Hey, hey, it's WAN Show time again!
We've got a great show for you guys today!
Unfortunately, you aren't watching it.
You're watching the WAN Show.
Oh wow!
LOL.
You know, I really feel like when I'm old, what are those Muppets names?
The Hecklers?
The Old Man Hecklers?
Oh, I haven't watched the Muppets in about 25 years.
I don't know.
I think I know who you're talking about.
My goal in life is to basically be those guys when I'm old.
Muppets, Hecklers, I don't know what their names are.
Well that's not very difficult to do.
Ah, Statler and Waldorf.
So weren't they supposed to be sort of like weird versions like Siskel and Ebert or something?
Yeah, I think so.
I think so.
And you know, everything, everything is a one-liner with them.
They're like, this is a great show!
Yeah, great at putting me to sleep!
Oh man, I aspire to nothing more actually.
That's going to be very easy to do.
You're setting the bar very low for yourself.
I think I'm basically there now.
You're kind of old, you're just not old yet.
So that's all I have to achieve.
You just have to age.
That's it.
To do everything I want out of my life, I just have to continue to make it around the
sun like another 40 or so more times and then I'm great.
We live in Canada, they told me this is a safe country so it's probably fine.
Alright so welcome to the WAN Show you guys, we've got a bunch of great topics for you
today, including Intel uncharacteristically throwing shade at the competition, which for
the first time in like a decade is AMD.
It's like the insecurity is just dripping out of the computer screen.
Right?
It was pretty brutal.
It was pretty brutal.
Also, AMD's Ryzen Threadripper and Ryzen 3 have tons of new updates in a video post that
they created earlier on this week.
The SkylakeX VRM and thermal paste and power consumption mess has been explored by Tom's
Hardware and we've got John here to specially cover a legal topic that we wanted to get
into.
Which one was it?
The Zillow copyright infringement case.
Which sounds a lot less interesting than it actually is.
There we go, Zillow.
Massive website tries to sue a satirical blogger over photos that Zillow doesn't even own.
So brilliant.
Yeah.
So it's going to be a good one.
So let's go ahead and roll the intro and we'll see you on the other side.
Roll the intro.
Yes, it worked.
I think we might be a little bit out of focus.
That's okay.
I'm never focused.
I mean, you did just take the joke right out of my head.
So I'll give you credit for that.
You won't miss it.
Okay.
All right.
I fix it.
Come and come and put that back so that the intro will roll properly next time.
That is indeed why I do that.
Did Twitter just crash?
How do you even do this?
Is it Twitter's fault or is it Chrome's fault?
Maybe both.
I don't know.
It could very easily be both.
And Pella's over here playing with the focus.
Yeah.
Oh, thank you, Pella.
That is just wonderful.
And the tweet is up.
I didn't even know this though.
This is how double tweets happen.
Okay?
Chrome, thank you.
All right.
So the original topic here is from, wow, I actually managed to prepare even less than
usual for the WAN show today.
I do not have my HDMI cable plugged in and somehow I managed to, my muscle memory didn't
help me here.
I managed to put my mouse in the wrong spot.
All right.
We're not Boy Scouts.
We're not really prepared.
We're going to jump right in.
This was originally posted over on Ars Technica and-
Oh, we're doing this.
Okay.
In a nutshell.
Here we go.
Linus' screen.
Is it going to work?
Oh, wow.
There we go.
Okay.
Yes.
Okay.
So take me through this, John.
What is going on here?
So as you can see on the screen grab there, a site called McMansion Hell.
And for those of you who don't know, or probably mostly people not from the U.S. or Canada-
Yeah, what's a McMansion?
A McMansion is a large yet relatively cheaply built house.
It was, they were building them all over the place in the U.S. before the housing bubble
burst in the late 2000s.
And they're larger, but like I said, slightly cheaper, more cheaply built houses.
And so this blogger started this website called McMansion Hell.
And this blogger is, I think, an architectural student.
So she was going through and posting all these pictures of homes that she considered to be
McMansions and telling people, oh, these are terrible buildings that have terrible architecture.
Here are the reasons why.
And this is a regular blog that she updated.
Right.
It sounds pretty funny.
Yeah, it was pretty popular.
She had lots of visitors who liked her sort of snarky take on, oh, LOL, you can scrape
these windows off with a paint knife.
This is terrible.
So she got a lot of these pictures from Zillow, which is like this huge sort of like real
estate site.
If you want to sell your house, a lot of people use Zillow to post pictures of the house on
there.
Okay.
Yeah.
Anyway, Zillow got wind of this, and so they sent her a very angry cease and desist letter
saying, oh, you're infringing on our copyrights, and you can't do this and this and that.
So this kind of blew up.
She freaked out.
But to be clear, yeah, so she could lose her job, but Zillow didn't take these photos.
No, they didn't, which is like a huge wrinkle in this case.
So the photos that people, like they upload them to Zillow, right?
So if you want to sell your house, you take your own photos of your own house and you
upload them, the photos are yours.
And when, so I had to look at, what are we doing here?
That's what you sound like.
Sorry.
Go ahead.
That's what I sound like.
Okay.
Thank you.
I know what I sound like.
I have plenty of people in the Tech Quickie comments.
Hey, John, do you know that you sound like, are you from the South?
Yeah.
Where, where, where are you from?
Yeah.
It's what, what do you have in your mouth?
What do you have in your mouth?
What do you have in your mouth?
What's wrong with your voice anyway?
So I think someone has asked me that one time.
Okay.
Anyway, but all right.
So you take the pictures, you put them on Zillow.
I had to look at Zillow's terms of service and they say, okay, if you put pictures on
Zillow, you're giving us a non-exclusive license to, to use them.
Yeah.
That's pretty typical.
Like even on the LTT forum, I believe your text content, we actually say we own, but
pictures posted, we, we did something along those lines.
And okay, so if you look at, if you look at if Zillow can even sue, cause that's the big,
one of the big questions is like, do they even have standing to sue and, and standing
laws of, it's kind of a simple concept to understand, right?
If you're going to take someone to court, you have to be a party to whatever the dispute
is.
If someone walks in here and punches Linus in the mouth and knocks a few of his teeth
out.
Yeah.
So my neighbor, well maybe you could, I can't sue on your behalf.
My livelihood is at stake because my boss can't come to work and shoot the videos that
I write.
Therefore.
But it's a bit more tenuous, but let's say you were some complete fricking random.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can't sue because you have nothing at stake.
Well, well if someone, okay, suppose that Linus and I were just friends and we're walking
down the street together.
Suppose we were friends.
Suppose someone comes up to him, just punches him in the face.
I can't sue that, that guy on Linus's behalf.
He has to do it himself.
So the concept is that how, how the concept applies here, man, I've had way too much caffeine
in there, just all over the place.
The way the concept applies here is that the fifth circuit, which is, it was the ninth,
I'm sorry, but the ninth circuit of the US, very influential appeals court right below
the Supreme Court.
Yeah.
There was a case from a couple of years ago where they ruled that you have, you can have
standing to sue about infringement of someone else's copyright only if you have some sort
of exclusive right, which they in their own terms of service do not have.
Right.
If I don't know if it says non-exclusive specifically, but it doesn't specifically say it's what
you would have to do.
Correct.
So, so this is whether they even have standing to sue the McMansion hell blogger is very,
very, very unclear.
I would, my, if I were to hazard a guess, I would say they do not, but it didn't stop
her from being embroiled in this big legal battle.
She's got some pretty prominent IP lawyers on her side right now.
But it's, it's an interesting question about, you know, this could affect dank memes forever.
It absolutely could.
Who gets to use Pepe?
Which is why this conversation is important by the way.
Which is why we're having it on WAN shows.
But honestly, I'm still not over how low key burned I just got about a minute or two ago
there.
The friends comment?
Suppose we were friends.
No, no, no.
I qualified the statement by saying just.
Let the records show I said just instead of friends plus coworkers slash lines.
So on Facebook, our current status would be it's complicated.
Okay.
Okay.
See, see what you've done.
You've gone, you've gone on.
You've made this something.
Now there's going to be more horrible, like fan fiction written about this.
Thanks.
And now you're the one who invited it.
You're the one who invited, you know what, let's have Luke join us.
Let's have Luke join us for a fan fiction extravaganza.
If we're going to invite it, we might as well invite it.
What's happening?
It's just that I don't want you to come between us.
Oh, okay.
We're just friends to, to imply a legal hypothetical involving me and Linus and things happen.
So quick, get naked says Twitch chat.
Speaking of violating the terms of service.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So basically Zillow still says, um, they, they, what do they want?
They wanted to take down the photos.
Oh, okay.
But what's interesting about this, another thing that's interesting about this is that
even if some court said that Zillow has standing to sue, which I doubt, but if it gets to that
phase, yeah.
Um, one of the biggest things that courts look for, whether to determine if a use of
the copyrighted photo or something is fair use, that term gets thrown around a lot, fair
use is the effect on the market for the work.
Who the heck is going to like start selling their random pictures of their random McMansions
and make tons of money off of them.
Right.
You know, so, and I think, so there's a, there's a strong argument.
I'm not saying it'll win necessarily, but there's a strong argument saying there's no
real market for these pictures that's being affected, right?
So she wants to argue fair use.
But again, like I said, there's a standing issue may not even get to that point.
So okay.
Got it.
Yeah.
There's, there's multiple hoops to jump through in, in law.
If you've ever fought a traffic ticket, I'm sure you've figured that out.
So all right, so thanks John.
And I'm going to have Luke tag in because he actually just arrived back from the one
and only Silicon Valley.
Can we talk about the Juicero real fast before he tags out?
We can talk about the Juicero.
Okay, hold on.
Is that even in the doc?
Yeah, I put it in there like 45 minutes.
All right.
All right.
Let's bring extremely quickly.
We're bringing up the Juicero.
Tell me about, okay, so this is also from ours.
Have we ever talked about this thing before?
I know we haven't on the channel.
Have we ever talked about it?
Like on the wan show?
I, cause I don't believe not much.
We have.
Yes.
We've talked about it a little bit.
We said, yeah, it's dumb.
Okay.
I'll give you a really quick TLDR.
Um, if also, if you've seen any of, of, of criticals videos on YouTube, I'm sure you've
seen this where he lampooned this ridiculous thing called the Juicero and it's, it is a
juicer that originally cost $800.
They've since dropped the price to 400 and now it's going to be down to below 200 according
to this article from Ars Technica.
But all it is, is this thing, they ship you packets.
You know, they look like, they look like giant, you know, hot or cold packets or whatever.
They cost about five to $7 each.
You put them inside this thing, you shut the door on it, you press a button and it has
to be connected to the internet at all times.
It squeezes the juice packet and two minutes later you have the glass of juice.
That's literally what it does.
And it originally sold for, um, seven or I think it was actually $700 but it was very
expensive.
Okay.
So, so apparently they've cut the price already, they've cut the price down to $200 and they've
laid off a bunch of their staff.
And my question is, my question was why it was so expensive to begin with and apparently
this thing was this, it was ridiculously over engineered.
Some website did a tear down of it and it was a really, really high build quality, which
is great, but, sorry?
Oh, AVE.
Right.
Okay, AVE did the tear down, is that right, Luke?
Okay.
So he did the tear down and the thing was, like I said, absurdly over engineered and
all it was doing was just squeezing a bag of like fruits and vegetables to make juice
out of it.
Um, so they decided to lower the price down to $200 but I'm wondering why not just get
an actual like baller juicer from Bed Bath and Beyond or somewhere or Amazon for that
price?
You could even get like an Amazon Fresh subscription and have the veggies and the fruits delivered
to your door, if you're too lazy to go to the store to buy them, instead of this.
I mean could you see, is there a universe where you would find this useful, Linus?
Like if you want the fresh juice after a badminton game or something?
So I have a Vitamix.
Okay.
So basically everything else can just get crapped on.
So no.
So no.
There you go.
There you go.
And the stupid thing is that like, even at the $400 price point you could get a used
Vitamix, which by the way will probably run for like 50 years because those things are
unbelievable for the same price and then you could put literally anything, like you could
put a child in a Vitamix.
We don't advise you do that.
Which has never happened.
Well I can't say it's never happened.
Yes.
It's never happened to my children or in my presence, or at my instruction.
There you go.
Am I covering all my legal bases right now?
I think you are, please do not, I know that small children cry, but please don't put them
in the Vitamix.
Anyway, okay.
What is this, Maud's proposal?
It's like you're channeling the guy who wrote Maud's proposal.
Yeah basically.
This is so strange.
Oh crap.
Hold on, hold on.
Jonathan.
Wait.
Don't tell me!
No, you already gave me enough of a hint, Swift.
Okay, well.
Dang it.
We all know how intelligent you are, Linus, it'll be alright, so.
Well, remembering facts is not an indication of intelligence necessarily.
Although a complete inability to remember any facts could be an indicator that you're
not intelligent, so what does that mean about people who remember a lot of facts?
Nothing.
Yeah, I say that's accurate.
Alright, of course a Twitch chat, Linus likes blended children confirmed.
No, I don't like them, why would I put them in a blender if I liked them?
Wait, what were we talking about?
Okay!
The flavor of dead children, apparently.
Onto our next topic.
So thanks, Jon.
Thank you, Linus.
I feel like I'm supposed to shake your hand, but like, you work here, I work with you every
day, it's weird.
I see you every day, it's fine.
Yeah, I know, but it's like, I feel like we're having guests on a talk show right now, and
that's what they always do.
They're always like, yeah, Jon, welcome to the show!
Hey, Jon, thanks for being on, and we'll see you after the break!
Yeah, you don't- Fresh books!
Don't shake my hand.
Yeah, okay.
No, you're not, um, you're not, uh, who's doing the light show now, Colbert?
Yeah, Colbert.
I'm not Colbert.
You know what?
That hurts.
I just want to say, uh, thanks for having me on the show.
Yeah.
I really, I really appreciate having you here today.
He knows what's up!
He knows what he just made!
Sucka!
You made me look so bad!
I really appreciate the way I'm showing.
First he called me not a friend, then he's like, you're not Colbert.
Fine!
Ah.
Oh, man.
Okay, so, do you want to talk about where you were, like, on a very high level?
I can.
I can.
Hell yeah!
Let's do it!
So, I got freakin'...
You got burned!
Owned.
You were down there for one, only one side of your face!
And, like...
What are you doing?
Uh, okay.
This side is white, and this side is red!
Your brave heart!
Is it that bad?
Your brave heart, dude!
I have to wait for this to catch up.
Oh, it's pretty bad.
Your brave heart!
Okay, so...
What are you doing?
I went to Twitch, I went to hang out with my friend, Jon, and, uh, at one point in time
he was like, let's go get lunch at the pier.
Didn't realize how far away the pier was.
So we walked for, like, a very long time.
It's like pier, and they're, like, numbered or whatever, right?
I don't know.
Yeah, okay, sure.
And then had to walk all the way back.
They're trendy.
In the sun the whole time.
Yeah.
On one side.
While I'm carrying my, like, ridiculously heavy backpack.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I picked up on that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was, uh...
It was an experience.
So how was your trip?
It was really good!
It was fun checking out Twitch.
They are a crazy company.
Um...
Be careful what you say.
Need I remind you what benevolent overlords we are leaning on right now to broadcast this
here stream.
This might be interesting.
Oh, Lordy, it's Luke's mom.
Oh, good.
Hello?
My favorite.
Hi!
Hi!
How many times have I talked to you, Luke, about sunscreen?
How many times?
I didn't know how long the walk was gonna be.
Your mom's on my side for a change.
You know, you know, you know, when we went to Mexico, Mom Lefreniere, you know what happened?
He didn't bring any sunscreen at all.
He asked me to buy him a tube of sunscreen after he'd already been burned, which, by
the way, is not how sunscreen works, as you well know, and then he didn't pay me back
for it.
Oh, my God!
I didn't really remember the story that he said he didn't pay me back for it, and I was
like, yeah, it's probably true.
Oh, my gosh.
Well, the good thing about this is, Linus, he is now your problem.
Whoa, whoa, hold on!
That's a big step.
We just shook hands.
I did not.
What a transition.
I'm not signing any documents taking legal custody of this guy.
Getting adopted when you're in your, like, mid-twenties?
Heck yeah.
All right, any more burns, Linus, and it's on you.
I can't.
She just leaves.
Wow.
Hangs up.
Even when I agree with your mom, she still finds a way to burn me, even when we're on
the same team.
Maybe not as bad as I got burned.
Yeah, not as bad as you got burned.
But, yeah, it was a fun trip.
They have, like, multiple five versus five gaming lounges in their studio.
Of course they do.
They have a bar.
Of course they do.
It's like an open bar on Fridays.
Of course they do.
At least for the team that I was talking to, they're, like, time policy.
They have unlimited vacation.
They show up any time they want before lunch is served at Twitch.
I don't know the exact time that that is.
It's not noon, but it's, like, whenever it's served at Twitch, and, yeah.
So when am I getting your two weeks notice?
No, no.
I think I'm going to stay.
I get a month?
At least a month, yeah.
Yes!
Well, that's okay.
I can train up a new Luke in that time, no problem.
No problem at all.
Yeah.
It was a fun trip, though.
Yeah?
It was good.
Pretty cool?
Okay.
So, let's move on to our first topic.
This is actually, like, okay.
A little spicy.
So, here's the thing.
You know, you go hang around, you know, slash G or whatever, and you'll find plenty of hate
for Intel and their business practices and their communications, and you'll find hate
for anything Intel.
But for the most part, for the last, you know, eight or so years, when they haven't really
had a real competitor, Intel has put on a very good, and it's up to you, the individual
viewer, to pick your next word.
This is like a choose your own adventure book, okay?
You can decide whether it's having a pretty professional image or a pretty professional
facade.
It's up to you.
I don't care.
But for the most part, they've been fairly professional and fairly dignified in their
corporate communications and their slide decks, in their presentations to partners and to
the press.
So, this was originally posted by Finnhulkvist on the forum.
Finnhulkvist.
I love that name.
Any Nordic names are just freaking awesome.
Hulkvist.
Nordic name.
The operation cannot possibly go wrong.
It's to have a name like Hulkvist.
And the original article here...
Oh, I thought it was literally Hulkfist.
Oh, no.
I was like, I don't think that's a...
Yeah, no.
Okay.
No.
I got you.
So, Intel, this is just unbelievable.
So, posted by TechPower up here in an official slide deck, posted the following, okay?
First of all, there's some debate in the industry as to a couple of things.
Number one, as to how exactly Intel is deriving these SMT numbers.
So that's Intel's hyper-threading TM and AMD's, what are they calling it?
I don't know.
I can't remember.
Whatever.
Something else.
But SMT, okay?
So...
Symmetrical, multi-threading performance.
Symmetrical, multi-threading.
So where you take one core and you feed it a couple of threads so it can process both
of them more efficiently than if it had just processed one thread in the first place.
Okay.
So it's unclear a couple of things.
Number one, how exactly they derive these numbers, because they don't necessarily align
with what all the sort of tech media are seeing.
And number two, whether this is an applicable comparison in the first place, because Intel's
basically taken a Xeon 6134 and they have run clock for clock against a Ryzen 7 desktop
chip with the clear argument being that this is a close analog because these are both 8
core, 16 thread processors running at 2.2 gigahertz.
Now, to be clear, probably that comparison works fine.
Because contrary to what the people who got really confused by mine and Luke's discussion
about Vega Frontier Edition, contrary to what those people think, architecturally, hardware
wise, the consumer grade stuff is often not materially different from the enterprise grade
stuff.
Sometimes you'll see better binning, a longer warranty, you'll see more functional units
enabled or you'll see some flags enabled for features that were turned off in order to
artificially differentiate them.
That's where most of the difference comes from.
So fundamentally, Intel's comparison here may not actually be that far off hardware
hardware wise, but that doesn't change that there are other questions here as well.
What's the baseline?
That's one thing I really hate about these graphs.
Single thread.
So that's the other thing you don't know is single thread, I guess.
So improvement over Intel single thread, improvement over AMD single thread, I guess.
They don't say anywhere.
Well, there's more information on slide 20 to 21.
So that's fine.
Sure.
Honestly-
The negative 13% is just like, what?
That's not, well, there are situations where hyper-threading as well does result in a performance
loss.
Right.
But I don't think we've seen that on Rison.
We haven't, but that specific workload that who knows how cherry picked or not cherry
picked it is.
So honestly, that's not the thing that bothered me that much.
It's not that unusual, whether it's AMD Intel or Nvidia to include some basic performance
comparisons when they're trying to make their product look good in a slide deck.
This one is one of the ones that blew me away, where Intel basically gave themselves a check
mark for robust ecosystem, decades of investment in software optimizations and validation,
easier application deployment for customers.
And some of the stuff on here is just like, okay, hold on a second.
Like hold on.
What?
Okay.
So yeah.
Hold on.
Hold on.
Okay.
I'm trying to find something just totally stupid.
There were, there were a couple that were, that were really dumb.
Like we're gigabytes on here somewhere.
Like what, what software optimization are you doing with gigabyte on your new server
chip that AMD doesn't, here it is.
So here's, here's like gigabyte on here because fricking or something.
So then AMD doesn't get gigabyte on their list of partners, right?
Not even gigabyte, literally none who I'm pretty sure that AMD works with question mark.
We didn't look into it.
Not even super micro, okay, who I'm pretty sure that AMD is working with on their Naples
product.
And by pretty sure, I mean, you can, you can bet on that.
And the list goes on and on.
I'm sure AMD has talked to Microsoft.
Okay.
I'm pretty sure that conversation is going, going on right now.
So they basically go X, they take this quote totally out of context, expect software optimizations
needed for Naples, just like Ryzen, which is fair.
But what Intel ignores is that when they launch a new architecture, software optimizations
are needed.
It is, it is not even newsworthy, whether it's Intel or AMD for there to be an erratum,
I believe is the singular of erratia, okay.
So some kind of weird bug where the CPU needs updated microcode and needs maybe even a driver
fix in order to fix some kind of a weird hardware bug that that stuff happens to both of them.
And basically they're going to get, they've turned that into AMD's Ryzen CPU gaming performance.
Oh yeah.
Okay.
So they took, so they took another quote totally out of context, Ryzen CPU gaming performance
inhibited by lack of optimization.
So they're basically saying, look, software not optimized for their four die per socket
implementation, likely a multi-year investment effort to develop, optimize and validate an
ecosystem that is, is taking a nugget of truth and blowing it up into a movie theater room
filled with popcorn.
And a nugget is not even a kernel.
That's how far off we are.
Random little tidbit.
I can't verify this because I, I can't find them, but apparently there's two Hitachi's.
Hitachi's just listed twice.
Oh, seriously?
Which is just kind of funny.
Here's Hitachi.
Hold on.
Here we go.
Okay.
Where's the other one?
So here's a Hitachi and here's a Hitachi.
Oh, there you go.
So Intel works with Hitachi so much that they Hitachi while they Hitachi so they can Hitachi
while they Hitachi.
Yo dog.
They're, they're that hardcore on Hitachi.
I mean, for all I know, there's multiples that are in there twice because I don't think
anyone looked that closely at this slide.
No, I don't think legal looked at this slide or maybe, maybe they did, but they were just
like, yeah, I don't really understand.
Oh no, no, no.
I thought IBM was in there twice, but no.
Yeah.
All right.
Okay.
And you know, what's the craziest part is this is that that's not even where this ends.
No, like that's not even the super hardcore part.
This isn't my opinion.
No, no, this gets worse.
And once again, Oh, in these black and white terms.
Okay.
Okay.
Oh, Intel.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
This is like, you know, you know, when you go to one of those, like it's usually slightly
ghetto websites and they'll be like, this is our product.
Whole bunch of check marks.
Usually it's for like a video ripping software, right?
This is their product.
No check marks.
They suck.
And sometimes it's on nicer stuff, but usually it's a little bit more granular and they'll
actually show like, yeah, their software does this thing, but we do more of these things.
Yes.
And usually that's the dignified way to do it.
Yeah.
Whereas like the janky software way is like has three red pixels in the bottom corner.
Yes.
Doesn't.
Doesn't.
So here we, so, so let's go, let's go, but let's go back to this and I'm taking this
out of here cause we got it.
We got to look at the slide proven system performance and innovation, inconsistent performance
from four glued together, desktop dies.
Do I detect that Intel is neither blue nor red, but perhaps a little green right now
about infinity fabric because it's not glued together.
And and do I detect some nearly decade old salt right now from back when AMD was crapping
on Intel for gluing together single core processors, which by the way, Intel was super doing back
when they released the Pentium D series, um, compared to AMD's architected dual core design.
Do I detect some salt here because a modular, a modular core design is not the same thing
as taking your single core product and slapping two dyes onto a package.
Okay.
Let's carry on.
Next point architected for the data center, which has nothing to do with inconsistent
supply, nothing at all and poor track record.
Now you can go after AMD for having a bit of a poor track record over the last little
while.
Sure.
And AMD's supply for Opteron has been the problem.
I just don't think anyone's wanted it for a while.
So basically Intel is taking irrelevant, unrelated points and saying, and we're architected for
the data center, which has nothing to do with those other things we said.
Also Naples is super architected for the data center.
Okay.
AMD epic may have a silly gamery name and it does, but that changes nothing about the
way that infinity fabric and the way that they built this architecture for Mondo PCI
express lanes, which is super a big deal for the data center right now.
That has nothing to do with the way that this product was designed for massive amounts of
memory and massive numbers of connected devices via PCI express.
Okay.
Carrying on robust software and hardware.
We're going, we're going after that again.
We're going after the ecosystem, lack of ecosystem.
They have no ecosystem, none at all, none at all exist.
You can't, you can buy the chip, you can't put it in anything and there's no software
for it.
There's no compatible hardware.
Here's the problem with this hard sales pitch in this deck right now.
If Intel had come out and said, look, we've got a more mature ecosystem.
That's way more reasonable.
We've been supporting the data center for the last five years in a way that AMD has
just been completely out of the game for.
We understand our customers better than AMD coming in as practically an outsider is in
a position to do right now.
You know what the weird thing is?
I'd have gone, okay, the people who hate Intel are going to hate this because they can find
something to hate in anything that Intel does, but I can accept that.
This slide I cannot accept.
This slide specifically feels like some person, you know how every once in a while you'll
see like Intel slides and it's obviously not a real Intel slide.
It feels like some random dude on YouTube was like, I have memes.
Intel's attacking AMD and just like threw this slide together in five minutes.
This is dank memes.
This is dank memes level.
And the show is not even over.
Like the show's not over.
There's but wait, there's more.
Oh, look at these.
Look at these arrows.
This is like a lesson in how to not do PowerPoint.
It's like the clickbait version of business marketing, right?
Fully integrated all capital letters, big arrow girl.
Here's Xeons.
Oh, Oh, by the way, uh, hold on a second.
Okay.
Yeah.
Here's the way that all the cash communicates and we're just kind of ignoring right now
the way that all these cores are interconnected because, um, in some it, okay, now I'm not
the, the, the Uber architect surely, you know, yes, I understand.
I'm intentionally speaking in an non grammatically correct fashion right now because CPU low
level CQ CPU architecture is not a strong point for me.
I do lean on more technical people like Dr. Cutress over at a non tech to explain this
stuff to me sometimes, but to represent your CPU architecture as fully integrated as though
there aren't internal interconnects and internal bottlenecks on a many core Intel Xeon is not
a fair representation of exactly how that works.
And they're saying here, single die implementation maximizes performance.
But in some cases that may affect performance positively compared to AMD's approach, but
to call AMD's approach, which by the way, these coherent links matter.
And the way that every set of Zen core, so there's eight per module here, the way that
every set of Zen course has a coherent link against every single other one freaking matters.
Notice the cross links in the middle.
That matters.
And they dropped the glued together again, glued together is not a fair representation
of what AMD is doing over there.
Unbelievable rough.
So it kind of, it kind of actually goes on and on, but I feel like we've spent a long
time on this topic.
And the point is this is beneath Intel.
This is not an appropriate dignified way for them to respond.
They don't have to like, even if they like, we've seen this before.
It's not like AMD has never blindsided Intel with an architecturally and price to performance
superior product Athlon 64 and first-generation Opteron came in and kicked ass in a way that
Zen actually doesn't like Zen is competitive, but not as crazy as like, yeah, yeah.
But it's not like AMD came out of absolutely nowhere and took the performance crown.
And even when AMD had the performance crown, it took a long time outside of the enthusiast
space and the, and actually, I mean, on server, it, it kind of went better than on the desktop,
but it took a long time for AMD to claw back significant enough market share that Intel
couldn't launch core to duo and basically crap all over everything aimed he had achieved
in a very short period of time from a business standpoint, not from an industry disruption
and moving all of us forward standpoint.
I mean, they brought us 64 bit on the desktop.
So the fact that Intel is, is reacting in this knee jerk, undignified fashion, it doesn't
make business sense.
It doesn't make company image sense.
It might not even make legal sense.
Yeah.
That's a little rough.
I said the glued together part is like specifically an issue.
So basically, come on guys.
So, uh, about that time, Oh, Oh yeah.
Great.
Uh, speaking of sup, you know, what's sup?
Uh, Oh, Oh, cool.
We haven't done a comic bento spot on a long time.
Uh, yeah, we have.
Oh, you did one.
Correct.
Oh, all right.
Well, whatever.
It'll be fun for me.
Yep.
So comic a bento is your original comic book subscription box with at least a $50 value
in each box.
Every box comes with four to five graphic novels and it's 25 bucks a month or less depending
on your plan selection.
There are monthly themes and this one is old school.
That's pretty cool.
There's there's Avengers for, I'm not going to go into like, are you ruining what I'm
about to unbox?
Did you just do, did you just do what I thought you did?
There's not Avengers.
Definitely a it's the top one on the box.
Of course it is.
That's okay because that means you can't spoil that much of the surprise for me.
Yeah.
That would have been pretty obvious.
It comes with a cardboard backing so your precious graphic novels will not be a bent
unnecessarily.
All right, cool.
A classic feeling team updated for a modern reading experience.
Wow.
These are actually really nicely printed.
Yeah.
They often are.
Cool.
What else we got in here?
Captain Victory.
I have to confess, I am freaking not familiar with Captain Victory.
Neither am I.
Okay, cool.
Next up, we've got Sovereign.
One thing that I do like about these is they often try to come in with one that you recognize,
and then filter in some other ones that looks super cool, but you might not know about.
Unless you're like a super hardcore comic fan.
And that you'll, you'd never like, I mean, okay, perfect example of a sort of getting
drawn into something that might not have a great cover.
This has a great cover though.
Cinderella Serial Killer Princess.
How can I, like, I'm going to read this after the show, and that'll be great.
Apparently, it says for the Cinderella one specifically, I was reading this.
Serial Killer Princess, Critically Acclaimed Reinvention of Cinderella.
This book is for fans of Deadpool and Harley Quinn-esque comics, which if you look at the
front and the art style with like her heel and stuff, that's what totally makes sense.
And takes revenge violence to a whole new level.
Fun.
So perfect example of this is that I was stuck with absolutely nothing to do at my uncle's
house.
And the only thing on his shelf that wasn't like Russian poetry or something was Bone.
Are you familiar with Bone?
No.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
It's a graphic novel.
It looks like this thick for all of them.
You should borrow it sometime because it's great.
Sure.
It's something that I wouldn't have looked at unless somebody put it in front of me and
said, well, you have nothing else to do right now.
So you're going to have to read this or do nothing.
Or if I paid for it already, so damn it, I better try it.
Yes.
Yeah.
So cool.
And you can go to LTT to get seven bucks off comic bento today over at comic bento.com.
Also sponsoring the show today is fresh books slash LTX.
So if you're a small business owner or a freelancer and you're looking for a super simple accounting
tool, fresh books has got you covered.
And like, honestly, I could go on and on about it forever.
There's the fact that you can, uh, it's all cloud based, so you can do it on your desktop
or your laptop, or you can have the full functionality of fresh books on your mobile device.
You can track your expenses, you can bill your clients, you can see when they've seen
your invoices, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
But the point is if you want to save time and make more money by doing work instead
of documenting your work and billing for your work, fresh books is the way to go.
And they have graciously agreed to sponsor LTX 2017, which is coming up very soon, July
29th.
Uh, we've got literally a trailer load worth of swag over in the other way.
Have you seen the swag pile?
No, it's, it's fricking sick.
Can I steal some?
Uh, you can, you can do whatever is required at the show to get swag just like everybody
else.
That's actually way more interesting.
I'm totally down.
We've got swag, we've got activities.
We are going to have some very, very special builds there.
So the plan, the plan is to have the arcade build there, the ultimate DIY arcade.
The plan is to resurrect mineral oil PC.
The plan is to have a one of a kind wall pewter there.
You know about that project?
No, actually.
Uh, yes, yes, yes.
And there is a really special project.
All I'm going to say is it involves about 200 pounds worth of monitors and monitor mounting
hardware.
It's like genuinely really, really cool.
And it'll be there and you will see it in person.
It's cooler than the one that I saw down in Silicon Valley.
Cool.
Like straight up.
Um, so try out FreshBooks, head to freshbooks.com slash when and enter when in the how did you
hear about us section.
They got a free trial there.
And finally I fix it.
If you're familiar with I fix it and you probably are, if you've ever tried to replace a battery
in a sealed device or almost anything replaced a screen or upgraded an iMac because those
things are actually not easy to open up unless you've got all the equipment you need from
I fix it.
So they've got professional guides and they've also got a fantastic lineup of great high
quality tools and this one right here, the pro tech toolkit is now only 59 95 it includes
the 64 bit driver kit with all the bits that you need for just about any DIY electronics
repair.
It's got an anti static strap, it's got their suction cups, it's got their prime tools,
it's got their ESD safe tweezers and oh yeah, I've already spoiled the punchline.
It's only 59 99 now.
So head over to I fix it.com slash Linus and pick up yours.
You can often buy yourself and I fix it tech toolkit and for an hour or two of your time,
you can basically have your toolkit covered with the money that you would have spent paying
somebody else to do a very basic repair.
Honestly one of my favorite things about it is before this I had like a few different
screwdrivers yep and like they did different screwdrivers would have different size bits
with them and stuff and now I just grab one thing and you'd always be running around looking
for that one.
Yeah.
All right.
So this was posted originally by Valentine on the forum and a non tech is the original
article here.
We've got a lot more details about thread ripper as well as rise in three.
So the thread ripper 1920 X and 1950 X are going to be 12 and 16 core processors.
They are freaking huge.
That is a real human hand for scale and they're going to cost seven 99 and nine 99 AMD has
basically come right in and said, Nope, this stuff doesn't cost them dot PNG.
The pricing for wow.
Skylake X is now looking a little bit out of whack.
I mean it remains to be seen exactly how well they perform, but we know clock speeds.
The 1950 X will apparently have a base clock of 3.4 gigahertz and a boost of four gigahertz.
Wow.
That is not freaking bad on that many threads.
It's got a TDP of 180 Watts.
That's fun though, but I don't even care if rise in is anything to go by.
It looks like we might get a proper Tim.
So a proper thermal interface material, which will help to dissipate that heat and because
it is such a large, I don't want to say chip because that doesn't matter because the overall
dye area under the spreader is so large.
We're going to see coolers that are optimized to have heat pipes across as many of those
processing cores as possible and it should be potentially easier to manage.
Also assuming that AMD doesn't rush the ecosystem too much, hopefully we won't run into any
problems with the boards, but all of that remains to be seen and combined with Intel's
woes on X299 right now is further validation for all the people criticizing me for moving
our editors over to X99 shortly before the X299 launch.
That's why I do it because it has nothing to do with bias.
It's not AMD, Intel, Nvidia.
I don't give a crap.
If it's mission critical, I am not running.
You go one gen old, then you have all the BIOS updates, you have tons of different chip
set updates, you have so much.
And I might run it if it's one machine, but I'm not going to go and invest an entire workstation
change out in something that maybe it's good, or maybe I'm going to find out that that board
that I put in there has some silly bug that needs to be recalled or whatever.
When that would be thoroughly covered on forums everywhere by that time if you're buying a
year old board.
That's right.
I can just buy something that's basically the same board as what we've been running
on our test benches for the last year and a half.
Speaking of things you can do with this though, are you going to go back to XGamers once a
year with one CPU?
Not with Threadripper probably.
But if we can get something going with Epic, I would love to do something very interesting
with Epic.
And you can even be like, genuinely won this time.
Actually yeah.
Yeah, yeah we could.
Because a lot of people roasted Linus because it had two CPUs in it.
It was supposed to be a play on two girls, one cup.
I know what it was supposed to be, but I'm saying either way, I don't really mind it
that much.
Gamers, girls.
I thought the joke was funny.
I thought the joke was funny.
Everything's cool.
I'm just saying you could actually do it this time.
He is kind of a suck up, isn't he?
Jon was right.
Get out of here.
I don't even care.
I don't want you here anymore.
What is going on here?
I'm hosting a show by myself.
I'm still in the frame.
I can just talk louder for days.
Ow!
Alright, next topic.
SkylakeX mess explored, I guess it's my turn to throw at Intel.
Oh geez.
Yeah, it's kind of a rough day, hey?
So far, SkylakeX has been plagued by two main issues.
At its stock settings, it can barely be cooled.
Oh, your thing's in the way.
Oh no.
Sorry.
During normal operation.
This is due to its power consumption being extremely high in some situations.
We also found that the, hmm, there's a huge cooling issue with the board.
Oh yeah, VRMs.
VRMs, yeah.
The VRMs had a huge cooling issue.
That was a couple weeks ago.
There's barely any room for enthusiasts to overclock.
Also, many motherboards limit SkylakeX CPUs further due to poor design choices, like I
just mentioned, such as insufficient VRM cooling.
So this may be, this may be the dawn of the motherboard full cover block.
Oh hey!
So that's like, that's been a thing.
But it's never really made sense because, so going back, going back to like the early
2000s, it was pretty commonplace for motherboards to have little, whiny, annoying fans on them.
And then right around the time of like, I guess, N-Force, N-Force 3 or N-Force 4, what
was the A8N32 SLI Deluxe, SLI Deluxe, I can't remember what chipset that was.
I want to say N-Force 4.
Okay, so that's an A8N32 SLI Deluxe, terrible image, but you get the point.
So we did away with noisy Northbridge and especially Southbridge coolers, because they
have to keep it low profile because you can install cards here, right?
SLI existed at the time.
And we did away with that and we moved towards this.
Heat pipes that lie flat on the board and carry all the heat up around the CPU socket
area with the assumption that either you're gonna have an air cooler sitting on your CPU
that's gonna generate enough passive airflow to deal with the VRMs here and here, as well
as the heat from the Southbridge and the Northbridge, which end up here.
So that paradigm has lasted us pretty much until now.
We might be returning to active cooling on VRMs if there's no other way to deal with
this.
And honestly, what this kind of looks like to me is like Intel has said that, like, hey,
that we have a plan for the rollout of Core i9.
So we're gonna do this here, this here, and it has to do with CPU yields, it has to do
with that.
Honestly, I wonder if part of it has to do with that they just like actually on the engineering
side have no idea how they're going to launch this and they're just trying to buy some time.
I could see it.
This will be interesting because it's gonna be pretty much the first time ever that I
will see a motherboard full cover block and be like, yeah, good call.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because in the past, it's looked really cool.
Yeah.
But it's been like, okay, that's an excessively expensive PC, probably because of a showcase.
And it probably makes no sense in terms of actually anyone ever doing this, but it looks
cool for whatever brand wanted to show it off.
Like sure, why not?
But that'll be pretty cool.
It'll be interesting having people like actually ask questions about full cover blocks.
I know, right?
Um, all right.
What else we've got for topics?
I just have to, I just have to pause the show for a second.
Uh, Timmy Val one, two, three in the Twitch chat just had an all capital letters.
I just wanted to make sure that I re echo this.
I have a boyfriend.
I just wanted to make sure it's apparently extremely important that you have one or that
Timmy does.
That Timmy does.
Hey, you know what?
Timmy.
Congrats.
Okay.
Good job.
All right.
Facebook plans to unveil a $200 now we've heard that before.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
Wireless.
That's new.
Oculus VR headset in 2018.
The whole Twitch chat is like, congrats to me.
Oh man.
Um, yeah, I mean that's cool.
Code name Pacific.
If anyone's looking to buy an Oculus Rift.
It's designed, and this is going to terrify you, to bridge the gap between cheap smartphone
mounted VR headsets and high end gaming ones.
It does not need to be tethered to a PC or a phone.
It will ship next year and represent an entirely new category.
The device, hold on, just hold it in for now.
The device resembles a more compact version of the Rift and will be lighter than Samsung's
gear VR headset.
The idea is that someone will be able to pull the headset out of their bag and watch movies
on a flight just the way you can now with a phone or tablet.
Hold it out, hold it in.
The new headset will have a similar interface to a Gear VR and can be controlled via wireless
remote.
They plan to power the product with a Snapdragon mobile chip from Qualcomm and its gaming power
will be superior to that of the Gear VR, but unlike the powerful Rift device and it will
not include positional tracking technology.
They plan to begin briefing content makers on the device by October and it will have
a download store, oh the download store will be rewritten and accessible from a virtual
reality interface.
And go.
So they gave up.
Like, is that it?
Is that all that has to say?
Oculus just gave up.
They're just like, ah screw it, VR's done, we're out of here, we have lots of Facebook
money, that's fine, no one's buying headsets because they're overpriced and not very good
right now.
So we're just going to stop developing those and we'll just make a phone that's built into
the headset so you can't take the phone out and there you go.
You could just buy this one that you can just slip this device that you've literally always
effing carry on you in the front of it and it'll just work and that would be totally
fine and it doesn't cost that much, but no, it's going to be ever so slightly faster and
you can watch movies on the plane!
Wow!
Because you can't already do that on your phone or like the screen that's built into
the freaking chair in front of you.
It's going to suck word that I'm not going to say in terms of performance and that's
a huge issue right now.
VR applications for desktop, your desktop computer is usually not fast enough to run
really really high fidelity, really really high quality games.
It's a little bit of an issue, it's a little bit hard to do, it's possible but it's difficult.
And then the headsets that you have right now for desktop tethered like the Vive and
the current Rift don't have good enough screens, don't have good enough a lot of other kind
of stuff to be at the minimum quality that consumers expect and they're way too freaking
expensive so you release a dedicated $200 device which no one's going to really want
to buy because they can just slip their thing into a daydream or whatever which should be
a lot cheaper and probably will be now that this launches for no reason.
Not to mention that stuff like this already has existed.
I literally carried, I was literally the product manager for Vue 6 back at NCIX.
Sony has one.
Yeah.
Like Sony professionally has a movie viewer designed for things.
Are you ready to chill out a little bit?
Because I withheld one key piece of information from you.
Oh god.
I'm like very angry and disappointed but Facebook has also said it's working on a prototype
device named Santa Cruz that is basically a wireless Rift with the full power of the
original device sans PC.
Maybe that's not going to make you any less mad probably.
Sans PC.
Without a PC.
Wait, what?
Okay, sorry.
I thought they were just talking about wireless Rift.
I didn't read the last two words.
Okay.
I don't understand how that makes any sense either.
Sans PC.
So basically.
So you need a backpack or something?
So basically it's a porn device now.
Yes.
And you can watch porn on a plane.
They gave up.
Like I've mentioned on like two WAN shows recently, I've gotten some flack for it but
it is a thing.
It's not all of the posts but there's a notably increased amount compared to quite a few months
back if you go to like the Oculus subreddit of posts that are just about porn.
And you know what?
You want to look at porn on your device?
Go for it.
I don't care.
I don't give a crap at all.
But what these things are really supposed to be doing in the long run is like really
really interesting entertainment mediums.
Not watching movies on a plane.
I'm talking about like.
A virtual thing.
No.
Hold on.
Picture this.
Oh god.
Virtual big screen.
Just kill them a little bit inside.
I think every time.
Hold on.
Get this.
Simulated theater experience.
This is so bad!
It is so bad!
I don't understand.
It's so bad!
But there's such interesting experiences that you can do and such interesting experiences
that you can have.
If you come to LTX I'll try to show you some of them.
There's specific.
Servios is a specific VR game development company that is making very good and very
interesting things.
Raw data and I don't remember the name of their new one but it's a running one.
And it's racing and it's actually really cool.
You race against each other and you can like you have to run around but it's kind of like
skis.
I finally got Arizona Sunshine.
Arizona Sunshine is pretty cool.
There's Robo Recall is like amazing.
Like there's really really good experiences that you can have.
But the device was supposed to be a different price than it was by a lot because there's
a huge cost in the computer already and it's way too expensive.
Pissed off!
This was really fun.
Okay.
Why don't we talk about something a little lighter?
Well, it's a little heavy.
The KFC phone!
It's the only thing about KFC that could be light at all.
This might make more sense than that stupid thing that they're using.
Huawei's special edition KFC smartphone for China.
Sorry.
Someone in the chat just said man cares too much.
I do.
I really want VR to work.
And I just I feel I feel like they're just doing like clearly the wrong thing.
They'll make it work.
It's just going to be like kind of lame mainstream VR for like a long time.
A long time.
And like that gap I was talking to was it Rubio?
Jeff Rubio?
I could have the name wrong.
But the guy from Naughty Dog that now works for Oculus.
And he gave a timeline and I was like you know what that makes sense.
And I think it was something about something around three years from when I had that meeting.
And you can line up that meeting because that lined up with a Counter-Strike tournament
where I made a video about watching the Counter-Strike tournament with the Vive.
I don't think that's going to happen anymore.
So in other news, it's to celebrate KFC's 30th anniversary within the country of China.
The KFC edition of the Huawei Enjoy 7 Plus was unveiled by the restaurant chain via its
official Weibo page.
In addition to a snazzy red finish and a picture of the kernel on the back of the device, the
smartphone comes preloaded with the KMusic app which allows you to play music over the
speaker system installed in KFC restaurants.
Which definitely wouldn't get annoying really, really, really fast for everybody else and
won't be eliminated entirely almost immediately.
Only 5,000 of those smartphones will be produced.
Pre-approved music that you can put through it.
I guess so.
And there are other weird KFC things.
So oh, no, never mind.
These are just other weird KFC things.
They had a takeout box that apparently doubled as a smartphone charger and a facial recognition
scanner in conjunction with search giant Baidu, whatever, to help offer meal suggestions.
Oh boy.
I guess it just looks for how many chins you have and decides how many pieces of chicken
you need.
Is that how that would work?
I wonder how difficult it would be to get machine learning to analyze faces.
That would actually be fascinating.
If you could.
How accurate it would be.
If you could try and figure out.
That would be very interesting.
Because KFC, unlike somewhere, okay, so let's take it A&W.
Actually A&W in the States is actually very different from up here.
So none of this might make any sense, but let's take A&W.
You can be like a matzah burger person or you can be a teen burger person and there
would be nothing you could know or like a chubby chicken burger.
These are all sort of equivalent quantities of food, but they taste quite different.
Whereas at KFC, there's chicken and there's less chicken and there's more chicken.
It's like a bucket of chicken.
There's like a little tiny box or a small box of bucket of chicken or a trough of chicken.
It's all about chicken.
I would be curious to know if you could just enter like a picture of yourself and like
of your house and of yours and entered your BMI.
If it could tell you what you were planning to order at KFC.
That would be a very interesting study.
Just in like in like how humans do things and like psychology, it would just be a very,
very interesting study.
I would read it.
Okay.
The OnePlus 5's display is upside down, so this was posted by Nerd Slayer on the forum.
Oops.
Confirmed.
The jelly scrolling effect, which honestly I didn't even notice.
It is amazing.
The kinds of things like, well, it's stupid because like I'll be able to tell the difference
between like 72 and 60 Hertz on a display if I'm playing a game or something and people
will be like, who cares?
Whereas like I look at like a phone and I'm like, there's a slight kind of rebounding
effect when you scroll and they're calling it the jelly scrolling effect or something
like that.
And apparently it is caused by OnePlus moving the motherboard and hence flipping the display
panel in order to accommodate their new dual lens camera module.
So they consciously rearrange the internals and then are using a, a normally only used
for diagnostics, but they actually use this.
So they used a field that you can, that exists in Android where you can flip the display
180 degrees.
Yeah.
In order to account for this rearrangement.
That's so weird.
So what users did was they manually changed other devices to be upside down and the jelly
scrolling effect appeared on them.
Now what I'd like to know, because obviously if you hold a display like this that doesn't
have an upside down display installation and go like this, or you hold it like this and
go like this, it doesn't matter.
So what I want to know is if this is just a matter of a simple optimization that could
be done in software.
It feels like it would be.
So we'll, we'll see, we'll see.
The Google pixel two design was leaked.
This was posted by mr chow one nine nine one zero three one nine on the forum and the original
article here is from Android police.
Apparently it will be made by LG this time rather than HTC.
And this is apparently the pixel XL with a low bezel AMOLED display and a squeezable
frame.
So HTC won't be the only one with a squeezable frame.
I guess that's cool.
It's one of those things that like I've never really asked for.
Why do you want, what's the benefit?
You can have it do stuff.
Okay.
Yeah.
Um, six inch AMOLED display with round corners, a glass window on the back is smaller this
time.
Fingerprint readers no longer inside of it, but below it, no visible antenna bands.
It's believed it will have a squeezable frame.
Okay.
Well, let me know.
None of that sounds super important to me.
Um, there's things that I care a lot more about on the pixel too than any of that information.
So I think we'll have to wait.
Logitech is on a roll here with acquisitions.
This was posted by dias in on the forum.
The original article here is from CNET apparently, or I could just use the, uh, press release
that they sent me auto play.
No.
So there, there, there won't be like a gaming headset industry eventually because it'll
just be Logitech and razor and razor.
That's fair.
Who else exists?
Turtle beach is sort of still kicking around like on the console side, I think.
Oh, okay.
I don't understand quite how, but I didn't understand why Astro had a right to exist
either.
I mean, to be clear, apparently the a 40 is great.
Um, the only one I ever reviewed was the a 50 and it was terrible.
I've never had a good experience with them.
It was an abominable value and that was compared to wireless headphones that are headsets that
existed back then and to my knowledge, I don't think they've updated it.
So they bought ultimate ears.
They bought Jaybird, they acquired sci-tech and they've been doing great things.
I haven't seen what they've done with sci-tech yet.
Have they released anything?
I don't know if they've done much with sci-tech, um, but basically Logitech kind of went, well,
we're an engineering company and we're just going to embrace that and screw it.
We're just going to buy brands.
It's been working so far.
The ultimate ears one, especially.
I'm interested to see what they do with sci-tech cause I love that kind of stuff.
But yeah.
Yeah.
Meanwhile, razor is running around buying THX and phone maker next bit.
So apparently the deal will close in early August and uh, yeah, basically I didn't even
read any of Logitech statements about it cause this is fairly transparent.
Yeah.
Logitech couldn't figure out why the hell anyone was using Astro gaming headsets, which
is valid.
So they went, okay, well I don't want to deal with this anymore and bought them, which is
valid.
Yeah.
So we love the Astro gaming branding, especially from way back in the day.
It was really sick.
Like I remember they had at packs, they were giving away an Astro gaming shirt and it was
like by far the coolest one at the event.
And like they had a really cool booth and they partnered with really cool people.
So I could understand how it's like you're just woefully ignorant in terms of headsets
and you're like, I went to this cool event and they had cool stuff.
I'm going to tell my friends and we're all going to buy them.
You know what I mean?
Especially before like reviews on that kind of stuff was a big thing and easily accessible
lately though.
I don't know how they're still around.
I don't know, man.
Basically this is great.
So apparently Logitech is taking in and if it ain't broke, don't fix it approach here.
And the Astro and Logitech G brands will keep separate teams.
And basically they're saying we don't just want to jam a new product down your throats
every year just because we can.
So that's the nice way of saying, if you guys like this trash, then we'll just keep making
it for you.
As far as I can tell, because there's no doubt that Logitech's engineering knows a lot more
about engineering than Astro's engineering.
Astro might be able to help them make it so that the headsets don't fall off people's
heads.
Okay.
That's fair.
That would be good.
That's fair.
One little update there.
Yeah, that's fair.
But then Logitech also could have just like gone and bought a HyperX cloud and disassembled
it if they wanted to understand how that works.
Yeah.
All right.
So on that note, thank you for watching the WAN Show.
We will see you guys again next week.
Same bat time, same bat channel.
Do you want to do a short after party stream?
We can.
Sure.
Let's do it.
Yeah.
Bye.
Bye.
People are calling me Linus Lane tips.
Wow.
Why?
I have never been called something that offensive in my life.
Look at this.
How do they do this?
Like, how do you screw this up?
Unbelievable.
The easiest thing in the world would be to use the same file.
This one's, see, this one's right, sort of, except the faces.
Why did they change?
I don't know.