Welcome to the WAN Show everyone.
We've got a great show lined up for you today.
Lots of fantastic topics.
Actually, we have far, far too much to talk about.
I said fart, fart too much.
Rest in peace Stadia.
We hardly knew ye.
That's right.
We'll be discussing the, seems inevitable, wasn't it?
Downfall of Google Stadia.
We'll also be talking about rising 7,000 hot
or not.
Now that Intel has shown their cards
we are much better equipped to talk
about who we think is going to be taking the lead
in this generation of gaming performance.
What else we got today?
We're going to be talking
about the extremely exciting things that I did yesterday.
Whatever that is.
And we're going to be talking about some other stuff.
Really Luke?
USB branding?
Yeah, USB branding.
They're changing it again.
USB to kill off super speed and USB for branding.
What?
What's happening?
What is going on?
If anything, those were your better ones.
What are you doing?
I'm rolling the intro.
What?
Oh, stop it.
The show is brought to you today by Kioxia, 45 Drives, and Secret Lab.
All right.
Why don't we jump right into the headline topic today
which is that the USB implementers forum
is changing the branding again.
I just want to give a shout out to GD Felt
over on the forum, long time member, first time poster.
I actually don't know if you're a long time member
first post on the forum in 2019.
Okay, so why don't we go through some of the
some of what has led up to this moment.
In 2019, not a long time member.
The USB IF implemented the following name changes.
They took USB 3.0, which was pretty self explanatory.
Pretty straight forward, you get it.
It's the first one, it's USB 3.
You had your USB 1 and 1.1, okay, that was the slow one.
Then you had your USB 2, okay, that was the fast one.
Then you had your USB 3, that was the faster one, okay?
Easy.
Good, yeah.
They renamed USB 3.0.
Which was good.
To the USB 3.1 Gen 1.
Which is bad.
Okay.
They renamed USB 3.1, which was, I don't even remember now.
Was that the one that was like 10 gigabit?
I don't remember what the differential is.
I don't remember anymore,
but that got renamed to USB 3.1 Gen 2.
Then later it was actually renamed to 3.2 Gen 2.
And then USB 3.2 got renamed to USB 3.2 Gen 2 by 2.
The group sought to make things easier for consumers
by recommending to vendors that they label products
not by their specification name,
but by super speed USB followed by the max speed.
Which in my opinion, pretty okay.
Not bad.
Yeah.
Okay.
So for example, with that guidance,
USB 3.2 Gen 2 by 2 would become super speed USB
20 gigabit per second.
Okay, so now the USB IF is recommending
that vendors just drop the super speed.
So USB 3.2 Gen 2 by 2 super speed USB 20 gigabit per second
is now USB 20 gigabit per second.
I like it.
That's actually fine.
I didn't actually know the conclusion of this
when we got into it.
You know what's really great about it?
The best thing about it is that
that's what I've been doing for years.
Yeah.
No one says super speed USB.
Instead of trying to do any of this,
like you guys watch me, watch me.
And I don't always do it
because it wasn't a formal naming convention.
It was just something that I did
because it was the only thing
that could possibly make sense of this for me
is I'll be holding up a laptop
or I'll be looking at the back eye of a motherboard
and I'll be like, yeah, it's got four USB 10 gigabit ports
because that's the only thing anyone cared about
was how fast does it go?
I don't care by how many things of what-
Super speed, whatever.
Gen thing it is.
I did like the logo setups that they had for it.
That's a weird curve ball that I'll throw out there.
Okay.
I didn't mind that.
So they have good graphic designers
and bad product naming people.
Well, no, like here, I'm trying to find one.
I found an article from how to geek that might have it.
If I can find it.
No, it showed on Google images.
I hate how Google images works now.
Can I use this?
I still get angry when I right click a Google search result
and go to paste it somewhere.
And it's like 14 miles long.
Okay.
My generation remembers when you used to right click it
and it didn't have any of that tracking crap.
It was just the actual link.
I need an extension or something that fixes that.
I need that.
Hold on, boom.
There, the port and cable logo.
I liked that.
Is that going to change?
This isn't even the one that I thought it was.
Which one?
Darn it.
Which one do you like?
I brought us to the wrong thing.
Okay.
Wide cam.
Where it shows the SS.
I got you.
Where it shows the SS thing and then it shows the cable
and it has the speed under it.
I thought it was good.
Okay.
It's very straightforward.
I'm like, okay, that's a USB plug.
This is speed that it's at, I'm done.
We're good.
All right.
So I hope they keep the logo simple.
Now, where things are going to get a little bit complicated
here is that USB has gotten a lot more, well, complicated.
So we're dropping super speed,
but what we don't know yet is how things like USB 4
play into all of this.
Now that we're dropping the USB 4 branding,
because USB 4 is not really just a new generation of USB.
It also has the ability to carry a PCI express signal,
which is super different.
That's how you can connect things
like external graphics cards over a USB type C cable.
So we're going to have to get a little bit further
into this.
Someone said that the logos have come out
and they're similar and they're good.
Okay.
Another thing that we're not really addressing here is USB
gets used for more than just connecting your digital camera
to your computer these days.
We charge our devices sometimes at extremely,
extremely high power, like charging rates
with these USB cables.
And so it's a lot more than just what data rates
a cable can handle.
It's also what gauge the wires inside it are
that determines how much power that cable can actually carry.
So let's go on here.
USB 4 version 1.0.
So that's what we would know as USB 4 right now.
USB version 2.
So I guess that would be USB 2.
USB 3.2, SuperSpeed Plus, Enhanced SuperSpeed
and SuperSpeed with a plus sign instead of a word plus
are defined in the USB specifications.
However, these terms are not intended to be used
in product names, messaging, packaging,
or any other consumer facing content.
This is from Source 2.
This is from Ars Technica.
This was updated in September.
They still recommend that vendors label USB 2
as high speed USB with no performance indicator.
Okay.
Most products using USB 2 spec are peripherals
like keyboards and printers.
So they don't think consumers will mistake the tech
for being faster than say USB 5 gigabit per second.
Okay.
The USB IF also feared people confusing
USB 480 megabit per second as being faster
than USB 5 gigabit per second due to the larger number.
That's fair enough.
So why don't we just call it USB 2
because that's what we've been calling it
since like 2003 or whatever.
That would be fine.
But okay, fine, sure.
For USB-C cables, they now recommend packaging
and logos that show both maximum data transfer rate
and power delivery.
That's excellent.
That's actually really good.
I'm down with that.
But the USB IF's guidelines do not specify
other capabilities like Intel Thunderbolt support
whether a cable is active or passive
or if it allows PCIe tunneling, which is in my opinion
the most differentiating thing about USB 4.
According to USB IF president and COO,
consumer study groups showed that most consumers
only care about the highest data performance level
a product can achieve or the highest power level.
But that is stupid.
No offense because PCI express tunneling
is something that the average consumer wouldn't understand
to tell you that they care about.
That's your entire job is creating branding and messaging
that helps people understand the value of it.
And just because you've been doing this speed-based marketing
and branding for so long and people understand it well
and tell you that they want to know about it
doesn't mean that there aren't other important aspects
of the specification that must be communicated.
Yeah.
Dumb.
Yep.
And the USB IF never talked to us again.
Man.
Have they talked to you at all?
I don't know.
Yeah.
But like, Yvonne would tell me to be a lot nicer.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say it's dumb
and I didn't mean to say that you were an idiot
and that you're bad at your job or,
I don't know, did I say that?
No, I don't think you said any of that before.
The point is that I disagree respectfully
and I'm sure that you're really good at the other things
that you do as president and COO of USB IF.
And I'd love to work together sometime.
To make better branding or?
I don't know.
Maybe they could show us cool USB stuff.
Would you say that this is a move in the right direction?
Oh, absolutely.
There we go.
We can at least give them a win.
It's a step in the right direction.
Well, I've already talked about that before.
No, I know, but you're doing conclusionary statements,
you know?
And there is a lot of good here, I would say.
I don't think it's completely there,
but this is a lot better than it was.
And this is gonna be a lot more straightforward
for consumers, which is good.
Cause that's kind of the point.
Yeah.
I mean, I had already talked about this.
We've been working on cables in the background
for a little while and I had already said,
yeah, we're just gonna completely ignore
whatever the USB IF says.
We're just gonna put the maximum data rate
that it can handle and the maximum power it can handle.
So essentially they've just-
They're doing that.
Done that. Which is good.
Which is great.
That's really good.
Yeah, that's a step in the right direction.
Good job.
Yeah, I think that's about it.
We're also gonna put,
whether it supports PCIe tunneling though.
Because that's-
Of course.
Really important.
Yeah.
Cause we're trying to make USB cables less confusing.
That's the point, right?
But you did good.
You did pretty good.
Pretty good.
All right.
What do you wanna talk about next?
Should we talk stadia?
Sure.
Or do you wanna talk about your shoes?
Because I think the people are waiting
for an update on your shoes.
I feel like that's more of a-
You can't find shoes.
No, I did.
Okay, well, normally can't find shoes.
Yeah.
He's had the same shoes for so many years.
I thought he was just cheap.
It turns out he's cheap and he has a hard time
finding those same shoes that he really likes.
And Luke finally found shoes that make him happy.
We're talking about-
We're talking about the shoes.
I wanna hear about your shoes.
We can open them cause I haven't seen them yet.
Luke, he's doing a shoe unboxing ladies and gentlemen.
Hey Dan, do you mind jumping on that camera?
While you guys are getting set up for this,
if you wanna send a message into the show,
the right way to do it is merch messages.
I think we probably have some new stuff from the store.
Yes, short circuit sweatpants are now available.
Mystery lanyards are now available.
If you don't care what color lanyard you get,
you can save 50%, just 4.99 for an LTT lanyard.
We also have less than 10,000
of the black shaft screwdrivers left for back order.
Once they're gone, they're gone.
We have no plan to offer them in the future.
So there's the update on LTT store.
Actually, I guess I'll show you the short circuits.
I guess I'll show you the short circuit
sweatpants real quick here.
So these are some suggestions
for things you guys can check out.
Oh, I'm excited for these.
So it matches the short circuit hoodie.
It's pretty subtle, honestly.
It just has like zipper accents.
Yeah, they go perfectly with the short circuit hoodie.
Yeah.
They're available in a bunch of different sizes,
bunch of different lengths.
I got nice, cool like lining that matches,
good stuff like that.
So guys, you can check those out, LTT store.
We just find this as a better way of handling things
than doing it with super chats or Twitch things
or whatever else, because this way,
if we don't get to your message,
then you still get your order in the mail,
which is pretty sick.
All right, I'm switching to the Luke cam.
Luke, this is it.
Oh, no, that wasn't it.
I know how to do this.
Hey, okay.
My shoes are in a bag.
And so how do you know these are good?
I don't.
Exactly.
Wait, what?
Yeah.
You told me before the show that these were good.
They should be, theoretically.
I haven't opened them, so I don't know.
I thought they're the same ones.
Right now, they are Schrodinger's shoes, not my shoes.
So they could be dead?
Sure.
They could be alive.
I mean, a dead shoe, would that be like holes in the bottom?
So the shoes could be alive.
Yeah.
And by observing them, they could become dead.
Yeah.
Okay, well, now I really want to know what's in there.
Hopefully shoes.
So yeah, the idea is I bought this one pair of shoes.
They worked great for me.
And I never wanted to get rid of them
because I'd go try on other shoes
and I would dislike them all the time.
I hate padding around the heel.
I don't roll my ankles.
I've like never rolled an ankle.
I don't need ankle support.
I find it very annoying, actually.
I really hate it.
So I love not having that.
Luke has fat ankles, he has padding.
I have.
It might be true.
His ankles have rolls so he can never roll them.
That would be so interesting.
I don't know how that would even work.
I have very tall feet, I have very wide feet.
A lot of like running and fitness shoes
don't fit me very well because of that.
Yeah.
These ones do.
Like there's a lot of reasons why I like these shoes.
But through years and years and years of just trashing them,
like I used to box in them.
They've traveled with me everywhere.
They've climbed ridiculous things.
They've done tons of stuff.
I threw them in the wash once
and then transferred them to the dryer
and the toe got stuck in part of the dryer
and it like heat molded it into a curve.
And I just had to like wear that out over years.
Like they are old and rough
and they are at the end of their life.
And the admin in Twitch chat says this camera's very sharp.
So I'll take that as a compliment
for Dan's focus control over there.
Yeah, good job.
Good job, Dan.
It's actually a C200.
Our WAN Show cameras are so overkill.
So these are theoretically the same shoes.
The same shoes.
In theoretically very good condition,
in actually my size, which is the hard part.
I don't have like absolutely ridiculously gigantic feet,
but I have size 12s,
which can be a little annoying to find sometimes.
So this is hopefully my new shoes.
They look like they're in pretty good condition.
Wow.
Okay, are those the same?
Yeah.
Okay, and these are like, are these, are these old
or are these like a remanufactured?
Theoretically just old, actually legit shoes.
I mean, I gotta say they look like,
I mean, I guess like shoe enthusiasts
are a big thing these days.
Not for these?
So keeping shoes in good condition, I guess is a thing.
They're a little worn.
Even the like insole is in pretty good condition.
Yeah, like the toe, the toe's a little worn.
I don't think these have been able to be sold
at a store for like seven years.
So keep that in mind.
So they've been, they've been used,
but they've clearly been not, you know, do they smell?
No, not bad.
No.
They don't smell like new shoes.
No.
But they don't smell like disgusting,
ancient, gross, disgusting shoes.
All right, so congratulations, Luke.
I feel good for you.
Thanks, Dan.
Well, not really new shoes, but yeah.
Yeah, so that's cool.
That's the whole shoe story.
Hope that was interesting.
I was planning to leave that till like way later
in the show, if we talked about it at all,
not like the second topic.
No, I was excited to talk about it.
What's more interesting if we want to stay off topic
is what I did last night,
but I feel like we should talk about stadia.
Yeah, let's talk about stadia.
Okay, you keep bringing this up.
I didn't do stadia last night
because no one did stadia last night because it sucks.
Got them.
Well, okay.
Now hold on a second, actually.
You know why it sucks?
Let's talk about that.
Not necessarily because the service sucks,
but because Google sucks.
Stadia sucks because Google sucks.
Stadia sucks because no one believed in it
because everyone thought it would be canceled
because of course it was going to be canceled
because it's Google.
So no one wants to like invest in this ecosystem
that they know is going to be trashed.
Yes, trashed, he said.
Trashed, thrown in the garbage.
Yeah, because the service itself,
as far as my understanding goes,
was actually like really good.
Yes.
Actually quite impressive.
Image quality from the last,
so Gary from the lab looked at image quality
for stadia versus, is it GeForce now?
I can never remember what it's called anymore,
but Nvidia's service.
Yeah.
And the stadia image quality was better.
I've seen quite a, well.
It's technologically like quite good
as far as my understanding goes.
Considering how many people were using stadia,
I've seen quite a few tweets from people saying
I actually loved stadia.
The people that I know that actually used it
thought it was pretty good.
Yep.
But it's officially dead and with very little notice.
No surprise.
It's going offline January 18th.
No surprise on that either.
2023, one of the worst parts is have you seen,
have you seen the email they sent out internally?
No, I haven't actually.
Oh my goodness. I've heard about it,
but I haven't seen it.
The email is brutal.
Hold on, let me see if I can find this stadia.
I think I have it in my, in my, in my thing here.
Oh balls.
No, I don't see it, but it's, it's bad.
Basically they just sent out an email that was like,
yeah, we have an all hands meeting tomorrow
and you should probably prioritize being there.
Thanks.
You know, about the future of development
and by the way, we're shutting it down.
See you later.
Now, not see you later.
I think these people are being assigned to other things,
but like how demoralizing is this?
Nevermind for, oh man,
we got to talk about the impact on partners,
but how demoralizing is this for a, for a programmer,
for an engineer, for anyone to, to put, I mean,
they, they didn't, they,
they started this like almost three years ago, 2019, 2019.
Okay. I've got the, I've got the email.
You've got it. Okay.
It's got a name on it. It's got a name on it.
Oh.
I mean, they shared it.
So I guess it's probably.
Oh yeah, sure. Go ahead and read it. Read it.
Confidential, internal only, please do not forward.
I mean, you saw how well that went.
Whoever shared this, your Google email is in it.
So you probably should have not done that,
but it says, hi everyone.
We'll be having a Stadia team meeting today.
Not tomorrow.
Oh, sorry. I got that detail wrong.
This was sent out at 7.08 AM.
We'll be having a Stadia team meeting today,
September 29th at 8.30 AM.
So, okay.
So we will have less than an hour and a half to,
to get ready to share some important updates with everyone.
Apologies for the short notice.
Yeah.
We would appreciate it if you could,
can please prioritize attending this meeting or check in
with your manager afterwards, if you can't make it.
Details have been added to your calendars.
This will be a virtual only meeting.
So please feel free to join
from wherever you're working today. Best, Phil.
That's it.
That's it.
So they didn't say they're closing the company or whatever,
but I guess they probably did an hour and 22 minutes later.
Whew.
That is absolutely brutal.
And as far as I can tell,
literally everyone got absolutely blindsided by this.
We talked-
Developers heard about it from the news.
I know a lot of developers that heard about this
through the news.
They were actively working on actively developing things
for Stadia and it just got canceled.
Looking at how Google is planning to support the users,
I'm hoping they do a similar thing for the devs
and make sure that they don't get just wrecked.
Because it looks like they're doing full refunds
for like basically everything.
I don't know if that's in the notes here,
but they're doing refunds on hardware.
They're doing refunds on purchases.
As far as I know,
the only thing they're not doing a full refund on
is the subscription.
But like things you bought through the Play Store,
whatever, they're giving you full refunds for it.
Do you think some people knew?
I still have my tab open
from the Logitech cloud gaming device from last week.
And I remember it being sort of notable to me
that the only cloud services they mentioned
were Xbox Game Pass and GeForce Now.
And Stadia would have seemed like an obvious one to support.
I mean, unless you were smart
and realized that Google would probably just cancel it
at some point.
Oh, wow.
Apparently someone in FlowPlane chat said
they started rolling out a new UI update
literally just hours before the announcement.
Like these people were actively moving on this stuff.
That is so unfair.
Internal and external team.
Because there's no way that a project like that
was just canceled.
It wasn't a snap decision.
Like it's absolutely something where I get it.
If you don't ultimately end up canceling it,
you don't want people to just be sitting unsure
whether they're gonna have a project to work on tomorrow.
But is this really more humane?
If Google rolled out something,
on the scale of something like Gmail,
I don't know what it would be.
I can't give you an exact tool.
But on the scale of something like Gmail,
where it's very fundamental, very important,
would you even try it?
Would you migrate?
Okay, maybe you try it.
Would you seriously try it to the point
where you like migrate to it
if you weren't doing it for a review reason?
Because at this point,
how do you trust them for anything?
Any service that they spin up, they just kill.
I'm trying to think if I had to do something
I think if I use any Google service
that was started up in the last 10 years.
That's what I'm getting at.
I use Android.
I use Gmail.
I hardly touch any part of G Suite
that isn't Gmail, Google Docs, Google Sheets.
Drive.
Like I do not use things like Keep or Reminders.
Reminders they just like messed with again.
Like I do not use,
like I use my Google Calendar,
but I use a third-party app
because I don't wanna use their stuff.
Not like a data privacy thing,
but just like, I don't like things changing.
I use this app called Business Calendar.
It's really good.
I was gonna ask you
because I actually didn't know you did that.
Oh yeah, Business Calendar's sick,
especially on the Fold, man.
Like check this out.
Boom.
Oh wow, it's actually very readable.
Yeah, and so you can, it just like pops stuff out like this.
Like my calendar app is like sick.
It's a paid app.
Like I paid like five or 10 bucks for it or whatever,
but it's so worth it.
Like this is my calendar.
It's like dense.
Information density is what I care about.
And the Google Calendar is,
there's no way they have enough resolution.
I'm not worried.
Also, there's nothing like particularly scary there.
The Google Calendar is just,
it's super, super sparse.
So I'm trying to think.
Like I use, okay, I use Android TV, but that's Android.
I don't need, I don't even know.
Like I don't touch, I don't touch meat.
I don't touch.
I use meat.
I use meat a lot actually,
but meat is very replaceable for me, to be fair.
That's the only reason why I use it.
And I actually, another calendar thing that I like,
a feature that I actually don't understand at all
why Google Calendar doesn't have, but is external.
Cause I believe there's some internal tools for doing this,
but external people being able to book meetings
on your calendar.
Maybe someone's going to school me
and there's some way to do this, but I don't think so.
No, you can't do it anymore.
Yeah, okay.
So I use Calendly.
Yeah, you used to be able to send calendar invites
by email and it would just like go right onto your calendar
or something like that.
Like there was a way better way to do it.
I forget the exact details.
It's one of those things like, yeah,
remember when like we were talking about before,
right clicking copy link in a Google search
was just the URL.
Yeah, there was a simpler way to book meetings.
Like the integration between Google Calendar
and Gmail was better.
Maybe you guys can remind me, but.
But either way I use that Calendly thing
and I just find it very easy to set up like Google meetings
and stuff through all of that.
So I just use Google Meet.
Night Pause asks, is that not a thing in Outlook?
Yeah, but like who uses Outlook?
Dan's face, Dan's face.
What year is it?
Yikes.
What year is it?
Yikes.
Someone just dropped Outlook on us.
I mean, okay.
If we're gonna criticize Google for killing things.
Outlook has staying power, okay.
At least Outlook is still there.
It's still around.
Yeah.
What about Lotus Notes?
You guys use Lotus Notes?
Oh man.
Word perfect anyone?
Almost everyone uses Outlook?
Whoa, that's not true, dude.
Not even a little.
That is not true.
Not even a little bit.
All universities use Outlook.
Yeah, like government ran institutions.
Microsoft has a lot of fingers in those.
But outside of that, I don't know.
I don't know about that.
Oh man, that's great.
Yeah, yes.
A lot of businesses do use it.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Just chill you guys, chill.
I cannot-
A lot of people saying Outlook is better than Gmail.
To be fair, I have not used Outlook in a long time.
Last time I used it, it was embarrassingly bad.
Okay.
But it's been a long time.
I will say.
All right, okay.
All right.
Should we do a poll?
I'm gonna do a poll.
You can keep going.
So Dan, can you think of any Gmail service
that was started in the last 10 years that you use?
You know, Duo, any like, what do they even do?
Guys, I wanna hear from you guys too.
Hit me up FlowPlane chat.
Yeah, I can't think of anything like Docs and Sheets mostly.
That's it.
I mean, I guess most of the Google services that we use,
we might not realize we're using
new ad serving technologies and whatnot.
Wow, this poll is very surprising so far.
I asked, is Outlook better than Gmail?
Yeah, I got you.
And maybe I influenced this poll
by making it so the no answer
is saying that Gmail is better,
but a lot of people are saying that,
like the majority of people are saying
that Outlook is better than Gmail.
Yeah, right here, FlowPlane poll.
Wow.
Wow.
Okay, people are talking about like Google Cloud.
Outlook on desktop, good.
Outlook on phone, bad, someone said.
What the devil is Google Fi?
Oh, that's their like phone thing.
Okay, yeah, it's not available here.
It's not even in Canada.
They didn't even, nevermind canceling it.
They didn't even manage to completely roll it out.
Yeah, RIP Google Play Music, 100%.
It was so much better than YouTube Music
and I promise you, they know it.
Is Google Fiber still a thing?
I don't think so.
I thought they canned that.
Google Chat.
Google Chat, Google Chat is just Hangouts.
Like it, Google Glass?
I know, I asked what you still use from the last 10 years.
No, yeah, yet another thing they abandoned.
Way to not prove the point.
Oh, man.
Yeah, RIP Inbox, yeah, exactly.
Yep, yeah, GPay.
No, I don't use that.
Google Pay, that's just part of your phone.
You probably, if you use Tap, I think you use that.
No, Samsung has their own.
Oh.
Have Samsung phone.
And I don't, I didn't even set it up
because like I set it up once
and then there were like two different ones on my phone
for some reason, maybe one of them was the Google one
and one of them was the Samsung one.
And I like got confused.
I was stuck without a credit card at a gas station
for some reason, long story.
I didn't, I lost my wallet
and I had just dropped Yvonne off on a ferry.
So I like had no way to pay for fuel.
And so I had Yvonne give me her credit card information
so that I could enter it into my thing.
And then it went into like the wrong one.
And then every time I like swipe up the thing,
it's like the other one.
And I'm just like, you know,
it really doesn't take that long
to take my wallet out of my pocket, so I don't care.
It just makes no difference to me whatsoever
if I pull my phone out of my left pocket
or my wallet out of my right pocket to tap to pay.
I just, I can't.
Someone said Waze.
What, yeah, but they just bought that.
Bought it, and when did they even buy it?
Yeah, yeah, all right.
Google buys Waze.
Yeah, I do use YouTube music.
2013, that's like right on the line, okay?
Yeah. Come on.
Man, this is an interesting conversation
because you kind of go, yeah, Google,
they're like a multi-billion dollar company.
They can make good things.
And again, Stadia was good.
Well, you use a Pixel.
Yeah, begrudgingly.
Well, but you do.
Technically, I probably won't next time.
And the Pixel program is within the last 10 years.
Like, yeah, but you use it.
Yeah, but look at the quality level of Pixels.
I mean, I don't, I can't speak to that.
I have never, I've never daily driven a Pixel
other than just to review it.
I just, they've never pulled me in.
Google Fiber is back apparently, says Floatplane Chat.
Killed by google.com.
What is this?
I've seen this before.
I've seen this before.
I can remember this.
There's a handful of people
in the Floatplane Chat posting this.
Yeah, here we go.
274 different things.
Yeah.
It's the end of the functionality of Google Assistant
by allowing-
August, 2023, June, 2023, March, 2023, January, 2023.
All stated for death.
YouTube Originals, December, 2022.
Google Hangouts.
Oh my goodness.
What even is Google My Business app?
Android Auto for phone screens.
Yeah, that was kind of annoying that that went away.
Okay, all right.
What is cameos on Google's?
Wait, they had a cameo clone?
Shut up.
I had no idea.
What?
Killed eight months ago.
Cameos on Google allowed celebrities
and other public figures to record video responses
to the most common questions asked about them,
which will be shown to users in Google search results.
FitStar Yoga.
This went on for seven years.
It created unique yoga sessions.
What?
Poly to distribute 3D objects?
What am I even looking at here?
Google Cardboard.
Yeah, cause that was gonna work.
I can't believe that lasted for six years.
Tilt Brush.
Oh, I didn't even know Tilt Brush was dead.
That sucks.
Tilt Brush was cool.
It was actually really cool.
A couple times and then I kind of got over it.
That's probably why it got canceled.
Yeah.
But I know that there was like artists
that a hundred percent focused on Tilt Brush.
Yeah.
Like that was their thing.
And they made really cool stuff.
Cloud Print is one of those things that I always thought
like theoretically sounded kind of cool,
but I never used once.
Apparently it was 10 years old in 2020
when it died.
Higher by Google.
I actually wanted to use this recently
because I was drowning.
And yeah, it was dead.
So I was like, oh, that sucks.
Cause I remember us like talking about it
on WAN forever ago.
So I was like, oh, I'll go find that thing.
Maybe it'll be helpful.
And then, yeah, I couldn't.
To Google's credit, most things are being refunded,
which is the most good guy possible way
for them to do this.
So back to the Stadia topic.
Yeah, back to Stadia.
It sounds like they're doing it nicely.
Yeah.
You don't even have to return the hardware.
You just like keep it.
I would like to see them do something.
With the hardware?
With the hardware.
I'd like to see the controllers like still work,
you know, get some basic drivers.
I actually have never,
I've never tried to use a Stadia controller
because why would I?
For anything, for anything.
But I would like for them to still work for something.
That would be great.
Apparently it does.
Apparently it does.
Okay.
The Stadia controller works fine
as a standard game controller on both windows and Macs.
Apparently there are some limitations,
but you can use the device as a wired controller.
It doesn't work wirelessly
with a standard Bluetooth controller,
but you can use it wired.
So.
Okay.
I enjoy the idea of not having e-waste.
I think that's good.
Yep, that's good.
This move of refunding everything,
this I added,
tells us one of two things.
Either it was costing them a king's ransom
to maintain Stadia day to day.
Wouldn't be too surprised considering it was really good.
To the point where it's cheaper to just say,
forget it, refund it all,
make it go away,
than to just leave it running indefinitely.
Or it tells us that the amount they sold
was actually pretty negligible.
Which I think it might be because.
I think it's a little of column A,
a little of column B.
Yeah, that makes sense.
I, because it's one of those things where again,
I wouldn't trust,
I don't know if you want to use the term investment
for this,
but I wouldn't trust investing in a platform like this.
I'd be sketched out because it's Google, right?
Yeah.
And I feel really bad for all the developers.
I hope, like I said earlier,
I really, really hope that the developers,
internal and external,
are being taken care of at the same level
that it sounds like the customers are being taken care of.
Cause it sounds like the customers
are getting a pretty good deal.
I doubt it.
I doubt it as well.
Yeah, there's just like no way.
I'm just saying, I hope.
Yeah, there's just no way.
I do know that they paid a lot
for getting some of the games onto Stadia.
Like tens of millions.
Like getting, I think they had like Red Dead 2.
Like let's see how much Red Dead 2 was, one sec.
Stadia pay for Red Dead 2.
All of this comes after CEO Sundar Pichai,
Pichai, Pichai I think,
said he wants to make the company 20% more efficient
and cut costs.
This is my problem.
I don't listen to or watch anything.
I only read.
So whenever I say people's names, like on WAN Show,
it's like, yeah, I've actually never heard your name spoken.
So, sorry.
I have that issue with certain words and stuff too.
Yeah, I don't know the exact amount,
but there's an article here from Gaming Bolt
that says Google spent tens of millions of dollars
for Red Dead Redemption 2.
I thought they spent tens of millions of dollars
for games in general.
I didn't realize it was just Red Dead 2.
That's wild.
And then they also paid huge sums
for other games to get on the platform as well.
Okay.
Wow.
And here's an interesting one.
Any exclusives that were planned for Stadia
are now forever lost unless they get bought
and or ported to something else.
And based on what we know about the game development cycle,
there could have easily been games
that are three to four years into development right now
and could be like quite complete
and might never see the light of day.
I don't know if,
I actually don't know of any Stadia exclusives,
but you wouldn't always know about something like that.
Maybe this is the kind of thing
that is gonna kind of pop up over the next six to 18 months
as people move on from these positions
and they don't fear being sued into oblivion
or losing their jobs or whatever the case may be.
Oh, wow.
I don't like a hundred percent know if there's like,
this is proof behind this or anything,
but it sounds pretty legit.
There's a developer who posted
in the r slash game dev subreddit.
They apparently they spent four to five months
building a port for Stadia
and they finished the port like yesterday.
So to read it specifically, it says,
we've been working on our Google Stadia game port
for a few months.
The first time we had about 20 plus issues to solve,
two weeks later, Stadia showed us 10 more.
So it sounds like they were trying to help them,
which is actually good.
We spent four to five months fixing everything,
learning the technology behind it
and preparing our game port.
On September 29th, we had repaired 100% of our faults
and we're ready to launch Stadia.
Today, I was hustling and staying up late in the office
to send the last build.
Our builds could be the last dispatch build
in Stadia's history.
That's wild.
We wish to arrive at this platform.
It's really sad for Stadia employees, et cetera, et cetera.
Google is offering to continue supporting gaming
in other areas and will help devs build
and distribute gaming apps on Google Play
and Google Play games.
Thanks, Google.
How long will Google Play and Google Play games exist?
How long will that help exist?
I don't know.
Man, you guys gotta shake this reputation
of just like throwing things at the wall
and then even the ones that stick,
just letting them fall off the wall,
eventually rot on the wall,
rot on your, you got like a rotten spaghetti wall now.
Like I just don't understand what is going on over there.
It's brutal.
Consumer trust, I hope is low at this point, to be honest.
Cause like, wow, brutal.
Hope people can migrate game data.
I didn't even think about that.
Yeah, that sucks.
That's why.
This is one of the reasons
why I wouldn't want to adopt a platform like that.
You know that Fantasian game that I'm waiting to play
because it's exclusive to Apple Arcade.
That's why I'm not playing it.
It's not that I'm not willing to just pay for Apple Arcade
for a month or two while I play this game or like whatever.
It's not like I don't have plenty of iOS devices.
Fine, whatever, I'll play a game.
But I don't want my save data there.
I want my save data on something
that I think might actually exist at some point,
like on a physical device that I own.
And this is a huge, huge knock for cloud gaming
because I don't think that everyone would go back
to a game that they played, you know, five years ago
or something like that and want their save data.
I have some games, sorry to cut you off.
I have some games where if there's like a note-taking system
or something in the game and I'm pretty sure
this is the last time I'm gonna log off for a while,
I'll like leave my character looking at it
and like write myself a note of like,
this is what you were doing.
Yeah, for sure.
Like if I ever wanted to go back
and play Dragon Age Origins with my character, I could.
It's a save file on my server, like I have it, right?
And that's something that's not an option here.
We've apparently been offered a Stadia dev kit
from a developer who was gonna launch a title
on Stadia Pro next month.
I guess that, do you guys wanna see it?
Do you guys wanna see a Stadia dev kit?
That'd be interesting.
Yeah, I'd be pretty interested to see it.
Like what would a Stadia dev kit be?
Because it's like-
Just a Raspberry Pi.
Yeah, is it a little tiny, little table mini server?
How many days is that?
Apparently someone has a Red Dead Redemption 2 game
on Stadia with 6,000 hours on it.
Wow.
Okay.
I mean, is some of that just leaving it idling?
Are you the reason they had to shut it down?
It's like, we've been transmitting this same frame
for four months.
250 days.
For a lot more than four months.
We've been transmitting this same frame for nine months.
Oh no.
I know there's some people that are like really,
really hardcore into the like online gang system
in Red Dead.
Terrible.
Apparently there's an article about it.
Wow, that's so brutal.
Okay, you guys can stop posting about the 6,000 hours thing.
Come on, don't spam so much.
Okay, let's move on.
I feel like we should probably get some sponsors done here
and then we'll talk about the recall on the backpack.
Oh.
Trust me, Brett, we'll take care of it.
All right.
All right.
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All right.
So,
we have encountered an issue.
Dan, you're on the camera again,
if you don't mind terribly.
We have encountered a user reported issue
with the carabiner zipper pulls on the LTT store backpack.
Actually, I'll start by giving you a sample of one
that is not broken.
Well, here, actually, I'll hold it up
and I'll show you the first two.
Then I'll get your impressions
for some of the ideas that we have.
This didn't come up during testing.
Oh, right, I guess I'm supposed to...
Not that one.
Gosh, darn it.
There we go.
Okay.
So I'm gonna come a little closer to you, Dan.
This didn't come up during testing,
but what we found is that these custom carabiner,
these custom carabiner zipper pulls
that are attached to the zippers
with these little loops here, there you go.
And they have like a little carabiner doodad on them.
You guys can see that pretty well there.
Yep, that's cool.
They were custom designed for our backpack
and they only have a very, very skinny
little bit of metal here.
Yeah, it's really hard to see.
Do you think so?
Looking at that, I think so.
The background is too dark against the...
Well, I got my hand here.
Yeah.
Oh, here.
Well, hold on.
Idea.
Back to the laptop, maybe?
Oh yeah, sure.
Let's go back to the laptop.
Yeah, that works.
Okay, yeah, there we go.
No, no, you can leave your laptop there.
I got the...
Yeah, there.
It's pretty...
Yeah, there we go.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, so it's got a little wibble wobble thing here.
Okay, so unfortunately,
and this never came up during our testing
because I only ever used these to clip to each other
to keep the zipper from coming open
and just to kind of look cool.
So maybe someone grabbed it funny
or maybe they tried to hang something from it,
which not really intended for,
but given how much work we put into the durability
of other aspects of the bag, we should have caught it.
Yeah.
There's only a skinny little,
skinny chicken piece of metal here
that holds this in place.
So while the spring is fine
and it'll last for a long time like this,
if you put pressure on it from the side,
you can break it off pretty easily.
Wow, yeah.
Yeah, that was not a ton of force.
No.
So, to be clear, past third-party lab tests,
so our supplier follows ISO 9001 for quality,
past testing within their system
and through our third-party lab
for expected force applied during normal use,
however, there will always be some part-to-part variance
across 160,000 pieces, right?
There's four per bag.
So there's always gonna be a failure rate,
but it's clear that this is a core component
that I think just accidentally
could have a higher failure rate
than we consider to be acceptable.
So, nope, you're not done yet, Dan, I'm so sorry.
You gotta have a look at some of our new options.
Okay.
So what are we doing from here?
We're actively working on a solid long-term solution,
which should include a care package
for everyone who bought the backpack
that will include three things.
Standard regular zipper pulls
for people who want to opt out of the carabiner entirely,
and there are reasons people might wanna do this.
Maybe they wanna put a padlock on it
for even more security or if they wanna check their bag
or whatever the case may be.
That is some feedback that we got.
So I guess this is an opportunity to rectify that.
We are also working on,
it will also include an updated carabiner pull,
and we are working on, we've actually already prototyped it,
but they didn't give it to me for the show today.
We're working on just a cheap injection molded tool
that will help you pry up the little retainer
for the carabiner pull that you have on there.
And then the other end should allow you
to clamp it back down and replace it
with either a standard zipper pull
or a replacement carabiner pull.
So this is to everyone who has currently received backpacks.
What about the staged orders?
I believe, actually, that's a good question.
I don't know what will happen with those.
We'll figure it out.
Okay.
It should be a fairly small operation to swap them,
so either we'll swap them or we'll include the swap kit.
It seems to make more sense for us to swap them,
but I don't know the answer to that,
so we'll have to figure that out for you.
All right, so in the meantime,
here are some examples of carabiner pulls
that we are looking at that you might end up getting
because the original one is not so great anymore.
You know what?
No, I'll show you this one after.
Let's start with this one.
And Luke, do you wanna kinda have a look at these
and tell us your thoughts?
How does this go on a zipper?
Well, it would be a lot smaller.
Okay, okay.
It would be kinda like that.
Yeah.
If you wanna hold it just a little more
in front of the laptop.
It's still, this is a little odd.
You can still get some side-to-side play,
but I'm putting quite a bit of force on that,
and nothing's really happening.
Yeah, well, it locks.
That's the difference.
Oh.
Yeah, anything that locks is gonna be a little bit better.
Yeah, yeah, I pushed pretty hard in both directions.
Yeah, it's ugly and looks like crap.
Yeah, pretty much.
So it's out.
We've also got this one.
Dan, don't try to follow us too much.
We'll follow you.
We can see you.
This one just has like a little wire majig here
that kinda-
This is similar, but only one direction.
You know what?
No, I gotta hold this way closer.
Okay, let's get this boy.
Let's get this boy close.
There you go.
So it's just a little wire thing.
Looks like crap,
especially compared to the original carabiner pole,
so I don't consider this acceptable either.
Both of these are cheap,
so that's a good thing about them.
This one is, I'd say,
the closest to our existing carabiner pole.
So does that have like basically shields on each side
holding it in place?
Is that what's going on?
It's a lot thicker metal.
We could also re-engineer the original one
to have like thicker metal sides like this one does,
but we found a solution that we like better.
Okay, this one I'll let you play with.
It's really expensive.
Of course.
I have, I have...
No, no, Dan.
Here, here, here, here, here.
I have notoriously expensive taste.
It looks beautiful.
Is this how it will look like final product?
No, it'll be smaller because it's really big.
So it'll, but it'll probably look very similar to this.
So the camera can't see it at all,
but it looks like it's like tempered.
Is that?
It's titanium.
Oh, okay.
I'm really glad at one point in the development process.
That doesn't have structural issues?
Hold on, we'll talk about it in a sec.
At one point in the development process for the backpack,
we considered having carabiner pulls on every single zipper
and we were like, ah, it's a bit much.
Given the cost of this.
How much is, is this like?
I'm really glad it's only four per bag.
We'll be okay.
But.
How much is this?
It's really nice.
Here, can I?
I feel like if you bought that individually,
it would be like double digit dollars.
No, it'll run you, oh shoot, wrong thing.
Bloody hell.
Okay, there you go.
So here's what it is, guys.
It's a one piece.
Here, I'll hold it here.
It's a one piece titanium clip here.
You gotta show the bottom when you do that.
Yeah, the hinge is just like this.
It just bends.
Yeah, it just, yeah.
Just like, it just, it just bends.
It's got like this, I don't know, shape to it that
kind of, yeah, okay.
There you go.
There you go.
There you go.
There you go.
So it's got these like slits in it,
but because it's titanium, it's super strong.
And so it bends both here and here.
And then, yeah, well, side to side,
it doesn't give any Fs because it's titanium, right?
So you could just, I don't know,
do whatever you want to it.
So it looks like it moves a fair amount,
but it's not gonna break.
So it might have a little bit of play.
But it's not gonna break.
But it shouldn't break.
So this is the, thanks Dan, you're good.
This is the current front runner solution.
So everyone who gets a bag will get something
and it'll either be like a pack of something like this
and standard poles or a re-engineered version
of the original carabiner pole and standard poles.
And then we're gonna be working on that tool.
One thing that I wanna warn you guys about now,
don't feel like, oh yeah, this weekend,
I'm gonna go do this.
So I'm gonna change my pole.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
The way that the YKK zipper is designed
is to be permanently installed.
So yes, you can bend it up and you can bend it down
like once.
Otherwise-
A lot of metal doesn't like doing that.
Yeah, it'll fatigue the metal and it will break.
So please, pliss, no, pliss, no, do that.
And that's not the kind of thing that we're gonna be like,
oh, this is your third bag.
Yeah, well, you know, these things happen.
Here's a new one.
Like, don't do that.
That's intentional damage
because it will be very clear in the packaging
of the replacement kit that you are intended to do it once.
A bunch of people saying they like the S carabiner.
That's like the ugliest one out of all.
Like S.
And scaled down to the size of a zipper pole,
it's not gonna work very well.
It's not an appropriate design for what we're doing.
Yeah.
As a former fastener salesman,
please reach out to a smaller fastener specialist
for more and cheaper options, please, pliss.
I mean, it's not a fastener though.
It's like, it's kind of just a decorative zipper pole.
Like it's not intended to really do anything.
That was another thing.
I saw a picture of someone talking about this
and they were like, this isn't built like how it should be.
And then they had like a climbing carabiner.
I was like, these are not.
Yeah, it's not for climbing.
They just link together.
They're not supposed to be load bearing.
They are just that a side to side pressure was unacceptable,
but they're also not for that.
Why even show the ones you're not considering
to show you guys kind of what we looked at
to ultimately reach what we think
is gonna be our best option
so that you guys can understand the process.
Are you complaining that we're just being transparent?
I don't get it.
If we're at risk, if we use the fancy one,
if that was a thing, we wouldn't use it.
But we will find a very good solution
that people will be very happy with
and everything will be okay.
Yeah, it'll be all right.
Don't worry guys, we got this.
Yeah.
All right.
Oh, in other.
It's not a recall in the sense
that people have to send their bags back.
No.
Yeah, okay.
No, it's, I mean, you can recall a component of something
and the solution is just to send people a new that thing.
Yeah, okay, cool.
So that's the way we're gonna handle it.
All right.
In other controversial news,
the Oura ring, excuse me,
video got pulled from short circuit this week.
Yeah, I know nothing about this,
but that was very surprising.
Yeah, so our history with Oura,
and I'll explain why I've changed my pronunciation here
in a moment.
Our history with them is a little complicated.
First, we were gonna do a sponsored video
for their gen two ring, which they sent us
and I used for a while and liked.
Then that never happened,
or maybe we shot it and like ultimately didn't publish it.
Somehow the deal fell through.
It's like, okay, you know, it happens, right?
I liked the product.
I got an upgrade offer to the gen three ring
that would make it so that I would not have to pay
the monthly fee.
They basically said, if you have a gen two ring
and you upgrade to the gen three,
you will be grandfathered in for life
to not have to pay the monthly subscription.
I was like, I like this product.
I do not like monthly subscriptions, fine.
Gen three ring has some cool new features.
I don't really care about them, but sure.
So I was using that for a while.
Maybe they saw me using it.
I know a lot of you saw me using it and asked,
oh, what's that, how do you like it, et cetera, et cetera.
So they reached out and they were like,
okay, let's try this again.
So their new gen three horizon design, they sent it over.
We shot a sponsored short circuit.
We got as far as uploading the video.
In the video, I talked a lot about how it is a product
I actually use, I like it.
Of course, any sponsored video,
I still can't say anything I don't actually believe
like by law.
Some people don't take that very seriously, I do.
So everything I said was stuff that I believed.
And one of the things I believed was that the pronunciation
of their company, O-U-R-A was URA.
It's not.
It's ARA, like A-U-R-A, so.
To be completely honest,
I thought their company was named A-U-R-A.
No, it's O-U-R-A.
Cause I don't think, I think I've heard you say it
more than I've read it.
So I always just thought it was, yeah, anyways.
Anywho, so I said it wrong repeatedly in the video
because, and this kind of ties into what I said earlier
in the show about, I only read things.
I don't watch or listen to them.
So I have only ever, the only context I have
is how it's spelled.
And you know, I think that at this stage in our company,
we should probably have processes for making sure
that the pronunciation of things,
particularly on a sponsored video is correct,
but it slipped through the cracks
and we shot a whole video with the name wrong.
They were apparently very upset.
And we offered a fix, which was,
I think we were gonna use the YouTube editor
to be like, LOL, I just got the name pronounced wrong
and a pinned comment.
They weren't happy with it.
And a trigger happy newbie here by the name of Colton
reacted to this by pulling the video.
Actually, it was a decision that was made
in the business department
before I really got an opportunity to weigh in on it.
We were told that there was no way for us
to make a change to the video to alter the pronunciation
because of YouTube's policy.
But I was like, okay, yeah,
but I might've been able to call people.
Once the video is pulled, it's dead.
You can't, yeah, you can put it live again,
but nobody's gonna watch it.
That initial burst from publishing,
unless it's a miracle viral video,
it's not gonna, nothing good's gonna come of it
if you republish it.
But so it was pulled,
so it was kind of too late to do anything about it.
And I might've not been able to do anything about it anyway.
It might've been the same decision.
So really this is just about maintaining transparency
for you guys, not blaming anyone.
It was a team decision that was made.
I was not informed,
but I might've made the same decision anyway.
So the bottom line is we pulled the video.
We're not putting it back up.
This isn't the first time we've had difficulty
dealing with aura.
I like the product, but you know,
I don't think they're bad thing, bad people or anything.
I just think it's fair to say that we are unlikely
to attempt to work with them again at this point.
And it's left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.
It wasn't entirely their fault for sure.
Like, you know, I get it.
But also, you know, I think their reaction
was not really helpful.
I don't think it was really constructive.
I also don't think that it was an unmakeable mistake.
O-U-R-A.
I would've guessed URA.
Yeah, maybe you should have paid for, you know,
the domain and trademark aura A-U-R-A,
if that's what you wanted.
Like you can't just spell stuff wrong and then be like,
what made you pronounce it right?
Like, come on guys.
There's also like tons of different things like that
that get quote unquote pronounced wrong.
Also in a full-plane chat, I mentioned Nvidia Thai.
Yeah.
No one at Nvidia even knows whether it's TI or Thai.
Or Asus in general.
There's lots of them.
The better way to do it is to attack it with humor.
Asus did that.
They made some like joke videos back in the day
about how to pronounce their name and stuff.
Uh, OopulanceGT in Twitch chat says,
the oo-yah pronounced it oo-yah.
So it's not like I was coming at this
completely out of nowhere.
I didn't even think about that.
Like it's just.
One of the things is you never know
where the root language is from.
So those letters in combination
from different root languages
might make different sounds and stuff.
Like it's actually really hard to just read something
in English letters and know what it means.
Cyan Wave says, I agree Linus,
you should have done diligence
and taken the error on the chin, your fault.
Yeah, but it's not about fault.
You know, like in business,
you can take a very hard line stance like that, but.
Then you don't have a video
given to tons of people about the product.
It's not constructive, right?
Like it's about finding a fix that works for everyone
and getting it done, right?
So yeah, sure.
Assign blame, go ahead.
But it's not helpful, right?
So it's about what are you trying to do?
Are you trying to just kill a relationship
and never work together again?
Then by all means, be like that, right?
But if you're trying to fix it
and trying to move forward,
which is what smart business people do,
then you gotta take a different stance, right?
Like you gotta, I mean,
anyone that I've ever coached on email etiquette,
probably including you,
one of the first things I'll tell you
is even though you know 100%
that it's the other person's fault
and that they're an idiot
and they're ass covering or whatever,
the first thing you do is say,
I'm sorry, I might've misunderstood.
I might've, yeah.
That's actually been one of the most useful things too,
because a lot of the times you can be like 95, 98%
sure you're right.
But if you say I might've misunderstood,
it's very likely you'll get more information
and then they will end up figuring out
that they made the mistake,
which is just easier for everyone.
It's simple math.
The second you attack someone, they will be defensive.
It's a battle now.
They are on the defense.
And in a lot of situations, you don't want a battle.
You want a resolution
because you just want the problem to be fixed.
So it's easier to just be like,
whatever I might've misunderstood
is a way to say like, I'm not placing blame,
but let's just solve the problem, which is better.
M. Hindman says,
Linus, stop putting your foot in it.
In that last segment,
you throw your staff under the bus
and criticize the sponsor.
I'm telling you guys what happened.
That's what happened.
What more can I say?
Did I say that I pronounced it right?
No.
Did I say I did my due diligence?
Nope.
Did I say I pronounced it wrong
and that I didn't do my due diligence?
Yes.
Okay.
What do you guys,
like, ultimately, what do you want from me, right?
Like, what can I do?
What can I do other than be transparent?
Should I just not tell you things?
I feel like we've run into this a fair bit lately.
I've brought this up before.
This is actually a really big problem.
The way I've brought it up is devs on stage.
A lot of people want to hear directly
from developers very often,
but then when a developer missteps
or says something slightly incorrectly
or says a thing that people decide that they shouldn't have,
one of the examples that I bring up is the,
don't you guys have phones comment
from the Blizzard developer?
Like, yeah, that was stupid.
Of course.
Both other people in this room cringed when I said it.
Yes, that was really stupid.
But the more you really heavily attack stuff like that,
the less devs on stage.
That's true.
Because they're going to throw a PR person at you.
I'm like, is that really what you want?
Because you got to think about what you're attacking,
what you're criticizing, right?
It gets a little sketchy.
If you want the real information,
if you want the knowledge, whatever,
you gotta be a little,
you gotta take it sometimes.
Yep.
And sometimes that dev on stage is going to say something
real dumb,
but you still want that dev on stage.
All right.
You think you want it, but you don't?
Yeah, that's another quote.
Blizzard has a lot of them,
but Blizzard has put devs on stage at BlizzCon
for a long time.
So like, it makes sense.
They're going to say some dumb stuff.
And it is what it is.
On the subject of dumb stuff,
the Lab32 branding is officially dead.
Sag.
I want to make it very clear
that it had nothing to do with Sara Dietschy.
She was an absolute gem about the whole thing.
She basically was like, yeah,
I mean, seems pretty chill to me.
Here's, you know, what we have.
Have I talked about this already on my show?
No, I don't think so.
I've gotten like a deja vu moment.
Well, at any rate, I've talked about it.
The cancellation of the name.
Yeah, you've talked about the situation that's going on,
but I don't think you've talked about us
not running with the name.
So she was super chill about it.
Amazing.
She was like, yeah, we'll make it work.
We'll figure it out.
And ultimately, because we found out
that there was a 30-day return period for the domain,
we kind of went, yeah, thank you, Sara, for real.
Like, what a bro.
But we're just gonna figure out something else
so that we don't have to worry
about any kind of misunderstanding.
Like, I don't want people misunderstanding us,
misunderstanding her,
confusing the two companies, thinking they're affiliated.
And there was already some people
that seemed genuinely confused,
so especially because they launched within the same week,
at least were announced within the same week.
So in a full plane chat,
said, what about lab 32 version 2 by 2?
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Super speed lab 32.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
That's pretty good.
Um, I don't, I haven't heard any plans for anything different.
Has there, do you have maybe no public thoughts on that?
I'm assuming, um, sorry, but on a new name, on a new name, other than lab 32.
Cause you're walking back the branding.
Yeah.
You have any that you're leaving towards even privately?
I don't.
Well, yeah.
Privately, I feel like we could, we could just go for, man, I don't know.
I think privately lttlabs.com in my mind is just kind of the obvious one.
At this point.
We tried, we have it, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
We, we, we tried to do something else and I did just maybe give up.
We can, we can run with it.
I think there's some people on the team that don't want to do that.
Oh, there's, there's some people on the team that really don't want to do that.
But for better or for worse, it has a lot of brand equity.
We already own it.
It's easy.
It is easy and we do already own it and it is very like people will know that it's us working on it and it hits all those points and that's good.
Um, but yeah, yeah.
Uh, there's, there's another topic we can jump into, uh, lab 64 wasn't available for those of you asking, that's also really, yeah, and part of the, part of the beauty of lab 32 was that it could be LTT if we ever decided to retcon the Linus tech tips, meaning of LTT lab 32.
Yeah, thanks for clarifying.
Well, I think a lot of people didn't get that last time we talked about it, right?
You've mentioned that before, and I think it whiffed like a ton of people, so I'm trying to try to make it because I think the domain was numerical, so I think people didn't put that together, but yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah.
All right.
What do you want to talk about next?
Um, should we talk about dbrand lab 69 also wasn't available.
We did check.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Let's talk about dbrand thing.
7,000 yikes.
Bad situation, do you know about this?
I didn't actually, uh, the magnet used to attach the kickstand to the rear of the kill switch case can affect the RPM of the internal fan of certain steam decks.
That's a problem.
Yeah, that's not good.
Valve was initially shipping the steam deck with fans from two different, oh,
that sucks.
Okay.
So they were shipping the fans for two different suppliers.
So TLDR, I haven't even read it yet, but I'm sure it's going to go there.
One of the fans is not going to be affected by this, and I'm sure this is the one that the dbrand was working with, the dbrand, that dbrand was working with, and the other one is affected by it.
So yeah, it sounds like the Delta version of the fans are affected by the magnet.
And then I have no idea how to pronounce this.
Huaiying?
Huaiying?
Huaiying probably, I don't know.
Yeah, those ones are not affected by the magnet.
Yeah.
And okay.
Yeah.
Steam decks used by dbrand for testing all have the Huaiying fans or however they're pronounced.
Fan speeds dropped by 1500 to 2500 RPM.
That's a big problem.
That's a huge problem.
This is a mobile device.
You don't need to have a mobile device.
You don't screw around with cooling for a mobile device.
Yeah, they're usually pretty dialed in.
It's not cool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
This fan behavior went unnoticed by other content creators slash press outlets until The Verge were shipped a few kill switch cases.
dbrand borrowed a Delta fan equipped model from YouTuber, a really cool guy, Dave2D, and confirmed the findings by The Verge.
After confirming the issue, dbrand made an 11th hour decision to suspend all kill switch sales.
Per dbrand, word on the grapevine is that Valve no longer uses the whiny Delta fan in the production of steam decks, switching exclusively to the Huaiying component, which is the one that isn't affected.
So that's good, I guess.
Yeah, but they're still out there.
Yeah, and we don't we have no way of knowing.
We know which one it is without taking it apart, and as cool as it is that you can do that, most users are not going to want to do that.
After confirming the issue, dbrand made, oh yeah, I think I already said that, but they're suspending all kill switch sales, which sucks.
Per dbrand, oh, I already talked about all this, where am I?
The issue is limited to the magnetic kickstand.
The case itself, travel cover, stick grips, and tempered glass screen protectors do not cause any issues.
That we know of yet.
Yeah, yeah.
Probably not.
So maybe we'll see those separately or something?
No, it should be fine. There's no magnets in the other ones, so it should be fine.
Oh, and unfortunately, because I thought the magnetic system was super cool.
Well, I don't think it's necessarily going away.
Because in response to this discovery, dbrand is pivoting from the magnetic mount to a mechanical interlocking system for the kickstand and future accessories.
So what's going to happen is if you already ordered a magnetic version one, you're going to get that, and then they're going to also send you a mechanical one.
Just in case you find it causes a problem with your system?
Well, because that's the thing, you might not notice it causes a problem.
So they want people using the mechanical one.
Now, I, a savvy user, I'm going to open up my Steam Deck, make sure I've got a Huaiying fan, and I'm going to use my magnetic one five ever.
But that's not going to help anyone else.
If you have a Delta one, you can buy a Steam Deck fan replacement from iFixit.
Yes, that's true.
You can tell if this is Delta or Huaiying, but considering they said they're going to stop working with Delta, it should be Huaiying.
So that's an option if it comes down to that.
Rough day for dbrand.
Yeah, that sucks.
You don't want to go through all that product development and everything and have a problem like, oh, all the units that you had happened to have the fan that it would be fine with.
That's so unfortunate.
That just sucks.
Whoa, we just got rated on Twitch.
Seven people showed up.
Nice.
Nice, thanks AD Penrose.
Thank you.
Rating is a weird thing to me.
Yeah.
But hey, thanks.
It can be cool.
Welcome, Raiders.
Yeah, indeed.
All seven of us.
There's literally half dozen of us.
Should we talk about my absolutely thrilling night last night?
Yeah, what are you talking about?
He's been talking about this, like he's been vague posting all day about this.
I wanted to talk to you about it because it's very absurd and I know you'd laugh at me for it and it would be a fun conversation.
So I just decided that, hey, we don't always get to talk that often.
Might as well just do it on WAN Show.
I guess so.
I mean, we talked a lot like yesterday, but sure.
That's probably true.
Or Wednesday.
No, yeah, because I was going to say I would have talked to you about this.
Yeah, we talked for like two hours on Wednesday, but yeah, we don't talk.
This hadn't happened yet.
Yeah, whatever, sure.
This hadn't happened yet.
Yeah, sure.
So I was wandering around various parks with a gigantic bird cage playing bird noises from my phone, trying to not look crazy.
You lost your birds?
So I'm smiling because, no, it wasn't ours.
But someone else did.
So we were trying to help.
Emma, my girlfriend, her name's public, it's fine.
Emma found, she was walking around a park for funsies.
Since when is her name public?
Oh, yeah, I guess she streams.
I mean, I just try to call it planty time.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I usually try to do that for people that I'm not 100% sure of, but I'm sure of her.
She found a little posted little sign thing begging for help in a park and was like, we kind of know how to do this.
So she was going at it pretty hard and eventually convinced me to come help.
And the strategy, which does actually kind of work, is that you walk around with a cage because a lot of house tamed birds understand that cage usually means water, food, and safety.
Right, okay.
And you play bird noises because budgies are super, super flock animals.
And the second they hear chirping, they chirp back and then they want to come join it.
So it'll like get them to come to you and then when they get to you, they see like, oh, cage and food and water.
And this is that thing that I used to go into.
And when I would go into it, things were good.
So it's very likely that they'll actually go inside.
Right.
Also, there had been some sightings of the bird, not by us.
And it was trying to socialize with people and the people would like take a picture of it and then walk away.
Budgies are not native to BC.
If that happens, try to get it because it is someone's bird.
And it will die.
And it will die.
Yeah.
Like it was very scary for the actually days that it was out.
I was very surprised it survived that long.
We unfortunately weren't the ones that ended up finding it. Someone else did, which is good.
But it got found.
Another bird owner found it.
Oh, wow.
But yeah, it got found because again, it wants to be.
It was going up to people being like, hey, help me.
There's a picture online of it sitting on a jungle gym next to some kid trying to be like, hey.
And you can tell from the body language, if you know birds, you can tell from the body language.
It's like, pay attention to me.
Hello.
And there's other pictures of it like sitting on a park bench next to people just like on the park bench amongst people.
Like it was clearly comfortable with people and trying to get help.
And people just kept taking pictures of it.
Obviously a pet.
Yeah.
Which was crazy to me, but I don't know.
But yeah, the person that found it had birds, but was not a part of the actual rescue operation.
They just like happened to find it.
And be smart.
And our concern right now is that no one knows who the actual owner is.
It was just a bunch of people reporting like this is clearly someone's bird.
Oh, so we don't know.
Don't know who the owner is.
Oh.
I might have said that oddly at the beginning.
Yeah.
We thought you were helping the owner.
So the report was that someone had seen the social posts and immediately clued in that it was someone's bird, but it wasn't their bird.
But they were like, we should try to help this, whoever this bird this is.
So the person that has it doesn't really want to like bring it to a vet and stuff.
And it's like being all weird about it and kind of wants to keep it.
But there's nothing that like we can do about it.
So it's a weird night, but there's like a halfway happy ending.
It's no longer outdoors where it has a huge chance of not surviving.
Right.
So that's good.
Now it's indoors where it also has a huge chance of not surviving because it's a budgie.
There's a concern there.
Yep.
That's the thing.
Luke's had some bad luck.
It's yeah, it's been better lately, but birds are very fragile, especially really tiny birds.
They get sick very quickly.
They're flock animals.
They don't want the flock to abandon them.
So they try to hide their sickness and they don't exactly have a lot of mass.
So they they tend to die very quickly.
Does the bird have microchips?
I don't know.
We weren't the ones that caught it.
I don't think so.
Can you microchip a bird?
Usually you put a little band around its foot.
Yeah.
I mean, microchips are very different.
Yeah.
It's like injection.
I knew what they meant.
Yeah.
Someone else said, is it banded?
I don't.
I don't if from the pictures, I don't remember.
I don't think it was, though.
But yeah, that was that was interesting.
I was talking to my girlfriend afterwards, and she was talking about how when she's walking
because she's doing the same thing.
She took the small cage.
I had a really big one.
My hands were very unhappy by the end of it because it's just this like wire that I have
to hold the cage on.
But she's walking around playing budgie noises and holding this cage.
And a bunch of people apparently were like, Todd, you're like, Oh, what are you doing?
Whatever.
No one talked to me.
Not a single person.
I had a lot of people that were like jogging and they just got a lot of pretty privilege
and look it up.
It's a thing.
People would like avoid eye contact.
They'd run by.
I had one old dude who's going for a walk.
I walked by him, and he's like in the middle of the track, and he's like walking with the
cane and stuff.
So I go off the track and walk in the grass just so he has an easy time.
And I notice I can just tell that he has completely stopped and turned around and just stared
at me as I walk away.
I've seen a lot of things in my life, but I never seen that before.
The amount of kids that would like hear the bird sounds, see that I'm holding a cage and
like get kind of excited and look at the cage and then realize there's no bird and just
look at me really confused and like, what's happening?
Yeah.
You have a new nickname and flow playing chat, by the way, local nutter Luke.
Yeah.
I mean, probably.
I was trying to help.
Okay.
Oh man.
But yeah, we went to like, there's a lot of little parks around that area and the rescue
group had like tracked the movements and stuff.
So we were trying to figure out like where he would probably be next.
Yeah.
It's amazing how the difference between nice helper and terrifying person is like a Y chromosome
and like 75 pounds.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, anyway, should we talk about, do you want to talk about rise in 7,000 versus 13th gen?
Do you want to talk about the fight?
Let's talk about the fight.
Let's talk about the fight.
Actually, no, we just did a non tech topic.
Let's talk about the tech topic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, all right.
General consensus on rise in 7,000.
These are some incredible chips that are bringing massive gains like 20 to 30% improvements
over their last gen counterparts in gaming and productivity.
The 7950 X is undoubtedly the fastest mainstream CPU available and dominates everyone in productivity
tasks, but the expense of the platform is a real issue.
Is this, is this AMD I'm talking about?
That's weird.
Or is this Intel?
You don't, you don't think like insanely the, so my understanding is, yeah, the boards are
like $500 each.
Yep.
That's crazy that we are seeing prices that are lower now.
That was just right at launch.
We're seeing as low as 250 bucks for an as rock X six 70 PG X is in the EPG lightning,
but am five only supports DDR five, which remains twice as expensive per gig as comparable
DDR four.
And the other issue as we outlined in our review is that AMD zone rise in seven 50 100
X three D has gaming performance that matches that of the new 7700 X and only legs behind
the rise in nines by like a couple of percent on average.
So for gamers, the upgrade to am five is currently not looking like a great value, especially
because am four boards and chips are cheap and cheerful.
And here's the thing you can look at am foreign.
You can go, well, there's no upgrade path and that's nice, but not everybody can actually
afford the latest generation version of the am four platform.
I have never been super sold on, on board upgrade paths.
What if you are buying a rise in 2000 today because you want to like get a deal.
Okay.
Am four for you has an upgrade path a couple of years from now, three years from now, boom,
you go rise in 5,000 with that same board, you just got a big upgrade and probably for
cheap.
Yeah.
Right.
So you got to think, not everybody is thinking.
In terms of brand new today.
Yeah.
Um, and, and especially these days we're like, okay, the performance jumps we're seeing on
some of the hardware that's coming out is immense, like actually just huge, but the
performance that people need at the same time to reach like competitive frame rates and
stuff is not huge and it's not increasing at anywhere near the same rate.
So the gap between people's computer upgrades is getting like bigger and bigger and bigger
as far as I can tell.
So you don't necessarily need to upgrade your CPU within generation every single time, but
you definitely don't want to upgrade at all.
If the motherboards minimum cost is $500, which again, it's gone down, but still that's
really intense.
Um, when we looked at productivity, the 7,600 X and 7,700 X were another issue.
They don't really offer compelling performance over Intel's 12th gen mainstream chips, although
their higher core counts, oh, though the higher core counts on the 7,900 X and 7,950 X allow
them to run away with the productivity crown, but that's an issue.
Has AMD done it again?
Have they gone from the expensive brand?
That's not really competitive in the mid range and low end.
There have also been concerns expressed by the community around how hot these chips get.
They will often run at 95 degrees on the hottest core before dialing back.
But AMD says that this is by design and if you want, you can target 115 degrees with
an overclock before throttling and hard crashes will happen.
So far we've been unable to get any of our chips to run hotter than 105 and we're not
sure why.
My current computer like heats my house.
I don't, I don't need more of that.
Well, here's the thing.
How hot the dye is in degrees Celsius is not indicative of how much heat it outputs.
You could have a router that has its CPU running at a hundred degrees.
It's not outputting a lot of heat.
The thermals are just not being properly managed.
You could have a 300 watt chip that is running at 70 degrees with liquid cooling on it and
it is still kicking 300 Watts into your room.
It's just not running hot.
If you guys kind of understand what I mean.
Conservation of energy.
All right.
It doesn't matter what temperature it's at.
It matters how much actual power it is consuming and therefore thermal energy it is outputting
in terms of maintaining room temperatures.
Yeah.
What were you going to say?
Der Bauer did some stuff with that as well.
Is that in here?
Yeah.
He, he de-lidded 7900X.
And dropped like, I think it's, I think it was like 20 degrees or something.
Yeah.
So there is some speculation that AMD may have sacrificed thermal performance to maintain
cooler compatibility with AM4 coolers, in which case, good guy, AMD, but I haven't seen
any confirmation of that.
What we didn't touch on in our review, hmm, performance scaling with RAM speeds.
So we'll have to follow that up.
I was going to say that was kind of interesting to me and immediately made me think like,
okay, there's going to be another video.
Eco mode, a lower power consumption mode for the CPU and manual overclocking.
Now in the same week, actually the next day Intel didn't launch, but announced their 13th
version processors.
With most of the details really being around the flagship 13, 900 K 5.8 gigahertz, turbo
24 cores.
Now 16 of those are efficiency or E-cores and only eight of them are their performance
course, but 24 cores and their E-cores aren't that slow.
They're like Skylake level.
Like they're not, they're not bad.
And $589.
Hmm.
Uh, the presentation was kind of fun, 24% performance improvement in games.
Some games, one game is legal legends.
I think it was legal legends.
I didn't know it was one.
It's like league of legends or dota.
I thought it was going to be like two or three, at least 34% faster in game development, blender
UE five, uh, the cry five and cry seven C similar, but lesser improvements to speed
cash size and core count.
And the real winner is efficiency gains.
Okay.
Intel alleges that at 65 Watts, the 13, 900 K.
So they also, I guess, might have like a similar eco mode, uh, performs on par with a 12, 900
K at 241 Watts and a multi-threaded workload.
That's a quarter of the power consumption.
If that holds true.
The big one though, is that Intel is going to have the affordable platform.
Yeah.
You can pick up a 13th gen chip, a Z six 90 board rather than seven 90 because seven 90
only acts add some more gen four lanes and USB bandwidth.
So you can get a last gen board or B six 60 board.
Doesn't matter as long as it's got a good enough VRM, you get some DDR four memory.
You throw this 13th gen chip on there.
And to be clear, we are going to check this out for you guys.
We're going to make sure that with DDR four, it actually performs well, um, and you're
going to be able, you're going to have like a latest gen platform for literally hundreds
of dollars less.
I don't necessarily think the motherboard thing is going to stay the same though.
If we've already seen the availability pop up with boards that are half the price of
what we were originally talking about.
No.
Okay.
So no, AMDs boards will come down, the boards will come down, but they haven't launched
their budget chip set yet.
And for 13th gen, neither has Intel, but because you're able to use a last gen board and all
you're missing out on is some PCI lanes on the, on the Southbridge.
I don't know what they call it anymore, but whatever the motherboard chips that IO hub,
because you're just missing out on some PCI lanes and USB ports for gamers, you're not
giving up anything.
You go for your last gen board with the cheapo mainstream chip set.
You put your latest gen chip, you put your last gen memory.
That's another thing.
DDR five.
Yeah.
It's going to come down in price, but it sure as heck isn't today and you might be building
a system today.
Now this is the kind of competition I love to see because it's going to be back and forth
for 14th gen, right?
Intel's probably going to do their thing where a socket, socket compatibility is only maintained
for two generations.
So it'll be a whole new platform with whole new expensive boards, right?
Meanwhile AMD is going to have budget like B 760 or I forget what their, what their budget
boards are going to be called for this new platform, six something anyway, whatever they're
going to have new boards.
DDR five might be closer to price parity by that point.
And AMD is all of a sudden going to look like the good bet I, I, but I love it.
It's back and forth.
It's it's, it's punches and you know, I just, ah, I love seeing them Duke it out.
I love, okay.
A lot of people say they want competition, but they don't really want competition.
They want someone to make a product that's like good enough to keep the brand that they
like honest and they're just going to buy that brand no matter what that other company
comes out with.
But this is true competition.
This is, this is two real options.
Yeah, that's cool.
Not just something that's like good enough that the, the monopolist can't price it at
whatever they want.
I am, I'm stoked.
I think the brand wars are going to cook up because of that.
Because for the last little while it's just been like buy AMD, buy MD, buy MD.
But now that there's hopefully good arguments, both ways, depending on like specifically
what you're doing and all that kind of stuff should make things a little bit more interesting.
And I mean, you've got mid cycle refreshes, man.
Mid cycle refreshes are a thing now.
AMD is already talking about adding 3DV cache.
Intel already teased a KS version of this chip at over five gigahertz or six rather.
Ah, yeah, it's exciting.
It's exciting.
Yeah, it's good.
You want to talk about the fight?
Yes.
Spoiler alert.
If you haven't seen the latest channel, Super Fun, we will be talking about the result of
the epic, epic battle between me and Dennis.
For context, you know, again, like it's so tedious seeing, you know, my words and actions
taken in the worst possible light.
So for context, no, I did not require Dennis to fight me so that I could like prove my
manhood or something.
I don't know.
Be a lot more interesting if you did.
But regardless of what you're talking about, Dennis challenged me to a fight.
And what he told me was that he was sick of hearing me complain about my scratched floor.
So if he won, I could never talk about it again.
And obviously this was for content.
He thought it was a really good video concept.
I agreed.
So we greenlit it.
And the challenge was that Dennis was going to be allowed some amount of time to train.
It was not a lot of, it was not like a normal amount of time for a fight.
Yeah.
Like I think it was like a couple of weeks or something like that.
Yeah.
Like actually two.
Yeah.
Like it was.
Well, he had more time than that.
He could have trained, but he wasn't filming.
A lot of fights are like months out.
Oh, Oh yeah.
I mean, I remember being blown away because I didn't realize how demanding it is when
I found out that like top fighters would fight like once a year.
Yeah.
I was like, Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Well, and they train specifically for that fight.
Sometimes they're moving weight classes.
Like there's a lot of things involved with it.
However, I will say this, Dennis trained a lot more than me, which was zero.
I help out in my, in my girls' class.
Okay.
Yeah.
Cause I was going to ask about that because we had talked and you said that you didn't
train anymore.
No.
And then when I watched the video, there was footage of you there.
Yeah.
But like you looked a little rigid and like you weren't really training.
So I was wondering like, were you doing a demonstration?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
I was, I'm there to be like a, like a black belt helper in the class.
Um, and like I go around and help, help correct form.
And stuff like that.
Like I don't remember any of my patterns or anything like that.
So I'm like, but you can see when something's like, obviously wrong.
Yeah.
And like if the, if the, if the master's like, uh, yeah.
Can you help them with, with this?
I'm like, okay.
Yeah.
How's that go again?
Yeah.
Yeah.
No problem.
Got it.
Right.
I can immediately pick things up again because it's all stuff I've done before.
It's just 20 years.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, so that's what I, that's what I was doing.
I'm not actually like training or anything like that.
So the challenge was Dennis would get a couple of weeks to train and I would be going in
cold.
Yeah.
Hold on.
You're making that face.
But Dennis has as much martial arts training as I do.
No, I made that face as a black belt because I was reminded of the fact that he's doing
so this was, this was a specifically Taekwondo fight.
Yes.
And he went, he went to a Krav Maga.
Well, I don't know.
Look, he didn't ask me for advice on how you should train.
So like, yeah, he spent two weeks training.
He also did some weird stuff in that like, I mean, Krav Maga was super cool, but like,
so what?
Okay.
Not for this.
I think there are other ways he could have done it, but I do understand why he did it.
Why he did Krav Maga.
Why?
Okay.
The reason he did that is because Dennis's biggest problem is that all you have to do
is move fast near him and you're like, yeah, you're like flinches, right?
He's a flinchy boy.
And so you actually saw that in the beginning of the video when I was laughing at him.
Cause I was like, I was basically, I've been teasing him off camera as well.
I'm like, dude, you're not, you don't have a chance because all I have to do is go like,
Oh yeah, you did that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it worked right.
He was, he was like, you can't do that.
Yeah.
He was trying not to flinch.
Cause I had already been doing that to him for like a week.
Like every time I saw him, I'd be like, yeah, Dennis.
That actually makes a lot more sense because I haven't watched the whole video yet, but
he, he, the Krav Maga guy is like, okay, we got to do this because you need to like drop
your nerves and like be able to be more calm.
Exactly.
So that was the whole goal.
Okay.
Exactly.
So he was trying to be less twitchy.
Yeah.
And, and less like freak outy, uh, when, whenever something, I will say at the fight, maybe
that actually really worked because he didn't do that.
Like at all.
Really.
He did some moves that were very derpy, um, like keeping his arms down like this and other
stuff like that.
Okay.
So we should talk.
We should talk about the fight.
Yeah.
Uh, man, this is, this is the kind of stuff I'm talking about.
Uh, Oh yeah.
I lost cause I didn't train.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I didn't lose.
Have you watched the video?
Why do you even watch this show?
Like if you're actually, if you're going to take everything I do and say in the worst
possible way, you must hate me.
Right.
Cause everything I do is awful.
Um, okay.
Stop.
Yeah.
So let's talk.
So let's talk about the fight.
Uh, first of all, I want to say massive respect to Dennis.
Yeah.
He did way better than I expected.
Dan.
Dan, did you watch it?
Have you watched the video?
No, I haven't seen it yet.
You haven't seen it.
No, you should watch.
It's really good.
A Dennis put up a way, way better fight than I expected.
And B it's a really good video.
Yeah.
The, the, the, like the, the training and the behind the scenes, uh, you guys, I, I'm
not going to spoil everything, but Dennis put some serious thought and energy into both
giving himself his best chance possible and sabotaging me in the most underhanded ways
possible.
So funny.
I heard about that without me realizing.
So funny.
Not at all.
Um, however, I wasn't super thrilled with how the rules of the phone, the format of
the fight played out.
Yeah.
Um, I would say that a lot of people were confused about the scoring.
So for one thing, I will say that the scoring was not actually as abhorrent as it appeared
to be in the video.
It, the way, the way that it works and Dennis only flashed up like the scoring system for
a second before taking it away, which I guess kind of makes sense in keeping the videos
pacing moving quickly, but might not make sense in terms of people understanding what
they're watching.
The way the scoring worked was that a strike to the body, to the front or the side, I think
is one point with the hands, a strike to the body, front or side with the legs is two points.
Um, a take down to getting the other opponent's shoulders on the ground.
That's two points.
And then I think it was a spinning, a kick to the head is either three or four and then
a spinning kick to the head is like five or something.
Yeah.
It's a lot.
And the reason for that is not because a spinning kick to the head is actually practical in
a real world fight or flight, I choose fight scenario, but because it is slow.
And so it demonstrates a clear reading of where your opponent will be and a quickness
in your execution that is desirable in this particular form of sparring.
We weren't fighting, we were sparring.
So it's a points-based system and a lot of it's like showing off technical ability and
stuff more than being able to strike very hard or like knock your opponent out.
We also played more like, um, like training or like, uh, like, like kid or teenager rules
in that we didn't allow like Taekwondo mixed martial arts allows takedowns and allows strikes
to the face.
But we played with takedowns, but without strikes to the face.
Yeah.
Side and top of head were allowed, I believe.
You can kick to the head, but you were not allowed to strike with your hands to the head
at all.
Okay.
Okay.
So what happened, there were some definite like referee, I wish the call had gone a different
way moments.
Uh, there's, there's this part where I clearly catch his leg and throw him on the ground
and he gets two points for, for, for the kick that never actually hit me.
That was a little frustrating.
Uh, I also, okay, Dennis, this is going to be a controversial take.
I don't think he deserved the points he got for that head kick.
That was not a kick.
Even in the footage, it looks like he like moved my head with his leg.
But if you go back and watch slowly, I'm actually moving and his leg grazes my head.
I was going to say, cause in person it seemed less legit than when I watched it in video
and in video because the camera's on the other side of the room, it seemed more legit.
I think, I think Dennis being the editor of the video might've picked the most favorable
angle for that kick to the head.
Um, however, that wasn't the biggest problem.
All right.
I, okay.
I actually, you know what, I, I'm talking about it a lot.
What did you think?
Uh, sorry, once I got to send this message, Oh, I'm asking about a technical thing.
Um, I was a little annoyed by a few things.
Justin, Justin, how it was, the fight was very fun to watch.
The event was very entertaining to be at.
I had fun.
The video was very fun to watch.
Something that is mentioned in the video, like multiple times, but was like painful
in person.
Like it was definitely covered in the video.
It was covered enough.
It didn't need to be covered more, but the breaks between rounds were actually crazy.
Like the breaks between rounds were longer than the rounds were.
Um, and I know Linus actually defends Dennis on this cause Linus is like, I was tired too.
But like none of this made it into the video, but there's, I guarantee there's footage of
me just like yelling at Dennis to start fighting and I'm on Dennis's side.
And there's, there's one part when the, when the ref starts counting for him to like get
up because, or he'd be de queued if he got to, I think it was like 10, which is a long
time to count for, but he should have been, he should have started that counting way earlier
because he'd let him sit there for like, oh, maybe it was less than this.
It felt like 30 seconds.
Like on the ground.
Yeah.
Like not like standing, like sitting on the ground.
Yeah.
And like this is, this is not necessarily, I might've said it wrong.
This is not time between rounds.
This was after a stoppage during a round where they're just resetting to go again because
like someone went out of the circle or a pointless scored or whatever.
So Dennis's cardio is even worse than it shows in the video by a lot, a lot like you didn't,
you didn't see a huge portion of the stoppages where we're all just standing there waiting
for Dennis.
And then he comes out of those stoppages, just flying all over the place.
Tons of energy.
I had forgotten about this after he scored some point, he does a cartwheel, like he's
totally into it.
And then there's a stoppage and he's like, nope, yeah, a hundred percent.
Which I mean, with the amount of cardio that he has and how tired that he was, the ability
to pull it together and push through the tiredness and do some of the stuff that he did good.
One of the other things though, is that as he got tired and this happens as you get tired,
your hands start to kind of droop and any of your trainers are going to yell at you
for them to come back up.
But he didn't exactly have a corner man.
So his hands are drooping, hands are drooping, hands are drooping, hands are drooping.
By the end of the fight, my biggest problem is that a combination of Dennis's tiredness
and the format of the fight led to Dennis basically fighting like this, which again,
you can, you can really only score points here, here and here.
That doesn't count, right?
So if he's standing like this and the rules are that you have to get a clean hit, I pretty
much had nothing to strike at.
The only place is middle.
So I, he, he said, what did he say, coward move or something like that?
Because I kept going for leg grabs and takedowns.
He was like, yeah, leg pulls are a coward move or something like that, which is weird
because you're volunteering to receive a strike.
But whatever.
Um, and, and, and he's, but he was standing like this with his arms in front of his body
when what I wanted to do was just punch him in the face then because his hands are down.
Which is what a lot of people's reaction is going to be.
But that chicken move, he called it a chicken move.
Chicken move.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, but that, that would be against the rules because you're not allowed to strike to the
face.
Both of us, just like the adrenaline was flowing and got demerits, actually, we lost points
for striking the other one in the face at some point or another with, with our hands.
But I think that, um, I think that I could have maintained my guard a fair bit better.
And so, so then it's actually already challenged me to a rematch.
And I, it needs to be way further out.
I have accepted.
Oh, a hundred percent.
Yeah.
I would like, I would like some time to, to train a little bit.
I think that my cardio could be better.
I was tired.
I was tired too.
I didn't want to show it because the last thing you want to do is show your opponent
you're tired, but I was tired and I was in a lot of pain.
Um, me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I, I sustained a knee injury during the fight that was, uh, I mean, it's not Dennis's fault.
He didn't do anything illegal or anything like that, but I, I grabbed his leg, lifted
his real body, weird, like hopping, jumping kick thing.
It was really odd.
Yeah.
And then you happened to grab and pull and you kind of pulled because he was like off
the ground when you pulled, which was weird.
He kind of flew at you and then landed on your knee.
Yeah.
So I was really tired and I was in a lot of pain.
Um, I want to get my knee like real good.
I want to get my cardio better and I want to get my flexibility better.
I was having a really hard time kicking high.
Um, he edited this out of the video, but I was really tired that day and I was really
sore.
And I had played badminton the night before for two hours.
And I had trained, uh, uh, either the day before that or were two days before that.
And I hadn't fully recovered when I played badminton that night.
So I was, I was walking into the place and I didn't show it.
I didn't show it to Dennis.
So I recorded all of this to other like camera operators.
So he would only see it when he was editing the footage, but I was like, like not sure
if I was going to be able to kick it head level when I was going into it.
I think, I think there should be rule changes if you guys fight again.
So that's the, that's the thing.
I want some more time to work on my flexibility and here are the conditions of my rematch.
I want three minute rounds.
Yeah.
We only did one minute rounds, which is like three one minute rounds.
The fact that, yeah, the fact that he couldn't get through a one minute round was ridiculous.
And the first round was not one minute.
There's no way.
Oh really?
The first round was way shorter.
Oh, I was just like, I was just like, it felt like the next two might've been longer than
a minute.
So maybe it made up for it in the, in the overall duration, but the first round was
really short.
I want delay of match penalties.
Yes.
Clearly set out.
And the timer needs to start like immediately.
Yes.
Clearly set out.
And punching to the head and face is allowed.
You're okay with a broken nose?
I mean, if it happens, it happens.
He's not going to hit me.
I'm just saying.
He's not going to hit me.
Only face?
Only face.
Yeah.
Sorry.
What?
Headshots only.
Headshots only.
No, because then you just go like this and just kick.
It just becomes like, it's the same problem.
You have to have a reason to bring your hands down and you have to have a reason to bring
your hands up.
Otherwise there's nothing to strike at.
That's actually something I was going to mention.
Maybe this gets solved with face punches being allowed, but I was going to say, if a kick
gets blocked to the side by an arm that did not have to move in order to cause the block,
I think it should count as points.
Oh, I see what you mean.
No, I don't think you'd be able to do that because you can keep your, like, you can feel
that they're probably not going for a high strike and you can keep your hands low.
Like that's totally legit.
But you'd still move it.
Like some of the blocks, he literally does nothing.
I know.
Yeah.
Yeah, I know.
It's going to be intentional and even if your arm is already low, there's going to be an
intentional thing to try to block a kick and there's just nothing.
It just didn't count.
Trevor W in float plane says, I think I'm behind, but holy, those were only one minute
rounds.
Yeah.
Like it was ridiculous to watch the, the, the time, not between rounds, but during the
round, the time during the stoppages was longer than the round for, I believe round two and
three.
Yeah.
Probably like it was okay.
There are okay.
There, there I'd be willing to be flexible if he wants to do two minute rounds.
I three is like pretty long considering his cardio, considering making that we're making
a video too.
Like we've got to show everything, but not, but also edit it, you know, like it's, it's
going to end up pretty long.
Would you guys be willing to stream it and set a date?
Maybe.
Yeah.
Cause like it should be, I think it should be an event.
I'd also be, I would also be open to instead of like doing face strikes, we could do side
of the head and top of the head or something like that, but you should be able to punch.
You must be able to get a point on the upper body with your hands because otherwise think
about it.
What on earth can you do against someone who just comes at you like this and it's just
like kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick.
Like there's nothing to do other than grab their leg and throw them on the ground.
Yeah.
Which is what he's doing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I, I, I played, I played the game the way it had to be played, but that was not the
way I've wanted to play it.
I wanted to...
In Dennis's defense with the list of rules that existed, he played the game the way he
should have done.
He did.
And he did really well.
He did.
All things considered.
No, I, I expected him to have about that level of cardio.
I did not expect him to be as proficient as he was.
Yeah.
Especially looking at, um, I watched on, there's a float plane exclusive with some of his earlier
fight training.
He clearly had a lot of improvement over a relatively short period of time.
That'll happen if you have training and you're remembering and you're exactly.
I just, what just happened?
Why did this start doing that?
I got it.
That's weird.
Um, but yeah, I was very impressed with Dennis to be completely honest.
Um, yeah, that's about it.
Yeah.
He did well.
So that's my, that's my conditions.
That's my conditions for the rematch.
Someone said LTX, you know, do it at LTX.
You know, Dennis actually suggested LTX and I said no, because I thought there was just
LTX is so busy.
There's so much going on.
Yeah.
And the last thing I want is, okay.
So let's say, let's say my nose does get broken.
It would have to be the end.
Or I aggravate my knee injury again.
Yeah.
But we're both going to be exhausted from doing LTX, especially me.
That's true.
That's true.
So like, yeah.
Yeah.
I get it.
But also, okay.
Sorry.
Something that someone else mentioned.
Why?
Okay.
By below the belt, I don't mean crotch, but why is there nothing below the belt?
Um, leg strikes are a thing.
Yeah.
It's a thing, but it's also a thing that is very likely to cause injury.
Okay.
I mean, I get it.
Um, the, the, the martial art that I trained did allow leg sweeps, but only like a spinning
leg sweep.
So it had, it was kind of, kind of like how you get a lot of points for a spinning head
kick.
It's slow.
It's slow.
And, and, and it makes you extremely vulnerable because if you go down, sorry.
If you go down like this, you put your leg out, you're exposing the top of your head
and we also allowed, we allowed.
So in the, in the training that I had in the, uh, the sport that I did, uh, our sparring
allowed a back fist to the top of the head.
That was the way to make the head count for something.
Uh, but do something like that too.
Like it doesn't, yes.
The, the head points that we're trying to get is not because we want them to like get
hurt, just destroy each other's skulls.
You just need to be able to score points there.
So if the whole thing was back of fist instead of like direct contact, that would be good.
Like it just, yeah.
I just had so many opportunities to punch him.
So I was like, I just wanted to, there needs to be some way to make you think about where
your arms are and incentivize needing to hold your arms up.
Um, yeah.
Like Lance M asked, uh, was the fight with Dennis cathartic?
Um, I think that's a great, that's a good question.
It was fun.
Yeah.
It was fun.
Yeah.
The knee injury that you guys were like into it and enjoying it.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, I actually, I had a blast.
Like I haven't done, I haven't done this in 20 years.
Like I, and I would do like little tiny tournaments and stuff like if I was a teenager, right?
Like, you know, kid level tournaments.
Uh, but I haven't, I haven't sparred since then.
So yeah, it was, yeah.
It was fun.
I don't know.
So I mentioned Luke and Linus versus everyone else.
Do you have any idea how many people work here now?
Yes.
It's like an army.
They could just dog pile on top of us and we wouldn't be able to move.
Yeah.
And some of them are like quite large and proficient.
Yeah.
Like, no.
Yeah, that would be, that would be, um, probably not even that entertaining to watch.
Hey, have you seen the theme for the Christmas party this year?
No.
It's pretty awesome.
If I do say so myself, Yvonne and I worked on it together.
Little plane has like an idea for, uh, for our own sort of thing.
Oh really?
Yeah.
Um, so this is it, uh, everyone gets, uh, there are, I believe, yeah, there are 10 tables
slash teams, uh, and because it is our 10 year anniversary, every team gets a theme
that is one of the anniversary materials.
Okay.
So the teams are paper, cotton, leather, fruit, slash flowers, wood, candy slash.
Iron wool slash copper bronze willows slash pottery and tin slash aluminum.
So you will be as, as usual, uh, asked to coordinate with your team to represent your
theme.
And as usual, you don't have to participate, but everybody does.
Dan you've done a Christmas party now, right?
That's right.
Just the one, right?
Yeah.
And would you recommend participating at the Christmas party?
Fun is mandatory.
Oh yeah.
No, you gotta participate.
You should.
It's, it's part of it.
It's good.
You gotta go nuts.
It's a hoot.
Yeah.
Uh, Gabriel says you guys always talk about them, but vaguely.
Yeah.
The reason for that is that it's an internal thing.
Yeah.
We like to, yeah, we like to, um, I, I don't know, I guess I've never really asked anyone
about it, but I want to maintain some, uh, separation.
Like this is not about, this is our thing.
We're not putting on a performance.
This is not about public relations.
This is not about anything.
This is a chance for us to have fun with each other and make it not about making videos
for, for once, you know, like everything else we do is like, Oh, but it's content, you know,
is it content?
It's content.
No, no.
Oh my God.
No content.
Just Christmas party.
You know?
So, um, that's, that's why it's, it's, it's not something that we have contentized.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's fun though.
It's fun.
That's cool though.
That makes sense for a theme.
Yeah.
That's cool.
I'm excited.
Yeah.
10 years.
It's been a long time.
10 years.
Yeah.
It's wild.
I was thinking the other day.
I think it's 12 for us or something.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's just ridiculous.
It's creeping on half the amount of time we've been alive.
I know.
Right.
It'll get there eventually.
Maybe.
Yeah.
I think Yvonne and I crossed that threshold very recently.
Yeah.
We've been together for half of our alive time.
And when you consider how little you remember of the beginning of your alive time, like
our actual, like, like part that we know of, it's like most of it, it's like, what did
it, you know, what was life like when, and I, you know, didn't have you there.
I don't, I don't know anymore.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's wild.
It's interesting.
Fly a fan out for the Christmas party.
No.
It's literally the point is to not do that.
It's really nice having like the day to just not be on if you don't want to be.
Like the only day.
It is.
There's it's yeah.
Having a super private is super nice.
Yeah.
It's good.
Yeah.
Deal with it.
Yeah.
Uh, should we do some merch messages?
I think that's it for the main topics, but we have a ton of merch messages to talk to
you guys about.
I have a lot that are potential.
You can have a look at those.
If you have fans.
I can start going through those.
Yeah, for sure.
All of them are just for Linus anyways.
Want to read us some curated ones?
Hit me.
Sure.
Uh, let's see.
Ben asks, hello Linus.
With the rise of power consumption of computers, I have hit an issue in the USA where I cannot
run four computers on the same room.
Do you have any suggestions for people who are stuck with a 15 amp breaker currently
I have to run an extension cord, uh, also run the GPU for Plex.
That is a spectacularly first world problem.
Just saying.
Um, so, you know, good for you having four computers.
No, no, I don't have another solution.
I mean, there's, I could suggest stuff that might be like super illegal.
Like you could, you could at your breaker, um, combine that circuit and run it at two
40 volt.
That would give you some more, that would give you some more power.
That's like really stupid though.
Don't do that because you could just like fry other things that you plug into those
outlets.
Pretty sweet.
Cause like a computer around two 40 volt cause switching modern switching power supplies
and all that.
Um, so yeah, you could do that.
Don't do that.
Um, you could, uh, let's see, man, you could, oh, you could buy all new computers that are
more efficient.
Don't, don't do that.
That's stupid.
Um, you could have an electrician come in and install new wiring with new circuits in
part of the room.
That's expensive.
I'm sure you thought of that and that's a bad solution or, or you could run an extension
cord, which is what you're doing now.
Okay.
For your consciousness though, there may actually be nearby circuits that you could tap into.
So if there's a, if there's a room on the other side of the wall, for example, again,
this might not be too code either, but you could probably find an electrician buddy who
might be willing to do it and it wouldn't be dangerous to take that outlet, open up
the wall on both sides, turn it around, patch up the wall, and then you'd at least have
one outlet in the room that was on a circuit that was like intended for another room.
So it's probably, probably on a separate circuit.
Um, and that would be, yeah, that would be the way that I would probably say is the safest,
most legit way to do that.
We have another one here from Matthew B. Limus, in ancient history land shows you were often
wearing a cad pat cross-cut.
Did you serve any armed forces or did you get such a really cold jacket?
It was a weird gift from my parents.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know what happened to that jacket.
I'd have no idea either, and I definitely don't have it.
It's not me.
Um, but that jacket got worn by like everyone.
Yeah.
At some point or another, we were quite cold in the garage at the beginning of the company.
We had a community jacket.
Yeah.
We've come pretty far.
Sorry, floodplain.
Whoops.
What?
Oh, my mic was muted.
Oh.
I'm out of practice.
Oh, they asked about the, the old like mil-spec jacket I used to wear with like, um, uh, with
camo on it.
Yeah.
No, no, no.
What was, oh, people asking, what was the question?
Uh, the question, do you want to say it again?
Yeah.
Uh, Linus used to wear a cad pat parka.
Um, Matthew was wondering if he was in the armed forces or just perpetually cold.
Cad pat is in Canadian pattern, Canadian camouflage.
Oh, okay.
I believe, I'm pretty sure, CAD, C A D P A T, right?
Cad pat.
Pad.
Yes.
Pat.
Yeah.
Yes.
Next one.
Uh, sure.
This is from anonymous.
Hi Linus.
Do you have any plans to make a video about the massive backpack shipment coming in and
how the creator warehouse is turning that around?
Um, they would be interested to see how you master such a logistical challenge.
I don't.
Uh, the creator warehouse warehouse is actually run by the former logistics manager for NCIX.
And as far as I can tell, half of what he does is black magic.
I don't understand it.
So I can't be involved in everything.
And if it's running smoothly and they do ship a lot of orders per day, like when they have
the stuff in stock, it goes, uh, I, I don't ask questions.
I, good.
You know?
Thanks.
Uh, Josh M asks, been a while since I've been able to watch the show live when doing your
smart home stuff was, uh, savant ever a thought I'm an installer for them.
And while highly proprietary, they seem to be leading the market.
Did you, uh, did you like consider a bunch of different stuff or were you just sent things
to put in your walls?
Kind of thing?
No, I did consider a lot of different stuff.
No savant is not something that I looked into.
I mean, that's the issue though is there's like.
A lot.
So it's shocking.
Like you look at how many weird proprietary closed ecosystems there are for smart home
stuff and how many people do you know that have smart anything in their houses and you
kind of go everything I know about minimum order quantities for products and how much
it costs to engineer a product and the math just doesn't make sense.
I've thought about this before.
I have a weird theory on it.
It'd be just completely out to lunch, but do you know how the thing where like every
Vegas hotel, the, the company that owns the hotel also owns the companies that supply
all the clocks and the sheets and the cleaning supplies and the deodorant or not deodorant
put soap and all that kind of stuff.
I feel like it's a similar thing.
I feel like contractor construction companies that are building like high rises that have
horrible automation and stuff spin up these things.
I don't know.
I honestly don't know, but I don't understand how the math works.
Yeah.
Cause it's, it's crazy.
There's so many of these companies and I know very few people that have anything installed
at all.
And usually when they do, it's very simple.
It doesn't have like just switches everywhere.
Yeah.
I don't get it.
Yeah.
You pay extra to not have it be smart.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Let's move on here.
We've got another one from anonymous question for Luke about the yard podcast.
Who is your favorite member and or favorite guests they have had on the show?
I have no idea what this is.
Wow.
Um, I didn't think we'd have a question about another podcast on our podcast.
Um, we're getting pretty meta.
I like slime.
He's, he's how I found the show and I find him entertained.
They're all really good though.
They're entertaining.
I like slime too.
It's like goopy.
Slime likes you.
Oh, well that just got really awkward.
It's a hangout on a barn sometime or something.
Don't worry about it.
A barn?
Yeah.
Don't worry about it.
That's fine.
Okay.
Next question.
Cool.
Hey, sure.
Is this a person?
Yeah.
I hope so.
Don't worry about it.
Do you think USB could ever get in the, uh, get to the point where it would be the standard
used to connect all components inside a PC?
No.
Yeah.
This is like an XKCD thing.
You know, another standard.
It's just not made for that.
It's, uh, it's, what's great about USB is it's hot pluggable and it's like super backwards
and forwards compatible, but that's not necessarily what you want for plugging in, uh, uh, an
RGB header on your, uh, you know, light strip.
So no, it's, it's never going to be everything.
Yeah.
There's different standards for different things, right?
Tommy W asks, hi Linus, do you have any advice on building a team for a small startup?
I feel like I'm the wrong person to ask because my hiring strategy was to just hire people
I liked and then hire people that they knew, honestly, like I, I do know how to hire, but
I'm not methodical about it.
I'm, I'm kind of scattershot.
I'll ask weird questions during an interview and like if I get a good vibe, then I'll go
for it.
You know, I, there's, there's really way more structured ways to do HR that I, I just, I
haven't studied, I haven't practiced, I, I'm not qualified to give advice on.
I mean, I can say that you want to pick a team that you are okay being stuck in a small
room with eight hours a day, five days a week at minimum, right?
That that is actually really important.
So I was good at that part, but there's a lot of, uh, there's a lot of stuff that I'm
not that great at.
AJ points out in chat, I barely had an interview.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah.
Like what do we know?
I do a lot.
I do a lot now, but I don't think we count as a startup anymore.
So yeah.
Alex B asks, getting a screwdriver today and saving for the backpack, which two fantastic
launches in the last couple of months, which product are you most proud of the screwdriver
or the backpack?
That's like asking me which of my children I love more, my son or Luke.
There's no way, there's no way I'm going to pick one.
I love both of them equally.
They were both a ton of work.
I hope to have many years with both of them.
Am I talking about Luke and my son?
Am I talking about the screwdriver and the backpack?
We don't know.
Okay.
Which one of your kids had a bitter upbringing then was a screwdriver easier to raise or
was the backpack easier to raise?
Well the screwdriver has, was real challenging, uh, pre birth, but the backpack is proving
itself to be a bit of a, uh, a post birth, um, uh, uh, uh, a difficult one to deal with.
So yeah.
Yeah.
Difficult child.
All right.
Uh, Wayne asks, uh, other than USB cables, LTT is planning to make, what other cables
would you like to make?
HDMI, DisplayPort, Cat5e, Cat6, coaxial for God knows what.
I don't think we're going to get into network cables.
That's just such a, that's, that's, that's a deep, deep, deep rabbit hole.
I could absolutely see us doing HDMI, DisplayPort, coax I think is pretty unlikely, but it kind
of depends on how USB and display cables go.
I think our ideal world would be that with our cable management product plus our cables,
you'd have everything you need for your PC set up.
I think USB and display is probably enough to be completely honest.
Power.
We can do power.
I want SDI cables.
I can't find one on the market that works for me.
Oh really?
Well, what's your problem?
They're not flexible or 4k enough.
Oh, okay.
So you want them to be a little flexible and 4k.
Yep.
So it's not like a coaxial stable that is good for long-term camera use, right?
Oh, I mean, yeah, we could look into it.
I think we were, and it was just extremely expensive.
Yeah.
Oh, well, yeah.
Well, there's your problem then.
That makes sense.
Uh, okay.
Moving on.
Let's see.
We've got a one from Michael here.
Do you have another recommendation other than the, uh, ring?
I don't want to say it wrong now.
I'm scared.
Uh, have you tried circular?
I haven't.
I don't have another recommendation.
Like that's the, that's the really frustrating thing about this is aside from them being
really difficult to deal with it, I really liked the product.
Yeah.
Sorry.
Um, and like for me, honestly, the whole health tracking thing is very take it or leave it.
I, I have been, I've been blessed.
I've been very lucky to not really have to worry about tracking my blood oxygen level
or anything like that.
Like I just kind of, I eat when I'm hungry, I, I sort of move around more when I feel
like I'm getting a spare tire.
I just, I kind of do what my body tells me to do.
Uh, so I don't need a ring to tell me to do any of that.
Um, but I just, I just kind of liked it.
It was just kind of numbers for geeks for me.
So I'm probably not going to go actively pursuing an alternative to it because the only reason
I ever used it in the first place was cause they sent me one for free and I figured I
had better try this if we're going to do a sponsored video on it and it's like a health
product.
So I probably just won't do anything.
I mean, same sort of vein.
You're not wearing your watch today.
No, I forgot to put on my watch this morning.
I do have that withings scan watch and it's like cool I guess.
Cause I kind of have like a reverse merch message now.
Oh you do?
Your, your watch that you're wearing now like isn't a pebble.
Uh, and so Shank would like to ask you why you're not wearing the pebble that he, uh,
this is the problem with gifts, but it's also there.
Oh, you got it on the backpack.
That's awesome.
I just wanted a friendly rib you about it.
I will.
That'd be fun.
I will daily drive it again.
I will give it, I will give it a shot.
I will give it a shot, but I appreciate the gift and for me it's more about like remembering
the pebble, uh, the, the one good smartwatch I ever owned.
The pebble time.
Great.
I'm sure he'd be happy to hear that.
Uh, another one from anonymous.
Would LMG ever consider absorbing a content creator, assuming it was a mutually beneficial?
Um, the brand didn't tread on existing content, that sort of thing.
Um, we sort of have really with Horst, right?
No, no.
He was working for like, um, he was doing like local like community video for a big
company.
I guess he's not.
Yeah.
It wasn't his channel.
Yeah, no, no.
Well, he is now.
Yeah.
Wasn't.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, what do you think?
What should we do?
Should we go on a big like acquisition spree?
I think in a lot of channels, situations, it isn't the right move.
Um, I think if it was the right move that we would do it, I know we've technically tried
in the past.
Um, and then it was decided mutually that it wasn't the right move.
Yeah.
I mean, it can be the right move.
I ran into both mythical and Smosh down at creator summit and they both seem okay to
be doing great.
Yeah.
Sounds good.
But I think those situations will be rare and they found one, which is fantastic.
Um, but yeah, situations are rare.
Never say never, but I, I mean, I don't, um, a big part of what makes a YouTube channel
work is the team that has made it work.
And so I feel like unless you're acquiring the talent, um, you better have a really solid
plan for how you're going to maintain the soul of that media property because it isn't
just a media property, but then there are exceptions.
Now that the business is, uh, is maturing, you're seeing some channels that really were
started just as business endeavors and are structured more like traditional media companies.
And so yeah, there could be situations where it might make sense.
With that said, I think our expertise is building YouTube channels and brands.
So in there'll always be the question every time of could we just build it ourselves?
And if we could, then should we do that instead?
And if we can't, then is this such a unicorn that we can, like, can we even afford something
that's so amazing that we couldn't have done it?
And so the answer to those, the answer, the answer to the questions have to be, yes, I
can afford it.
And no, we couldn't build it.
That seems like a small overlapping Venn diagram circle, you know?
Okay.
We've got a special message here from Jeff.
He wanted to give a happy birthday to his wife, Sarah Blankenship.
She's one of the rare and amazing human females that love LDT, the entire crew, including
myself, apparently.
And, uh, yeah, I've just wondered if you guys could wish her a happy birthday.
Yeah.
Happy birthday, Sarah.
So that's always a fun one.
Another one from Samuel.
Uh, what is the reasoning why I GPUs are not benchmarked during CPU reviews?
When you talk about ultra budget computers using an I GPU can be a good idea, but it's
hard to tell which ones are good or not.
Yeah, that's a good question.
I would say that with Ryzen 7,000, the reason we didn't really talk about it was because
if you're spending that kind of money on a CPU, the I GPU is a coprocessor.
It's for, uh, you know, hardware or video encoding or something like that.
It's for whatever features you might take advantage of on that I GPU.
I don't realistically expect you to game on it in the longer term because you just bought
DDR five memory, a 250 to $500 motherboard and like a 300 plus dollar CPU.
Like what are you doing?
If you're, if you're spending, if you're spending that kind of money and you don't have a graphics
card, you did it wrong.
You didn't build a balanced machine.
So from my point of view, it's kind of irrelevant in the context of that product.
But if we were reviewing something that is like, you know, $139 chip that could very
well go in a $50 board and use onboard graphics for an extended period of time, then it would
absolutely be something that we would look at more closely.
Okay.
Got another one here from anonymous.
Do you think Google is simply not interested in maintaining a product that doesn't print
money and have billions of users the way search Android and YouTube do?
Well, yeah.
I mean, we see that in any large company, right?
Like there's the whole innovators dilemma thing where it's really, really hard as an
established company to start up new business endeavors because they are inherently not
worth the time and attention that they require.
So that's why acquisitions are so common for as companies get larger and larger and larger
because it doesn't, you can't never innovate because then eventually someone will come
and eat your lunch and you can't innovate because it's a waste of time and money to
innovate.
You know what I mean?
So yeah, obviously they're, they're looking for the next big home run, right?
Because nothing else is even going to register.
It's like a million dollar business to us, right?
Like a million dollar product idea to us.
So that's, you talk in terms of like yearly revenue.
That's a big deal, right?
Million dollars is a lot of money.
To Google, rounding error, irrelevant, right?
So they're operating at this just completely, utterly different scale, right?
And honestly, I feel like I don't have the background to really speak to the kinds of
decision making processes that a company like that would go through.
At that scale.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Some of the stuff is just bizarre though.
Yeah, for sure.
What is it like meat and other more different meat, new and how that went through is astonishing.
Like I just, and meanwhile, the meat teams, you know, watching project cancellations are
looking at it going, which me, uh, yeah, yep.
I just want them to build one final video conferencing platform called beyond meat.
You know how I timed it for when he was drinking.
That was on purpose.
Almost got him.
He's mauled.
He got it.
He got it.
He didn't spit it all over the laptop.
It's his laptop too.
Jeez.
Oh man.
This one's from Richard.
Uh, you have the best 4k HDR TVs, sound systems and PC hardware.
Do you think having a excess to the best tech for so long has skewed your idea of what an
average person wants in terms of tech, uh, your viewers, the tech, your crowd, but I
bet most people won't notice FPS past 128 Hertz.
I think it's a temporal problem, right?
So yes.
Um, I have cool stuff and whatever.
And so does that, does that change what people might want or might aspire to, or does that,
that changed my perception of what people might want to aspire to?
Um, no, I don't think so.
I think it just means that I'm there a little bit earlier, right?
Like we've seen this throughout the entire existence of modern electronics and technology
is that when it comes, it comes for a select few, whether it starts out in the enterprise
or starts out as a like, okay, smartphones are a perfect example.
It starts out as this niche thing for the Uber wealthy.
Like, um, I forget who it is.
Someone here, uh, knows someone.
I think it might be James who knows like intimately knows a, um, like a S a home automation installer.
And he was telling me about the kind of stuff that, that like the, the Uber wealthy have
in their homes.
Like we're talking motorized TV mounts where it like goes back and hides in a, in a completely
invisible wall panel.
And then it comes out and angles out this way so that they can watch TV while they're
in the kitchen.
And it's like specifically for that or like subwoofers that are under the ground so that
they are, won't be visible and they actually shake the ground by the pool side so you can
like really get into your party vibe or like whatever it is.
This stuff exists now has existed for 10 or 20 years, right?
But you don't have it.
You don't even aspire to it.
And yet even while mounting a TV was unheard of 10, 15 years ago, that wasn't mainstream,
right?
Yeah.
Well, I think now it's just normal.
Well, yeah, you just want my new TV.
I think it's almost irrelevant and that might be surprising.
But what I would say is that as long as you try to keep yourself true to explaining how
good or cool something is and you point out the price points, that's for the other people
to decide.
But my point is that the price point will come.
So what LTT has really always been is really cool cutting edge stuff.
And that might not be today for everybody, but it will come eventually.
No matter what game it is, no matter what, you know, rip in tier fast CPU or GPU it is,
someday it will be cheap.
Every experience will eventually come.
And so I think that we do get a lot of criticism for not talking about low end hardware.
And I think a big part of that has been that I've never been a fan of low end hardware.
I want high end hardware.
I'll take used high end hardware.
Absolutely.
I totally understand.
Not everybody has the budget for brand new high end hardware.
Been there.
But that doesn't mean you shouldn't buy good stuff.
Don't buy bad stuff.
And that also doesn't mean that you should get the highest end stuff either.
Like there's, there's a, there's a sweet spot.
It's all about the sweet spot.
I guess that's what I'm trying to say.
So yeah, I do think there are things a lot of people won't notice, but I also think that
it's sort of my job to figure out what you will notice and what you should direct your
resources toward.
Also up to the crowd to decide if they will notice it or not.
Like the example you gave of noticing FPS past 120 Hertz.
Okay.
So first of all, FPS and refresh rate are not equivalent.
There are benefits to higher frame rates other than just making sure that you've got whatever
matches your monitor, because it decreases the latency of your, of your inputs, right?
So yes, most people won't notice a refresh rate with an appropriately high frame rate
past about 120 Hertz, but we've made that video and we've also made videos where we
talk about these higher refresh rates monitors and how they, they do feel smoother and they
do feel better.
And if you could have one for a reasonable price or for a small uplift over one that
isn't Uber high refresh rate, well then you might as well go for it.
It's just a matter of when that is going to intersect with so that you've got like the
desirability of it and the cost of it.
Where did those lines meet for you?
Right?
It's all personal.
All we can talk about is what it is and it's up to you to determine if it has a value for
you.
Okay.
I've got another one here from Emmanuel.
Hey Linus, has inflation and the current negative market affected LTT in any way?
Also happy to get my hand, happy to finally get my hands on one of the LTT screwdrivers.
Has it gotten easier to hire devs?
Hiring devs is still a nightmare.
I mean, we're also in Vancouver.
Yeah.
Which doesn't help.
Yeah.
So like, not really, to be honest.
Cause I, I mean, we haven't had any layoffs or anything like that, but there have been
industry layoffs.
So like, I've, yeah, I'm like, we're not, by the way, we're fine.
I've had a lot of people late applying, like the post is still up on the website cause
we're like kind of still interested in collecting resumes.
But I'll see, this is actually kind of interesting, I'll see like so-and-so company lays off like
some huge percentage of their workforce.
And then our resume intake goes like, and it's okay, interesting.
But it hasn't become easier.
The impact on us would be from external sources.
We are pretty well diversified now and a big part of that, hey, thanks for buying that
screwdriver, is you guys.
So much of our funding comes directly from our community that it would be very difficult
for us to reach a position where we could be, we could be crippled by economic conditions
that are outside of our control.
We might see some advertising pullback.
I don't know that it's been significant yet, but we could see something like that.
We might see AdSense dip, I don't know, but you know, okay, let's say they fall by 30%
each or something like that.
We'd still survive.
We're good.
We're built to last.
Okay, from Richard, on the subject of companies killing services slash products, is there
anything you wish stuck around iMesh Nexus devices?
What on earth is a Nexus device?
That's what pixels were.
It was cheaper pixels.
It was like cheap, crappy Android phones and tablets, except they weren't that crappy because
Google was subsidizing them.
They were awesome.
Yeah.
They were like prime time.
But they were priced like cheap, crappy Google, like Android.
That's great.
Yeah.
They were kind of great.
Yeah.
I mean, Nexus device is definitely a good one.
I wish Oculus was still Oculus.
That would have been cool.
That would have made me cry.
That one hurts a lot, actually.
Right through the heart.
You know what?
I had a GK1.
I always been there from the start.
You know what?
Yeah.
I miss DFI.
Man, they're like LAN party motherboards with the UV reactive slots and stuff.
They were like, there was a short period there where they were like just the shiz when it
came to overclocking and all that.
I'm sad that Case Labs is dunzo because I never made enough money to ever afford a Case
Labs case.
So I never got to experience it and now they're gone and that's just sad.
But for me...
I mean, you did make enough money at some point to afford one, but you got free computers
by then.
Not really when they were alive.
What?
Not in...
They didn't shut down until like two years ago.
What are you talking about?
That was more than two years ago.
No.
Really?
Was it not?
I thought it was closer to like four.
No.
August 2018.
Oh, four years.
You could have afforded a Case Labs case four years ago.
Stop.
Not on my metrics.
Shut up.
Everyone's version of affordability is personal.
Yeah, but you also eat nothing but chicken breast.
Chicken breast is expensive right now, dude.
It wasn't.
Grocery bills are going up.
It wasn't four years ago.
Don't move the goalposts.
They're just giving away budgies in the parking lot.
Nobody wants you to know this, but the budgies in the park are free.
I have dozens of them.
Your food mill's gone to nothing.
You can just take them.
That's a good reference.
I'm so sorry.
Are we even talking about...
Yeah.
Yeah.
What were we talking about?
We were talking about that you are the biggest cheapskate ever.
Yeah, pretty much.
You could have afforded a Case Labs case just fine.
It would not have been wise at that time.
It wouldn't have.
I was saving to buy a place and stuff.
Okay.
Yeah.
So anything is unaffordable if your bar is literally that I am not spending a dollar.
So Case Labs cases are quite premium.
If only I could have had a Kit Kat bar before that.
Yeah, well you could have.
You just like...
It's a watch though.
It's not a need.
Oh my God.
That's very pragmatic.
My case was fine.
I'm with Luke on this.
Yeah.
All right.
Let's move on.
James asked, as a bike rider on the next backpack, could you add reflective panels for increased
visibility?
You know, we wanted to do, we wanted this one to be reflective down here at the very
least.
I forget why we didn't do it.
I think it was like a durability concern because the reflective materials were not particularly
durable and we figured that the solution to that would be that if you really wanted reflective
stuff on it, you can get like reflective iron-on patches and you could just put them on.
I know it's not a perfect answer, but that's the answer.
Here's a suggestion that will probably be a no, but I know there's been talk about a
rain cover.
We are working on it.
What about a reflective one?
It's not a bad idea, but I mean, yeah, the rain cover.
Okay.
Well, hold on, hold on.
I don't want to commit to anything because the rain cover first and foremost needs to
be waterproof.
And if the reflectiveness will cost us anything in terms of waterproofness, I don't want to,
I don't want a water resistant-ish rain cover.
I want it to actually stop water from getting into the bag.
Did you say waterproof?
And nothing is waterproof.
Nothing is ever waterproof, but I want it to be as water resistant as possible.
Rain should not be a problem.
And yeah, that would be, that would be the goal.
That would be the goal.
Okay.
Hey team, FYI, I couldn't post a merch message on your Android while logged in, but I can
as a guest.
The live section didn't come up.
Would you guys try compressors on your mics when you're quiet?
Oh, I think for me- Why is this a curated one?
For me, the main concern is that I get too loud.
So I don't know if our compressor is actually tuned for when I'm too quiet.
I don't remember curating this one.
I did.
Sorry.
You did?
Okay.
So we have a compression stage in our audio chain.
We have both a hardware compressor and then also a software compressor.
The idea is I want to maintain Linus and Luke's dynamic range with being able to prevent any
sort of digital clipping or even analog clipping from that stage there.
It's difficult to keep these guys in check.
The mic position is not always right.
We've got different levels of excitement and it's not a perfect room either.
So we're going to pick up any background noise from our AC and that sort of thing if-
Listen to this guy blaming everyone but himself for our audio challenges.
Yeah.
Well, I'm thinking after today, I was fixing some of those wrinkles.
I was looking at this setup here.
This just needs to go.
We need something else.
I'm going to fix this place and no more go XLRs are going to be mentioned.
This is going to be the best podcast set, live streaming set.
You heard it here.
I swear on Linus's life.
Son.
I don't-
Get it?
Wow.
Get it?
Yeah.
Get it?
Okay.
I'm going to make this good.
That camera's not on anymore but that was very good.
If you guys could have seen that, he was very enthusiastically pointing at the camera.
I just want it to be easy for everybody and not terrible and sound better.
Anyway, yes, I use two types of compressor and I'm still bad at this.
The merch message thing while on Android is a limitation of Shop Pay.
You were logged in and Shop Pay is your default selected option.
So it goes to Shop Pay and by going to Shop Pay, it skips past that page if I remember
correctly.
It's not something we can fix right now because it's not something we can fix at all until
Shopify allows us to.
They are aware of the problem.
I doubt it's like the highest priority thing because they're kind of a really big company
and we're just one of their many partners.
But they know about it and they do seem to care and maybe eventually it'll be fine.
I think maybe checkout extensions in the future will allow us to fix it or something.
I don't know.
It's been a long time since I've had that conversation.
All I know right now is there's not much we can do about it right now or maybe something
recent allowed us to.
I don't know.
Last time we looked into it, we couldn't.
We've been working on the new theme.
The new theme's coming like real soon fast.
So once that's out, maybe we'll look back into those types of things.
This is so sweet.
I just got a message from Patrick Kennedy from Serve the Home.
Sorry for the late note.
Yeah, I'm still working.
Just wanted to say thank you for looking at me like I was a moron for not doing video
on that walk in Taipei.
We just hit 100,000 subscribers.
It's been super fun.
Thanks for the inspiration.
Yeah, you bet, man.
I mean, you were.
Video man.
It's the way.
It's the way.
It's the way.
And they've been killing it over there.
They've been doing a great job.
More?
Do you want more?
I mean, we have more.
We got more.
This one's from Christian.
Hey, guys.
First time message.
I missed the start of the show, so I don't know if you've covered it, but what is your
take on Mr. Who's the Boss video talking about Samsung batteries expanding?
I've been meaning to watch it.
I have no excuse.
I've just been busy this week.
What I've gathered so far from just people tweeting at me about it is that out of all
the phones that he has kicking around, the Samsung ones are the ones that are swelling.
I would really need to see a really big sample size of phones to really determine if it's
a Samsung-specific problem.
You got to understand Samsung also makes the batteries for a huge number of other phone
makers, so unless you're also seeing this pattern in other phones that have Samsung
batteries in them, I don't know that I would read too much into it.
Another thing that I know is that I've seen the way that some YouTubers, I don't know
how Aaron stores his phones, but I've seen the way some YouTubers store their phones,
and it's really bad, like just in a drawer or in boxes in no particular charge state.
It's really bad for them, so leaving them plugged in all the time is bad.
Leaving them not plugged in for extremely long periods of time, also really bad.
These batteries, the way that they're built into these devices are designed for everyday
use.
They're designed to be used every day or at least every few days and not just left in
a particular charge state for long periods of time.
I don't know that I am able to form any kind of opinion on this at this point in time.
Do you know, partially because of that reason, there's emergency sat phones that are designed
to run off of, I think it's AA batteries, but they have some modern ability.
I think you can even get maps and stuff.
Apparently, he has a rack where he stores them, but are they somehow software controlled
so that they're maintained at about 50% charge?
Or are they left charged all the time?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I just would have to know a lot more.
I'm sorry, guys.
I haven't watched the video yet.
Hard to comment when you haven't watched it.
I do intend to watch it because this has absolutely been making the rounds.
Next up, got another one from Jeffrey.
I've been waiting for the Chungus bottle since it was first revealed.
Oh, wait.
Sorry.
There was one last thing I wanted to say.
If you store a lithium battery incorrectly, it will swell.
It's not like Samsung screwed up their batteries.
I can't speak to-
Well, we'll see.
Yeah.
I haven't watched the video.
We'll see.
I've been waiting for the Chungus bottle.
Curious about how YouTube handles retention for videos watched at faster speeds.
I watch most things at one and a half times or faster, and I'm worried it hurts creators.
It does not.
It counts.
If you watch at 2X, the creator gets the full watch time for the runtime of the video, whatever
it is that you watched.
Yeah.
I watched mostly everything at two times.
That's one of my wife's things is she'll be reading comments on a video, and she will
always just let the video play at 2X with the volume down while she just reads comments.
You can just get the Creator Studio app.
You don't have to do it like this.
She's like, oh, every view counts, okay.
This is from Colton.
Luke, when did you begin your path as a software engineer?
At what point in your tenure working with Linus did you decide that that was your future
path, or was it something that you were always working on in the background?
It definitely wasn't while I was working with Linus.
It started- I inspired him.
And I'm not.
With my software development skills.
It's your fault?
Yeah.
He's struggling with HTML.
Were you good at it?
I don't remember.
No.
There's something with HTML.
You probably was trying to, like, bold something, and you were like, okay.
I remember something with HTML, like, really early on.
I don't remember what it was or what it was about.
Yeah, I'm not, by the way.
I lead a team of software developers.
But I became interested in software development really early on because my dad used to talk
to me about it, like, way back in the day.
My dad was A-plus certified, super into computers all the time and stuff, and used to talk to
me about old, like, punch card programming stuff.
I remember he almost tried to, like, scare me away from it at one point, because he wanted
me to, like, be sure that I was actually interested.
And he talked to me about the old type of debugging that they used to have to do back
in the day.
And it used to be brutal, and I had the very good experience of looking into more modern
development at that time and realizing that it wasn't as bad as it used to be when he
had looked into it back in the day.
But yeah, I was interested from a very early age, and I started delving into it in, like,
right at the beginning of high school.
There's a couple other people in my grade that were also interested, so I had some people
to bounce off of, which was cool.
My computer teacher, Mr. Trattel, I believe he's still, I think he's the principal of
a school now.
But he was awesome.
I'm not surprised that his career advanced because he was fantastic.
He's very accommodating to me wanting to push further and drive more.
I got the award for the top grade in computers 12 when I was in grade 10, which was sweet
because he let me, like, I completed the entire curriculum for some computer class in, like,
a couple weeks.
So he let me just take the next one with the rest of that semester, and then I completed
that one.
So he, like, gave me some extra work, and then the next semester we did, like, the same
thing and we just stacked a bunch of courses into other ones, and I ended up doing, like,
he let me, like, build my own computer's curriculum while I was there because he knew I was just
very interested and he wanted to support that, and I really, really deeply appreciated that.
And that's a huge reason why I went down that career path was because I was very particular
about, like, supportive teachers.
I tended to do really well in those classes, and unsupportive teachers I tended to do really
poorly in those classes.
He even, I don't know, I'm turning this into a thing about him, I don't know why, but he
knew there was a bunch of kids in my grade that were really interested in computers and
software development stuff, so if I remember correctly, this story, he went to BCIT himself
for a summer semester and came back and took what he learned there and created a new course
for us, which was 3D game development, and in that semester we learned way more advanced
development stuff than we could have otherwise, we made actual games, and our final project
of the course was to submit a game that had, like, projectile physics and all this type
of stuff going, and he taught us all this stuff, really, really cool, and that, like,
just made me so much more interested and I kept pursuing it and then ended up dropping
it to make YouTube and then ended up picking it up again to make a float plane, and then
I don't know.
There you go.
Did you notice half the float plane chat is staff right now?
I think Tynan's in there, looks like Jake from Labs is in there, I see AJ in there,
Dan, Dan, are you in there?
Yeah, I'm not a mod in there.
You're not a mod, okay, we should probably get that all sorted out.
Message, message.
Don't you guys have, like, other things to do?
I mean, it's almost 10pm, Joe's hanging out.
It's the only way we can find things out about the company, so it's like, this is our weekly
newsletter.
Oh, hey, we're starting this thing called Labs.
Hey, look, we cancelled Labs.
We didn't cancel Labs, we didn't cancel Labs, changing the name.
I didn't know there was a Christmas party, awesome.
Hilarious, alright.
I had a couple of questions from people in float plane chat, though, I was having a look
at it.
I was asked about the Logitech Brio scandal that RandomFrankP posted about.
I have not had a chance to watch the video, but it sounds like it's something pretty sketchy,
so you guys should go check that out, or, I don't know, maybe it's a bad video, probably
isn't a bad video, so yeah, you guys should go check that out.
It comes right on the heels of, I actually had asked for this to be included in the WAN
show doc this week, but it's not here.
It comes on the heels of us finding out Logitech was being kind of sketchy about user reviews
of their cloud gaming device, so what happened after the show was it was found that my positive
review with lots of stars went through, no problem, so it was reviewed and ultimately
was submitted to the site, or was posted on the site, and my more balanced two-star review
was not posted, so whatever curation process was taking place, we demonstrated that more
stars were going through and less stars were not, which really raises a lot of questions
about Logitech's transparency and the way that they curate user reviews on their site,
because they're not really useful if they're just only positive, are they?
Then, then, what happened is all of the reviews were wiped, except for my two-star review
for a bit, then, like the next day, all the reviews were pulled and they formally said,
oh, we're not putting reviews on this page, because this thing isn't even out yet.
Fishy.
Yeah, that doesn't really fix the problem, and you haven't really addressed what you
guys are doing with reviews on other product pages, for example.
One quick thing, just because I think there's some of this happening right now, if you are
staff and you are the staff leg in full plane chat, email support at fullplane.com from
your official work email, that is the only way to do it.
I just used Linus's account.
Oh.
No.
Don't do that.
Yeah.
No, we don't.
It's not actually my account.
It's the name.
We don't use a channel account.
Yeah, yeah.
The name in chat, though, is just Linus, so everyone always thinks it's you, which is
also a problem.
Yeah, I know.
That's very problematic.
Yes.
More merch messages?
Razor apparently also has a competitor to it, so...
What?
I guess that's something.
What?
Yeah.
I don't know, but they're really focused on, like, cellular?
So expensive.
And worse in every way?
Okay, cool.
I like Ars Technica's headline here, Razor is making a streaming focused handheld console
for some reason.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's super legit.
Oh, man.
Yikes.
I like it.
Logitech's video title is spicy.
What is it?
Logitech is lying in all caps to us.
To us?
Whoo!
Whoo!
I gotta watch that.
That's interesting.
Okay, you want another one?
What product has the highest margins on the LTT store so I know what to buy next?
Also, will you have 4XL hoodies, t-shirts, for us bigger folks in the future?
Yes, we will.
We are working on that.
I know it's taking longer than we'd like, but we are working on it.
Now that we've got our big, like, 50,000 t-shirt order of the standard sizes, we can turn our
attention to our extended sizes.
We want to do Husky Boy, Lanky Boy, smaller and bigger.
So that's a goal, I know I've been talking about it a long time, but it's taken us a
long time to get our own shirt lengths going.
They're really good though, I'm really happy with them, but it takes time.
As for what product has the highest margins, you can buy gift cards and then never redeem
them.
Oh, yeah.
Well, that's true.
Genius.
Cut the bump.
If you just want to send a donation, hey, we're more than happy to take it.
And then if you ever change your mind, you can buy something on the store, win-win.
That's fair enough.
Someone in chat said, this might be more for the Asian market.
My family is from Taiwan and they primarily use cellular data, even for home stream and
computers.
And I have heard of that.
Okay.
But like for gaming?
Yeah.
This is a thing.
I've heard of this before.
But like multiplayer gaming?
Yeah.
It's totally a thing.
I mean, are your latency-
Some people even have like cell boosters and stuff and their cell setups, they're just
like better than what we have.
Yeah.
I mean, maybe-
Which makes sense.
Population density, tiny island versus Canada.
Yeah.
I mean, okay.
I'm not into it, but like, maybe that's why Razer is doing it.
I don't know.
I do have the like actual in-location Razer store in Taiwan, stuff like that.
Yeah.
Glad you enjoyed the video Solar Daddy.
Watch the fight video.
Says it's incredible.
Most underrated video this year.
It's good.
Heck yeah.
By the way, there were a couple of things I had intended to reply to last week.
I put them in a notepad doc here.
Captain Said said, are you going to do a 2022 update on how you guys make money?
I was thinking about it.
I felt like it might be a little soon, but it's changed a lot.
It still feels like it's soon, even though it's changed a lot.
Yeah.
But it's changed a lot.
Like it's really different.
So I don't know if people, if I, if the idea of the series is that people know how we make
money right now, they don't fair enough.
And then Nipless Cage said, seriously though, if you want a chance to get on the merge message
list, you have to buy early, but you don't get the deals till the middle of the stream.
I hate it.
That's not true.
It doesn't matter when you buy it.
You're selected based on what the producer decides to curate and all the curated ones
we do do.
A lot of questions that don't get curated might be really good, but we might've answered
them last week.
Yeah.
And so you might just get a text reply and it might show up down here.
So you just got to kind of watch for it.
Sorry.
We're doing our best with it.
Or we get like 40 at the same time.
And I fat finger one of them.
Like one of them or that, which is why we like merge messages so much, because then
if we don't reply to it, at least you get your order in the mail.
Yeah.
Uh, last one, I guess.
Okay.
Yeah.
Let's do it.
Uh, this is from bill hovercraft.com a project startup from LMG like float plane, but instead
of video streaming, it's a cloud gaming service.
Maybe start off with retro or public domain games first, then triple A. How did this get
curated?
No, it wasn't me.
That was me.
Linus.
I'm just messing with you.
They're going to blame me.
I don't want more insanely difficult projects.
I would, I would like some, uh, some, some softballs for the development team.
You could get a real CDN like Azure.
Yeah.
Let's, let's take a, an absolutely minuscule sized team and make one of the hardest possible
things you can do on the internet.
And also let's not use the cloud services because those are expensive and they restrict
you.
At least we won't cancel it.
That's true.
We're still around.
Cancel it.
When float plane goes under never, it can't sink.
It's in the name.
I don't know.
It could flip over.
Nope.
You put all the, all the CDN weight on one side.
Hardware costs on the same side.
Development costs on the other side.
Okay.
It's balanced.
Okay.
There's two more.
We might as well just do them.
Anonymous asks, would you happen to know why Nvidia is charging so much in Australia?
The 4090 converts from USD to 2,400 Australian dollars, but it's actually 2,900.
So it's a combination of things.
It's resellers taking advantage of that.
Australians are used to paying more for things and taking more margin in all likelihood,
whether that's distributors, whether that's the actual retailers, I couldn't tell you,
but I pretty much guarantee you there's some of that happening.
And then Nvidia is probably playing that game too.
A lot of the time.
There are also like import taxes.
There can also be import taxes and tariffs that are not the fault of the manufacturers.
So it could be some combination of those three would be my best guess.
I'm going to archive that now.
And finally, Tyler D asks, y'all mentioned dev jobs earlier.
Are you interested in newer graduates?
I have over a year of dev experience and think working with you guys is a dream job.
Well, it's harder than you think for one thing.
We're not like this fun all the time.
We're not actually really taking any applications right now.
I do have a position on the team now that is, is supposed to be more of a transitionary
transitionary position, which is a junior position.
The idea is that you come in, work as a junior, eventually we push you forward onto other
projects and then the next person comes into that slot.
But the person filling that position is newly in that position.
So it was amazing to wait some time.
Jake from the lab is particularly passionate about Stadia.
I don't think he was in the chat while we were discussing it earlier, but he's like,
as someone who tested Stadia extensively, it had the absolute without question best
platform technology wise.
And you know what?
That's, that's a super good point, but it doesn't Google man.
Yeah.
The trust isn't there.
Yeah.
Just that sucks.
It sucks.
They did this.
They built something really cool.
And then we're like, whoa, forget it.
I completely believe him.
As far as my understanding with the tech was fantastic.
The problem is that like the, the red dead player, 6,000 hours into red dead and it's
gone now.
Yeah.
You can't trust them with this type of stuff.
Yeah.
Like we never at any point said Stadia was bad tech, you know?
And so I get why people are so frustrated and passionate about it.
It's just Google doing Google things, man, it sucks.
And I think that's pretty much it for the show today.
It's gotta be.
Thanks for watching.
We will see you again next week.
Same bad time.
Same bad channel.
I'm going to bed.
Bye.
Yeah, I hear you.
Oh wait.
I'm not supposed to do this, right?
No.
Can I do it?
Because there's no thing, right?
Oh, so then you, you, you could, I guess, but you might as well just do it through here
and get used to it.
Cause that's what you're supposed to do.
Oh, I'm supposed to do it from in here.
Oh, there's an incoming one.
Holy cats.
You guys are still going mad props, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I'm just going to run it.
I'm gonna run it.
No, I archived it.
I'm running it.
Run it.
Oh, there was one.
Thanks Adam.
H Oh yeah.
Cause that's not how the queue works.
Yeah.
So we always have to run it through here.
I don't know.
I'm sorry.
I'm just tired.
Okay.
Okay.
Look.
Okay.
I'm not apologizing to you.
I'm apologizing to Conrad.
Yeah.
Nobody's sorry to you.
This is all your fault.
It's the compressors.
Isn't it?
All right.
Good night y'all.
Bye.