Welcome to the WAN Show, ladies and gentlemen, we've got a fantastic show for you guys today,
but unfortunately that's really as long as I can maintain that upbeat kind of tone of
voice because I am furious.
Kind of upset.
I'm pretty angry and I want to get into it in full detail later, but the long short version
is that YouTube disabled the dislike counter on the platform, so some people have got it
rolled out already, some people are still seeing dislike counts, but they are all going
to be gone within days is my understanding, and this has an enormous impact on the usability
of the platform for certain users that in my opinion doesn't outweigh the benefits for
other users, but certainly makes it so that we should probably at least consider other
options rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater here.
In other news, AMD has some huge data center tech incoming, this is really freaking exciting
because they just continue to make everyone else look like clowns, which is, which is
great.
What else we got pinch to zoom is forbidden in the court of law, stop doing it.
What?
Okay.
Oh wow.
Okay.
Uh, okay.
Good.
I like this second note here about this topic.
What else we got?
Oh, sweet.
Maybe we should just get that one.
Also Microsoft releases S E products.
It might also mean still edge.
Okay, let's go ahead and roll that.
This topics are great.
And the show is brought to you today by pebble host, fresh books and see Sonic.
All right, I want to start by justifying YouTube's removal of the dislike counter.
So to be clear, they are not removing the dislike button.
You can still indicate to the creator of the video, whether you liked, which will show
publicly or whether you disliked, which will show only in the creator's dashboard, that
particular piece of content.
And the thing about a dislike is that it doesn't provide any kind of constructive feedback.
All it does is pretty much blow a raspberry at the creator of that video and say, I just
liked it.
It definitely serves no purpose other than to share whatever negative feelings you have.
And in some cases that can be a harmful and destructive force.
So one of the big reasons that Google has provided for actually here, we've got the
YouTube blog post where they provided their rationale.
One of the main reasons that YouTube provided for making this change was that it would be
a way to make the platform more inclusive and promote respectful interactions between
viewers and creators.
Their goal is also to reduce dislike attacks where communities will actually work together
to drive up the number of dislikes on a creator's video.
So their justification for moving ahead with this particular change is that they actually
did a lot of experimentation.
This is something that to my knowledge, they've been working on for the better part of a year,
at least rolling it out as a kind of a test across a wide variety of different user groups
and evaluating whether it changes the way that users interact with video content.
And ultimately, from what I understand so far, YouTube's data suggests that there is
no discernible change or maybe even a positive discernible change to user behavior as a result
of removing this particular indicator.
Because now you can't tell if the video is bad until you watch the whole thing.
Luke, hold on, we're playing devil's advocate right now, you have to stop.
You are.
Well, I thought that we were on a wavelength here.
I thought, okay, so wow.
Where do we start?
I just hate all of it.
So anywhere.
Well, okay.
Okay.
First, no, I'm not done playing devil's advocate.
I need to do a little bit more devil's advocate because the devil needs an advocate.
That's for sure.
I mean, look who the devil's up against.
Jesus walks on water.
That's huge.
God literally creates a world in six days.
That's pretty good.
And then chills in the hammock.
Yeah.
Nice.
Devil, what can the devil do?
Nothing.
Weak.
Exactly.
What, turn into a snake?
Needs a lot of advocate.
Lame.
Lame.
Oh, I'm a snake.
Go eat an apple, bro.
Yeah, exactly.
What if they didn't eat the apple?
Then what?
They'd be useless.
Exactly.
Terrible.
It's like terrible.
B to C tier Smash Bros character.
I heard it here first.
I'm now the devil's advocate.
Okay.
So there are smaller creators out there that are applauding this change and no, okay.
There is, there is no, there is a justification, but see, we can't, that's the fundamental
problem right now in the world is that people are not willing to see someone else's point
of view.
I did stop you from talking and keep going, bro.
People are not willing to put themselves in someone else's shoes and try to try to see
it from their perspective.
So yes, there are smaller creators out there that to a far greater extent than established
ones like me do suffer from these kinds of negativity bombs on their content.
It's just going to move to comments.
So, and that's fair.
The justification here though, is that for the smaller creators who are disproportionately
affected by dislike bombing, comments are relatively simple to moderate.
Okay, okay.
Now let's start to break it down.
Comment moderation tools on YouTube.
I wish I had my bleep button because they are terrible.
The automated moderation is beyond useless.
And even the manual moderation tools I requested over a year ago, okay.
In my mobile creator studio app on a comment, I can report spam or I can remove all comments
from this user from my channel.
But for some reason I can't do both at the same time.
Why would that be?
Reporting spam should automatically give you an option to remove all the comments.
Of course it should.
Yeah.
Of course it should.
Yeah.
Because what I want to do is I want to remove all their crap from my channel because they're
clearly posting unwanted commercial content.
And what I would also like to do is mark it as spam so that I can contribute to the greater
community's knowledge that this user is garbage and will automatically be removed from everyone's
channels.
So really what we need to do, what they could have spent this development time on is developing
better comment moderation tools so that we can better moderate the discussions in our
videos.
Now, to be clear, I don't actually expend a lot of energy moderating discussion because
we're at the point now where we've reached that critical mass, where if someone comes
in and they want to attack me personally or Luke personally-
I also always allowed that.
One of our forum rules was that essentially you could go after us, but not other people.
Yeah.
But what happens?
And the reason that that's okay is because if someone really does criticize us in a way
that's unfair, we have a large enough supportive community that will come to our defense and
we'll make those arguments for us on our behalf.
So we don't have to go in and reply to and moderate every single stupid comment.
It's not constructive.
It just doesn't contribute anything.
So I have the luxury of being able to have that kind of open communication policy with
the community because of my position and I have to recognize that.
So one of the things YouTube could have done was they could have improved comment moderation
tools, which they still haven't done.
Now that might be on the roadmap, but in my opinion, based on how many, how is it that
anyone other than Jimmy Donaldson can have MrBeast in their username at this point?
How is it even possible?
How is it that, especially looking at a community like Reddit, how is it that Reddit comments
are so curated that if you sort them by top, which is the default sorting on YouTube, if
you sort them by top, there is basically no garbage unless you throw on your fishing boots
and wade into a particularly toxic community.
Top also just for, I think, I don't know if I could say ever, but for years has just not
really worked on Reddit.
On YouTube.
Oh, on YouTube.
Well, of course not.
On Reddit it works great.
So that's what I'm trying to say.
You know why it works on Reddit?
Because downvoting stuff is really important.
It's a really valuable signal.
So let's talk about the value of the dislike signal.
To be clear, I'm not saying we don't need another solution.
We do need a solution to dislike bombing.
One solution could be that creators on a creator by creator basis could have the ability to
hide public dislikes or what they could have is, you know what, maybe ultimately it comes
down to, I mean, this is something I've suggested multiple times and I'm sure it's something
that they've trialed and maybe this doesn't work, but if you force people to fill out
a form when they want to dislike a video, make it a chore.
Why do you not like this?
Make it a why.
Turn it into use machine learning.
That would actually be sweet.
That would solve a lot of the reasons.
Well, I mean, the dislike thing is still there, but that would directly address a lot of the
reasons why I think the dislike button needs to be there.
Giving a reason.
Because in some situations I think it needs to be there for safety.
A lot of people go to YouTube for learning how to do DIY things at home.
If someone gives you a really bad guide that can lead you in a potentially dangerous direction,
that's bad.
Which is absolutely a thing.
And people would point it out and dislike the video.
And then you can see, even if it doesn't go all the way down, you can see, oh, it's controversial.
It's like 50% of the way.
I wonder why.
Scroll down to the comments, see probably a fairly highly thumbsed up comment that's
like, this is dangerous for these reasons.
It's really nice.
And not just physical danger, right?
Over the last month, believe it or not, I've spent a lot of time trying to find guides
and tutorials for trying to get obscure things done on an operating system that most people
don't daily drive, particularly for gaming.
I'm going to back you up on this.
I have literally used, I just thought of a use case right now.
I've literally used the like to dislike ratio on videos for helping me with Linux stuff
in the last month.
So we probably both did that extensively.
When I see something that has, and particularly on smaller videos, it's extremely helpful.
When I see something that has 300 views and has 20 dislikes and one like, yeah, I look
at that and I'm like, see ya and I might bookmark it for later because maybe those 20 people
just couldn't follow instructions entirely possible.
But what it means is that I can, I can prioritize, right?
I can decide on a method of attacking this problem where I go, okay, I'm a go for the
more likely ones first because a lot of really obscure solutions that you're trying to find
have a really low number of people who have ever needed to find out about it.
And especially a low number of people who have ever wanted to make a video about it.
And that particular use case just got absolutely demolished on YouTube for me.
Like I already am more of a reader than a video watcher.
I just, I find written articles easier to skim.
I find them more time efficient.
Now YouTube has taken away the one freaking tool that I had to quickly and easily skim
the validity of a video.
I can no longer do it.
Do you have the, this is slightly off topic, but for written articles, do you have the
instinct where you go like roughly, I, I'm saying it, it's, it's a, it happens automatically.
It's muscle memory, but I think I go like three to four paragraphs into every written
article because I'm just expecting there's fluff because they want me to load the ads.
Do you just automatically, no, I just, I just read, I don't see ads.
I can't see them.
I have a, I have a learning disability.
I can't read ads.
So I just, I honestly just don't notice them.
I just, I'll load up anything and just be like, shwoop.
Over the years I've had so many people look over my shoulder or walk up to me and I'm
like doing something and they're like, how do you not use ad block?
And I'm like, huh, why would I need it?
Like 60% of your screen is covered in ads.
I'm like, oh yeah, I don't see it.
How about that?
Yeah.
I don't, I just, I can't see them.
Okay.
Now to be clear, I don't have all the solutions here for the, for the real valid problem,
which is people getting dislike bombed for things that are no fault of their own.
But I think there are at least possibly solutions.
Is this like, could you, could you moderate?
If you turned every dislike into a comment, for example, could you moderate those?
Could you go through and you could say, you know, I removed this, this, this, this, this,
this, and this.
And then it comes off of your public dislike counter.
Cause that's the kind of thing that I don't think would affect tutorials, right?
So I don't know.
If people can remove dislikes, how would it not affect tutorials?
Well, because I think a lot, I don't think, uh, okay.
I don't agree.
You don't have to turn off main power, just be a man.
It wouldn't help with anything malicious.
It might help with a bad guide for replacing a light switch because that person probably
hardly knows how to use the YouTube dashboard.
Or they're just like really it's, it's the problem that we actually run into a lot where
they could be just really good.
Yeah.
And so they don't have to worry about whatever thing.
And it wouldn't help with like some crypto scam or whatever else like that where they're
there intentionally.
Yeah.
Where they're intentionally trying to control dislikes.
Um, so I don't, I don't have a perfect solution that much is very clear.
Um, you know, maybe you could make it so that there's gate, like a gating, a gating function.
If this like hugely disproportionate number of dislikes piles up on a video in some amount
of time, you could throttle it.
So that's an example, right?
You could, you could shadow ban user's ability to dislike videos.
You could just outright.
I mean, as it is, my understanding is you have to log in to dislike a video anyway.
So you could remove all dislikes from banned accounts.
You could monitor, again, this is something that I believe a company with the resources
of Google could figure out.
I think that you could monitor particularly hateful or destructive users and just shadow
ban their dislikes across the entire site.
Yeah.
That's something that I believe could be done.
So I'm not saying I have the solution.
I am saying that there is one.
And what, where are the dislikes that you're talking about?
Dislike bombs.
Is this brigading?
Yeah.
So like this is a creator or a member of some community.
Yeah.
Like let's say a large amount, let's say someone comes out as trans, for example.
Yeah.
And then some, some toxic subreddit is like, oh, let's go dislike the video.
Let's go dislike the crap out of their video and make them, make them feel bad in a vulnerable
moment.
I guess that becomes more difficult.
That's the kind of thing we're talking about here.
I guess it becomes more difficult if it's from off site because you were just referencing
off site.
Yeah, but they can track that.
That's yeah.
So if you know where the traffic's coming from.
If they're clicking a link from Reddit and it's like, hmm, no one disliked this video
except for 100% of the people that clicked this link that came from this source.
Yeah.
They can try to figure that out.
Maybe you can moderate the actions of brigading that gets spurred up by communities on YouTube
itself.
Maybe you can do more for the issue instead of just being like, oh, people are using this
wrong.
So we're just going to take it out.
And each four by four tracker says you could make her at a requirement to watch a certain
portion of the video.
This is actually something that I have pitched in the past and I don't know how you would
enforce that.
I don't know how you would ensure that they're not bots, but what you would absolutely be
doing is you would be increasing the barrier to entry to participate in these kinds of
problems.
So if that is actually the problem, I believe it is a solvable one.
And I believe that it's one that YouTube could maybe say, okay, temporarily, we're going
to remove the dislike counter while we engineer a solution to this.
I would accept that.
But taking the, it's a tool, right?
Dislikes are a tool.
They're a tool that I use as a creator.
I use it to monitor sentiment on other creators' videos or topics and your own hate is, well,
I have access to my own still.
Right.
Right.
So I could, I could look at, okay.
Oh, I think people aren't going to click dislike as much though, if they don't see it, Austin
worked with Facebook or something like that.
Let's say, I don't, I don't know if Austin's worked with Facebook lately.
You know, what's the sentiment.
What's what's the, I can take the temperature of the community.
I can be like, okay, how big of a deal is it going to be?
If I were to take a Facebook sponsorship, right?
So I'm obviously I've, I've picked an intentionally controversial company right now.
But that that's a way that we've used it in the past.
It's like, you know, Hey, these guys had a sketchy past, but it looks like they've turned
over a new leaf and they're treating their customers better.
Okay.
Here's a creator that just took a sponsorship from them.
Are they getting roasted?
And I could go down and I could read comments for days, but it's nice to be able to do a
quick temperature check.
So this is a tool that I use as a creator.
And it's a tool that I use as a consumer of content online as well, usually in the way
that you're describing it to, to avoid wasting my time with content that is going to end
up misleading me, whether it's unintentionally like the expert electrician who doesn't feel
like he has to turn off the mains power or whether it's intentionally with like a cryptocurrency
spam or an attempt to steal my credentials, there's lots, some kind of phishing scam.
And that's a big problem is if YouTube invested all this engineering that they did into testing
dislike removal into figuring out how to remove the spam fate content from their site, man,
that probably would have been a better use of time, I think.
So it's this tool and tools can be used for harm, right?
This is something that I was talking about in a discord with some other creators where
I basically went like, look, tools can be used for harm, but that doesn't mean that
they're a bad tool.
Hammers are a good tool, but you can't guarantee it's going to hit a nail.
No, you can't.
So instead of throwing away our hammer, what we've decided, what we should be doing is
building a safer hammer.
And I absolutely think that with the talent and intelligence of the team at YouTube, that
this is something that they could do.
Now I want to talk about really for me, one of the biggest problems with this entire move.
And in my opinion, what I think is, and take, take this for the ignorant, ignorant speech
that it is, I think the far bigger reason for this is that YouTube dislikes have turned
into a negative PR problem for the platform.
Not just the platform, but a lot of other companies as well.
If you actually think about the most communally well-known things that have been disliked,
they're all corporate things.
Not all.
They're Becca Black Friday, for example, is an example of community dislike bombing someone
into insecurity.
So let's not pretend these things haven't happened.
I saw someone in the chat that's like, no, that doesn't happen.
Yes, it does.
So that conversation can end now.
It does happen, but I believe there are better solutions that don't have to completely take
away this useful tool.
But I think like the Reddit comment from back in the day that was talking about how with
Battlefront, I think it was Battlefront 2, and I think it was talking about how if you
would have to put like thousands of hours into the game to unlock every item or something,
if you didn't want to pay to buy things.
I don't remember exactly what it was.
There was a big World of Warships controversy that was very similar, where they ended up
getting disliked because their holiday thing was like physically impossible to actually
complete.
Right, I remember that.
Yeah.
So like these things, tons of dislikes, makes them popular because of their amount of dislikes.
There's a lot of different corporate videos on YouTube that are either extremely out of
touch or- Like the Terry Crews Amazon commercial that
just went up.
Is that a perfect example of something that rightly is being mocked internet wide?
Lots of things that Blizzard has ever put in video form.
Lots of things from gaming companies in general, to be completely honest.
It's not always a good look for companies, and it is often talked about.
Like a news thing that I fairly often get in my feed is like so-and-so announcement
video from so-and-so company is getting tracked by dislikes, and then I'll go watch it to
figure out why people hate it so much, and then I immediately understand.
It's like, okay, cool, and then I move on.
And this is something that could be done in the comments, but it's a waste of time.
And modern people's usage of computers, you've got seconds.
You've got very, very minute amounts of time.
So it's very clear that YouTube's goal is to obfuscate this data.
They want to hide this data from you.
Why?
The answer is pretty obvious, more watch time.
So you have to actually watch the content in order to figure out.
So I can understand from YouTube's perspective why they might look at their data from their
trials for this and go, well, everything is fine.
Because from their perspective, I guess everything is fine.
If there's more watch time, and there might even be more viewer satisfaction.
Because if you plugged the average viewer in front of a YouTube browser window and were
like, okay, yeah, do your normal thing.
They're going to go and they're going to watch clips from the late show, or they'll go and
check out whatever the latest thing MrBeast uploaded is.
They're going to look at a lot of content for which the dislike counter is not relevant.
And if anything, yeah, is probably really positive, is probably destructive.
Like it's, it's probably good content that somebody disagrees with and, and they're going
to kind of go, oh yeah, this is like, actually, this is actually a better experience.
But because of that, they're, they're ruining it for the people who actually need it.
And I want to say again, a type of, a type of PR disaster that in my opinion, dislikes
have a caused, but B enabled YouTube to become a better platform are maybe not common, but
they absolutely occur.
So let's talk about, you know, one of the most disliked videos on the platform, the,
I forget which one of them it was.
I'm so sorry.
You're definitely different people, but one of the Paul brothers, yeah, the, the suicide
forest video.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's what I was on at the time because it was fairly obvious that that was a spectacularly
stupid thing to do.
One of the things, one of the ways that media coverage of that particular event was able
to snowball was based on like, oh, there's a lot of community backlash, which is, which
can be measured through dislikes by allowing people to express their displeasure with something
that a creator has done.
YouTube enables communication to be not just two way, right?
They enable the viewers to communicate with each other.
And I don't want to hear it right.
When YouTube comes back, it comes back to that's right too.
When YouTube comes back and says, well, yeah, but they can communicate with each other in
the comments.
You guys are constantly hiding the comments farther and far, particularly on mobile.
You are constantly hiding the comments under more and more layers of crap that I have to
click on or scroll through.
So I don't want to hear it.
Right.
Dislikes are one of the ways that the community can punish and can brigade in a way that is
justified behavior that is unacceptable.
It's a really important tool.
It is one of the few levers that a viewer community can pull to say, we are United in
absolutely hating what you just did.
And one of the things that I'm not going to get helpful sometimes, I mean Logan, Paul
got 60 million views on his I'm sorry, video.
I don't, I don't want to get into YouTube or apology videos right now.
That's that's really not the point, but what I do want to talk about is when the mistake
is not just an error in judgment.
I would say that the suicide forest video was an egregious error in judgment, but I
don't think that it was, I think it was impulsive and stupid.
I don't think it was malicious.
I don't think it was, it was, you know, sitting there the night before trying to brainstorm
the most disrespectful thing you could possibly do and then going and making a video about
it the next day.
I really don't think it was about that, but let's talk about when a creator does something
that is legitimately harmful.
And I don't want to get into any names here because it's just not, it's not on brand for
me.
I'm not, I'm not a drama, a YouTube drama creator.
I want no part of it.
But let's talk about when creators, for example, abuse their position to take advantage of
a minor, which is something that has been a problem multiple times.
Dislike bombing, dislike brigading is one of the ways that a viewer community can signal,
not just to the creator, but to the entire world that they do not stand with that half
assed apology or with this weak attempt to be like, I'm back and everything's fine or
whatever it is.
And that's where it's, it's not even, you're not even really like sending a command to
your army to like brigade this person's video, you're, you're pointing out that it's egregiously
horrible and people are overwhelmingly agreeing with you, which is kind of its own thing,
but it's going to look exactly the same.
High hero says removing dislikes also makes bot or botted likes less easy to notice.
That is true.
If you have like a 99.8% like to dislike ratio, that is something that sets off a red flag
for me.
If I'm, if I'm looking at something like that, um, Faustini says, why would they just not
let the creators decide if they want public dislikes on their channel?
So they could do that.
The issue with that is that particularly for scammers, I don't think that's a good solution
because they'll be savvy enough to just hide their dislikes publicly.
Yeah, I, I, I feel like those are the main, the main issues for me are the potentially
harmful videos that will not have as obvious warnings on them and you know, back to comments
not being good enough.
I mean, think about the kinds of scams you re like, do you, do you read about, I don't
know.
I've clicked on them a few times.
It's often full of like, here's a scam that you know, this senior citizen fell for and
they lost their entire life savings to someone, to someone who fished their, their credentials
or whatever the case may be, YouTube channels and stuff to put it before, but like way too
much do not expect a non tech savvy user to navigate their way through that the hidden
layers on top of a comment section to figure out that some guide to fixing their internet
connection isn't just a phishing scam.
One of the ways we can defend these people is by disliking the crap out of these videos.
And I think that a lot of people have said, well, YouTube already has a solution.
You can disable ratings on your videos, but I think that even, even a below average computer
user knows that if the ratings are disabled, that's probably a bad sign.
So you can't point at that as a solution for creators, because I think that would really
hurt their ability to reach a broader audience.
I will click off a video pretty quickly if I see ratings outright disabled.
So to me, it's more a question of moderation and less a question of should they be disabled
outright?
Because if, if our solution is, well, people should just disable them, then YouTube made
the right move.
They already did it, they disabled them.
And if you disabled them for everybody, then you're not singling anybody out.
Right.
I understand the rationale.
I understand why they did it.
They are just harming the community's ability to communicate and they are harming the viewer's
ability to quickly and easily filter out misleading or potentially dangerous content.
That is an enormous problem.
And one that quite frankly, if YouTube comes to me and says, oh yeah, we totally like,
we totally found that this was 100% fine.
I call bullshit.
You did not, I promise you, you did not because you didn't do this yet.
And scammers didn't go, oh, this is great.
This is awesome.
Yeah.
And start doubling down on their strategy.
Now that they know that you can't dislike bomb them out of existence anymore.
Like we haven't seen the impact yet.
You can't study the effect of something you haven't done.
Not great.
Don't like it.
Yeah.
And we weren't potentially close to half the amount of time we have for the show on that.
So okay.
I mean, it might be fine.
These other things are, you know, yeah.
I'm sorry.
I'm just, I'm pretty passionate about this because no, it's okay.
It cheeses me too.
I genuinely use a like to dislike a lot.
And like you said, if I see a video that has ratings or comments or both disabled, I just
immediately think it's like some corpo trying to hide their stuff.
But I'm just like, see ya.
Like I, I, I somewhat religiously follow those metrics.
I will very often follow it up.
Like if a video is super disliked, I'll go to the comments and try to see why.
Yeah.
Cause it could be disliked because they wore the wrong color of lip gloss or whatever.
They don't like someone's voice or something.
I'm like, I don't care about that.
So like, yeah, I will check why.
And I honestly think a lot of people would cause people are naturally curious.
So they're gonna be like, okay, why is everyone so upset about this video?
And sometimes it's, it's yeah, sometimes it's not a very good reason at all.
And sometimes it is a super good reason.
And I'm very happy that I knew that it was bad because sometimes if I'm looking up, especially
a guide, like we've referenced a bunch of times, if I'm looking up a guide, I probably
don't know very much about said thing.
Yeah.
So I'm not going to know if the guide is bad.
Yeah.
Frustrating.
Um, can you tell me how this interface works?
What do you mean?
How do I make it so that it pops up there?
Oh, that's not a thing yet.
Oh, okay.
All right.
Well, we're, we're working on that.
Uh, guys, guys, um, by all means shop on lttstore.com, but the cutoff for merch messages is now I'm
not going to have a ton of time to do them because we don't have a ton of time for the
show today.
Um, I got a hot date, so let's go ahead and, uh, do our sponsors here real quick.
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Okay.
I'm all, I think I'm all.
It's good.
I think, I think people should be worked up about this kind of stuff because as we've
seen sometimes if part of the community is upset about something, it can be a little
bit difficult to, you know, reach through the noise.
And YouTube's got one heck of a community.
So I have a call on Tuesday about this or just in general, I will be speaking to the
product manager who worked on this.
Cool.
Um, I, I feel like I need to kind of gather my thoughts even a little more than I did
now and make sure that I'm in a good head space.
I don't think that what I'm saying is going to change anything.
Um, I doubt it too.
The fact that they've been working on this for a year means that ultimately I don't think
my voice matters in all of this, but the fact that they're at least giving me an opportunity
to talk about it, I feel like it would be irresponsible for me to not present my side
and explain why it's really important to me and why I would, I would love for us to find
another solution.
And, you know, like I said, I would be, I would be happy if YouTube came and said, okay,
we're going to turn it off for six months while we, while we dev something better, I'd
be like, okay, now we're compromising.
Now we're working together on this instead of you just taking something that is really
valuable to me because it's harming someone else.
I don't want someone else to be harmed a hundred percent.
And again, the people denying that that's happening, you're living in a bubble.
It happens.
It's definitely a thing.
It's a hundred percent a thing.
I mean, you got to understand, like I wasn't always a 10 million subscriber creator, right?
I've seen it.
I've done something totally innocuous, innocuous, like having kind of a high pitched voice and
been attached for it for years, for years, actually like, and some other stuff, which
was it, which was all BS.
Like it used to actually, yeah, to, to backline us up, it used to kind of cover LTT comment
sections.
Like it was, it was actually pretty intense.
And so, so like I get it.
And I understand that we have to make the platform a safer place, not because, Oh, people
can't stand to have their feelings hurt or whatever, but because we want it to be a vibrant
and growing community, we want utterly unique content to proliferate on the channel because
otherwise it's going to stagnate.
Like it is in my best interest for YouTube to have as many creators telling as many totally
different stories as possible because that rising tide is going to lift all ships.
I'm into it.
I think there's a better solution.
Yeah.
All right.
Why don't we move on?
Oh, we shot part four yesterday and today.
Yeah.
So should we, should we kind of spoil it for them?
Like what do you want to do?
Do you want to tell an anecdote that is not making it into the video maybe, or there's
actually quite a few of those guys.
So here, why don't I lay this out?
Okay.
Luke and I tackled part four of the challenge, which is game compatibility a little differently.
My way was a cop out.
I'm going to own that.
I'm gonna own that.
Okay.
Sure.
My way was a bit of a cop out, but other than, you know, trying a couple of games that I
don't normally play.
You did try stuff.
And we also, in your defense, we also played a bunch of random games.
Yes.
So I did that.
Yeah.
I played a bunch of games that I wanted to play the way that I normally would, but Luke
actually really like notes of the grindstone, massive props for this, by the way, went through
the most popular games on Twitch, sort of felt set, did a sanity check on them and tried
to come up with like 20 games that are the games people are playing.
And instead of relying on proton DB to just say, Oh, these are the most popular games
or whatever else, like really put some thought into, okay, what are the most popular games?
And then really set out to get them running.
So this video is going to end up kind of split up the way that I think part two, we did it
like that, where we kind of talked back and forth.
Yeah.
So this one's going to be even more like that, where I'm going to talk through, okay, well,
here's what I generally observed in my, in my comings and goings, just trying to live
my life playing some video games sometimes.
And then Luke's going to be like, okay, I tried this list of games and these are the
specific problems that I ran into and this is, this is, this is what happened.
So like one big bomb that is in that video, but it's probably not coming out for like
three weeks.
People might forget by then anyways.
But proton DB is super cool.
Yes.
But we were trying to find a list of popular games that wasn't on steam.
That's why we use Twitch and, and yes, we understand Twitch is not a conclusive list
of most popular games.
What makes a good game for streaming does not necessarily mean that it's going to be
super popular with the community.
But the top 20 games, at least at the time that I checked on steam were very big name
games that I know a lot of people play 50% exactly are not on steam.
Yeah.
50% of those top 20 games.
One of them was rocket league, which I'm not counting as on steam because you cannot currently
buy it anymore.
Yes.
Yep.
Yeah.
So that's a lot.
That was honestly more than I expected.
It used to be like, I mean, I was, I was looking at valves at valves.
Goal, right.
Of having 100% of the steam library playable on the steam deck when they ship it.
And I was like, wow, that's cool.
And that's a lot of games that could keep you busy for multiple lifetimes.
Yeah.
Realistically it really could.
But when it comes to the games that other people are playing, when we talk about the
social aspect of gaming, sharing experiences, right?
Like there's a reason that when Eternals comes out, right.
You don't want to be the only person in your friend group that didn't go see it right away.
Maybe you don't even care about that movie that much, but you want to know what everybody
else is.
You want to know what everybody else is talking about.
When someone, when some of your favorite gaming creator makes a video that's full of inside
references or jokes about the battlefield 2042 beta, you want to get the joke, right?
And so that's one of the things that's really challenging as much as you could play games
for multiple lifetimes, just within the steam library.
And if Valve does get that going, that's freaking awesome.
When it comes to being a part of gaming culture, it's not the whole answer.
There's more to it than that.
So okay.
How'd compatibility go with your 20 games?
Oh boy.
I think we might get into spoiler territory.
It wasn't probably as good as a lot of people would think.
One, one problem that you have when you get off of steam is that the launchers are kind
of trash in my experience, universally back.
Yeah.
Like it's, it's rough.
I had one time my computer was just straight up lagging out and I couldn't figure out what
was going on.
And then I was just closing random things one by one and then like assessing to try
to figure out what was lagging out.
It was the Epic games launcher.
A lot of different launchers have an issue where they just force themselves to front.
A lot of launchers have an issue where they force themselves to front for no apparent
reason.
The Blizzard launcher for me, elements just won't load until I mouse over them.
A lot of them require, not a lot of them, at least one, I believe to require at least
for me, that's one of the issues talking about Linux stuff is there's so many just like different
fragmented ways you can run things that like, who knows?
Maybe it isn't for someone else, but at least for me, there's, there's at least one or two
launchers that if they update, just need a complete new reinstall, which is just annoying.
Steam.
Yeah.
Steam runs great.
And mostly, mostly, yeah.
There are some issues.
I mean, we had that issue with remote play where if I, if I right clicked your username
and invited you that way, it worked.
But if I got the link and copied it to you, which is supposed to work, that did not work.
This, this is another one of the issues too, though, is that like these things, and I hope
people understand that we both do understand this is these things obviously also have issues
on windows.
Oh yeah.
Windows is a piece of garbage.
Yeah.
We get it.
Yeah.
If anything, this challenge, you know what, maybe that's what we should do.
Maybe part four is not the end.
So I was talking to James about this today and I think we should have a part five where
we actually get like, uh, like a crew of Linux evangelists.
We pull in, we get, we grab Anthony, we pull in Wendell from level one techs, we pull in
like Jason Evangilow, someone like that.
Right.
And we basically get them to sit and do like a, like a, like a VFX artists react kind of
like a corridor crew style.
You know, they don't, you don't see the entire series being watched by them.
Right.
Because that's boring.
But you might, they might find certain clips and go through, like they watch the whole
challenge and kind of go, yeah, they were right about this.
They were totally wrong about this.
I think they overlooked how bad this is on windows and Mac iOS or whatever it else, whatever
else it is.
And they, they critique our journey through the challenge.
I think that would be great for a part five, but then maybe part six, part 69, you and
I, you and I do Linux challenge part six, we install windows, but try to look at it
through the eyes of a Linux user or through the eyes of a fresh user and try to find,
try to catch ourselves with every work around.
Like there's been some rough stuff.
There's been a bug in the windows installer where you, if you have two drives, right.
And you pick one of them, there is a, there is a roll and eight sided die chance that
the secondary drive will end up with your bootloader.
So if you pull out your secondary drive, your main drive, which has your entire operating
system on it, other than the bootloader won't boot anymore.
And the process for fixing that is complete and utter black magic.
Like it can be done, but it is, it is a freaking nightmare.
You know, if I come out and I say, look, anything that you must do through command line is that
if the average gamer has to do something through command line, then you're done, right?
Like if I'm going to say that, then I can absolutely say to Microsoft, if any user ever
has to do this, you're done goofed.
You suck.
It's that simple.
There's also so bad windows update.
It's so bad.
It's so bad.
It's shocking.
It's actually stunning.
Tell me this, okay, for all the technological marvel that windows is like, let's not pretend
it is.
It's an amazing piece of soft.
The fact that it works as well as it does is a bloody miracle when you consider the
forward and backward compatibility of the platform.
It's amazing.
How could it possibly be?
How could it possibly be that when I click check for updates, that is not instantaneous.
How could you possibly not know what the updates on my system are and what the updates on your
cloud server are in milliseconds?
It takes an actually awkward amount of time.
It really does.
I'm sitting there sometimes going like, really?
Like I've actually never had to check for updates on mint.
Mint just has this very nice little notification with a very tiny little dot that'll tell me
if there's new ones and if I feel like it, I'll download and install them and it's never
a problem.
I always know if they're there.
Windows I have to manually check or it's just going to try to restart and bork all my stuff
at random times.
It's just like, oh man, so frustrating.
It's just baffling.
So yeah, what do you think of that?
We try to go fresh eyes, maybe I'll go windows 11 because like, okay, here's something.
Here's something that frustrated me on Linux for whatever reason.
So open VPN.
Okay.
Sorry.
Someone in the chat just said it took 11 seconds right now for them to find their windows updates.
How is that?
Why?
How is that even possible?
Sorry.
Okay.
Keep going.
How is it possible?
You know?
So, right.
So what was I saying?
Oh yeah, open VPN.
So open VPN in Manjaro Linux is as simple as right clicking on your network connection
and being like, oh, I want to use open VPN.
Now I didn't actually manage to get it working.
I spent a grand total of 15 seconds troubleshooting it.
So the problem was that it wanted a pre-shared key and a passphrase or something like that.
And I was like, huh, normally when I connect to this, I only use a username and password
and that's not what this is.
So I guess I, and it involved like going into our RPF sense box and like exporting a new
thing or something.
I just, I was like, ah, you know what?
I'm like nine days from the end of the challenge, I'm going to par second to my work machine.
I don't even care.
Sorry.
So I didn't bother, but if I, if I was used to that workflow, what I can tell is that
it would be super simple to quickly connect, authenticate and connect to an open VPN connection,
which is, which is awesome.
And Windows, it's like kind of a pain in the ass, it kind of sucks.
You have to download this like secondary application.
And when you connect to it, I've got this weird issue with Windows Explorer, where if
I don't wait for the connection to completely finish and I try to access a network share
on the remote network, I will have to disconnect, close open VPN, open it again.
Sometimes I have to do a full dance where I have to restart explorer.exe, then I have
to open, open VPN, connect, wait patiently, and then do it again because just, just reconnecting
or just opening a new Explorer window will not work.
It will just not load.
Like there are problems with Windows.
Tried to play Forza.
Okay.
We're back to problems with Linux now.
No.
Oh yeah.
Actually this is like.
Have you installed Windows already?
I'm technically done the challenge.
So I didn't install Windows cause I just had both drives in.
Got it.
Okay.
So I just booted Windows.
I was literally.
I pulled my Windows drive out so I wouldn't be tempted.
I was, I was back on, that's funny.
I also didn't want to deal with dual booting.
I was like, I'm not going to learn grub.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I just will not.
I ended up, I thought I was going to have to mess with it.
I didn't have to do anything.
It just worked perfectly right out of the box.
Yay.
I wanted to play Forza so I booted into Windows.
That's pretty much all I actually used it for.
I was back on Linux literally today, so whatever.
But I'm technically done the challenge so I can do that.
Funnily enough, I ended up reading a tweet after I was done playing Forza that someone
got Forza working on Linux.
It took them five days, which is like amazing.
And also.
Terrible.
Yeah.
But, but it was such a pain to try to play with other people because Microsoft's weird
obfuscated stuff these days, a lot of the user panels and ways things work are actually
just really, really odd.
And this is coming from someone who has used Windows forever.
Trying to multiplayer with people in Forza is really difficult.
And we ended up all needing to download additional applications and all this kind of stuff.
It was a nightmare.
Didn't I talk about how horrible it was playing Minecraft Dungeons with my kids?
Really fun game.
Right?
Because I had to create Microsoft accounts for them, but they're like junior accounts
and even their parent was not automatically enabled to play online games with them.
So I had to go and navigate, it took me like two hours to get it all going between buying
the game for all my kids and setting up the accounts and setting up the parental things.
Cause it's, you have to, there's two different things.
First I had to make it so that we could actually be friends.
And we were friends, but like the button just wasn't there.
So I had to make it so that, and there's ways that Microsoft could absolutely make that
experience way better.
Right?
Like they could have the online button and then kind of like it works on Android.
If my kids want to install an app, it'll just send me a notification.
I'll be like, yes, there is no reason why Minecraft Dungeons couldn't just, if they
go to play online, have a button that they ask for permission.
And then I could, I could accept, I could accept it on a case by case basis if I didn't
want them on all the time.
Or I could say, okay, yes, all the time or whatever.
Like there's no reason that those systems can't be better.
And I've got, someone here is, let me have a look at this.
Jamie says, I feel like the problem with windows is being exaggerated a bit.
Well, for sure.
But the problems with everything are exaggerated a bit.
I don't even necessarily just, I don't even necessarily agree.
I should say.
Actually.
Yeah, that's fair.
I don't think it's being exaggerated.
There's a lot of stuff in windows that is really straightforward because it's been really
straightforward for 10 years, but there's a lot of stuff with windows where they're
trying to like any time Microsoft has tried to get into the gaming space on PC, which
I know is like kind of weird to say cause it made DirectX, but you know what I mean?
The more like consumer usage side of the gaming space, it's been really bad.
And honestly, just stop trying to remake the wheel.
Forza is a fantastic game, been having tons of fun.
The worst part was trying to play with other people, which is really weird because like
a theme of the game is like, oh, we're a family, we're a community.
Let's all like race together.
You can't play with your friends.
When I bought it on Steam, it feels like they're like literally five plus years behind on a
lot of stuff.
And I really appreciate that they're trying to do this like cross-platform thing so you
can own a game for computer or own a game for console and play it on both.
That's very cool.
Either don't get your little grubby little hands on like the friends list and stuff that
make the experience really bad.
Or just do it right.
I know you can.
I know you're capable.
You're a multi-billion dollar company.
I'm sure you can figure it out.
Yes, I have the Xbox app.
I shouldn't have to download the Xbox game bar in order to invite my friends to games.
Stop it.
Also, I couldn't even log into the game at first.
I've had that issue before too, where you literally cannot do anything because their
authentication server is down or something and you're stuck staring at a screen, like
the car going, right?
I had to go into some like weird credential manager and like delete a bunch of stuff.
And then eventually I had to say, sign in with Windows Hello, which I don't have set
up.
And then it just worked because it's like bugged out.
Like, oh man, what a terrible experience.
Anyways.
Sure.
We should probably talk about the AMD data center tech.
So Genoa and Bergamo, Bergamo, I'm sorry, I don't know how to pronounce that.
Genoa is going to have up to 96 Zen 4 cores and Bergamo, I'm so sorry, I'm butchering
this, up to 128 Zen 4 C cores.
So those are cloud optimized ones where the idea here is that AMD is going after some
of these arm-based chips that companies like Amazon are building for themselves and kind
of going, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on a second.
X86 ain't cooked yet, ladies and gentlemen, I am pretty excited to see how these perform
and if they end up shaking things up.
Genoa is set for 2022 with Bergamo, late 2022 or early 2023.
They'll both feature DDR5, PCIe Gen 5, among other things.
And one other big highlight is the AMD Instinct MI 250 accelerator card.
Pretty cool.
Blah, blah, blah, they didn't show AI benchmarks, that's kind of suspicious, says Nicholas Plouffe,
who prepared this for us.
And I think that's pretty much it because I have to go pretty soon, but we said we'd
talk about Microsoft releases SE products, so what is this?
I don't know.
On Wednesday, Microsoft announced two products taking aim at Chrome OS's incursion in elementary
schools, Surface Laptop SE and Windows 11 SE.
It's going to be a fight.
Yeah, going to be a fight.
Yeah.
What does SE even stand for?
Second edition?
I don't think so.
Because it's like an educational product thing.
The notes don't have it.
All right.
I don't want to talk about the pinch to zoom cord of law thing, I just don't want to touch
that with a 10 foot pole.
Yep, sounds good.
Let's jump over to lttstore.com because we've got something pretty cool for you guys.
This is a product that has been in the works for like a year.
It's the party shirt.
Oh yeah.
It's kind of cool.
Student edition.
And it's super comfortable.
Check it out.
It's got little GPUs and CPUs and SSDs and RAM sticks and power supplies and fans on
it.
I genuinely think this is really cool.
I like it too because it looks pretty pro, you know?
Yep, I love it.
And a lot of people like showing off their guys' suits are pretty cookie cutter a lot
of the time.
But with the little pattern on your shirt and the pattern on your tie, you can often
show off a little bit of personality.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah, it's cool.
Also, oh, this is fun.
The latest edition of the newsletter is out.
And Kyle, who you actually just saw wearing the party shirt with his beautiful smile and
long hair, wrote our feature story today.
Not everything our team works on is directly related to making something you might hold
in your hands one day.
There's a lot of testing and analysis that goes on behind the scenes.
Kyle's omnidirectional speaker is a perfect example.
So regular viewers of Short Circuit would know that when we built the new set, we had
this awful echo and reverberation.
This can be a huge headache to fix.
But in this case, the fix was simple.
Just move the microphone.
The way we figured this out, science.
Look at this.
Look at this.
Look at this speaker.
Oh, that's sweet.
So you can buy these.
You can buy these pre-done.
But Kyle was like, no, F that.
That's expensive.
And built one.
It's called the Death Star Speaker.
It has one function, to make noise in all directions, which is kind of the opposite
of what the Death Star did, but, you know, whatever.
Minor details.
So it's a dodecahedron.
There's an Instructables on how you can build this.
After a bunch of hours 3D printing, a day in the workshop, and some jank, out came a
working omnidirectional sound maker.
And combining this with a calibrated USB microphone and an open source software package called
Roo, we can take relatively accurate acoustic readings.
So we used this to fix the reverb in the Short Circuit set.
We also used it, and you can see the graph from the LTT video acoustically treating the
workshop, to pretty much fix the awful audio in the workshop and to quantify just how much
we fixed it.
So he's got a bunch more details in here about how that works.
And oh, by the way, you know, also we sell stuff.
Hey, that's a thing too.
But this is such a great example of what I want this newsletter to be.
So make sure you guys sign up over at lttstore.com so you can check these out.
We do need to do a few merch messages, but I cannot stay for that long because otherwise
I will get low murdered.
Is this a page that I can share or no?
What if I do this?
I think that's okay, unless there's a message on here that's bad.
Oh yeah, right.
Let's not do that.
All right, Ryan.
What's the story or reason behind the original names for your servers?
Where did the name Wannock server come from?
Wannock is a town I grew up in.
There you go.
Noah, love the merch.
My manager was on everyone's behinds, but not having branded jackets at work, but didn't
bat an eye at my stealth hoodie.
Keep up the great work.
That's the goal, dude.
That is the point.
That's why it's called the stealth hoodie.
You can rep LTT without, you know, causing a scene.
Also we actually have it in stock on like WAN hoodie, so please, please settle, please
settle for stealth hoodie.
Aidan, what video did you want to recreate or redo from the older days now that you have
a larger team and more resources?
Oh man.
Well, here's one that we're actually working on.
Anthony wrote, and I heavily contributed to a video called the last PC build guide you
will ever need.
And basically it doesn't lay out a list of parts at all.
What it does is it lays out foundational principles for choosing your parts, lays out foundational
principles for how to research and lays out foundational principles for how to build a
PC with all the sort of icky picky little details in there, but not assuming the presence
or absence of any of them, right?
It is going to probably be a two to two and a half hour video, but it will be the last
PC build guide you ever need.
That's pretty cool.
We talked through just everything.
What are form factors?
Ooh, you know what I got to, I got to ping him.
We didn't talk about power supply form factors.
What about a truly successful Horu Monokuli?
Okay.
So that, that's not what this is.
Hold on one sec.
I need to do this.
You need to include a chunk about power supply form factors in the last guide you'll ever
need video.
To be clear.
I have, I'm not referencing the last guide you ever need.
I'm talking about the original question.
Uh, yes.
Okay.
Oh my goodness.
I swear this used to be.
I'm going to try to get through some super tasks while you still do it.
Okay.
I'm done.
Um, no, but we have some new capabilities that might make it so we could do something
even better.
Ooh.
So our friend, Brian, the electrician worked on a phase change cooler that we think could
be daily drivable at like minus 20 degrees Celsius, which is pretty interesting.
And one of the other ways we're considering using it is a chilled box.
So you don't have to deal with condensation.
The crazy thing about custom liquid cooling is that it can actually cost as much as an
air conditioner.
It doesn't cost anything to run on an ongoing basis, but with an air conditioned, like chilled
computer case, like it's like a, it's like a fridge on steroids, right?
Like you can't build a computer in a fridge because the compressor can't handle that kind
of heat output.
It's not designed for it.
Not just the compressor, but the, um, uh, the condenser, it's just, it can't handle
it.
Right.
Um, it's not designed for that kind of heat outlet.
It's designed to keep something cold, not make something that is heating, generating
heat cold.
So this is that, but on steroids.
Um, so that's, I mean, that's, that's an idea.
That's something.
Yeah.
Um, let's move on.
Let's move on.
Paul says, give me a gift for my girlfriend.
Says Vittoro.
Hey, fantastic.
Um, Dimitri says, give Anthony his own Linux channel already.
I mean, we can just make more Linux content on the other channels.
No promises there.
Paul says, can Luke model more shirts?
You think he's closest to my height.
Okay.
That depends.
You'll have to work through that with, um, uh, Hoffman who takes all those pictures.
Uh, Barry.
Hey, thanks for giving me something to look forward to.
Hey, thanks Barry.
Uh, Mitro asks, who are your user experience rants directed at distros are built by users
the way they like it.
You personally did not contribute.
Why do you think you have the right to tell other users that they are wrong?
Those who don't give back don't have a say, Hey Dimitri, you lost the game.
Sorry, bro, but thanks for ordering a stealth hoodie.
Okay.
I'm sorry.
I'll, I'll try that again.
As a user, you are allowed to talk about the user experience.
That is all the credentials that you need.
And in fact, a lot of the time creators can end up too close to a project to properly
appreciate the user experience of someone who didn't create it.
That is one of the core problems that Linux suffers from is that the users are the developers.
And so it's really hard for them to know how to design for a more general user.
Not who I am feeling like I, I have the right to talk about the user experience.
I'm a user, um, Arvin, Hey, could you add an option to switch between metric and Imperial
and LTT store?
Is that something we're looking at at all?
Um, we haven't yet, but maybe at some point could, yeah.
Um, anonymous been following along with the next challenge and I'm not going to turn back
for a good while.
Went with endeavor or less.
That's super cool.
I've heard good things.
Uh, techie tech quickie calendar is not coming for 2022, but we'll probably do one for 2023.
Basically it's designed, but we, um, didn't hit the printing cutoff.
Whoops.
Um, any updates on the hammer asks William E.
Uh, no actually.
And I checked literally within the last week.
Thanks David R. Okay.
I'm sorry.
I can't do more merch messages.
If Luke wants to stay and do some, I really do have to go or I will get murdered by my
wife.
I can do that.
Okay.
Are you able to lock up?
Uh, yeah.
Okay.
It's just been a long time.
Call me if you need any help.
Okay.
Sweet.
Okay.
Bye everyone.
I'm staying.
Right.
I think so.
Okay.
Can you turn that towards me?
Just hit intro auto to run the thing and then this to do the thing.
Oh, just like manually move myself over there.
Cool, but you have to stop the YouTube thing first.
Okay.
Um, hold on.
Are we off my page?
Yeah.
So you have to press this end stream first before killing that.
And then that.
Okay.
Okay.
Bye.
Okay.
Bye.
You're all mine now.
Okay.
Let's uh, yeah, let's go through some things.
Jonathan Q. Thank you so much for all the tips and knowledge.
You helped me go from someone building a PC to someone intelligently building PCs for
myself, friends, and family.
Your whole team is amazing.
Keep up the amazing work.
It's probably more directed at Linus, but I appreciate it.
Thank you very much.
Uh, Eric, you hi Linus, get wrecked.
The backpack looks great, but there are sorely few large messenger style tech bags.
Any chance you could make my next messenger bag?
Um, that's more of a question for Nick, by the way.
If you guys have like store requests and stuff like that, honestly, um, straight up don't
remember his handle.
I'm pretty sure it's Nick LMG.
Um, I don't exactly memorize people's Twitter handles.
Um, but Nick runs the store, like let's, let's not get it twisted.
Um, yeah, Nick LMG.
So you're way better off if you just reach out to Nick and to be completely honest, that
even includes store features.
Like you want that like Imperial metric thing.
Reach out to Nick.
Um, Nick is the, the ultimate deciding factor for things that happen on the store, whether
it's merch or, uh, uh, features.
Cause he will essentially like tell me and then I'll tell Conrad and then Conrad will
do it.
Um, so yeah, just do it that way.
15 minute float plane ad.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Subscribe to float plane.
I inserted, uh, I inserted a little float plane call out in, in the Linux video.
It was fun.
Uh, moving on though, Walter E thank you for your content.
You should get slash consult with an audio and engineer.
Yeah.
I don't think we should get one.
Um, doing a consult could be pretty interesting.
There are many things we, I'm an audio engineer could work on, blah, blah, blah, especially
your new audio booth.
Yeah.
I mean, if we're going to build an audio booth, we would consult with someone who knows what
they're doing.
Ian L I've been a viewer for around eight years around the time that I started my career
in tech support.
All the work you guys have done over the years, providing interesting and educational content
around tech.
If your team ever does anything in Australia, I'll be there.
Heck yeah.
Ben M bought some underwear and a water bottle and said finally underwear without holes.
There you go.
You know, you'll enjoy them.
I pretty much exclusively wear LTT underwear these days.
I'm not kidding.
I'm wearing them right now.
Um, and it's, they're great.
James bought an LTT hoodie, said LTT should team with G4 for something that could be interesting.
Jonas says greetings from Germany.
Joseph says hydration check, long time watcher, glad to have finally been able to catch one
of these live.
I am a hydro homey, um, but that's Linus's water bottle, not mine and COVID is a thing.
So I'm not going to partake.
There's also other reasons to not partake, but whatever.
Um, I forgot my water bottle, but yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna glog up when I get home.
Michael greetings from winter peg.
Man, it's cold.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I got some, some relatives over there.
Sure is.
It's not nearly as cold over here.
I actually wish it was colder over here.
Okay.
Um, I think there's a video, software company, Adam C, do you think there's value in doing
a video of a software company too, or probably not.
Um, you could go over to different departments like sales, customer service, dev ops, probably
actually interesting.
And talking about things like AWS and infrastructure, my company, uh, Benevity uses our tech to
help donating to charity to help make donating to charity easier and more efficient.
That's good.
Nice.
How do you guys do that?
Nathan says, Hey Linus, never going to get old, uh, love the show.
You guys literally got me through college.
Would y'all be interested in doing more networking level content?
Probably not at a super high level.
Um, just saying, but maybe they would.
I don't know.
Not my team.
Uh, Alexander L, I work right now as a sound designer on a musical, but hope to catch this
in the VOD.
Keep up the good work and tell Luke he's a cutie.
I will.
Uh, he says, thank you, uh, Robert M. Hello and welcome to the WAN show.
Have any, have a listen now.
Anything tech news you think of can be found.
We've got mountains of tech news, some better, some worse if, okay, I get it.
Okay.
It's the, the internet song.
I don't know if I can sing along with it well enough though.
Yeah, I'm not good enough to do that, but very clever.
Moving on.
Scrapyard Wars anytime soon.
No, if not scrapyard wars, if not scalper yard wars, maybe.
Probably not.
That's the series.
Yeah.
I've tried at this point.
Um, as much as, uh, scrapyard wars is, is my baby, um, we've, we've done the format
a lot.
Uh, I could, I could see it maybe coming back.
There's, there's still a few more things.
The last one was a little rough.
Um, there's still a few more things we could do.
It takes a lot of people.
It takes a lot of time.
It takes a lot of editing.
Um, and they're not quite performing as well as they used to because the, it's a little
bit tired of a formula to be completely honest, um, as much as it hurts to say, because I
love Scapyard Wars as well.
Um, right now is a really hard time for it.
And Linus and I are difficult people to use for it.
I might actually be easier these days because I feel like less people probably know me now.
Um, but Linus is so freaking recognizable that it's, it's genuinely very difficult to,
to do Scrapyard Wars.
Um, I don't know if I could say honestly, because it's not like you'd be intentionally
cheating, but like people are going to treat you better if they, if they recognize you
from the interwebs or worse, but usually better.
Um, Devin L. Got closure last show on bad time, bad channel, you'd been saying bat time
forever.
Linus said bad time once, Linus said it was wrong later, Linus says bad time.
Luke called him out for it and Linus denied it was ever bat time.
Luke was right.
I don't remember any of that, but I'll take it.
I'll take the W. Um, Miguel, I love to wear fun shirts to work on Fridays, so I can't
wait to add this to my collection.
Oh, he got the party shirt.
Nice.
Okay.
Thanks for everything you do for LMG.
Uh, thanks for everything you and LMG do.
There we go.
Sorry, dyslexia.
You sparked my love for tech three years ago and now I have a job in it and love it.
Fantastic.
Josh looking at the spreadsheet from the HDMI video, you guys only tested six 15 foot cables
all from Monoprice based on this information, uh, you guys are saying that using a passive
cable over 10 feet is asking for trouble, is there, and then I think they pressed enter
on accident.
Oh no, there's a character cap a comrade.
Does it just let them keep typing?
I hope that's not the case.
I don't think that's the case.
They just sort of stopped mid sentence, so I'm just going to move on, uh, Morgan Linus,
you inspired me to become a tech YouTuber and try to get out of my crappy job to thank
you.
What do you do with wireless keyboards in a search?
Okay, cool.
Demetro Oh, I hope I'm saying that right.
Binaries for Linux are dynamically compiled.
So there can't be just, can't be just Linux binary.
They're separate for each distro.
There isn't even a choice.
You must pick a distro with a higher user base Ubuntu or experience pain saying you
have to, so this is, this is something I've, I've gathered a lot more feels on that aren't
actually going to be able to make it into the videos because honestly, part four Linux
part four is massive.
Just my portion of Linux part four is honestly about the length of a lot of videos that I
used to make.
Um, and Linus has a just as long or potentially even longer portion of that video.
Um, and these types of thoughts aren't in it.
Um, but I, I disagree.
I even disagree, I disagree with so many different points of this.
I even disagree with the idea of experiencing pain, uh, because I don't think it's all pain.
Um, I think an extremely valid way to experience Linux is with no prior experience whatsoever,
dive directly into arch and get owned.
And I don't necessarily think that's painful.
I think, I think, uh, I wish Linus is actually here because this is what I wanted to talk
about with Linux today, but we ran out of time.
Um, there's this conception that I, I think has been pushed forward on WAN to some degree,
which is where everything has to be user friendly from a general user standpoint.
And I don't agree with that.
We have, we have talked about this and I have brought this up in the past.
There can be hyper enthusiast versions and nerfing those to make them more normie friendly
is not a good thing, especially when you're on a platform that has such a breadth of,
of flavors, right?
So for me, I want a game on it.
I honestly just don't really want my operating system to get in my way.
I have a lot of things to get done.
Um, I'm either like diving into a game with my friends or diving into work.
And if I'm not, honestly, I probably just want to hang out with my birds, uh, messing
with my operating system was something that I used to do a ton when I was growing up and
it's not really something I do that much anymore.
So Mint is great for me.
Ubuntu would probably also be great for me.
I'm just not a huge fan of Gnome 3.
I like Cinnamon's take on Gnome 2.
I'm very happy with Mint.
Things are good.
Um, but if I was trying to learn Linux, like really learn it, my approach would probably
be to start with one of these advanced user distros, like potentially Arch and throw myself
in the fire.
And it wouldn't be pain.
It would be effective learning because you're, you're forcing yourself to, to really absorb
this stuff and really learn it deeply and thoroughly.
And that's good.
That can be very good and honestly has a high amount of potential to make future actual
pain not as bad because you have a deeper and more proper understanding of what you're
using.
And one of my infrastructure guys at FlowPlane, AJ, essentially said that one of the best
ways to start with Linux would be to start without a GUI.
Just start with a command line only.
And he's not, when I first read that, I was like, what the heck?
But it's AJ.
So I had to like think about it more because he's a really smart dude.
So I thought about it more and was like, you know what?
In a lot of ways, yeah, because you're, you're learning the, the like hyper power user way
to do this thing.
And that makes a lot of sense.
So yeah, I don't agree with your, your point entirely anyways, that was an extremely long
answer.
I'm going to move forward.
Shanae, my husband is watching right now.
I think he looked you more than me get wrecked.
Your husband is mine now.
Michael, YouTube moderation is trash.
Yep.
Lawrence, these LTT cable ties are so much more useful than just for the inside of a
computer case.
That's true.
I just keep finding more and more uses for them.
This is my third batch of 20, looking forward to more gaming on Linux videos, heck yeah.
There's no such thing as more people working together on a single goal in open source software.
Decentralization is the key because people disagree.
I would just quit and pick another hobby rather than argue with someone.
Okay.
Bryson B, anime voice actor, Bryson Boggess confirmed Linus fan.
Hey, nice.
Built a mini ITX PC themed after my character Shoyo, oh my, I'm so sorry, but I'm going
to try.
Guido Hinata from Haikyuu.
I have no idea.
Sorry if I hurt people there.
David, Linus, thank you so much.
I have never got any other YouTube or streamer merch, but I got y'all's desk pad.
Very good quality.
I hope this shirt will also be good quality.
It will be.
I can pretty much guarantee it.
And if it's not contact support, chat, please buy the merch to help support them.
bookstore.com.
Heck yeah.
Luke N, nice name by the way, bruh.
Grabbing the stormtrooper bottle so I don't have to worry about hitting anything with
it.
Very nice.
Also a Star Wars fan.
I like it.
Oh, another one from Dimitro.
Who do your user rants directed at distros are built by user?
Ah, this is the one that Linus already addressed.
Alas, I know I'm going to pause a last dare, hopefully I'm saying your name correctly and
address this again.
I find the Linux community is a difficult thing to address because any community that
has that, any community that anyone at any time can claim to be a part of based on nothing
is going to have a lot of different voices and they're not all going to agree with each
other and they're going to react to things in different ways and all that kind of stuff.
So I have to be careful when I say the Linux community.
But I find there's a lot of personal hurt defensiveness when any criticisms are sent
towards Linux stuff in general or the Linux community in general.
What I hope that people understand is we were genuinely trying to give this a very good
shot and there was, I think the conclusions and stuff are going to be more positive than
you guys necessarily expect.
When we're sitting here on WAN Show, we're coming off of like a day or a night or whatever
of fighting with it and we're frustrated about various things, but this isn't the edited
tailored version of our thoughts and stuff.
So stick with it, stick with it.
The conclusion is pretty strong.
Okay, we've shot part four.
I know I read it.
It's there.
A last dare, hopefully I'm saying this correctly.
Please sign my bottle.
Oh, that's probably not going to happen.
Sorry.
Along with the person who picked and shipped, that'd be pretty cool.
But this is, yeah, sorry.
I love you guys.
Don't ever change honesty and transparency.
There it is.
Honest and transparent.
Benjamin, thank you so much Linus.
Thank you for over seven years of entertainment and for giving me countless examples of how
to just be a good person.
Dang.
Heck yeah.
Cedric.
Is that correct?
Cedric, Cedric.
He's from province of Quebec, hashtag float plane home.
Kind of true.
Yeah.
Peter S. I've made three K mining with my gaming hardware since you suggested on a WAN.
Thanks man.
LTGS pad rocks.
Heck yeah.
Sounds good.
I've got a buddy who has a 30 90.
He might even be watching right now.
I'm not sure.
And he, he games and he works from home and he runs just a nice hash thing.
I'm not recommending nice hash to be very clear.
I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Don't listen to me.
But he runs, I believe it's just a nice hash thing on his, on his 30 90 and he's made like
a grand in the last like two and a half, three months.
Okay.
Okay.
It's a thing.
Anonymous says, Hey Linus, have you found a headphone amp for your HD eight X X yet?
I have no idea.
I'm sorry.
I would recommend the bleh.
Okay.
Sounds good.
The hi-fi M eight V two, just in case anyone's wondering Philip, thanks for all the years
I've watched.
Thank you for the quality of the stealth.
Like the beanie being us air force.
They require our uniform to be black with black logos.
It's impossible to find quality like this, but your stuff never disappoints.
Thanks again.
I look forward to the backpack.
That's really interesting.
I never thought about that because there's not just, okay.
So us air force requires black uniform with black logos.
So I, I believe film sets also do, and there's, there's other industries that do as well.
That's, that's pretty interesting.
I didn't realize that portion of the benefit of the stealth products on the store.
That's actually really cool.
Uh, Jake J loving the content.
Are we going to have an LTX 2022?
I think they're trying, I can't say officially, I'm not literally not a part of that company,
but I think they're trying.
I think they're attempting to get LTX 2022 off the ground, but COVID makes things difficult.
We don't know if it's still going to be around then, who knows?
Has Jacob been to the Minecraft server?
I don't think so.
I don't know.
Uh, loving the short clips on flow plane, flow plane gang.
Heck yeah.
Um, cool.
Will legit do anything in the world to have Linus sign my banana?
I feel like we should have like a assigned banana option.
Um, I wonder how Nick would know.
I wonder how difficult it would be to get like an RGB banana, maybe, maybe one of each
one of the panels of the bananas, a different color.
Cause I think it has different panels, um, and then sell those and they get signed or
something.
I don't know.
They'd have to be like really expensive because that adds a lot of complication to like the
whole process.
Like it, it actually really does.
So they'd have to be like genuinely really expensive because you wouldn't want to do
a ton of them.
It adds a lot of complication, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Um, but I don't know.
Anonymous says shipping costs more than the book.
So he bought an ABCs of gaming book and he also got a lanyard and a desk pad and a pillow.
Um, shipping costs more than the book.
So I got all this stuff too.
Also, you need a place to sign up for notifications for when products are available for sale, like
the screwdriver.
Okay.
So we have back in stock notifications, which don't work that great.
Um, we're using an external thing.
And if we make a V2, like a different version, like we released a V2 of the water bottle,
it's extremely painful to the point where we didn't actually get it to work to have
notifications go out for that, which is frustrating.
So we might end up making our own, but we have back in stock notifications, but we don't
have notifications for like pre-items, I don't even know how I would word that.
Um, but maybe, maybe an idea for the future.
Anonymous says LTT party shirt, excited to wear LTT at the office, ties anytime soon.
No idea.
Go bug Nick though on Twitter, he's your man.
Myron Myron Myron Myron, uh, love the show, man.
Any new info on the framework stuff?
I don't know.
Sorry.
Um, uh, PS merch messages, a hundred percent awesome idea.
Nice.
Conrad's idea.
I believe Luke and the boys done good.
Heck yeah.
Good job, Conrad.
Thomas says Luke is the best.
I will tell him.
Thank you.
Uh, Benjamin says make more button up shirts.
Love this.
Yeah.
Honestly, I think it's super cool.
I, I know a lot of people are going to think, and I would if I was a viewer.
So you know what?
I don't blame you.
It's fine.
Uh, I know, but I know a lot of people would think I'm going to be like, I'm wearing it
right now.
I already told you I'm wearing LTT underwear and I'm wearing a, uh, uh, you know, company
branded shirt right now, but it's really good stuff.
Okay.
Okay.
So yeah, more stuff would be good.
Martin said extra money from overtime.
Let's go.
And he got all the bananas and insulated water bottles, CPU pillow, a stealth hoodie, three
mystery shirts, and a beanie.
Dang.
He wasn't getting, let's go.
Nice.
Okay.
Pierce.
Any thoughts on Elden Ring?
Uh, it's not out yet, right?
It looks really cool.
Looks genuinely really cool.
I've been, I've been really heads down trying to make the most of the whole Linux challenge
thing.
So I'm kind of like re-emerging right now.
Um, but some of the stuff I've seen around Elden Ring looks awesome.
Jason, thank you for being so in touch with your community slash audience base.
Love your content because you are always upfront and honest with us.
Heck yeah.
Paul says, happy birthday, Samantha.
Anonymous says, finally, I am home on Friday evening.
I'm not.
Uh, Benji says, Hey Linus, Oh, I fixed the phones at school.
I'm really into right to repair.
Heck yeah.
I was wondering what your view on the future of devices and repairability.
Um, he wants more of them.
So do I.
Deepak says, loving the mouse pad and water bottle.
Nice.
Pedro, I appreciate your Linux challenge helps bring exposure to it.
Yeah.
Hopefully.
I think it's gonna end up being positive.
I think there's already been positive things that have come from it.
I know certain members of the community have been very frustrated with it and very angry
about certain things, but there has also been members of the community that have been very
positive about it.
And I think overall already, even with part one, which I think is a little divisive due
to the, you know, the whole, uh, the whole, I'm getting a Teams message.
Maybe they're kicking me off.
Give me a second.
Um, what was I going to say?
Oh yeah.
Due to the whole, you know, Linus is telling Steam thing, uh, I, considering that was still
really positive, I think it's going to be great.
I think, I think Linux people are going to be stoked.
Um, they might not be stoked about how we describe certain things.
We might not describe it perfectly or, or whatever.
But I think, uh, I feel like our impact here is going to be positive overall.
People are just freaking out it's my birthday, uh, uh, Liviu, I'm looking forward, I'm looking
forward for a hoodie without the large text.
It would be more suitable to be used at work when clearly branded clothes can't be used.
Um, yeah.
Like someone said earlier in the show, the stealth hoodie can like kind of get away with
that, but not, not necessarily a hundred percent.
The thief, I need to measure all the things, got all the bananas and some lanyards and
a water bottle.
Very nice.
Damon says, love you guys.
You got a party shirt.
Someone else says, love the new shirt.
Got a party shirt.
Very nice.
Alex says, any thoughts of doing a stealth desk pad?
The quality of the pad sounds amazing.
And I love the Northern lights pattern, but my desk is already cluttered.
Also thanks for helping me get through a year of depression.
Of course.
Um, I don't know, maybe tweet Nick at Nick LMG on Twitter or bug him in other ways.
Leave comments or something.
Um, Eric, hi, I've been watching since the Langley house days.
I really like what you guys are doing.
My first merch I bought was the Linus tech linked t-shirt, which was really cool.
Yeah.
Uh, I still got questions like, is that tape?
Okay.
I remember specifically what shirt you're talking about now.
Yeah.
That, uh, that took me a minute.
Was actually looking for a shirt.
Love it.
Oh, and you got, okay.
You got the party shirt and the neon hard drive shirt.
Very cool.
Eli says pineapple.
Very nice.
Bryce says, stop making so much merch.
Almost 50% of my closet is your merch.
Don't actually stop.
It's great stuff.
Thank you.
And Ana says, hi, Luke.
Hey, what's up?
Thanks for the wind shows.
Have a good night.
Thank you.
Joseph says, got the CPU T and wanted a second.
Nice.
Yeah.
They're actually really nice.
And the last but not least anonymous says, ah, that's literally the whole message and
that's it.
Play the outro intro, outro button.
I think is the one I'm supposed to press maybe bye.
Bye.