I'm starting to stream.
Yes, I'm sure I want to start the stream.
I wouldn't have, you know,
eased up on my bladder muscles
if I didn't want to start the stream.
I did read the instructions.
I followed the instructions.
We are not on the test streaming thing.
You, yes, I did set the title.
Thank you, Jake.
You're, you are my chicken dinner.
Like you're a winner.
That's what, that's what I mean.
I don't mean that he's like kind of salty and savory.
I like your thighs.
All right, so we have a pretty mediocre show
for you guys today because frankly,
they're just says you, I'm bringing the awesome.
There just wasn't really a lot going on this week.
Why would you say that?
Well, do you want people to leave?
They're not going to leave.
I mean, they already went through the effort
of clicking on this.
They'll go down, go down with me.
Yeah.
I mean the ship, go down on the ship, not.
No, you don't go down on the ship.
You don't go down on you either.
That's what I'm trying to get out of here.
So we do actually have some legitimately interesting topics.
Google mandates two years of security updates
for popular phones.
How do we define popular?
I guess we'll.
Oh, there's a definition.
Cross that bridge when we get to it.
The meme tax means maybe you won't be able
to upload to YouTube.
Yeah.
Okay, no, I'll talk.
I'll talk more about it later.
More bridges to cross.
There's been another big win for right to repair.
And the iPhone iOS 12 defeats the gray key locker thing
that police use.
Suck it police.
But I mean, blue lives matter.
I mean, ah, let's get out of here.
Roll the intro.
Wow, you are so never coming on WAN Show again.
Yes.
Oh,
I'm gonna miss the first one.
Restful!
Madrina.
Madrina.
All right.
Do you think that you have RBF?
What is RBF?
Resting mean face.
Oh, resting mean face.
You know what?
Let's see your resting face at the camera.
I would actually, yeah, I would much rather hear
if you think I have resting, resting B face is what's up.
So the only reason that it really comes up
in my household a lot is that one of my daughters.
She has RBF?
She's like two.
Actually, she's the older one
and it was much worse when she was two.
So we talk about it all the time.
Obviously we can't say the B word
so we'd say resting B face.
I've never heard anyone call it RBF.
Put your face at rest.
Okay.
Eh.
No, I mean, we'll let the audience be the judge.
I don't think you have RBF.
Are you kidding me?
I think it's more of a conscious thing with you.
So you do.
Dude, look at this.
So you do.
Look at my eyebrows from the side.
Okay.
They're pointing down.
That doesn't help.
I thought it was on purpose.
Before the show I was just going over my notes.
I looked up at the camera there and I was like,
this is what I look like when I'm just reading stuff.
I'm just like.
Yeah, you have kind of an intense vibe to you.
Like I've actually had.
I mean, I don't think that the WAN show
is really the place to air like HR issues.
To literally air it.
But I've actually had people talk to me
about how James can be kind of intense.
Like, I'm not sure if he likes me.
You know?
That's so funny.
I think that about Tyler.
I think Tyler, I think, I know he's the nicest guy.
He's like a teddy bear.
But he also hates all of us, I think.
I don't think he does.
I think Tyler is the least likely
LMG employee to go postal.
Well, but there's also other things
that are just personal preference.
Like, if you walk by Tyler in the morning
and you haven't seen him yet,
he might just walk by you and not care to say good morning.
And I'm fine with that.
There's a lot of people here.
You don't want to spend half your day saying good morning.
Yeah, there's 20 people.
Like I got past saying good morning to everyone,
probably around the time we hired you guys.
Cause I mean, you were basically everyone
that I passed in the morning was new
and therefore it didn't matter anyway.
No, but there was just too many people.
All of a sudden, instead of,
cause the upstairs used to be,
who the hell used to be upstairs?
There was no, well, there's Chelsea.
That's right.
The sales team was there.
So there was, and then it wasn't, wasn't it?
No, Nick was in his office.
No, he wasn't.
Yeah.
No, Nick had an office.
No, when I started Nick and Chelsea
and Colton were all in that corner
by where Anthony and Alex are now.
Is this even interesting?
I mean, it doesn't really matter, but I mean, okay.
We'll, we'll get to why I'm wearing eyeliner shortly.
I think that's what everyone's waiting to, waiting to hear.
Cause it's Friday night, baby.
Yeah.
No.
And you're taking me out dancing.
And how come Batman doesn't dance anymore?
Did he used to?
Like in the seventies?
It's a Simpsons quote, man.
Okay, you know what, I'll explain why I'm wearing eyeliner.
So we,
You must super chat us if you want to know.
No, no, they don't have to super chat us.
Come on, we're sellouts, aren't we?
We're shills.
That's, that's the word on the street.
So basically I take exception to Razor's branding.
I mean, I understand branding is, it's, it's marketing
and it's, it's, it's not meant to be just like a,
a purely dry, I do love this pillow though.
It's, it's not meant to be just like a purely dry
description of the product.
Like if, if Razor called their mice pretty good mouse
that is pretty good and the ergonomics are good enough
that the pro gamers we endorse didn't throw them away
and it's pretty expensive, but like, it's pretty good.
Like if they called it that, obviously no one would buy it.
But if they call it Mamba, you know,
that's how it sounds a lot more appealing.
But the whole thing that they've started doing
over the last few years where it's like,
they, they refer to themselves as the world's premier
lifestyle brand for gamers,
lifestyle brand for gamers.
I kind of, I kind of take exception to that
because maybe I'm wrong.
But to me, when I, especially when I was younger,
when I didn't have like a full-time job,
cause I was still in school, to me,
what made something gaming was that it was no frills.
And it was like great bang for the buck.
And it had nothing, nothing about it.
That didn't give me more FPS.
Function over form completely.
Function over form was gaming.
Like an Athlon XP 2500 plus was like a gaming CPU
because compared to, I mean, it's, it's, it's funny.
Some things never change.
AMD fanboys were just as diluted back then
as they were like two years ago before Ryzen launched.
And they still thought that AMD had processors worth buying.
Like it's, it's amazing.
And, and so for me, when I bought a Barton 2500 plus,
I was the diluted AMD fanboy.
I was like, yeah, I'm going to overclock it to 2.2 gigahertz,
which is equivalent to a 3200 plus,
which is equivalent to a P43.2.
But that was just AMD's marketing.
It wasn't equivalent to a P4 Northwood, come on.
Wasn't even close.
Not to mention that Northwood had hyper-threading,
which at the time, remember this is pre dual core,
made a pretty significant difference
to the overall usability of the experience.
And so to me, if nothing else though,
a Barton 2500 plus was a gaming CPU
because games back then only used a single core.
So you didn't need hyper-threading to get better FPS.
Do you think that the industry started to add frills,
even in gaming lineup things,
just by virtue of there being more competition?
Like there, you think there are,
are there more gaming products now,
more gaming product lines now,
and then to differentiate, they, they add in these,
they're just less Barton because it is different.
So hard to differentiate these days.
And so I don't, I don't blame them for doing it.
But basically the reason that I have the remnants
of eyeliner on is because I'm kind of taking the piss
as like a gaming lifestyle sort of character
at the beginning of the video for the Razer Phone 2,
which is going to be an interesting video by the way.
What? I saw the getup.
How is that? Okay.
I'm like edgy.
I'm an edgy.
That's you trying,
just shut up.
You have such a warped view.
Okay.
Obviously it's like over the top and stupid.
So that's obvious.
You know what?
Well, yes, very over the top, various, okay.
Just, I mean, one part of the ensemble you didn't see
was that I have a messenger bag
that has an RGB keyboard in it that is illuminated
as I'm just walking down the street.
That's a very Edzel type thing to do.
Yeah, so it's like my gamingness is more of an accessory
and less of an actual, like how many FPS do I get per dollar?
And that's kind of my thing.
You should have been on a hoverboard.
I probably should have been on a hoverboard.
Are we going to do news?
I know you guys always do news
like when I'm not on the show
and I'm kind of trying to fight it
because I don't really want to do news.
Let's do some super chats.
Yeah.
What do we got here?
Whoa, I see cool Sue says, I was going to ask
why you don't refer to float plane comments
and only YouTube like in the iPhone response video.
And then I saw you just did a float plane exclusive
fair trade.
You're the best man to keep it up.
Well, thank you.
Thank you, you're the best too.
He's talking to me, dude.
And Bongchulink says paying the Linus tax again
for great free content.
You don't have to pay a tax for something that's free.
Paying the Linus tax for a great free contact.
Oh, the tax is that he has to listen to you.
Hey, Mape's watching.
What the heck are New Zealand dollars?
Oh, hi Mape.
What up dude?
All right, fine.
We'll do a news topic.
Wait, are you gonna answer that first question?
No, I don't know.
What was it?
I don't know, it was a paragraph.
Oh yeah, yeah.
He was like, he was cool with it.
So I was like, yeah, cool.
What?
Yeah, he was like, why do you only refer
to YouTube comments when you do like a response video?
Okay, I guess I could answer that.
It's because YouTube comments are more recognizable.
If we put up comments that are formatted for Floatplane,
only the like thousands of people on Floatplane
are gonna be able to relate to it.
So we tend to try to go as mainstream as possible
in the content itself,
which is why you'll hear me say things like,
dislike the video if you want,
even though Floatplane doesn't have a dislike button.
So is this person referring to like graphically
what they see on screen when we include comments
and they pop up?
Are they asking why do they always pop up
and look like YouTube comments?
Okay.
Um, Ben says, please remember to mention Folding Month.
Yeah, it's Folding Month.
That's in the doc.
It is Folding Month.
I've been folding for like three weeks already.
So I'm way ahead of you suckers.
But all month, it's Folding at Home,
which is using your computer as a,
in a distributed network to help research different,
fight diseases, like including cancer and Alzheimer's
and all sorts of stuff.
There's even Ebola stuff in there.
And it's cool.
Kind of topical right now.
I am warming up my house,
instead of turning the heat on.
All the super chats are for you.
Eddie says, oh snap, it's laser time boys.
Yeah.
All right, fine.
We'll do it.
We'll do news topic.
Google mandates two years of security updates
for popular phones.
This was posted by Die Hard to Live on the forum.
You're reading that like you've never seen that before.
Like I post all the time.
Yeah, I know.
But like, this is great.
I hate typing it.
So he's, why would you type?
You could copy paste.
That's what I do now.
Oh, okay.
It's great.
He's like here, he's like,
we need to do these news topics.
We need to do these.
Do you know how long James spends every week
making sure that in the event that Luke and I
can't figure out anything off topic to discuss,
we will have something to talk about
only for us to ignore like 80% of the topic sometimes.
Do you ever go back and look at like what we did cover
and what we didn't and get triggered?
Sometimes I stopped.
Well, I did and I stopped doing that.
When me and Luke do it, we do the news.
Yeah, okay.
But I also include fewer topics.
Like when him and I do it,
I'll just put like eight in there.
Hey, I put a couple.
I left a couple in last week that I'd said,
hey, we should really cover these next week.
And you took them out.
You didn't tell me that.
Well, I put it in the doc.
Oh, you just overrode it.
No, I scroll to the bottom
to see if anyone posted news items.
Then I control A and delete.
Oh, all right.
Well, okay.
So the original article here is from the verge.com.
And in a nutshell,
every month the security team at Google
releases a new set of patches for Android.
And every month carriers and manufacturers
struggle to get them installed on the actual phones
that people are actually using,
making that effort,
seeing like, well, like James's effort
on the WAN Show doc.
Wasted.
So confidential contracts obtained by the Verge
show that many manufacturers
now have explicit obligations related to updates.
So this is Google trying to close in on the Apple lead.
Cause that's a really important part that our place,
that Apple still has an advantage.
We didn't explicitly cover that in the latest,
why iPhones are awesome video.
We did talk about updates.
Yeah, we talked about updates and we talked about security,
but we didn't specifically talk about security updates.
And the scheduling.
And the scheduling.
And the advantages that they have here.
So this is sweet.
Do you think it's gonna work?
Well, they're requiring them to regularly install updates
for any popular phone or tablet for at least two years.
They must provide at least four security updates
within one year of the phone's launch.
The security updates are mandated
within the second year as well,
but without a specified minimum number of releases.
And then these terms cover any device launched
after January 31st, 2018,
that's been activated by more than 100,000 users.
So that's your definition of popular, 100,000 users.
So I've talked about this a fair bit in the past
where you might encounter like a really cool device
of some sort, like a phone that's got
like a really neat accessory.
I think the ROG gaming phone is gonna be a great example
of something like this where it's really cool.
It's got some features that are truly standalone
in the market.
Like it's got a 90 Hertz OLED display.
It's what you wanted the Razer Phone to be.
Yeah, pretty much.
The first one.
Yeah.
Well, neither of them are quite what I wanted
the first Razer Phone to be
because I wanted it to have a good camera.
And neither of them are good enough, quite frankly.
So I think the ROG Phone is a great example of this.
It's got really cool accessories.
Have you seen the dual screen one?
Yeah.
Okay, so we have a video coming.
We actually got our hands on all of the accessories
for the ROG Phone.
So we've got the game controller that clips onto the sides.
We've got the dual screen.
So it comes with a 6,000 milliamp hour battery in it.
It's got like a kind of an ergonomic handle,
like controller handle for it.
And then it's got a second screen in the bottom,
kind of DS style that you can actually run apps
independently on, which tripped me out.
So our thumbnail, I think we were gonna do,
for the thumbnail and title, we were gonna do,
we got every ROG Phone accessory, you know, thumbnail face.
But I think what we're gonna go with is
this phone runs two games at once.
Yeah.
Yeah, Jake was telling me he had two separate games
running at the same time.
Yeah, and actually, man, not bad.
Depending on the games, that actually could be practical.
If you're playing something turn-based
or something with waiting times,
you could play like a hand of poker while you're also,
I don't know, playing Pokemon Go or some crap.
Okay, yeah, I guess I could get into that.
I mean, but the use case that we show isn't a very good one.
We have PUBG running on the top
and Minecraft on the bottom.
Oh, no, PUBG and Fortnite would have been funny.
So at one point in the video, I'm playing the top screen
and like Jake's got his hands in like in here,
like playing the bottom screen.
We're just like looking at each other, this is ridiculous.
That's the best phone when you got two kids.
Yeah, yeah, so they can vote, they can vote.
If you two don't learn to share,
then I'm gonna make you both share the same one forever.
There it is.
So anyway, back to what I was saying.
Even if you find a device
that has like a really cool feature that you like,
you can end up having a bad experience
almost no matter what you do,
because until you reach a certain threshold,
which is apparently 100,000 users,
even if you buy something like really expensive,
like a red hydrogen one would be a great example of this.
It's $1,500 phone for the titanium version.
The manufacturer can only afford to support
that which is popular, that which sells well.
And you might think, well, I paid $1,500 for this phone.
They should be able to support it.
But the issue is that even if they were making $500 a phone
versus $300 a phone that someone like Samsung was making,
if they're only selling 1,000 units
and Samsung is selling 100,000 units,
and these are all completely hypothetical numbers,
1,000 units times 500 bucks is still only,
what is that?
$500,000.
The math checks out.
Yeah, you can't have a team of engineers
working on this product for two years after the release,
continuing to provide updates for that kind of a budget.
The numbers just don't work out.
And this is why in the past, I would always say,
when you're shopping for a motherboard,
don't shop for the best motherboard,
shop for the most popular motherboard,
because that's the one that A,
they're gonna have the budget
in order to provide support to,
and B, that's the one where they're gonna have
the loudest number of users squawking at them
if they don't do it properly.
So there's gonna be a lot of pressure on them.
Whereas like, it's a funny thing.
Like I remember back in the days of Quad SLI,
when Nvidia launched the 7950 GX2,
I think is what the card was called,
but it was like this bizarre,
like I know this is pre your gaming enthusiasm days,
probably.
PC gaming.
You remember this?
Sure.
So it was this bizarre card,
because it had a big PCB,
and then it had like a second one,
and then it had like a cooler on each one of them.
So one of the GPUs was like sandwiched
right between the other PCB,
and it was only a dual slot card.
Like it was really, you know what,
I should probably just bring up a picture
for everyone here.
Can you tell us?
Yeah.
7950 GX2.
Here, I'll bring up my screen here.
Like this is a really weird card.
Look at this thing.
See that?
So you've got your main PCB that plugs into the slot,
and then you've got this second daughter board
that had all the IO on it.
And see this cooler here?
It actually had the same cooler under here.
Oh, I see.
So it was completely suffocated.
Check this out.
Check this out.
And then power only came in on this one,
and was passed through.
I don't remember how they did it or whatever.
Like it was, it was a weird card.
Anyway, there was a use case for this card.
Four-way SLI.
This was the first time you could run four GPUs in SLI
for, actually I don't think Voodoo ever did that.
So this was the first time you could run four GPUs in SLI.
And the experience was terrible,
because the weird thing is,
and I'm not singling out NVIDIA here.
The weird thing is companies seem to feel like
these customers that are giving them $1,500 in this case
was I think about what a couple of those would cost you.
That the customer's giving them these huge amounts of money.
Well, they must be just such fanatics
that even if we don't update this
and support this properly,
they're gonna keep coming back
and giving us money anyway, so whatever.
Whereas the mainstream user,
the one that really thinks about value for their dollar
and goes out and buys a GTX 1063 gig or an RX 570
or whatever the case may be,
that customer I feel like is more value sensitive
and therefore will complain much louder
if it doesn't get supported properly.
Does that kind of make sense?
Well, I wonder if these people,
these adopters of the high end stuff like this,
do you think they're mostly the type
who aren't gonna be using this stuff for a really long time
because they're gonna get the latest
and greatest every cycle?
Or do you think that they have the mindset of
I'm spending a lot now
and this is gonna last me a long time?
You would just say it's 50-50, 80-20?
I would say that from working at NCIX,
my experience was probably closer to like 95-5.
Like the guys that are buying the high end,
the really high end stuff, it's toys for boys.
Whereas there's a 5% of them that go,
you know what?
I just don't wanna replace my computer very often,
so I'm just gonna get the best thing now.
But the reality of it is if you, especially then,
like back when I was working in the computer store,
I was like 10 years ago or whatever,
especially then, it was a terrible, terrible idea
to buy the highest end thing now
and hope that it would be future proof.
These days, I would actually make the argument
it's not nearly as bad.
Like if you went out and you bought yourself a 5960X,
so that was an extreme edition like three years ago,
that was an eight core processor.
Okay, we have now just now gotten to the point
where the mainstream is getting an eight core processor.
You effectively, and yeah, they're much higher clocked
and all that stuff.
Like you don't expect it to run exactly
like the brand new one, but you're still hanging in there.
Whereas if you bought yourself at that time,
a would have been like a 4770,
you are now getting to the point
where there are going to be games right around the corner
that are gonna want more than four cores.
So yeah, that person who spent more might get another year
or two out of their system.
Does that kind of make sense?
Sure.
So you think then, so what you described a second ago
where it's 955, then that is an incentive
for companies to support the most popular
and not the most expensive.
But okay, going back to the phones though,
the original thing.
Right, the actual topic.
So look, you're supposed to do news.
Here's the thing though, the chain is longer
than just the provider of the software,
in this case, Google, and then the OEM.
There's the carriers as well,
and they don't talk about the carriers here.
And with Android phones,
the carriers can put in their own special sauce.
So a new Android comes out,
then the OEM augments it to their liking,
then the carrier puts their own special carrier apps on it,
and that takes like two to three weeks at best.
What happens when these OEMs are obligated to do
four security updates a year,
the last one that comes out for that year
gets delayed because the carrier
has to spend a month working on it,
reaches the contract with Google,
and then they get reprimanded.
Like what's gonna happen?
It looks like what could happen
is if they fail to keep the devices updated,
Google could withhold approval for new devices.
So they could like play the game
where they could be like,
okay, we know what we're,
we're really busy working on something right now.
We don't have anything new to launch at the moment,
so we can fall behind,
and then we'll like get it dealt with later
when we need to release something.
But I think the big thing for me
is I have yet to see any evidence
that Google has the stones to back this up,
because they're still allowing carrier nonsense
that as far as I can tell, Apple shut down ages ago.
That's correct.
Like there's, I think you just cited one from LG,
but there's, or from a carrier,
but there's AT&T, like OneDrive type stuff.
AT&T has so much junk on their phones.
So does Verizon, but they're not on Apple phones at all.
Yeah. At all.
So do you think that if it becomes a problem
where the carriers are the limiting factor here
that are making the OEMs late
with the contractually obligated updates,
then maybe Google or those OEMs
will just crack down and be like,
there's no more carrier app baloney at all.
We're not doing it.
I don't know how they'd pull it off,
because the thing is that a lot of,
like it's all about positioning, right?
The reason Apple can get away with it
is because the iPhone is a top tier device.
So the carrier is not expected to, you know,
sell it for $0 on contract
and then subsidize it with like cloud storage
and like a TV subscription and an NBA subscription
and all that kind of crap,
all that kind of add on stuff that they can use
to subsidize the cost of that hardware in the first place.
Plus there's competition,
because if you're an Android device,
if you're the V30, they're like,
well, we don't like your terms,
we're just gonna have the P20.
See ya.
Yeah, just another flagship Android.
Yep.
So I think that Apple's in a fairly unique position there,
but I do also think that carriers like Samsung
should be in a position
where we shouldn't have to deal with that anymore.
So I'd like to see them push back harder.
Like one thing that has really irked me about Samsung
over the last couple of generations,
I actually don't know if the Note 9 did it,
I'd have to put in a different SIM to find out,
but immediately when you put in a SIM,
it comes unlocked and you put in a SIM
and it locks to that carrier.
Oh, that's weak.
Which to me is completely unacceptable.
That's weak, dude.
You know what I learned today?
Yeah.
You know, Samsung has the greatest market share,
obviously globally, but even in North America,
they have like 35%.
There's more people in North America with Samsungs
than iPhones, but today I learned that in China,
their penetration is only like 5%.
That's interesting.
In China, it's all Chinese phones.
Isn't that crazy?
The thing that really baffles me is that,
especially a couple generations ago,
the cameras on the non-Chinese phones
were so night and day better than the Chinese ones
that it just, like I couldn't figure out
why the demand didn't overcome whether,
like I, and forgive me,
because I'm speaking out of ignorance here.
I don't know if it's nationalism.
I don't know if it's import tariffs.
I don't know if it's other governmental restrictions.
I don't know what the factors are,
why they only use Chinese phones,
but you'd think the demand for better
might have outstripped whatever those other factors were
and people would have been able to go,
oh, wow, this is like very obviously way better.
Because I mean, there weren't even huge cost differences
in many cases, especially with the flagship Chinese phones.
Weren't they subsidized?
See that, I don't know.
So maybe there was a huge cost difference.
I do know, though, that some of the flagships now
are really priced about like South Korean
or North American flagships.
I mean, of course, they're all made in China anyway,
but I mean like where they were designed.
Designed by Apple in California.
So last week, you guys, well, I wrote it in the notes.
I don't know if you talked about it,
but we learned that because of our GPDR in Europe,
GPDR, GPDR, GRD.
The thing with all the notifications
on all your favorite websites.
So Google was found to be illegally acting monopolistically.
He's leaving.
I'm talking to you, I'm talking to everyone,
but I'm also talking to you, you know.
I'm listening.
So Google had to unbundle.
It used to be the case that even though
Android is open source, the, what was it, the Play Store?
Google Chrome, Chrome and Google search
always had to come on the phone and there was all bundled
and that was illegal.
So then they ordered them to pay a big fine
and now they have to give options to OEMs.
Yeah.
And so a device gets subsidized by the fact
that Chrome is on there
because there's advertising revenue.
But then now if you're gonna be able to get an Android phone
that doesn't have Chrome on it,
then Google still has to make that money.
So they're just charging a licensing fee,
but we didn't know how much it costs.
And now we know how much it costs.
And what's interesting is this kind of gives us an idea
of how much money Google expects to make
off the Play Store, off Chrome and off Google search.
Well, I think that this,
the fees here would be slightly higher
than what they made off of that.
I think so too, because I'd be, I'd be given,
I'd be given the EU, the old, you know, I'd be okay.
Maybe not the old FU, but I'd be trying to create pressure.
I'd be trying to say, look.
Yeah.
The way you had it was pretty good.
So you don't like it?
Okay, here's something worse.
Exactly. Enjoy.
You've got options now,
but there's a clear incentive to go for.
So just go back to the old way.
Yeah, exactly.
So what we found out is that it could cost
up to $40 per device.
Sorry, 40 bucks a device?
That's how much the iPhone, Apple was paying
for the Samsung.
Hold on a minute.
OLEDs.
Consider, consider this, you guys.
The bomb cost of like an iPhone XS is what's.
Bomb means bill of materials.
Yeah, the bare hardware cost of something
like an iPhone XS or like a Note 9 is somewhere
in the neighborhood of usually what?
Around 250 to 350 bucks?
That's all right.
We actually had all those figures in one of our
why are you buying this?
Did we have them?
Okay.
The point is they are like a third,
like a quarter of the final sale price
because there's a lot of costs associated
with bringing something to market,
including whether you like it or not.
Things like advertising that do factor
into the final price of the phone.
So adding $40 just right there upfront.
$40 has the potential to increase your phone's cost
somewhere in the neighborhood of like 20%.
Huh?
Sorry, I'll let you continue.
Okay, so how much they cost depends on the country
in the EU and the type of device.
So EU countries are divided into three tiers.
With the highest countries,
the highest fees come from the UK, Sweden,
Germany, Norway, and Netherlands.
And in those countries, the devices
with higher pixel densities pay more.
So if you've got a pixel density higher than 500 PPI,
then you gotta pay the $40 fee.
And phones that have PPIs like that are pixels per inch,
include Pixels 2 and 3 XL and the S9, S9 Plus.
Interesting.
Then the next tier down is 400 to 500 pixels per inch,
and they have to be 20 bucks in those countries.
Yeah.
And that's the Pixel 3, the small one.
And interestingly, all the iPhone 10s,
the 10, the 10s, the 10s Max,
I'm surprised that all those iPhones
have lower pixel densities than the Pixel 2 XL even.
The new iPhone 10s has a lower pixel density
than the Pixel 2.
I mean, Apple went straight to Retina
and then just completely backed off.
They were like, yep, no, this is good enough.
Wow.
And frankly, I agree with them.
Wow.
Because you can't tell,
looking at an iPhone 10s or 10s Max,
that it has lower pixel density
than a Note 9 or an S9 Plus, you cannot tell.
Well, that's what Retina is.
Because that's exactly the point.
So then the next tier is under 400 pixels per inch
to where you only pay $10 in those expensive countries
and the iPhone 10R fits into that category.
But then in some other countries
where they're not the high paying countries,
the fee can be as little as $2.50 per device,
like a budget phone in India.
So I wonder if this really gives us some insight
into how much Google expects that given user
to contribute directly to their bottom line,
or if it's just kind of an FU
and $2.50 is closer to what they would expect to make.
No, I think that the fees are geared toward
increasing Android's penetration in those markets.
So I think that the user in India,
they just want their devices in India.
So they're just,
and maybe they're saturated in UK and Netherlands.
Right, so maybe they just don't really care at that point.
I'd really like to know.
I mean, can you imagine,
like let's kind of like imagination craft for a second here.
Can you imagine if this had happened
back when Microsoft was still in the game with Windows Phone?
Because that was one of Microsoft's big disadvantages
is they were charging for the operating system.
Well, now Google is being put in the position
where they have to charge for the operating system.
It levels the playing field
because Apple has to charge for the operating system.
You have to cover your costs somehow.
So you either cover your costs through advertising
and subsidies through your marketplace
or your Play Store or App Store, whatever you want to call it
or you charge for it by charging for it.
You have to pay software developers.
They aren't free.
Tech Deals sent a super chat here.
He's like, free software isn't free.
Fill net 11.
I'm like, yeah, exactly.
What I think is really interesting
is the fact that Android's open source,
when we kind of feel entitled
to things that should come with Android,
like the Play Store,
you think that's an integral part of Android,
but it's not.
It's a Google service,
just like Chrome and search and maps and all that.
And that's what we found out with this unbundling.
Haza Gamers says, first super chat,
please, please turn up the streaming volume.
I turned it up.
I don't know if it helped.
Is that better?
Rip.
I'll bump it a little more.
Oh, goodness.
Yeah, hopefully that's a little better.
Oh, Lord.
Any more?
SCs?
Oh, tech support Josh says,
why don't we have LTD limited edition sandals?
I really want them.
It'll, you know what?
Yeah, I'm committing it right now.
We're gonna make it happen, guys.
It'll happen at some point,
but it's not an insignificant amount of work.
Like it's really gonna be a lot of work.
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All right.
Should we do another topic?
Maybe one more topic and then we'll just BS for another,
you know, 15, 20 minutes and call that good.
What do you think?
What's the most important?
Most important?
Oh, Mutex.
That's our headline topic.
It's like right in the thumbnail.
We have to do it.
Okay, Dan.
So this was posted by RSTmail on the forum
and basically the EU's new copyright directive
known as Article 13.
A lot of people were criticizing
the episode of Tech Links this week
where I was raging out about this saying,
too little, too late, you guys.
You should have covered it before.
And I'm kind of sitting here going,
well, I didn't think this was gonna go through.
And we have had coverage on this over quite some time.
And also as if it matters, we're not even in the EU.
Well, I mean, it's gonna affect us.
So let's talk about our-
No, no, no.
I just mean like how much sway, like,
oh, are we that important?
No, we're not.
But at least we can try to make some noise now
because even though-
Is that $300?
It has passed the first vote.
I should hope not.
No, it's 300 whatever A is.
A, that's not Australian, is it?
That would probably be like AUS.
I don't know.
It doesn't.
Yeah, I think it's AU for us.
So there's no real new news.
The only new news about this is that
the YouTube CEO published a blog post, an open letter,
just talking about how it's gonna affect their service
and how dramatic the changes could be
should this continue.
So just as an update on the situation,
the first round of voting has come and gone and it passed.
And I don't believe that they have ever had something fail
to pass at the second round of voting
that did pass the first round.
So we are really on the verge of making platforms
responsible, not just responsible, but also liable
for the content that is on their websites
to put this in context.
Now it does specify that it's major platforms
or whatever the case may be.
But there's major platforms are kind of important.
It's probably quantified.
I don't know exactly how they're quantifying it
but I still think it's important
because the flow plan is pretty major.
I mean, pretty big deal.
This has the potential to impact
even something like linustechtips.com forum.
Like it was a number of years ago now,
but there are things that already work like this.
So back when we were still using AdSense
for linustechtips.com,
not that it ever made a ton of money or anything.
So it wasn't a big deal,
but we had a poster desktop wallpaper thread
that was like many, many dozens and dozens.
I think it was hundreds of pages long.
Like, cause everyone would just post
their desktop wallpapers.
And some people's desktop wallpapers are their home,
not their work desktop,
because they wouldn't be safe for work.
And so we ended up with some pretty racy images
on the forum.
And quite frankly, like post your desktop wallpaper threads
are the kind of thing that doesn't typically
get moderated very actively.
So what happened was we ended up with some content
on the website that Google deemed to be contrary
to their restrictions for Google AdSense,
and they cut us off.
And they said, you guys need to get your site back in line
before we will turn it back on.
And you guys are responsible for scouring your website
and making sure there's nothing on it.
And we kind of went,
we have literally thousands of posts a day
of user-generated content.
Like this is not feasible to actually filter
through every freaking post and make sure
that we don't have any hate speech or any nudity
or any graphic violence or whatever the case may be.
Like we do our best,
but we rely on our community to flag things.
And a lot of the time the community will go like,
ah, that's not a big deal.
And Google will go, whoa, holy crap, that's terrible.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's unlikely
that something like Linus Tech Tips forum
would actually be affected by article 13.
Cause it's pretty small fish.
And so would something like float plane B.
But the problem is that everything's small,
if it's good, will grow.
And this situation where the platform
has to be responsible,
ultimately we got our AdSense revoked
and we never got it back
in case you guys are wondering how that story ends.
This situation is ultimately untenable
because with the amount of user-generated content
that someone like a YouTube or a Facebook
or even linustechtips.com forum is receiving,
you would have to hire so many staff
just to sit with like their eyeballs,
their eyelids stapled to the tops and bottoms of their eyes,
staring at their screens, watching it come in.
The number of people you'd have to pay to do that
would be unmanageable.
You would never be able to have an online platform
that can just accept any user uploaded content willy-nilly.
That's what I'm trying to say is that
even though we might not be affected by this
in terms of the platforms that we run,
we have been in this situation and it's not feasible.
So.
The quote from this blog post.
Yes.
She says, it would be too risky for platforms
to host content from smaller original content creators
because the platform would now be directly liable
for that content.
The proposal could force platforms like YouTube
to allow only content from a small number
of large companies.
So basically what she's saying and.
So you're basically going back to cable.
She clarifies things further later.
Like I think she's saying like there's possibilities
that they could prevent EU users
from accessing non-EU content or they could prevent,
like there's ways that maybe they could geofence it
or whatever the case may be.
But ultimately, yeah.
It's like going back to the stone age.
Like we've had YouTube the way it is.
User generated content, video content.
Like it's amazing for over 10 years now.
And to go back to not being able to just
have anyone upload any stupid dog video
and maybe go viral and maybe make a couple thousand bucks
or whatever, like to take away that.
Or upload a video of them reviewing a laptop
in their kitchen then maybe one day employ 22 people and.
So that's something that really upsets me
is that there's a lot more to YouTube now
than just the user generated content even.
Because we, I sincerely doubt would be big enough
to qualify as a small number of large companies.
There's just no way.
Like they couldn't possibly manage everyone our size
on the platform.
I don't think it makes any sense.
Because remember guys, we're not like monitoring video
content is not the same as even something like a forum
where you can kind of skim images.
Yeah, it looks fine.
You have to watch the video.
It's nuts.
You can't really just depend on the machines to do this.
And you can't, there's no way.
Even Google is basically admitting we can't do it.
And if they can't do it,
I don't think anyone else is in a position to go
say with a hundred percent confidence
that they'd be comfortable with it.
So this could affect us in a huge way.
And it's not just me personally.
But the YouTube ecosystem props up hundreds, thousands,
tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands
of people's actual livelihoods now.
Like it's not just the indie YouTubers
who have managed to go independent
and managed to support themselves.
But there are reasonable sized enterprises.
Like again, so we employ between Linus Media Group
and Floatplane 26 or 27 people.
Like it's at the point now where I've lost track,
which is really cool, but also really scary.
Because if all of a sudden we were cut off
from our European viewership,
that could significantly impact us.
Like we've taken a very conservative approach
to growing our business
and we've kept our costs under control.
My commitment to you right now, James,
is even if all of our European viewership
goes away tomorrow night, your job will be safe.
And so will everyone's here.
But other people might be riding the razor's edge
a little tighter.
Or they might be in a really vulnerable state right now
where maybe I think a great example would be TechDeals.
TechDeals is one of the guys on Floatplane right now.
He sent a Super Chat earlier.
So TechDeals just obtained a new studio space.
What if he took a 20% hit to his income right now?
Yeah, his most vulnerable time.
At his most vulnerable time.
Like this was ultimately why Linus Media Group
went on vessel.
Because we had just obtained a new space,
just hired some people, we were looking to expand
and then, it was YouTube that time,
but YouTube released this memo saying
that we weren't gonna be able to monetize our videos
through third parties the way that we'd been doing up
till then we were like, holy crap,
are they just gonna like rip all our videos down?
What are we gonna do?
And I think there's gonna be a lot of people
panicking like this.
So should we be freaking out?
Yes.
And then there's all these other applications
like we just had a municipal election in Vancouver
or in the whole region.
What about all those random city councilor people
who just wanted to tell the constituents
their little platform?
Boom, it goes on YouTube.
Where are they gonna put that?
Squarespace.
Like YouTube is actually kind of a public service
in a lot of ways.
And there's things that obviously we can see about it
that are clearly not public service type things
like the way that they moderate the content
or the way that Adpocalypse affected some people
disproportionately compared to others.
But it does still have a role in that space
and it would be a huge loss to not have it anymore.
I mean, you look too at the way that protesters
or activists can use YouTube to get a message out.
So.
That's where I was going.
This is really, really important.
And I mean, like I said,
I hadn't taken it seriously enough before
because I just thought that people were gonna realize
that this is obviously not sustainable
and can it at some point.
I guess we didn't get there.
Well, what about the argument that it's maybe
if you think of the worst ways
these laws can be interpreted,
it would just totally ruin the internet.
But then if they actually just go ahead
with a kind of a light touch, then it won't be that bad.
The issue though is that it's a question of liability.
So platforms are already responsible for the content
that users post on them.
That's the whole point of DMCA,
where if there's a copyright infringement,
you are responsible for having a way
to get in touch with you
and having someone review those requests in a timely manner
and then removing the content.
That's the way it works now.
And I understand that there are problems with that
because you end up with a lot of copyrighted content
that just never gets pulled down
because you don't have enough manpower
to go through all these videos.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Yes.
Whereas this new way is just gonna kind of assume
that everyone's a filthy pirate
and is uploading copyrighted material
until they prove that they didn't
by becoming a large company.
So are you going to New York this weekend?
Yeah.
When are you going?
I don't remember exactly.
This is like a hybrid between a news topic
and just like, what do you do it?
I don't know.
Because there's a,
Linus is going to the OnePlus 6T event in New York,
which is on Monday.
This is funny.
And it's only on Monday because Apple decided
we should probably have a second event
because no one cared about our stuff.
And then they scheduled their second event
for the same day OnePlus was scheduled.
The OnePlus is just bumping today earlier.
This is exactly, and I blame Apple for this.
This is exactly why I've gotten so annoyed
with this trend where every company needs
to have their own little song and dance
and stage and music and blah, blah, blah
every time they launch a stupid product.
And to be clear,
I'm not saying the products are always stupid.
Sometimes they're amazing,
but it's frustrating because it used to be
that you could go to one place
and you could see all the announcements
or at least a handful of places.
As long as you hit like Computex,
Cebit, CES, and like, you know,
maybe, I don't know, Gamescom.
What's the big game, North America, E3.
Yeah, like as long as you hit kind of the main big ones
and then maybe a couple smaller niche ones.
And then Apple was different.
What's the film industry one?
I don't know.
But you talk about the graph graphics or?
No.
SIGGRAPH, I'm taking a SIGGRAPH.
Not SIGGRAPH.
Regardless, Apple was thinking differently
and then they pioneered the whole like
we're gonna have our own keynote thing.
NAB, NAB.
Yeah.
And it worked.
And it worked.
And then all the me too companies were like,
hey, we have flagships that are competitive.
I mean, now even Intel's doing it.
They launch a CPU.
They've got an event in New York
and everybody's got to jet into New York
and we're gonna talk about our CPU in New York.
And it's like, ah.
It's kind of cool, but there's just too many companies.
And then people like. Yes.
If it was a handful of times a year, I love New York.
Cool city.
I don't need to go there half a dozen times
in the calendar year, just to see whatever.
Or if the event's in China.
Yeah, or if the event's in China.
Which I have done before.
You've got Samsung, Microsoft, OnePlus, Apple,
Nvidia.
Intel.
Like there's six companies.
If each of those six companies
launches two products a year,
you are traveling at least once a month.
And the thing about these trips and these events
is that they're structured in such a way that actually
what you're gonna see for my OnePlus video,
I love the way that they've done it.
So to be clear, a lot of this ranting
is not necessarily directed at OnePlus.
But if each of them launches just two products a year,
you're traveling once a month.
And the problem with these events
is that the way that they're structured
is such that you don't really get any useful insight
into the product that you couldn't have gotten
from just like.
Watching the Verge's recap.
Yeah, watching the hashtag on Twitter.
Yeah.
And then kind of looking at some of the commentary.
Yeah, okay, I've got the gist of it.
And that takes 20 minutes.
Whereas getting in a plane, flying somewhere,
waiting in line, sitting in the auditorium,
playing with your like goofy bracelet
that flashes every time Samsung employees
say something amazing or whatever.
It's very time consuming.
And I have a life.
And then you gotta do the coverage on the show floor
where the audio sucks.
It's stressful, the audio sucks, the video sucks,
the internet connection sucks, there's people all around,
some of them smell.
Not that I'm generalizing about the tech industry,
but like a disproportionate number of them smell.
I don't know, man, it's just, it's rough.
And I'm not, to be clear,
I have the greatest job in the world.
I will, I would never complain about my job.
It's just that there are frustrating things
that I feel could be done better.
It's constructive criticism, take it that way.
Do you think that OnePlus benefits
from the fact that Apple bumped them?
Cause now they got another wave of media
and a whole bunch of articles about them.
I have no idea.
I don't know if it makes it better or worse.
Do you think that Apple always planned to have two events?
Yes.
I think that Apple probably plans their events
a year in advance.
We should do a couple of super chats before we go here.
Okay.
Oh wow, there's so many of them.
I don't know if I will get to them all.
Sir David, will the EU ruling affect Twitch?
I would think so.
In fact, I could see it affecting Twitch more
than someone like you two.
But it's streaming, that's really weird.
Yeah, it's impossible.
It's like actually impossible.
Well, would the streamers have to agree
to a terms of service that,
well, I'm sure they already do obviously,
but a different one.
The liability would pass through to them or something?
I have no idea.
Or like just promise you won't swear.
Right, I never finished that thought before.
The issue is the liability.
The issue is that even if it's a light touch
enforcement of it, if the platform is liable
versus just being able to respond to DMCA take downs
and go, okay, we did our job.
Then if someone like Disney,
okay, let's take a litigious company like Disney,
were to go, okay, the damages of that movie rip
being up there for 48 hours were a billion dollars.
All of a sudden YouTube's on the hook for that
and Disney can go after them directly.
It's a big problem.
Well, I guess unless the judge was like,
look, it looks like they did their best.
Yeah, but then-
But you don't want the law to be-
Do you take that risk?
Yeah.
Do you leave it up to the judge?
I wouldn't.
I'd be like, nope, nope, forget it.
Fina, shout out from France.
Hi.
What's up?
Schkneka says newsflash line is people smell.
Here's some money for a good air freshener.
I can't carry an air freshener around with me.
Daniel says testing to see what letters show up for Aussies.
It is A, that was 300 Australian dollars,
which I think is about equivalent to Canadian rupees.
Holy crap.
Wow.
Thank you.
Did you even read out the $300 one?
I'm getting to it.
I'm getting to it.
Nikolai says, Super Chat number six,
come back after the stream and check out Linus's serious face
during the EU YouTube talk.
That's a serious Linus.
Yeah, the eyeliner actually helps a little bit, I think.
Does it make me look more serious?
I don't know.
No?
I don't know.
Does it make me look more like a magician?
Definitely.
It kind of just makes you look like a worn out rock star.
Like when you see like Robert Plant when he's 50
and just haggard like, ooh, stop.
Make your Wikipedia picture an old one.
I don't want to see you like this.
Paul says, here's a pound.
Thanks, Paul.
Taco Preacher says, here's a hundred Mexican pesos.
Thank you.
Taco Preacher.
I didn't even catch that.
Tech Support Josh, contact me, I have some ideas.
That's very vague.
I probably, okay.
The kinds of ideas that I've gotten
from people on the internet,
you'll have to forgive me, Josh.
But I probably, I probably won't be Jack.
Jamie says, so if Article 13 rolls around,
do you fancy a British migrant?
Only if you can get a work permit
and your skills happen to align perfectly
with what we're looking for at that time.
We're not hiring right now.
Brian says, love hearing your insight
about what affects pricing in the tech industry.
Yeah.
I like British accents, so we should have more here.
Or Irish.
How much more credible would I sound with a British accent?
10X?
Yeah, I think so.
DSPD says, are you gonna release
the new LTT logo shirts in the store?
Okay, yes, at some point, we really want to.
They've been done for ages.
We're like, we're revamping the store completely.
Kyranio says, here's some European euros
for the European talk.
Hope this doesn't make it
so I can't watch you guys anymore.
Me too.
Oh, goodness.
Okay, so this is the 300 Australian dollars.
Really?
High Density Potato paid $300 to send this message.
High Density Potato.
Really wish I could watch the WAN show
from LNG's amphibious aircraft.
Here's $300 minus the 30% streaming tax
towards making it a reality.
So is that the deal?
Have we now entered into a verbal contract
where I have to buy an amphibious aircraft with it?
Oh, FlowPlane.
Wait, you didn't get that?
Oh, because FlowPlane doesn't do WAN shows streaming.
Okay, yes, we will get that working at some point.
We're actually closer than you probably think.
Amphibious aircraft.
Why is that something that someone would want?
I thought you meant that I would stream from,
well, image quality is better on FlowPlane.
We could stream at higher bit rate.
Okay.
Once we have it working, we should be able to do it.
So. Is that it?
That's one reason.
That's it for the WAN show.
Oh, I meant, is that the only reason?
But, okay.
Bye-bye.
Is there anything that you're particularly upset
that we didn't cover?
Nope.
Topic sucks.
Suck this week.
Whose fault is that?
The world.
Nope, you're gone.
Actually, they can hang.
You know, when's the last time we did a roll together?
You and I have all done it.
Yeah, I don't think so.
We haven't even done that thing.
I don't think we've done like one or two.
Ever?
Yeah, we've done like.
No.
It would have all been like right around the time
that we first touched the period.
I got such a kick out of the way
that you kind of like snuck into videos,
even though you weren't finished your probation yet.
You got a kick out of that?
Totally again.
Well, you know, it was cute.
You gave me a shit for it.
Yeah, I know.
Yeah, well, there's what.
I mean, it's like parents, right?
Like they might yell at you about something,
but then like when you're not looking
or like when Yvonne's giving one of the kids
heck for something and their attention
is completely focused on her,
I can be like, aw.
Well, what I did.
Cause it's like really cute or whatever.
What happened was other people would need help
and they would ask me like Brandon or Max or whatever,
like, can you, would you like to?
And I wouldn't say no.
I wouldn't be like, oh, I'm not allowed.
I'd be like, sure guys.