so our discussion question here is to what extent does the removal of something
like game stream represent a broken promise to customers of the Nvidia shield?
We can use way back machine at this point to go look at the marketing of the shield.
Look at how prominently Nvidia featured this particular capability of the product in their
marketing and say, Hey, this is tantamount to outright false advertising at this point.
And this is something that is happening more and more like a perfect example is what Google's
done with their home, with their hub products and their, their nest home products where
that lawsuit from Sonos affected their ability to set up the product to such an extent that
it is extremely user unfriendly now.
I mean, you, I'm sorry, but there has to be legislation put in place that says if you
advertise a fucking feature, you don't get to take it away with an update.
You can't update your product to make it worse.
My steam deck doesn't work, so I can't swear, but it's like it's the power zone is fine.
It's it's it's it's like the games recently as well, right?
We talked about these games, especially VR games.
There was a few of them that didn't sell super well, so they just completely offlined all
their servers, but they're online only games.
Like people bought them.
I don't even care if one person bought it.
You advertise this game, you shouldn't be able to shut down the servers like one year
later.
That's crazy.
That's ridiculous.
Or you should have to, as we've said so many times, you should have to release the server
side code and if nobody picks it up, all right, so be it.
But if you advertise the feature, then I think there needs to be legislation in place.
Your buttons not working, I found out that in good faith, you have to provide the community.
You have to give stewardship over to someone so that it can be maintained.
And I think when it comes to software, there's a vibrant enough open source community that
someone would take this and run with it.
I don't know if they're going to run with it as well as the, the subcom guys, but yeah,
there is still, there are communities outside of the just honestly, fairly stunningly awesome
Supreme Commander community.
There are communities outside of that that are running old games that have become a open
source or shareware in some way.
And it's, it's pretty cool.
We have one more.
Whoa.
Is that intentional?
Oh, I think they're using Jackery's to restore, wait, no, this is the power.
Is the power on?
No.
Okay.
Emergency lights.
They're using Jackery's to, to bring the lights back on.
Oh, it is back on?
The emergency lights are off, right?
That should.
Yeah, I think the power is back on.
Okay.
All right.
It's so lame.
The Jackery said three hours.
All right.
We've got this.
Can we turn this back on?
Yeah.
It might be.
Hey.
All right.
Cool.
It's that right there.
Is someone from Floatplane trying to figure out getting access to these files to kind
of stitch everything?
AJ's on it.
Yep.
You're an absolute French Canadian champion.
I'm sorry I had to qualify.
I'm fairly certain he's got the first one coming down already.
All right.
I don't know.
I don't think he's even heard at this point that we need the second one.
If you're watching this, AJ, I'm sorry, but it's true.
All right.
We're going to do our third, maybe written by AI topic.
Facial recognition was used to bar a lawyer, pun intended, from entering a venue.
And this maybe doesn't sound like that big of a deal, but it's a big deal.
A mother accompanying her daughter's Girl Scout troop to a Rockettes show at Radio City
Music Hall in Manhattan over the Thanksgiving weekend was denied entry after facial recognition
software allegedly identified her.
So this is before submitting any kind of identification or ticket or anything.
Kelly Conlon.
Imagine doing this to a lawyer on purpose.
Anyway, Kelly Conlon, the woman in question, works as a lawyer for a firm that is involved
in a personal injury claim against MSG Entertainment, the group that owns the venue.
She does not, however, practice in New York and is not involved in the particular case.
So Conlon claims she was approached by security and asked to produce identification after
passing through the metal detectors into the main lobby.
A sign in the lobby does state that facial recognition technology is in use for the safety
of guests and employees.
Interesting.
MSG Entertainment claims they have a policy that precludes attorneys pursuing active litigation
against the company from attending events at our venues until that litigation has been
resolved.
Brutal.
Absolutely brutal.
The heck timeline are we on, Luke?
Imagine going into, I don't even know if these exist.
Imagine going into an anchor, one random person who's never even heard of this story that
works at one of the companies here, walking into an anchor store and being told to leave
because they know that they're employed by the parent company of this company.
That has some kind of ongoing dispute.
Yeah.
Like this can of worms-
Well, it doesn't even have to be a dispute, right?
This can of worms is wild.
Imagine any Sonos employee was to try to use a Google service if they bought a Google home
and went to set it up and it used AI voice recognition to say, hey, we couldn't help
noticing that you're such and such from Google's hardware division, why don't you go F yourself
and yeah, that's pretty much it.
See you later.
Absolutely wild.
Yeah, that's crazy.
Absolutely crazy.
Discussion question.
What are your feelings about facial recognition being used to bar people from events based
on scraped data sets like this?
When is it appropriate?
When is it not?
Where's the line?
This is bad.
Wow.
I don't know.
I'm hotspotted.
I'm hotspotted.
Oh, okay.
I can check though.
I'll check.
Jinx, you owe me a ride home.
I mean, that was the plan.
I'm taking him for a ride in my new car.
Yeah.
Have you told anyone yet?
I haven't really talked about it yet.
I think that's the first public announcement.
That's the first public acknowledgement.
I don't know about appropriate, but one thing I'm going to throw out there is I think this
might become a big thing for political events.
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
Because if you can keep protesters out by knowing what their affiliations are based
on facial recognition, pairing that with public information like Twitter accounts or whatever
else and figuring out if you want to let people in, I think that's absolutely going to be
a thing.
I'm not going to take a stance on how I feel about the appropriateness of that.
I just see that happening.
I see this coming down to a Supreme Court tier, First Amendment kind of thing in the
US, and then I suspect Canada is going to pull their usual thing where we basically
just...
Copy what the US does.
Yeah, do whatever the US does.
Yeah.
We're a super cool independent country and we advance directly in step with the US.
Sometimes we ignore what they do, which is good.
Other times we ignore what they do and it's not as good.
Yeah.
Anywho, the point is that I think this is headed for the Supreme Court because I think
ultimately there's going to be a personal rights argument from both sides.
On the one hand, discriminating against someone based on their profession or their place of
work seems like pretty open shut, but on the other hand, to tell a venue that they do not
have the right to refuse service to an individual customer on their own bloody property also
seems pretty open and shut, right?
It's weird.
There's a strong argument both ways, strong argument.
There's a lot of technological stuff coming out right now that...
The law is so far behind.
Yes.
It doesn't help that half of the legislators in the Western world are septuagenarians as
far as I can tell.
No idea what's going on.
No idea what's going on.
Yeah.
Even the younger ones, quite frankly, could stand to be a little more tech savvy based
on a lot of the C-SPAN that I've seen.
Yep.
Yep.
Okay, so at least one...
Jake has apparently joined the show.
Oh no, he's not sitting in the producer cam, so we missed him.
Lean to the right, Jake.
Apparently he's here in case the power goes out again.
Things have gotten a little hairy this evening.
It's been a fun night.
My roof caved in.
That's a fun thing.
Minutes after leaving my apartment to come to work, I got a call from my girlfriend saying
that part of the ceiling had ripped through and it was raining in one of the bathrooms.
We thought it was a leak that we had previously found in the house that was caused by the
AC.
It wasn't that.
It was the roof of the apartment building was leaking into the attic and then ripped
through our ceiling.
So that was cool.
I haven't been able to go help with that, but she's been doing a great job of taking
care of that.
We missed a video with me before the show today reacting to our worst videos and he
should...
Okay, for real, I'm talking from the heart here, okay?
I have to commend your professionalism.
He showed up looking like an actual storm cloud, like jaw set, teeth clenched, pissed.
He turned on the camera and he's like, ha ha, this video is terrible.
Classic Luke.
It helps that they were actually pretty terrible.
We've made some stickers over the years.
There's one.
There's one that I had completely forgotten about.
I actually have no memory of it at all.
Hosted by Luke.
Hosted by...
Like clearly it's something that I did and it's bad.
It's really bad.
I...
Wow.
Yeah.
There's also a couple in there that I expected to see.
The Blackberry one.
The second I heard the premise of the video, I was like, Blackberry video, Blackberry video's
going to be in there.
It's awful.
Oh yeah.
It's terrible.
But yeah, that'll be a fun video.
I have done some stuff.
I didn't feel like as a mid 20 something that my sense of humor was probably going to change.
I felt like what I was doing and thought was funny then, I would probably still think is
funny in 10 years.
It's not funny.
We laughed at it.
We did laugh.
But we were laughing at me.
That WD video was so funny.
It was not funny.
It was cringe.
Yeah, I guess so.
It was cringe so hard that it goes all the way around back to funny.
There's a couple of comments about my birds.
The birds are fine.
My girlfriend got the birds back into cages.
They're covered.
Everything's fine.
We did not include the hide your porn one.
I don't even think that video was that bad.
I think that video did okay.
It might be cringy.
The humor is probably terrible.
Oh.
If that is anything we've ever done.
I think performance wise, I think it did fine.
I'll always remember the script review meeting for that because Luke wrote some cringy.
It was his idea to have basically a lot of the shots be suggestive.
And then I think that you thought, do you remember this?
Not with full clarity.
I think that you thought I was going to come in and tone it down.
And then I amped it up to the point where even you were kind of like, oh, this is pretty
bad.
That honestly sounds about right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
2.2 million views on that.
Yeah.
It's pretty good from seven years ago.
There's some real tech tips in there.
I mean, I don't know how relevant most of them are now that incognito mode and like
just everything being shockingly easily accessible as a thing.
Yeah.
I guess it would help it hide from you.
Like your parents do a certain degree, but incognito mode isn't really enough.
I know.
I'm pretty sure true crypt was in there, which isn't really a thing anymore.
So like it's, it's definitely a little dated, but like it probably useful still.
Okay.
Back to it though.
I've listed three core topics, Eufy, Nvidia, facial recognition, some amount, I haven't
told them how many, it could be all of them.
It could be one, it could be two, some amount of them were written massaged slightly so
that it fits our format a little bit better.
But written with some minor edits by chat GPT.
And now you need to try to identify which ones I also, because I think this is important
and interesting.
Want to know why you think this for each one, man, the fact that the fact that it's this
tough is very interesting.
Okay.
But the fact that a human went through and massaged it, that is true, but it's true.
Makes it really, I don't know how much of that was done cause it wasn't me.
James prepared this.
I do know that he said like many of these are like full sentences.
Like he, he mostly shaped it instead of changed it.
If that makes sense.
That's, that's my understanding.
It's been a bit, a lot has happened since, since I talked to, I think the one was written
by chat GPT, okay.
That's the only one that I think for sure was written by chat GPT.
So you get one point.
You get, okay, no, you get, hold on, hold on, hold on.
Okay.
He hasn't explained the point.
So I think I can still clarify further.
I think that the Nvidia one was written by a human.
Okay.
I am not sure about the facial recognition one.
I don't know how to give you points anymore.
You got one, right?
Okay.
You got one wrong and you got one, maybe I guess the, the answer to the facial recognition
one, the facial recognition one was written by a human.
Both of the other two are chat GPT.
Shoot.
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
Wow.
Pretty crazy.
Eh?
Yeah.
So we, we've talked about this privately and I don't have this prepared.
But someone made a, I wish, I wonder if I can bring it up here.
I mean, just so that you guys can see what the notes look like for these, because that
might not be something that will translate perfectly for you.
Here's the Eufy topic.
What's the reason that I thought that it was chat GPT was because it was far less editorialized
than some of our writers tend to there's, there's also things like in a blog post addressed
to Eufy security customers and partners, but anchor all of it's properly capitalized.
There's a few things that can make it slightly.
This one though, the fact that it like really talked about, you know, what's going on around
this.
So I will add some context.
Yeah.
It wasn't done.
And some people in the stream will know this and I think you'll know this.
It wasn't done by just saying like, Hey, summarize this link because it can't, can't do that.
It can't crawl the web.
So information was given to it.
Talking points were given to it and then it turned them into whatever.
So we gave it notes still.
Yeah.
One of them, uh, James gave it, I think it was like five or six links.
It gave it the links and like a five word blurb for each link.
That was the Nvidia one actually.
Um, it, I wonder if I have a screenshot, I don't know if I'd be able to find it.
Uh, it's in my team, so I wouldn't be able to show it very effectively on stream.
But just very little information, but from information that is naturally in the URL of
something that isn't obfuscated and the little tiny like three to five word little snippet
of each post, it wrote this Nvidia article, which is like pretty good.
It was a hundred percent enough for us to go off of super, super interesting.
Um, w I was talking to Linus the other day about, um, Oh, this is not even the one that
I found.
I Googled it.
I found a different one.
So more than one person has done this, which is interesting.
I go to your laptop.
Um, I guess, I think this is what, yeah, you can go to it.
So this is a, I don't know, every dot T I've never heard of this before.
I built an AI chat bot based on my favorite podcast.
Um, this is a different person though than the one that I linked to you.
And it's not the exact same thing, but it's extremely close.
This one looks like a command line thing, whatever.
I don't know.
So the one that I had found, it's an actual website that you can go to.
These are both based off of the Huberman lab podcast.
But people have taken, I'm assuming I have not read this article.
The other one, I know this is how this works and I'm assuming this person did it in the
same way.
They use a different open AI product.
So they fed all of, uh, doctor Huberman's podcasts through whisper, which is another
open AI product, which transcribes audio to text.
And then they fed all of the text into GPT three, and then they made it so that you can
ask the chat bot effectively questions about what dr Huberman says in his podcasts.
And it will go through all of the transcripts of all of these like three hour long, super
dense podcasts, and it will pull answers out for you.
The other one will also cite its references.
So it'll say like, I got this from this podcast at this minute and you can click on it.
It'll bring up the podcast at that timestamp.
So you can listen to the original audio just in case you don't trust the transcription.
This is super interesting for like a bunch of reasons.
This is terrifying for content creators podcast industry.
Yeah.
Because you are a very information dense podcasts like the Huberman lab podcasts, because now
people don't have to listen to your content or consume it at all.
These random people on the internet just made a way completely detached from your content
that you have absolutely no way of being paid for.
Nope.
And they made a way for people to completely bypass all of your stuff.
It's super helpful for users that want to pull information out of it.
It's super not helpful for you being able to grow your channel or your audience or continue
to do it at all.
Really.
So from a copyright standpoint, though, man, see, it's just like the artist thing, right?
So there's nothing inherently wrong with AI generated or machine learning generated artwork.
The issue is how it was trained and proper compensation for the data set that it was
trained on.
And we've talked about this extensively enough in last week and the week before that.
I don't think we need to tread over it again this week, but basically there's no problem
with a bot that compiles answers to questions as long as it is properly compensating whoever's
original work was used to train it.
But as of this time, that's not being done and there is no framework whatsoever for that
to be done.
So for the same reason that artists are crying foul about their artwork being used to train
their machine replacement, I could see a podcaster crying foul about their body of work, their
body of copyrighted work being used to create a tool that irrelevance their copyrighted
work.
And I don't think you're going to be able to make a very solid fair use argument for
something like this, because yes, for personal use, you could probably make the argument
that there is nothing wrong with watching all of the episodes, therefore having all
of the words for yourself and making those words, creating an index of those words and
a way to recall various words in some way.
But as soon as you make it more broadly available, especially commercially available, that falls
apart.
So all the ones that I've seen so far have not been commercially driven.
One interesting one, the first one that I found, and I don't know why I can't find it
right now.
I'm sure I could if I use my Google FU a little bit more effectively, but the first one that
I found, the whole thing is open source too, you put it all on GitHub.
And the fact that multiple people have done this already, prove that it's not really that
hard.
The person that I had looked into originally said it took him less than a day, because
the process is all kind of already there.
You're just sort of linking things together, right?
We've got a couple of interesting viewer comments here.
So Eric RC on Floatplane says, Linus, I disagree.
I don't believe most people listen to podcasts just for answers.
There's a definite entertainment value.
But this is just like what I was talking about earlier, where just because you don't need
to put your laptop to sleep doesn't mean that I don't.
So yeah, this podcast, I don't think anyone necessarily...
No one needs to search this for information, or it's unlikely, but someone could.
Yeah, because we're going to be a secondary source a lot of the time unless you're looking
for information about like my life or Luke's life or whatever else the case may be.
And if that's the case, probably it would be more interesting to hear it as told by
us anyway.
I think the WAN show is a more entertainment show anyhow.
And I'm not saying that because there's some kind of like liability, oh, advice on the
WAN show should be taken for entertainment purposes only.
It's just, I do think that that's the show that we try to run for you guys.
But that doesn't mean that every podcast is like that.
Some of them are very Q&A driven, very information driven.
Hubermans are extremely information driven.
There are also lots...
I'm not that entertaining.
There are also lots of...
No, I don't know about that one.
Sure.
But there is a lot, you're right though, there is a lot of educational or informational based
podcasts.
There's tons of science based podcasts.
There's tons of even like a...
It's more about keeping up with the industry and less about being entertained.
Yes.
Right?
Yeah.
And so...
Or like imagine there's a self-help podcast.
Sure.
You might look for answers to somewhat common self-help questions by using this thing.
Whatever it is, there are lots of not just like storytelling entertainment style things.
And so that's a big challenge.
And an ethereal llama says, isn't this part of the territory when you post free content
on the internet though?
No.
No.
The content isn't free.
We've talked about this before and some people are never going to understand it, but that's
really just not my problem at a certain point.
The content isn't free.
There is an implicit agreement that the content is going to be supported in some way, otherwise
it won't exist.
Otherwise, it would explicitly be said that it is free.
Linus Tech Tips is not free.
Linus Tech Tips is paid for by actual money, which we get from ads or from subscriptions.
And it is possible that something is free, but that also does not mean that it's license
allows you to do this with it.
Correct.
There is a ton of different levels of variation when it comes to licensing.
And you could absolutely release a podcast with a license where you allow people to do
this.
Absolutely.
There's nothing stopping you from doing that.
You could say everything that I say into this podcast is free for everyone to use in any
way.
And no, I did not just say that about WAN Show.
But you could say that, but I do not believe that has been said by these people.
But what I was going to say is a dangerous intrusive thought that comes up when I've
already heard about this thing where they're taking podcasts and they're transcribing them
and stuff, what stops people from setting up an RSS feed of trusted news sites, setting
up a bot that is able to scrape the body of an article without grabbing all the ads and
the other junk that's on the page, taking all of that, feeding it to chat GPT, getting
chat GPT to rewrite it, and then getting another system that they make to automatically post
these actually, because chat GPT is pretty good at it, genuinely rewritten articles.
And then they put their own ads on them.
And then they just put their own ads on them.
Monetizing someone else's work.
Yep.
It's all automated.
Yep.
Like.
And so, you know what?
It's not going to completely destroy industries in a day.
No.
Maybe not even in a year.
Give it 10 years.
I mean, even three.
Yeah.
But it's going to be a very, that is already an entire news industry.
Yeah.
But it's usually junk.
And if you're like paying attention pretty much at all, you can usually kind of tell.
Well, you can.
A lot of people can't.
Fair enough.
Which is why we're...
But this, this moves that bar up quite a bit.
Yeah.
People have found a few different accounts because you can kind of prod them in the right
way.
They, people have found a few different Twitter accounts that are using AI generated faces
as their profile that look extremely convincing.
Like you can't tell.
Especially at that size, at that resolution.
You really can't tell.
Yep.
And then they have fully chat GPT written tweets and replies, the whole account.
And the ones that I have kind of found with, with advice from other people on how to find
them, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
All of the ones that I've found, it looks like people are just experimenting.
I don't think they're really using them to any goal yet.
Yep.
But...
Yeah, it's...
It's gonna happen.
Yeah.
We're headed in an interesting direction.
And it's hard to find out.
LaRoe Doze says, what about content creators doing this themselves to search their podcasts?
I mean, yeah, we could, but what I can tell you is that right now there is no, like zero
effective way to monetize something like this.
And pretty much any podcast that you know and love, if it has any kind of monetization
on it now, if you were to say to the creator, Hey, why don't you use this tool where people
don't have to watch the podcast you monetize, and they can just get all the information
that they need without watching it and you monetizing it, why don't you do that?
They're going to be like, what, why some, some that like they really don't care about
their podcast as a career path or whatever, and they just want the information out there.
Absolutely.
Sure.
And again...
I did specify ones that are currently monetized.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
There you go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Pretty much.
And Kayam says, I mean, ad block is a thing.
What's your take on how this is different to that?
It's not...
What is taken?
It's pretty documented.
Yes.
I think I, I think I've been pretty clear about it.
The part that people got confused about is I never actually said, never use an ad blocker.
What I said is own it.
Yeah.
Just own it.
Yeah.
Understand what you're doing.
Put on your hat.
Yeah.
Wear your shirt.
Yeah.
We've even sold a shirt.
Yeah.
I like it.
Just own it.
It's a nice shirt.
That's all I said.
Just, just, just deal with it.
And if you have, like, if you feel all guilty about the word, then.
Maybe that's something to self-reflect on.
Then you should do some self-reflection.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But otherwise then just, yeah, just, just own it, just deal with it.
R, R, D, E, D for you.
Yeah, exactly.
A, D, F, A, K, L, S, D, J, E, F over on Floatplane says, I bought two shirts.
Yeah, you did.
I don't think, yeah, we very understandably, I, I will say, but I don't think we have been
doing a merch message curation at all.
Oh yeah.
We shoot.
Okay.
Where's Dan?
Is Dan still here?
I don't know.
I'm looking through them right now.
Uh, okay.
Uh, yeah.
Well, Hey, we've actually got an update on LTT store, speaking of ways that we will still
be able to survive because we are a mature, well-diversified company.
I don't mean mature, like we don't make fart jokes, joiks, jokes.
Um, I mean, mature, like we have developed a lot of revenue streams to help us weather,
uh, you know, whatever AI storms are headed this way, LTT store is a huge one.
I think I said this before, but a 2022 is the year that LTT stores revenue will be greater
than our media production revenue.
A massive shout out to all of you guys for making this possible.
Massive shout out to the team responsible for it.
Uh, Nick, Kyle, Bridget, Sarah Lloyd, oh my goodness.
I'm going to miss some people.
It's going to be really awful.
Uh, you know, Natalie, uh, Adam Nolan, uh, there's some new people in customer care.
I don't know their name yet, so I'm not going to include them, but you know, we got Hannah
Matthew along the day, uh, the team there is amazing.
Thank you.
Uh, massive, massive shout out to the float plane team for making that whole thing happen.
Like it's been, it's been a long time coming, but it means that our future as an independent
media company is basically assured as long as you guys continue to support us in that
way.
Uh, we've got a deal for you guys this week.
Uh, where is it?
Oh, wait.
It says lttstore.com deal of the week question mark.
I thought we did have something to talk about this week.
Oh, we have something I didn't talk about last week if nothing else.
Um.
Yeah.
Is that still running?
We launched the mystery hoodie.
Well, it's not a matter of like running or not.
Yeah.
It makes sense.
We just have a new product.
So the mystery hoodie is $49.99.
You don't know what hoodie you'll get, but you can find some hints in the, uh, in the
reviews that are up.
We ran this as a promo during the black Fridays, uh, period.
It's yeah, that's not the pricing that we're going to be doing for it in the longterm.
It's going to be 50 bucks, but we've got everything from small to triple XL and you guys can check
it out.
Mystery hoodie sales are final.
We do not offer returns or exchanges, but it is a way to get yourself into an LTT hoodie
for a pretty aggressive price.
Uh, we're also shipping backpacks in real time now.
They're not backordered in any way.
Uh, what else is there that I could really say about the store right now?
I mean, yeah, I guess that's, I guess that's probably, that's probably enough.
Um, all right.
And picking something up on the store is the way to send a message into the show.
They're called merch messages and they're better than super chats, better than Twitch
bits because all of the money you spend will go into something that you actually get to
keep and use and enjoy instead of lining the pockets of big tech.
That's our, that's our sales pitch.
And uh, if YouTube and Twitch and Facebook, uh, operated the same way as Twitter, I probably
wouldn't be allowed to say that, but hey, we never live streamed on Twitter, so whatever.
Deal with it.
Oh, we figured out afterwards.
You can't.
Periscope's dead.
Right.
Spaces is not the same thing.
So we couldn't.
Yeah.
Yep.
Uh, all right.
I guess we should do a couple.
Have you curated some?
I'm working on going through the incoming.
Dan's not here, so I'm going to go ahead and go through a couple of our curated ones and
we'll get back to some more topics here.
Should I talk about the big thing that happened this year?
Like the really big one, the one where we convened like a council of people to talk
about it.
It's, it's past the NDA date for it.
So I could talk about it like the first one, the really big event, the really big, maybe
the really big event that we talked about and ultimately decided not to, to do the second
event then.
So we talk about the second big event.
I'll let you think about it while I go through a couple of messages.
I don't think so.
I mean, I think it might be interesting for the people to have some idea.
It's also the kind of thing that if I worked here, I probably wouldn't want to hear about
it on the WAN show.
Yeah.
But I mean, are they used to it at this point?
Maybe.
I don't know, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing.
Atomic age, a silver on float plane says, do it cowards.
I mean, I would say the same thing if I was in the audience.
I do think you should probably discuss this with other internal people before we do though.
James Ryan says, do you have a recommendation for messaging into the show for people who
might not want to have a physical object show up, buy a gift card on LTT store and then
just never spend it, I guess, or spend it eventually.
Or gift it.
It's a gift card.
Yeah.
Give it to someone else.
It's a gift card.
Yeah.
At least that way you're not throwing away any money.
Yeah.
Right?
Yep.
Don't throw away money.
Because what's the overhead on a super chat, like 30%, 40%, something like that.
Something like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Why are you doing that?
Yeah.
All right.
Anonymous says, hey guys, wanting to get into IT soon and with the technical difficulties
experienced tonight, I was wondering how help desk issues are solved at LMG.
Is there an official ticketing system or just grab the nearest Linus?
There's no official ticketing system.
So you would first go to logistics with Dan being your main point of contact for that
sort of thing.
And then if he's not around, I believe there's someone else who is like, can kind of be helpful.
And then it's going to fall to Jake.
We actually have some documentation for catastrophic failures that Luke and Jacob and working together
on so that you'll have some docs that you can go to.
They're not really intended for the average user.
They're intended for more like a me or an Anthony to look at.
Or even people that work on it all the time.
It's mostly a like everything around you is on fire and everyone's panicking.
Let me go back to this thing so I don't actually have to think about it so I can put my mental
power elsewhere and just follow these steps and get everything back online as soon as
possible.
It also organizes all the information that you need, does stuff like that.
It's a good idea to have disaster recovery procedures.
It's something that I think we could do better, but it's something that also is working reasonably
well for us.
I think that because we are a company of relatively tech savvy people, we probably have a lot
fewer, I can't figure out how to open my email client.
My computer won't turn on.
Oh, it's not plugged in.
Yeah.
Then many companies would.
So it hasn't overloaded those guys yet.
But as we expand into more, say for example, like physical goods manufacturing, or we can't
expect people to have a high level of technical proficiency, like maybe they're a wizard with
a sewing machine, but you know, a computer, what's a computer, right?
I don't, I don't know.
Then we might have to deal with more of that and it might be something that we'll have
to address.
Kevin M. Can you test whether lifting a laptop by its palm rest causes a mouse click to be
able to register?
I frequently carry around my laptop while watching full screen videos and it's frustrating
having them pause all the time.
Both my XPS 15 and my LG gram do this.
So I, I curated this, I thought it was actually kind of an interesting question because I
have experienced this before too.
So like maybe something interesting for the labs to consider if they start getting into
laptop testing.
It can even be like a mostly pass fail.
Like if by lifting it at any point in these sort of designated areas, it causes a mouse
click to register then fail kind of thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's an interesting, interesting idea.
All right.
I'm going to submit that to Gary.
You might have to do the next one cause I'm typing an email.
Okay.
I'm actually going to do one that isn't curated yet, but I was just going to curate it.
So this is from Colin R. He said, what, what are your thoughts on the potential of AI generated
video game assets?
Do you think that, Oh, I found it again.
Do you think that engines like unity or unreal engine will develop tools for easy integration
of AI generated assets in the workflow?
I think they are absolutely going to be a thing.
I would highly suspect that both of those engines will eventually find some form of
integration including the potentiality of that integration.
Just being a tool that is built into that engine.
I have already seen examples of people using chat GPT input prompts into something.
I don't remember what it was.
It was some AI art program thingamajigger and it was making texture maps for models
that they made in 3d um, I saw that too.
Like CAD software.
So they were modeling like buildings and, or they were texturing like buildings and
stuff and some of them were surprisingly good.
Does it look perfect?
No, no, but I've seen games that were worse.
Yeah.
I've seen finished games that were a lot more relatively modern ones too.
Like yeah, that it's a hundred percent going to be a thing for sure.
Stable diffusion.
Was that it?
Yeah.
I think a bunch of people saw this.
It was, it was relatively trendy.
So yeah.
Absolutely wild.
All right.
You guys have got some more time to send in some merch messages.
Uh, the producer's back sup Dan, hello, how, how are, how are the, yeah.
Dan, you seen better days, my friend.
I live for this stuff.
Don't you worry.
Yeah.
Hell yeah.
Oh yeah.
That's good stuff.
This has been an absolute poo show today.
To be fair, this is good stuff.
Yeah.
We appreciate you guys sticking with us through the technical difficulties for once.
It wasn't our fault at all.
And I think the response to it was pretty good.
We got, you know what, if it hadn't been, if it hadn't been for a thing that I can't
really disclose that is special about the when show set up, I don't think our, I don't
think our stream would have even stopped even have coughed.
No, it was, it was just that that was the only problem.
And we will have that addressed for next time.
It was just one of those things.
We just didn't.
Yeah.
We didn't think about that.
The when show will need to continue through a power outage.
We are set up so that in the event of a longterm power outage, we can at least finish.
We can have one editor finished today's video.
That's kind of the, that's the bar, right?
And everyone else can shut down their work or shut down their computers and save their
work safely.
But now that we know that we could do this, I'm thinking daisy chain jackeries, I'm thinking
backup batteries on all the key pieces of infrastructure.
Let's go power off when show, yeah, we can do about three and a half hours, which is,
I mean, a lot of when shows get pretty close to that these days, but they don't go past
that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, I'm excited.
I'm excited.
This is great.
All right.
What else do we got today?
Apple to allow third party app stores inside loading in Europe due to digital markets act.
We talked about this a little bit last week, but it hadn't been fleshed out in the dock
because of a miscommunication.
So we're going to get into a little bit more detail.
One really quick thing.
Dan, are you on merch messages now?
I'm trying my best.
Got it.
If you guys can help, that'd be great.
Okay.
Apple has signaled that it will abide the EU's digital markets act and allow third party
app stores and side loading on iDevices.
This is exciting.
The DMA is intended to prevent abusive market power and allow new players to enter digital
markets.
Basically leveling the playing field against big tech.
It was signed into law in September, came into effect in November and active enforcement
will begin in May.
That is a fast timeline for such an earth shaking change to the way that these digital
markets have worked up until now.
Apple's objections to date have been numerous.
It will be confusing for users.
It will be a gold rush for the malware industry and a cyber criminals best friend.
This would destroy the security of the iPhone.
I'll be very interested to see if Apple's marketing around the security of the iPhone
changes.
I'm willing to bet they don't say the iPhone is not secure.
Yeah.
Hmm.
So maybe they can overcome this after all.
Interesting.
And they said Android experiences 5 million attacks per month.
Okay.
Yeah.
Um, and how many do they, yeah, incidentally, the news triggered a stock surge for dating
services and apps.
Oh wow.
You'll finally be able to have like, say for example, a pornography app on, on the, on
the app store.
Yeah.
Like Apple has long taken a, a moral high ground against certain types of content.
Interesting.
Well, unless it's in Safari web browser, nobody can use Apple software and hardware to view
such things.
Get real guys.
Um, while this is broadly seen as a victory for consumers, some are less sure.
Sammy Fathi, a writer for Mac rumor says that many questions remain on how Apple might implement
this and suggests that it might in effect force people to sideload.
Um, apps must be able to access services and sensors and sideloading could offer greater
control for apps than the app stores restrictions allow.
I have no idea of what Sammy's point is right now.
Uh, companies like meta and Spotify are incentivized to leave as they're in direct competition
with Apple and Apple and chafe under app stores rules.
Um, yeah, so no, what's actually going to happen is in order for Apple to maintain any
kind of revenue from the app store, they're going to have to take a less abusive cut and
they're going to have to relax their, their policies.
It's good.
This is good for consumers.
All you're doing is read.
Yes, yeah, Sammy, all you're doing is reiterating why this is good for consumers.
Um, okay, bit odd.
This is a problem.
This is a really good point.
Making sure that people are running the latest app revision this way is going to be a major
issue for developers versus just having the app store manage this.
Um, that's going to be messy.
And then this third point, basically it's a mess all around.
I disagree.
Um, Android already allows sideloading.
No it is not a mess all around.
Most users, I promise you don't sideload anything and it'll probably be the same way, but if
Apple has major cash cow apps come to them one after another, after another, after another,
this is finally a way for partners to put pressure on Apple to actually be partners
rather than servants of Apple rather than just being grateful that Apple gives them
the privilege of being part of their, their fiefdom or whatever.
Um, limited sideloading is already a thing on iOS.
So yeah, things might not change that much, but right now it's very restrictive.
Users have to import a certificate to do so.
It has to be refreshed weekly to function.
If you aren't a developer, there's an app limited free, um, alt store.
I've never even heard of this.
It's apparently a third party app store that automatically refreshes the certificates.
Now this discussion question, who's right here and why I think I've made my position
pretty clear.
Uh, this is a win for consumer choice.
And again, this is one of those things where if you're an Apple user who wants to only
use the app store, then by all means you should have no objection to this for everyone else
because you can keep just using the app store.
Go for it.
I don't want to, and I don't like Apple's monopolistic behavior, so I might choose to
do something else.
It's called consumer choice.
You have the choice to do it that way.
And this is effectively a legislative body stepping in and saying, yeah, Apple has not
in good faith provided consumer choice has not in good faith, put themselves on a level
playing field with their competitors on their ecosystem and has behaved in a monopolistic
way.
If they had, if they had acted in good faith, this probably wouldn't have come to bite them,
but they didn't.
And so it has too bad.
I don't feel bad for them.
I just can't.
They've been just arseholes to deal with.
Yeah, absolutely.
At like every turn they've made their bed.
Now they sleep in it.
Yeah.
I'm glad the EU actually has the stones to do this.
Now the next discussion question is what would a more open iPhone look like?
Would you be more or less likely to buy one if it supported third party app stores and
sideloading because man with sideloading, I'm imagining anyway, a lot more functionality
that I just can't get unless I want to jailbreak the stupid thing.
Yeah.
I think it really depends.
It depends what services start putting themselves up to be sideloaded.
It depends if, if users really start actually doing it at all.
Because if users don't do it, then companies aren't going to bother running that setup
anyways.
Like there's a lot of variables there.
I think it's one of those things where like first generation of it might not necessarily
matter too much, but it will be interesting to see how it evolves over time.
I have another discussion question.
Would flow plane just immediately go the sideloading route or would we try and stay on the app
store?
Cause I know which way I lean right now, but let's have executive dialogue here.
Let's talk about synergies.
One problem with sideloading and one of the reasons why we've avoided sending out packages
like that in the past is updates.
We don't have an in-app updater that is something that is possible, but that is a tool that
we would have to make.
Which costs money.
Yeah.
So I don't know, it really depends.
I could definitely see someone making like some open source package updater for iPhones
or something.
Yeah.
Or an alternate app store.
Or that.
Might have their own updater.
Yeah.
So if, I mean, there's a lot of potential there.
There's definitely a lot more we could do with the app if we could just let it get sideloaded.
There's a lot of things that we've been stopped from doing.
Like we'll get, we'll get complaints.
People will email customer support and they're like, Hey, this isn't very intuitive.
It's like, you are 100% correct.
I completely agree with you.
And I apologize that there's nothing we can do about it because like we can't, they're
like, it would be really great if when I go to try to do this thing, it could tell me
that like, I have to do it on the website and it's like, yep, that would be awesome.
But we can't.
We can't send you to our website.
Sorry.
It is what it is.
It's ridiculous.
It's just, and they've gotten a little bit better with it over time, but like it's still
far from what I would consider acceptable.
Yeah.
I think the merch messages are much more under control.
There's three potentials, no incoming, and then we have 15 curated, so we have a lot
to go through, but the wave has subsided.
Let me jump through a couple of these really quickly.
Magic games is going to be paying half a billion dollars for COPPA violations and the use of
dark patterns.
Are you familiar with dark patterns?
Yeah.
I would think that you would be good.
Then why don't you explain them?
Cause you probably know more about them than I do.
A dark pattern, and I apologize if I explain this poorly, but a dark pattern is like trying
to mislead or trick users in certain ways.
Like manipulate your website or your service so that...
Manipulate the appearance of things, manipulate the user experience of things like where you
position different buttons, manipulate things to try to funnel people in a certain direction,
which is probably not something that they would want to do.
Yeah.
So like if you, if you kind of obscure your sign up to a newsletter thing and it's a check
box and it's automatically checked, but it's like really small and it's somewhere that
you wouldn't expect.
That'd be a dark pattern.
That'd be a dark pattern.
Or if you have like a, like a buy now button, okay, for a product someone might want.
And then in very small text it says, you authorize us to send you one of these every month.
Yeah.
And you didn't realize that you were signing up for a subscription service.
That would be, that would be a dark pattern.
So it's using subtlety to get users to do inputs that are not what they actually want.
So a $245 million of the settlement is in refunds for dark patterns and billing practices
that essentially made it too easy to make purchases in game, often accidentally according
to the FTC.
It is claimed that Epic would intentionally switch button positions to create situations
where charges were made with a single button press.
Charges would also be made when the game would be woken from sleep mode through these dark
patterns of deceitful UI.
Until 2018, Epic would allow charges to be made without cardholder action or approval.
So by default, simple button presses would lead to charges.
The rest of it is for violating the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act, COPPA, by not
including adequate parental controls, collecting children's personal information without parental
consent, and using overly relaxed privacy settings that included text and voice chat
being active by default, which I think we can all agree is not good when kids are gaming
online.
I don't want to hear their annoying voices.
Sorry, what were you talking about?
Other examples, by the way, can include things like some of these were brought up in full
plane chat.
If you're trying to like unsubscribe from something, the like cancel button being really
big and obvious and the unsubscribe button being like a hyperlink that you can barely
even tell as a button.
One that you see fairly often with subscriptions, man, I was okay.
So a little while ago, my grandfather passed away and we were going through and canceling
some of his online subscriptions and accounts and things.
And he had Amazon Prime.
Canceling Amazon Prime is hard.
Why is it so hard?
Because Daddy Bezos needs more yachts.
And I legitimately think I almost, man, I had told myself I wanted to rage on the land
show about this and I think I forgot about it, but I think it's genuinely like oppressive
to old people.
Because it's really confusing and they like move around where you need to press the cancel
button and they frame it in a bunch of really weird ways.
And like the website feels like it degrades.
Like it feels like you go back to like 1990s internet because you get these like weird
ancient UIs as you're going through.
Like it's very weird.
You feel like you're doing something wrong.
Like it just, it's so not okay in my opinion.
I don't know.
It like actually bothered me a lot.
I already don't exactly have the most positive relationship with Amazon.
So I do have to consider that.
But it was actually like really terrible.
Yeah, Luke was probably in more of a hurry to cancel a Prime subscription than most people
would be.
Yeah, that's probably fair enough.
But like another thing, and this is not a drag on him, he had multiple Amazon accounts
that we ended up figuring out.
Really easy to accidentally do that.
Had multiple Prime subscriptions.
It should be way harder to do that.
Like I just, man, I don't know.
Someone in full plain chat just said, I'm a CIS admin and it took me 20 minutes to cancel
Prime.
It should be one click.
That should not be okay.
Like that's actually crazy.
I don't know.
In my opinion, that's an extremely egregious version of like a dark pattern.
Yeah.
It's trying to push people to not do the thing that you don't want them to do.
So yeah.
I just wanted to read this comment from Jedi2 tagging Dan.
You guys handled the outage well.
Very impressed the show wasn't canceled tonight.
Luke and I have a streak.
Okay.
It's not allowed to happen.
I've never entered my mind that the show was not going to go on tonight.
I will not be responsible for breaking the streak.
No one here is going to be the one to break the streak.
I was told that I have too much vacation time recently, so I had to book some vacation time.
And when I was trying to figure out when I could book it, I was describing like, okay,
I could do these things, whatever.
I was like, I can't take Fridays off.
It's just, it's not an option.
WAN show must go on.
When I was traveling, I technically had those Fridays off, but I was just like, no, I'm
on vacation this week.
Yeah.
Perfect example.
You know that it's going to happen.
WAN show must go on.
I'm on vacation right now.
What's up?
Speaking of things that might've brought people back from vacation.
This isn't really properly in the doc, but the writeup by Scotty Seng on the forum is
quite good.
I'm going to use that alert for LastPass users.
The breach in August was worse than expected.
A lot worse.
I use LastPass.
I've hated it for so long, but I have assigned the task of switching our corporate password
manager over to something else, to multiple people for like almost two years now.
And it hasn't been done actually over a year.
I think I'm going to take the mantle.
Are you?
That would be great.
Thanks.
Yeah.
Can we go with, is KeyPass the one that has the local nonsense?
I don't know.
Well, I want that.
I haven't done research in like basically at all.
I just, I've been like frustrated that we haven't switched for quite a while.
And then this article came out and I was like, we're moving, it's like, I'm going to find
a way.
I'm going to get it done.
We're moving.
We have to move.
But anyways, yeah.
Previously mentioned breach in August, LastPass mentioned encrypted data was downloaded, but
still secure.
However, this recent update states that the breach was worse than expected as actors can
brute force, decrypt the copied backup vaults that were removed out of their LastPass secured
cloud containers.
LastPass is advertising users to, I'm sorry, advising users to reset and update all passwords,
especially the master password.
This is not exactly the worst part is that there's information that is stored in plain
text.
Yeah.
So this is usernames and passwords.
Not so much, but as far as I can tell, the main account information, so the name, email
address is accessible to the hackers and the URLs were stored in plain text.
So what that does is it makes the process of going through and trying to brute force
the username and password much easier if you know what service it's for.
So that's one thing.
And number two is the entire web history of a user is pretty valuable even without the
usernames and passwords.
And you would have it.
It's not the entire web history.
Well, it's everywhere you have an account.
Yeah.
Very similar, but not the same.
I'm just saying.
Sure.
I'm just saying, but yeah, it's, it's, I mean, this is horrible.
Yeah.
I'm just going to get out in front of it.
I look at some bad stuff on the internet.
Sure.
Mine leaks, whatever.
We're stuffing there.
Yeah.
And like, one of the things too is like, yeah, people, people can say like these master passwords
are going to be basically impossible to brute force.
It's a non-zero possibility.
And like compute, it's going to make this yep.
And people can find ways to break certain types of encryption and all this other type
of stuff.
So you should update all of your passwords and that's gonna suck, but you should do it
anyways and you should leave last pass.
That would be my suggestion.
Yeah.
Yep.
So we need to update all of our passwords.
Yep.
That's probably our passwords for celebrity feet, pics.com.
Yeah.
Do you got that one?
I don't even know if that's a real site.
It probably is.
I think it has to be, isn't, there's some, there's some website that does that.
I don't know if it's called that.
Yeah.
This particular one.
Isn't it?
Nope.
It's a, it's this at the moment, it seems to be parked.
Yeah.
It's parked.
There's, there's something like that though.
I'm sure there is.
Cause I remember like forever ago you were on there or something on where I think we
like joked about it.
You're on some website that like tracks celebrity fee picks.
I guarantee this is a thing.
I did not think this was going to be something we were going to be looking up on WAN show
today.
But I like.
Men dot wiki feet.
Wiki feet.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Interesting.
Yep.
Is that you?
I mean, this is, yeah, this almost certainly is.
This is.
I'm pretty sure this is, yep.
This is my old bathroom scale.
That's definitely my towel.
Yeah.
Huh?
That's weird.
Oh, you might want to close the page.
I think there was something.
No, no, no, no.
Close it.
Just close the page.
Just close the page.
Okay.
I see.
Yeah.
All right.
Well.
It is what it is.
A UK regulator warns that sharing Netflix passwords may be illegal.
Oh, UK's intellectual property office said on Tuesday that sharing passwords to access
content breaks copyright law.
The comment was seemingly unsolicited as Netflix has never stated that it would take legal
action against British people for sharing passwords, which is jolly good of them I suppose.
And since making the comment, the IPO has removed references to password sharing from
the guidance portion of their website.
But a spokesperson confirmed the agency's stance on the matter saying there are a range
of provisions in criminal and civil law, which may be applicable in the case of password
sharing where the intent is to allow a user to access copyright protected works without
payment.
TLDR sharing a password is illegal in both a criminal and civil sense according to this
particular body.
Sorry.
I'm going to interject for a second.
What now?
People pointed out that you didn't notice that was a problem because you don't see ads.
It's true though.
It just happened.
We weren't kidding.
It's actually a thing.
Oh I find that so funny.
Remember those, remember those ads that would have like a super attractive woman and then
it would be like, by the way, there's a car in the picture or whatever.
Oh yeah.
Sure.
That's super like cringe style of ad.
Yeah.
You just see the car?
Well, no, I just didn't see it.
I wouldn't see it.
Okay.
Did you see the delay?
How long it took for me to find a pair of breasts on a webpage?
Doesn't see the ad.
I can't see it.
It doesn't matter what's on the ad.
If it's an ad, I can't see it.
It's invisible to me.
We try.
I'm so happy that we now have like really good proof because like I know it's a thing,
but when you try to tell people, I think a lot of people are like, oh yeah, sure.
Whatever.
I don't, I am not affected by ads.
No, he doesn't see them.
It's different.
It's actually fundamentally different.
So it was like Linus is ad block.
Yeah.
I can get annoyed by them.
Like the video we were shooting earlier with the worst videos, we were logged into the
Linus tech tips, Google ads, our Google account.
Because that's the only way for us to see the true like dislike ratio, which kind of
helps when we're, when we're watching the content and trying to figure out what was
so bad about it.
Right.
And we don't have premium on that account.
And I was annoyed by waiting to watch the video I want to watch, but I couldn't tell
you a single thing we saw an ad for, not a single one.
I have no idea.
All I really remember was registering because I, we've talked about this before.
I have a premium account.
All I remember was registering that there was like, we had to wait eight seconds for
the current one and there was another one coming and I was like, Oh my goodness, this
is crazy.
But I don't remember what the ads were.
Cause all I'm looking at is that timer from when I can click skip.
Yeah.
That's literally the only thing interesting.
Becomes like a reaction timing game.
As soon as I realized I can't skip it, my attention is somewhere else.
It sure as heck isn't on my computer.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sorry.
That was just, that was really funny.
Anywho, uh, despite no streaming service ever so much as hinting at pursuing legal action
against password sharers, um, CPS, the crown prosecution prosecution service has not ruled
out the possibility of it seeking criminal charges against people that privateer password
from their friends and loved ones.
That's gotta be wild.
Oh, they would need to have the case referred to them.
Hmm.
So one of the streaming services would have to pursue legal action.
Interesting.
I mean, I don't think this is going to happen to put this in perspective.
Torrenting could carry a sentence of up to 10 years.
It was raised from two years in 2017 on the recommendation of the IPO.
However, most prison sentences for piracy have been for those running torrent sites
or live streams.
Uh, here's our discussion question.
Oh boy.
If float were to pursue legal action against someone for sharing a password, what would
you anticipate the fallout to be like?
We have never considered pursuing legal action for that.
We actually have some stuff that kind of tracks it.
Um, I really, I even know, know of a couple accounts that like are almost certainly doing
that.
Uh, we have banned an account for doing it, at least one account for doing it on like
a mass scale.
I know about that when, when we think it's probably a situation like I ran into one where
I actually ended up talking to them about it.
This was like a few years ago when I used to stream.
Um, but they came into my stream and I was like, oh, it's you, you have the same username.
And I just asked them about it and it was like, it was on one IP for like a super long
time.
And then it was on two IPs and it's like, huh?
And they were like, yeah, I mean my brother and I shared an account when we lived together
and then I don't remember the exact details, but it was something along the lines of like,
I went to university or whatever.
We both still use the account and I'm like, cool.
I was half expecting it to be, I was half expecting it to be my parents divorced.
Oh, well, no.
Okay.
The thing that we were seeing was it being used at the same time.
Right.
Okay.
Sure.
Sure.
Sure.
Um, so like, and my parents watched the land show, but yeah, like I don't, I don't care
about that.
I don't, I'm not encouraging people to do this, but like if it's within reason, I don't,
I don't think we've ever really taken a stance on it.
Yeah.
The problem is when you post like your username and log in on some forum and you're like,
how about it?
God, like that's when it becomes an issue if you're sharing it or if you're using your
account to download the material and then redistributing it, then obviously there's
issues there.
But as long as you're not like really abusing it, like we don't really care.
Um, what if flow plane was 300 times the size?
I mean, I'm sure we would see it the same way as we do now to be completely honest.
Um, we would be not happy with people that were mass sharing it.
Um, but in the way that I think a lot of Netflix accounts were shared back in the day, I think
it would kind of be fine.
Um, I don't know.
Yeah.
We should do some merch messages.
Yeah.
Cause those we definitely, um, those definitely help us survive.
Yeah.
All right.
Hit us, Dan.
Okay.
I've got one here from handsome.
Hey, Linus and Luke and behind the scenes people liking the spooky wan show.
Should we go spooky for the rest of merch messages?
Okay.
I'm down.
Let's do it.
I'll do it.
No, no.
I want to ask Linus when the secret shopper part three is coming, waiting for a while.
So I wanted to interject on this one and I actually wanted to answer this one, although
he's probably going to say the same thing.
Uh, the whole point is that we can't tell you because the, and I wanted to make sure
I said that before he potentially says something else.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cause we, the companies can't know it's coming.
Yep.
So has to be out of nowhere.
Yep.
You never expect the Spanish inquisition.
Yeah.
So, sorry, but no, yeah.
There will be another one.
It might be happening now.
It might be happening in a couple of years.
It might've happened already.
Who knows?
We might've filmed it all already.
I can't tell you anything.
I'm sorry.
Yeah.
You mole.
Who do you work for?
Is it I by power?
Is it main gear?
Is it Dell?
Tell me.
That's not Dell.
Dell doesn't care.
All right.
I got another one here from Tom.
Hi guys.
Do you think overclocking is slowly fading away now that CPU's and GPU's are already
pushing the limits?
Yes.
Easy.
Quick.
Got another one here from Jake.
Hi Linus.
You seem to enjoy making some videos a lot more than others like the recent chat GPT
PC build.
Do you ever wish you could do more passion project videos and do you, would you need
a smaller channel slash team to be able to do so?
Merry Christmas all.
Um, I mean, you're already seeing that.
You're already seeing that process playing out, right?
Like that's where the smaller channels like short circuit are coming from.
Short circuit's a way for us to cover products that just wouldn't get enough eyeballs on
them to justify uploading to LTT cause it would just harm the channel and you're going
to see a lot more of it.
Um, I think you can expect to see more niche channels as the lab team builds out their
testing capabilities and we have all this data and we need to publish it somehow, right?
Yeah.
In text is great, but it doesn't make any money.
So obviously we're going to continue to do what we do best, which is create video content.
So yeah, you're going to see that a lot going forward.
Now with all of that said, I think you might be getting a, I may, I think sometimes people
can get the wrong vibe.
Just because I take on, for example, a more serious tone in a video doesn't mean I'm having
less fun in the creation process or that I don't think it's more important or that I
don't think it's as important.
Sometimes I think it's more important, but you also can't have the same amount of fun
in everything you do.
So like if we were to go through the last few videos, yeah, this doing everything the
chat bot says was a blast because I'm super, super into this technology.
And a lot of the time, you know, when we come up with a video concept, the whole reason
that we're doing it is because it's something I want to talk about.
And then we just need kind of a vehicle for that.
So building a computer was just an excuse to talk about chat GPT in a mainline video.
This one I had a blast with.
I mean, Jeff and I have never really gotten a chance to hang out outside of, you know,
a few small encounters at like, you know, work events and stuff like that.
And so I always enjoy Intel Extreme Tech Upgrade and I think that comes through in the videos.
People love Intel Extreme Tech Upgrade.
This one was really stressful.
It was a really fun idea, like doing tech support, but some of the tools we ran into
some challenges or rather the lines got flooded and handling a flooded support line is like
never fun.
So I think that did take a bit of the fun out of it.
There were elements of it that were super fun, like Dr. Ian Cuttriss calling into the
show that bloody guy rolling you with like a crazy question.
Hey, I got it though.
I'm feeling good about that.
It was pretty good.
Sponsored stuff is always challenging, right?
Like I said everything that I wanted to say, but that back and forth, I'm so glad that
I have a sales team that kind of deals with all of that for me now where the brand will
come and say, oh, we don't like the way you worded it and I'll say too bad.
And then our sales team gets to kind of play messenger in between, but this is a super
cool monitor.
I had fun with that.
The fake merch, always a lot of fun for me.
Working with the Hacksmith team, total blast.
Like there's nothing in here, this monitor I was not that interested in and then I actually
used it and all of a sudden I was like, whoa, this is super cool.
I mean, we don't really, we don't really make a lot of videos about stuff that I'm not interested
in because I hand select pretty much every topic, not all, but very many.
Is there anything, okay.
I did not hand select for us to forget about Luke's portion of the part one of the challenge.
This I hand selected, this I hand selected, this I didn't hand select.
This was pitched to me, Tanner pitched this, adding USB-C to old consoles, but when he
pitched it, initially I was like, and then when he explained it, I was like, whoa, that's
so cool.
And so yeah, I'm super into it.
You know what?
I think what you might see in a video like this is that I didn't get to play around with
it firsthand as much.
If I'd gotten to really play with it, I think you might've seen a bit more animation on
my side.
Sometimes it's the end of the day and I'm kind of tired, like I'm doing my best, but
no matter how enthusiastic I am about something, I still do have to present.
My job is not just as simple as being someone who's into this stuff and talking about it.
And I wish it was, cause it'd be a lot easier to hire people to help me with it.
But Luke, Luke knows, I mean, it's not something people can just pick up overnight.
Try it.
Go make a video.
It's really hard.
Try to get views on YouTube.
Yeah.
It is a real job.
And I'm, I'm glad that you almost never see that anymore.
You know, oh, well, if you want to make money, get a real job instead of being a YouTuber.
It is a real job.
It's not easy.
Yeah.
Um, the mood lighting is throwback to when the power went out earlier on the show.
For those of you who are just joining us, what else you got for us, Dan?
Okay.
I got one here from Jose.
Uh, oh, it's in, uh, you know, I got some Mexican.
I'm a awful of this.
Hope you have a great holidays.
I would like to know how the dual audio project is going.
Love your videos, but some friends don't speak English.
So the double would help a lot to show this amazing channel.
Um, still in progress.
I haven't gotten an update from Ed on it in the last little while, but we've been just
kind of trying to push through the product releases and limited people availability due
to weather due to the time of year.
It's been a backburner project compared to LTT videos must be shot because that's ultimately
what pays the bills.
Um, so I wish I had an update for you, but I'm afraid that I don't for the moment.
Okay.
I got another one here from Kevin.
Can you test whether lifting a laptop by its palm rest cause you answered this earlier.
Didn't you?
Yes.
I probably didn't deal with it properly.
A little idea.
Yes.
Anonymous.
Hey guys, I'm waiting to get into it soon.
So with the technical difficulties experience tonight, I was wondering how help desk issues
are solved at LMG.
We did this one too.
Okay.
It's me.
Uh, did you do this one?
Colin, shout out from Korea in VR benchmarks.
There are different experiences based on hardware setups and even minor hardware changes have
significant implications given VR requires a human interaction.
How would you try to objectively make a comparable VR benchmark?
It's really challenging because the level of detail changes constantly and can change
depending on, like you said, a human interaction with the headset or with the, uh, in game
environment.
Uh, we do have, uh, an expert on staff now.
Um, I think he's actually in the chat, uh, Jakey, you in the chat, other more different
Jake, um, who has a lot of experience in machine vision, um, from mobile benchmarking, which
has a lot of the same challenges.
And I think it's something that we're going to be able to solve in the longterm, but it's
going to take some time.
Okay.
I've got another one here from Jay hope Luke's house gets fixed quickly.
Me too.
Do you think we'll ever start seeing multiple GPU's with the same power, but different RAM
variants like a five 80, 24 gig, 32 gig and a five 90, 64 gig and a 32 gig type of thing.
Uh, you already see this in particularly the commercial space.
Like I think it was not very long ago that Nvidia had different versions of their quadros
that had different, uh, size frame buffers.
We used to see it in the consumer space more and you, I think you'll still see it in the
lower end.
Um, but it's not as common in on upper tier cards because I think rather than create like
the, the memory cost is not a huge amount compared to the overall bill of materials
for our card over, you know, 250, $300, which is almost all of them now.
So I don't think it is worthwhile for our company to create these different skews, um,
unless they think there's a very compelling, competitive reason.
I think we've seen reactionary, um, reactionary responses to a lower end competitor with less
VRAM, for example, to keep costs under control.
But very rarely do we see that, not at least since the 900 series, I think very rarely
do no 10 series had a three gig and a six gig version of the 1065 recall correctly.
Very rarely do we see Nvidia go out of their way and AMD for that matter to have different
VRAM versions of their cards lately.
And yeah, my, my, my guess is just that they don't want to support more versions of this
queue.
Why have one that is effectively obsolete before the other one if it doesn't actually
save that much on the bill of materials.
The 3080 had 10 and 12, but those were not quite exactly the same card if I recall correctly.
And again, that different version kind of came along later.
It wasn't just, yeah, we've got an eight gig and a four gig version of this card right
out of the gate.
Like I think the last one I can remember that was like that was the RX 480, I think just
or 470.
One of them, I think just had a four and an eight gig version.
Don't quote me on that though.
Okay, got another one here from anonymous Linus and Luke.
What would it take for me to get an LTT backpack signed by as many people on both teams as
possible?
Go to LTX.
Go to LTX.
Yeah.
That's why I curated that question.
Yeah.
That's your only chance that we literally don't even ship the products from this warehouse.
So how would I sign it?
Yeah.
Like I'm not in that.
I've been in that warehouse once.
Yeah.
It's like actually not a thing, but pretty much the whole team is going to be there.
I'm assuming I think a lot of people are.
I think it's one of those things where you don't have to be there, but you better not
miss it kind of things.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kind of like the Christmas party.
Yeah.
Got one here from Nathan.
Merry Christmas.
LMG crew and families has a standoff tool or set of standoff bits ever been considered
for the screwdriver.
I found myself needing some when replacing a motherboard recently.
Yeah.
It doesn't fit in the built-in bit holder.
So once we have, yeah, once we have a separate bit holding mechanism, we will absolutely
do some socketed bits.
They make sense.
Matter of time.
This one's from David.
Hey guys, I've recently developed an addiction to buying 4k Blu-rays after throwing an LG
OLED and SVF speakers in my bedroom.
Any favorite go-to movies for putting your home theater to the test?
So far mine's been Pacific Rim.
Not the best writing, but man does it.
I thought you might have a good answer for this.
Oh yeah.
Not really.
Um, there's some really cool scenes in that weird horror, uh, horror movie with the, with
the cult.
Um, man, I can't remember what it's a lot of horror movies, but they burn, they burn
a barn at the end.
I don't know.
Anyway.
I'm not sure.
Um, this looks, looks really great in HDR.
Yeah.
1917 is definitely a good one.
Chat's, uh, Chat's getting us some good ones.
I refuse to ever put the Hobbit on any screen in my house.
So that's cool.
Oh no.
Yeah.
Midsummer.
That's the one.
Uh, Blade Runner 2049.
Not a great one.
Just the way it's mastered.
Um, we found out kind of later after it, like it looks really great, but the way it's mastered
doesn't really let, um, better HDR displays stretch their legs from my understanding.
So we've, we've stopped using it.
Um, yeah.
Lullaland is really beautiful.
Yeah.
The hurricane, obviously, you know, since I own so many copies of it, it's a whole thing.
I bought it on DVHS for a video recently.
Wow.
Yeah.
It's worth watching.
DVHS is a hell of a drug.
Okay.
I got another one here.
What happened to the GPU shirt design?
Will it ever come back?
What happened to all of our shirt designs?
Right now we only have blank shirts.
I didn't know that.
Yeah.
So our shirt printer, our local screen printer got evicted from his space.
I heard about that.
And like, I don't know, at risk of talking publicly about, you know, dealings that have
not been acknowledged publicly.
I'm just going to say it.
Um, I don't understand, uh, the response that, um, our screen printer gave us when we basically
said, Hey, we've got lab one sitting empty.
Why don't you lease from us?
And like we're some way over 50% of your business anyway.
So you know, why don't we, why don't, why don't we just, we, we don't want a disruption.
We don't have another source.
We don't want a disruption in your business.
You don't want a disruption in your business, obviously, you know, we're going to help take
care of you because we don't want a disruption in your business.
We know it muddies the waters a little bit, but it would be at just, it would be at a
market rate.
We're not looking to screw you over because we don't want any disruption to your business.
Yeah.
Um, you know, the way that I saw it, it would be more beneficial.
We'd have been happy to sign a short term lease, uh, just to make sure that there's
no interruption to his business.
Um, and basically the response was like, from my point of view, from like a, from like a
business planning standpoint, I understand part of it.
You don't want to have too many eggs in one basket.
You know, you don't want to have that one client that's most of your sales and also
your landlord.
You know, like, like I get it.
But on the other hand, your options are us or not running your business right now.
Yeah.
You could do like a one year lease and figure it out afterwards.
Um, like we want to help you out.
Um, we've, we've never done anything evil to you.
So what makes you think we're going to start now?
Um, so from, from just like, uh, it seemed like a very emotional response rather than
a, um, uh, uh, a carefully considered response.
So I don't know, uh, we were looking for alternatives.
We found one that's actually run by one of the companies that we work with for overseas
production.
And play and again, no offense if you're watching this, but the quality has been dog crap.
So we haven't gone forward with it.
So we need something that matches what we were using before in terms of the quality.
Uh, but we need, we either need to find a new source for that, or we need the person
we've been working with to pull his or her head out of their butt and figure out how
to like actually print some shirts instead of just like sitting and not printing shirts,
which is obviously not good for their business.
Um, the badger hound says, bro, come on.
This is hubris.
That's a perfectly valid reason.
You're just mad.
They said no.
Well, they should be mad.
They said, no, they are currently printing zero shirts, not just for us, for anyone that's
not good.
That's bad.
Um, and like I said, I fully understand their discomfort, which is why we were willing to
offer a short term lease.
Nobody does that.
Uh, maybe in the market you're in, that's the thing, uh, here you do, you don't sign
a one year commercial lease or anything like that.
Less than, what is it?
Less than 0.1% I think commercial vacancy.
Yeah.
But it's one of those things where if we're, if we're working together, we'll, we'll, we're
working together.
Like you got to communicate, you've got to say, look, here are my concerns and we can
do what we can to address it.
But if you're just going to kind of be irrational and just say, no, no, no, I don't like it.
I don't like it.
I don't like it.
Okay.
Whatever.
Then, then I guess you're not printing shirts, which is pretty bad.
Um, oh,
next up.
Okay.
Good luck with that.
Got another one here from Thomas.
Hi Linus.
Any update on the summertime jacket?
Hearing your thoughts on dealing with the hassle of sunscreen had hit home for me.
Would love to know if this is still happening or if it's just an idea.
Oh, still happening.
Yeah.
It should be out for next summer.
Uh, the, it's a great garment.
I absolutely love it.
I took it with me on my Hawaii trip a little while ago and was just, just pleased as punch.
Pleased as punch.
Okay.
Got one here from Seth.
I've been called petty.
What do you mean petty?
What are you talking about?
I'm telling you facts.
You can not like facts.
We tried to help offer a solution and it wasn't taken and now it's really bad.
For everyone involved.
For everyone.
Including the other person.
It's a lose, lose.
Nobody won.
What's petty about that?
It's a uncomfortable or a lose, lose.
Yeah.
And the uncomfortable, it's like, yeah, but you just got to like communicate.
It's like any relationship you can just shut down.
Yeah.
I'm like, okay, well then the relationship's over, right?
Or you work with people.
Those are, those are really your only two options.
Okay.
This one's from Seth.
LTT video idea, right ways of power management inside a home involving tech UPS surge protection
went upgrade power to accommodate all the LTT talks about servers, new gen gaming PCs.
Yeah.
I mean, really that's something that we're not going to be able to cover in the kind
of depth that we want to cover it until the PSU tester is fully up and running.
And maybe we have like a second one cause it's going to be an enormous volume of devices
to push through it.
So in time, in time.
Okay.
I've got another one here from anonymous, Hey Linus, I'm absolutely loving the screwdriver.
I often find myself fidgeting with it instead of my usual fidget toys and was wondering
if you ever thought of making a high quality fidgets as I find a lot of them to be lower
quality.
Yes.
We are already planning a fidget toy using the exact same ratchet from the screwdriver.
It's not going to be cheap cause it's a super expensive part, but I'm not going to apologize
for that because it's going to be the best darn fidget ratchet on the market.
It's all we hear all the time.
Sorry.
Not sorry.
Just buy another screwdriver.
This one's from Jacob.
Gift cards until I can get a backpack.
What is y'all's take on development teams releasing games in alpha stages to sell copies
for cashflow and spending 10 years without leaving alpha or just never finishing the
game?
Sorry.
Um, are you saying Tarkov?
I don't know what you're talking about.
Yeah.
Tarkov still in beta.
Uh, Tarkov, if I don't know if that's clue or sorry, true.
If you Google is Tarkov still in beta, it says it's enclosed beta.
I don't think it's enclosed.
I was able to buy a license for it.
Fine.
Just fine.
I don't think it's enclosed to anyone who doesn't have a credit card and pays the money.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There you go.
Um, Minecraft was another fairly notorious one.
Minecraft was in beta for like an extremely long time.
Um, it's a star citizen.
Yeah.
I mean, it's a, it's a thing and it's, uh, it's kind of frustrating, but I can also understand
the development team woes, especially from actually, no, pretty much only from indie
development studios.
If you're a indie development studio, you've got a few people on staff.
You have a certain, um, amount of time you could run for, is that called the run rate?
I don't know what it's called.
It's called something.
It would be your burn rate.
Burn rate.
There we go.
You have a certain amount of time that you can operate for before you're out of money.
And if the game isn't done by then, you can either offer it to people in its current state
and say that you're going to keep working on it, which I mean is true if you sell enough
copies to keep your company going and suddenly is immediately not true if you don't.
Yeah.
And then the flip side of that is if you don't sell any copies, then maybe it just never
gets made at all.
So if it's your only way, but then it feels like in some cases it might not have been
the only way.
Yeah.
It can be a little bit gross, but I think it's just something we're going to have to
live with.
Um, I did we lose power again?
We had a, we had a flashover flicker.
Yeah.
Oh, you can hear it.
Well, we're almost done.
Um, but yeah, I think, I think sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
And I think sometimes it's abused and look at this.
Now would be a good time to insert ads.
There's a, there's a money button.
Okay.
Hold on.
Let's do the math.
There's 9,900 viewers on YouTube.
Okay.
Uh, hold on.
Okay.
So what is it?
30 seconds for an ad.
So 0.5 minutes times 9,900 equals, uh, okay.
So hold on a second.
What is this?
Okay.
This is 4,950 minutes.
Okay.
Divided by 60 equals, uh, 82 hours, right?
Am I, am I doing this right so far?
Yeah.
Okay.
Uh, divided by 24.
Okay.
So it's 3.4 days, which is about 1% of a year.
Okay.
So now hold on a second.
If we assume an average lifespan of about 75 years, then that would be, let's say, so
1% of a year, 0.1% of 10 years point about, let's say about 0.01% of a, of a human lifetime.
Okay.
How much is that worth?
So if every time I press this button, I killed 0.01% of a human.
Would I keep pressing this button?
Let's get into it.
Let's get into it.
Let's talk moral and ethical dilemmas.
Oh my goodness.
If you could kill 0.01% of a human, every time you pressed a button and you never knew
any of them, except your mom who watches the land show, would you keep pressing the button
Luke?
Oh my goodness.
That's a, that is a dark, but somewhat accurate way to look at that.
Yeah.
As long as I carry the zero.
Yeah.
I think it's a little bit less than that.
As the channels grew, man, I would look at the cumulative hours spent watching the content
and I would do that math.
Like this is in the very early days and I'd go, holy crap, LTT has consumed one lifetime.
Now it's 10 lifetimes.
Now it's a hundred lifetimes.
And I didn't.
X amount of lifetimes, like a week or a day or whatever.
It would make me think about the value of it.
You know are we putting, are we working hard enough to make sure that like, like this cost,
I think I've talked to a lot on the show before about how a central aspect of my personal
morals and ethics is human cost, right?
So when you steal a pack of dental floss, you know, what is the human cost of that?
You know, fairly, fairly negligible.
Whereas when you, when you steal an amount that's like equivalent to a year's work for
someone, you know, I see that as like one 50th of murder if you, if you get what I mean.
Like if they spent that time of their life doing something that was only to get their
house or their car, it might even be worse than that though.
You're, you are, you're effectively, you're effectively stealing, what was that?
You're effectively stealing life from them.
And so I would reflect on this number and go like, am I stealing life or am I enriching
it?
You know, I got to, I don't know, just the kind of stuff that keeps me up at night, you
know?
Anywho.
Moving on.
I have another one for Michael.
What's the best Christmas gift you guys have gotten from each other other than that was
not work related.
We don't give gifts to each other.
The gift of not having to worry about it.
That's the best gift.
It is a pretty good gift.
Yeah.
Hey Luke, guess what?
Merry Christmas.
I got you nothing.
Merry Christmas, man.
Me too.
I, uh, I was trying to think when I, so I curated that when I was trying to think if
there was something that we've ever like done.
But I think it's just always been, Hey bro, I know you're busy.
Yeah.
Have a good one.
Yep.
Which is solid.
Yeah.
That's a good way to go.
Yeah.
It's good.
Yeah.
We, uh, are, are nope.
I'm not going to say that.
Um, I'll say this.
There are more people where I feel some amount of obligation to give Christmas gifts to this
year.
And it's a lot of people and like, I hate it.
I don't, I don't mind it as much as, as you do, but at a certain point I'm like trying
to tally in my head, I'm like, have I completed my shopping for all these different people?
And I'm like, this is a lot of people.
And then trying to keep track of that.
And you don't want to just like run to a mall and buy garbage the week before Christmas.
So you try to think about it like throughout the year and it's like, man, there's a lot
of things to, to like keep track of.
Yeah.
But yeah.
My family's been talking about trying to like reduce and stuff because we like something
that we do is we try to reuse Christmas packing as much as possible.
Yeah.
So like brown paper bags are used very often.
Um, last year's tags that you put on things, we just put them in a box and you just retape
it on like, who cares?
We try to do stuff like that to make it less of a waste.
And, uh, we've all been communicating to each other for a while now to like, don't try,
try to really avoid buying people things that are likely going to end up being garbage.
Yeah.
Right.
Um, but we're, we're probably going to continue down, continue down that path to a certain
degree.
Yeah.
We use a newspaper in my family.
Cool.
Yeah.
That's a good one.
We've run out of newspaper.
It's become a problem.
The only thing newspaper is good for, so it makes sense that it's all getting used to
wrap presents.
Yep.
Uh, we used to use the comics pages specifically.
That's cool.
Yeah.
That's actually nice.
Yeah.
That's actually pretty sweet.
Yeah.
I try and do the princess auto for dad and then like, uh, anyway, this one's from Zachary.
Will you publish an external 3d model of the screwdriver publishing the model is common
in industry and it would facilitate 3d printed LTT driver case I'm designing PS.
Why no P H zero zero Phillips double zero or pH triple zero bits in the Phillips set.
All right.
You got a couple of questions here.
Uh, yes, we have considered publishing an external 3d model of the screwdriver.
We need to make sure that we have the proper authorization from the other parties involved
in the design.
So whatever we might feel about it, we, it was a collaborative product, so we need to
make sure that everybody's on the same page.
Um, yeah, we'd, we'd love to make your life easier, um, for, for 3d printing the driver
case you're designing.
So stay, stay tuned as for why no precision bits.
Um, it's because it's really not the intended use case of the product and we don't want
to encourage people to over torque those kinds of products with a, with a big old honking
screwdriver that's really more for like a computer work, a utility work around the house,
automotive work.
Um, that's why, uh, stay tuned though.
Our plan is to have a product where that type of a bit would be more appropriate.
This one's from AJ.
How did Luke become the CEO of float plane or you offer the job or did you apply slash
ask for it?
I've heard you talk about coding development before.
Did you do that before you started working at LTT?
I find it very thematic, uh, that this came from a person named AJ as AJ was the first
person that we hired for the project and it's still, uh, luckily, luckily to me instrumental
and is still working on the project.
Um, I am not tonight.
I am not.
Yeah.
He's going to be out potentially right now actually, because as far as I know, he can't
download this second one until we're done and he's on east coast time so we actually
should close this up.
Shout out AJ.
Thanks AJ.
Sorry.
Thank you.
Thank you.
It's a, this is not the first time and it will not be the last time that I call AJ out
of nowhere and I'm like, Hey, I need you to save me.
Uh, he's in chat.
Yeah.
Hi.
Sorry.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
Uh, I, so I'm not the CEO of floatplane.
Um, how is I, how did I get the job?
Well, yes, I'm COO and probably CTO too.
Is that official or is that just no effective, but I mean, yeah, he runs it, let's put it
that way.
Yeah.
I, so when vessel went down, vessel was a platform that we used to be on that did early
access video, whatever.
When vessel went down, we started a thing on the forum, which was just a sub part of
the forum called rip vessel.
And I found a way to mess with the forum software that we had to force video to sort of maybe
kind of go through it.
The idea was that people could download it and that sort of worked.
And then we realized by accident that a bunch of browsers, do you remember this?
A bunch of browsers would determine that they could just stream the video as a download.
So it would just like, yeah, it would just like play it.
And we were like, wait, what?
Is it that easy?
Pretty cool.
This should be really easy to do.
And then a spoiler alert, it's really hard.
And then pretty early in, I was like, Whoa, I have no idea what I'm doing.
And AJ actually posted a big, like, I think it was a Google doc that he shared.
I think that's how it was done.
But he posted a big thing on the forum being like, yeah, by the way, here's a plan for
like probably a better, more proper way of doing what you're trying to do.
And it was fairly similar to what Jake, Jake Tyve and I had kind of come up with, but again,
we weren't really prepared and AJ's proposal for it was like way better.
So I was like, Hey, help me.
And then we've just been sort of doing it ever since.
There was never really, I don't think there was ever really like, I didn't apply for it.
I don't think I asked for it.
No, definitely not.
It just, yeah, it's, it just sort of happened.
It was a revenue source that we had absolutely no replacement for, one that we needed.
And there was no other platform that was really doing what Vessel was doing.
So we needed to port people somewhere and we needed it now, which basically meant we
needed to develop it internally.
And I was the only person who had any chance and I barely had a chance and then AJ bailed
me out and then we brought on Yuki not way too long after that.
Both of those peeps are still on the team and still killing it.
And we would be nowhere without them.
And then we brought up other people along the way and now we're here.
I don't know.
It just, it just, it sorta happened.
It was very not formal.
I'll say that much.
Next up.
All right.
This is for Luke.
Hey, you pretty clearly play, have played D and D or other tabletop role-playing games.
Would you talk about that?
Sure.
I'll, I'll try to make it relatively short.
Played a bit of D and D in high school, played a bit of D and D in university, played a bit
of D and D after university.
Never like super seriously, always very socially.
Um,
Oh,
Oh, hot take spicy coming out right at the end of the show.
No, no, it's sad.
Luke.
Oh, um, I rekindled the fire for that with Tyler.
Okay.
Sorry.
Um, so it's a bit of a sore topic for me now because I miss Tyler.
Um, but I eventually, um, while knowing Tyler and I actually got Tyler kind of into it and
he ended up running a campaign of this, um, without me cause I couldn't play on the night
that he wanted to run it and stuff, but we used to talk about this stuff all the time.
Um, but I ended up playing edge of the empire with, uh, my brother and a couple of my, uh,
my other friends and edge of the empire was really fantastic.
I like it a lot because of how the dice work, because unlike with D and D where you have
like your chance and your damage, um, in edge of the empire, you have, if I remember correctly,
it's it's like damaged dice and then, Oh man, it's been a long time since I played.
So I'm going to say this wrong, but it's, it's like opportunity basically.
And your dice have to roll against each other.
So you have, you have pluses and minuses for each type.
So if you, if you, uh, say you were, uh, this is edge of the empire, so it's a lot of like
scoundrels and whatnot.
So say you had like your hand solo type character, you've got a pistol, you're trying to shoot
something that's down a hallway.
Um, and you're, you're not going to do any damage.
Your damaged dice come up with, uh, zero or less than zero, but your, your advantage or
disadvantage or whatever it was called, um, dice came up with a large advantage.
So now you have to come up with something that might be advantageous and you think about
the Star Wars universe and you're like, okay, well the shot missed.
It didn't hit the target that I wanted to hit, but let's have it hit the control panel
that's next to the door.
So now the door closes on the person that's trying to run away from me and you can do
cool like thematic storytelling things through your dice rolls and I really thought that
was very cool.
That added an element that I always felt was missing from D and D. Um, and yeah, I used
to, I used to nerd out about that, um, with Tyler and then he ended up running a campaign
and I, I believe they liked it.
I think, uh, Alex Clark played in that campaign.
I think.
I don't fully remember.
I'm not sure.
Um, but yeah, it was a long time ago, but yeah, yeah, I've always played those games
socially.
I care a lot less for the game than I do for the people that I'm usually playing it with.
And last one today is from Matthew.
Hi Linus and Luke, it's Matt from the Call Challenge video.
What's the deal with the beef between you and dbrand?
Are you longtime friends or is it just something fun you do now?
I hate those guys.
Does my bleep button work?
F*** you dbrand.
Seems to work.
Go f*** yourself dbrand.
I think my favorite ad spot I've ever done was for dbrand.
Do you remember this?
We were at, I had no authorization to do this.
I don't watch ad spots for dbrand because f*** those guys.
Fair enough.
Uh, we were at CES back in the day and it was like only sponsored by dbrand or something.
So every video had a dbrand sponsorship on it and I was trying to make each one of them
different.
And I just ran out of ideas and eventually just said dbrand like 30 times and gave no
other information or context.
And they, they loved it so I was like, sweet.
I think if that was a lot of other brands, they probably wouldn't have been too impressed.
But uh, I had a, I had a hunch they'd roll with it and they did, which was cool.
But yeah, screw those guys.
If dbrand gets their way, I will be telling you guys about the car soon enough.
Um, they, they, why can't I resist their money?
Yes!
This, okay.
Okay.
Okay.
This is why I love those guys.
Oh my God.
Oh my God.
They want me to put the most ass possible skin.
What is it?
On my new car.
Can you say what it is?
It's like, it's like your own face a bunch of times or something?
No, no, no.
It's an actual product.
It's the kind of thing that might be fine in small doses, but over an enormous, enormous
vehicle might be a little much.
Oh my goodness.
That actually might look super cool, but it might look super cool to see on a car one
time and not look super cool to be on your car permanently.
Yeah.
So I'm, ah, yes.
Oh my goodness.
They're so annoying because they'll be like, they'll be like, Hey, no, it'd be funny.
You want to drink a bunch of energy drinks?
Hey, want to do something totally stupid?
And I'm like, no, not really.
And they're like, huh, I'll pay more.
Oh, so good.
So good.
So we'll see how it goes.
It makes in their defense.
It makes stuff work cause it's going to stand out.
It's going to be interesting.
It's going to be punchy.
People are going to be interested in it, but it's all stuff you're not going to want to
do.
Uh, so yeah, you got to pay more, but I mean, yeah, gets it done.
All right.
See you later guys.
Bye The show is brought to you by SeeSonic, ZohoOne
and VessiFootwear.
Oh, I never said.
See you again next week.
Same bad time.
Same bad channel.
I didn't say it.
I didn't say it.