What is up y'all and welcome to the WAN Show!
We've got a fantastic show lined up for you all today. The big news, of course, is Nvidia's
un-launch, which I
take to mean based on what they're doing, is the opposite of a launch.
That's where you retract a launch. They're un-launch of the RTX 4080 12 gig.
We're gonna be getting into the details of that. In other news, the meta quest pro is gonna be
$1,500, but don't worry, VR is gonna be mainstream very soon. Very soon, says Mark.
There's too much AI, or maybe not enough.
Is that a main topic?
I want it to be.
Really? Your little spat with Google over your privacy policy on Floatplane?
What would you prefer here?
The Microsoft Surface event? Is that deeply intriguing to you?
Do you get riled up in the morning about the Microsoft Surface event, Linus?
Tell me more about the Microsoft Surface event.
Do you know all the details of the Microsoft Surface event?
Okay, all right, all right. Let's just roll the intro.
There's also...
No, no, the intro's rolling.
Had enough snark.
Oh
The show is brought to you by UIlicious Squarespace and
Someone that I missed on the monitor. Well friend
Why don't we jump right into the big topic today?
NVIDIA's un-launch of the RTX 4080 12 gig.
Amazing.
First of all for context guys, NVIDIA announced the RTX 4090, 4080 with 16 gigs of RAM, and
4080 with 12 gigs of RAM at the same time.
But they were, as they have done in previous generations, planning to stagger out the actual availability of these cards as well as any
specifics when it comes to performance as measured by third-party reviewers like Yo.
What that means then is that this card was not really, it was announced but not necessarily actually launched.
And the reason that there's been a controversy and the reason that NVIDIA has come out and
said that we're gonna, we're not gonna go ahead and launch this was that
community members felt that the naming for the card was very misleading and
honestly, I feel exactly the same way.
This is exactly what you and I talked about back when NVIDIA launched the GTX 680.
So that was like, eight years ago, nine years ago or something like that.
And the reason that we felt that way about it was that the GTX 680 did not feature a top-tier
die. It didn't feature a big die version of Kepler.
It actually featured a size down die compared to the previous generation Fermi flagship, the 580.
And so for us, we were looking at it going, hey, we couldn't help noticing this is more of like a 70 class card.
What, yo, what's the, what's the deal with that? Because NVIDIA has traditionally, at least until quite recently,
reserved their eight number, whether we're going all the way back to, you know, the 8800 GTX.
I mean, even the 8800 GTS, I believe, used the G80 die, if I recall correctly.
So, so typically they reserved the number eight for their, their top spec chip.
And it wasn't until the 680, as far as I remember anyway, I could be a little fuzzy on the details,
that they went and they took a tier down chip and were like, yeah, you know what?
We actually managed to improve performance so much generation over generation that we're going to take a second tier chip
and we're going to, we're going to brand it as a flagship.
So I do object to, I do object to any naming scheme that is,
seems to be designed to intentionally mislead the consumer.
Now that I think about it,
we probably should have taken AMD to task for skipping a generation going from 5000 to 7000 with Ryzen.
I find that sort of behavior extremely,
extremely frustrating and unnecessary when it could be as easy as, hey,
the first number, whoops, is the generation of product.
Now, I think the justification for that is that there was a Zen 3 Plus 6000 series refresh on mobile.
It's often mobile. Nvidia does the same thing.
The launch had just mobile, or I think one time it was like a just Best Buy or something.
Yeah, well, they completely ignored, I believe it was GTX 300.
They went from 200 to 400 because I don't know,
except there was, as you said,
like an OEM only card that you could get in like a Lenovo pre-built or something,
but it was actually a 200 series and it was rebranded.
So there was no reason for it to exist at all.
And yeah, people are pointing out in the chat that they actually skipped twice
because they also went from Ryzen 3000 to 5000.
So they're just like, yeah, we're advancing really fast here.
You know, we're really pumping out those new generations.
All you're really doing is racing to a point
where you're going to have to come up with another naming scheme
and that's going to be annoying. At least do what Intel does
and, you know, launch that non-generation in between.
Okay. Okay. That's not entirely fair.
That's not entirely fair.
So the point is that I object to any naming scheme that seems to intentionally obfuscate
what the product actually is.
And when you call this card, this 4080 12 gig, when you call it a 4080,
the implication to me, the consumer, and I mean in the last generation,
they did use a top tier chip for their 80 card.
The implication to me, the consumer, is that this is a top spec piece of silicon.
And the only difference is the RAM capacity.
And the only difference is the RAM capacity.
But in actuality, based on Nvidia's own first party benchmarks
that showed the 12 gig version underperforming the 16 gig version by up to 30%.
So the reality is that this is a 4060 Ti, realistically, is what it actually is.
If we were to look at all the different tiers of silicon that Nvidia produces and say,
okay, yeah, 80 is top, 70 is often actually top but cut down,
but sometimes a next one down and 60 and 60 Ti things start to get a little bit murky.
In fact, there have been situations where they've actually used different dies
for a 60 or 60 Ti class product where like it's a big one that's cut way down
or a smaller one that has all of the features functional.
So if we're being realistic, this is like a 60 Ti class product at best.
And maybe with the new making room for it, you know, the 90, okay, maybe it's a 4070.
But I think that it's pretty clear that this was misleading.
I think a lot of members of the community felt that it was misleading.
And we've got to at least give Nvidia credit, I guess, for once again,
unlike some other mega corporations at least having some shame.
When we took them to task over their treatment of hardware unboxed,
did they or did they not reverse course?
They did.
Okay.
Sure.
When hard OCP took them to task for-
Is it shame?
Hold on, hold on.
Or is it damage control?
When hard OCP took them to task for, what was it, Project Greenlight?
I don't remember what it was, but I remember this happening.
Yeah, I believe it was the Greenlight program where they clamped down on overclocking partner cards,
which probably is, well, not probably, was one of the considerations for EVGA dropping out of the GPU market.
How are you supposed to differentiate your product if you can't even differentiate it?
Because Nvidia says no.
So like the boring dad program is more like it.
Actually that they didn't, no, they didn't really back down on that.
Okay, fine.
So they back down on one thing and now a second thing.
Yeah, it's just damage control.
I don't think it's shame.
Well, I mean that does demonstrate a little bit of shame.
We've certainly seen other companies-
I think it's financially attached.
Like I don't think- That's what I'm saying with damage control.
It could have some financial shame.
Okay, okay, so here, here, here, here.
For example, okay, Apple has been shamed-
I don't think they're going, this was wrong.
I feel shame. I'll take the hit on this and fix it.
I think they're going, this was a bad move by us, which will financially not be a good thing for us to do.
Let us adjust this so that we make the more monies.
I don't even know if there would have been a financial impact because at the end of the day,
the consumers who actually look at benchmarks and watch
or read reviews are going to know how things stack up.
The FPS per dollar is what it ultimately comes down to plus some features, right?
And for the people who don't do that,
they were just potentially going to buy a cheaper die and think it was a 4080.
I think- I don't think there's a financial loss.
My assumption is that they would do that and then people would rage.
And the rage would turn into potential sales for-
5,000 series or 6,000 series.
Maybe 7,000 series, maybe we'll skip two numbers.
69,000 series.
Sure, whatever it might be.
Let's go, just do it AMD.
Okay.
But yeah, I don't know. I don't think Nvidia feels shame, personally.
Okay, all right, fair enough.
I've watched them do many a thing that should result in shame
and I have watched them just not care at all.
Yeah, in other news, they literally turned their apology into a marketing exercise
showing lineups of people to buy 4090s.
So, okay.
I guess that really is more supportive of your position than of mine.
But at least they unlocked- if they turn around and they launch this thing as 4070,
I'm still going to be disappointed because I still think that's BS.
You think it's a 4060 Ti?
I think it's a 4060 Ti.
That's what I think it is.
I think that fully functional, maybe it's a 4070.
If the 4080 die is like a 4070 Ti at some point.
Like if we get a Ti for a small price uplift halfway through the cycle,
I mean, you got to assume Nvidia is planning on that now.
Oh, yeah.
I don't think Nvidia intended to slow down their release of new architectures of GPUs
from like every 12 to maybe like 15 to 18 months.
Actually, they used to come even like inside a year, like way back in the day,
but I don't think it was their intention to slow down from a yearly cadence-ish to like...
What, two to three years?
Drew Scott in full-plane chat said, what about the board partners though?
What about them?
Nvidia, as far as I can tell, does not care.
No.
So, yeah.
Yeah, no, I think there's exactly zero Fs given by board partners.
Man, you know what we did not do a good job of spelling out?
We did a video.
Has it gone up yet?
I actually don't remember.
Maybe it went up.
Yeah, yeah, it went up.
Let me check.
Yeah, no, it's up, it's up.
We did a video on using an ARC GPU as a coprocessor just for AV1 encoding.
And that's a pretty sweet video.
But we actually were really focused on if you had a last-gen Nvidia card
and you don't need additional performance
and you don't want to pay $900 for a 4060 Ti with the wrong label on it, right?
That was kind of the angle for the video.
But what we really should have done was we should have focused on,
hey, this is the one feature that just kind of kills AMD cards.
Their encoder just has not been as good historically
and apparently it's been improving.
I know, I keep saying that we need to take a closer look at it.
Apparently it's been improving.
My understanding is it's still not on par with NVENC though.
So maybe what we should have done is positioned it as the solution to Nvidia is AMD plus Intel.
Which if I told you that like two or three years ago, you would have told me I was an idiot, right?
But it'd be cool.
But with how much cheaper an equivalently performant Radeon card is right now,
for like a 6800 or like a 6700 right now, man, those things absolutely rip.
So if all you need is a good video encoder with how much cheaper they are,
that's actually a totally viable alternative.
Man.
So in a full paint chat said maybe they're trying to avoid lawsuits like the GTX 970.
I think that's a completely different situation.
Yeah, that's a different situation for those of you who are who are not up on that.
Basically, they had a version of the 970 that was three and a half gigs of the four gigs of memory
ran at full speed and the last half a gig ran at a reduced rate
and it was because of the the memory bus width on the card
and functionally it made very I honestly I felt that they should have disclosed it for one thing
because they knew but I felt that that one was a bit of a nothing burger in terms of performance
because the reality of it was that the 970 was not such a performing card
that you were going to reach the very limits of how much data you needed to put in its VRAM
without running into other bottlenecks on that card.
It was still BS, but I hear you.
It was stupid.
Yeah.
It was bad.
Yeah.
But I yeah.
Apparently it was all 970s not a version.
Oh, sorry.
Sorry.
Yeah 970 drives with my memories.
Sorry.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, so the 970 compared to the 980 which was which was full die
or which was a wider memory bus or whatever had that like issue or something like that.
Yeah, so they knew they knew and it was bad,
but it also didn't really affect performance except in some very very weird edge cases.
Yeah, so are they okay that we are discussion topics.
Yeah.
Okay.
We managed to make our way through the discussion topics without actually reading them.
So that's pretty cool.
Why don't we jump right into our next topic here one that you really want to talk about
even though I don't see how this is a main topic.
Okay, there's too much AI.
Okay is the header for this topic
and this is this this was spawned from Luke having a little spat with Google
as I do over the updated version of the floatplane app for Android.
Yeah.
Yeah, you managed to fight with Apple and Google almost equally all the time.
Yeah, they used to just be Apple and now Google's trying to catch up.
They're really they're unhappy that I'm not in conflict with them as much as I am.
Well, I am now they were unhappy that I was not in conflict with them as much as Apple actually right now.
I'm beefing with Google more than Apple.
So the problem we tried to push a bug fix for the Android app for floatplane
and the bug fix help with Chromecast,
whatever the conclusion of the story is that you should be receiving that soon.
If you don't have it already it was approved at 8 a.m.
This morning.
So it's still propagating a little bit,
but I believe you could go manually get it if it hasn't updated for you at this time,
but they didn't let us do it for a long time
because they kept on rejecting our privacy policy by saying that it wasn't there.
We've had the same link to our privacy policy.
Should I open it?
I mean you can if you want we've had the same link to our privacy policy in the App Store thing.
This is it.
This is the privacy policy.
We've had the same link to it since we had an app.
It's never changed.
Yeah, it's been the same thing.
It's been in the same spot.
Like it just is just how it's been.
They said we didn't have one.
So I noticed that we had yeah,
there's a lot there's a lot of that word.
So I noticed that like okay,
we actually had a redirect in place sure because we moved it one point but we redirected it.
So if anyone had the old link it would still work.
So I was like, okay, I'll I'll make it so that it has the the technically new link
so that there isn't a redirect maybe something on their side is unhappy with the redirect
and I appealed and I was like the policy has always been here.
Oh, no.
Okay.
The first move was that I appealed immediately and was just like hello.
Yeah, like I I detailed a bunch of stuff.
I was like this link has never changed.
This is exactly how it is.
I have checked it myself on multiple computers from multiple locations.
It works.
It's there.
Maybe there was a temporary outage that somehow we didn't know about I you know,
not not putting all blame on the other side.
Maybe there's someone us could have been a misunderstanding.
Yeah, exactly.
You know that I'm here to play ball but like I'm pretty sure it's in your court
and then they immediately spat back and we're like,
nope, not there.
Okay, so I removed the redirect.
I just want to clarify the thing that's not there is this.
Yes, this is not there.
Yep.
That's it.
I'm just checking and it looked like that the whole time.
Yeah, so like this.
Yep.
So sorry.
So I just want to clarify it.
You might want to highlight it.
Yes.
That's what's there.
Yep, that one.
Okay, just checking.
So yeah, remove the redirect resubmitted spat back out.
No dice not there.
Okay.
Sounds good.
One of the members on the team had a very good idea a brainstorm that maybe it's
because no one's actually reading it.
Maybe it's because it's an AI that's trying to scrape the page
and maybe we're doing something that could be a little weird that could interfere with that.
We tried a bunch of screen readers
and other type of things to see if there was any problems wasn't really any problem,
but the idea came up to do to do no background loading.
Yeah, just something that we do on a lot of different pages on the website explain why
because loading those elements will make it so that when you go to that page,
it loads faster.
Yeah, it's a good loading other pages other than what you're looking at.
Yeah, so that just in case you click them the super loads in the background essentially,
so we don't do any background loading and it's just it's technically just like it's just text.
It's just the most basic thing we could possibly do and then we send it back in
and they're like great because no one ever looked at it.
No person saw that despite the appeals despite whatever.
I pretty much guarantee you considering nothing has ever actually changed with the content on the page
and it looks identical that no one ever actually saw.
You know, what's really mind-blowing to me about this.
I mean other than that. This is mind-blowing.
Yeah, when when I went to Creator Summit YouTube made like a really big show of how appeals to things
like content strikes are 100% manually reviewed.
Yeah, not this one and I'm looking at it going.
Okay, so you can afford to manually review an entire whole ass video.
But just clicking a page, you know, hey would have been seconds.
Yes, there is a privacy policy.
No, no the the revenue the 30% cut the 30% revenue cut you claim you need to run the Play Store is not enough to hire a handful.
Okay, probably a significant number of people but but to hire a team of people to click through and go.
Yeah, that appears to actually be there the AI might have got it wrong.
Hey, we should probably flag this and make our AI even better which you know,
might be a mission at Google to improve their AI's performance really.
And you could you could have an AI go through
and check off what I'm going to assume is 80 to 90 or even higher percentage of cases
and when it rejects stuff just have a human just skim it.
You just have to see the link even just reject it.
Sure, but when it gets appealed, yeah, maybe somebody should look at it and the text is like,
hey, it's literally been there for years.
You've been okay with it for years.
It hasn't changed.
Maybe I didn't notice it hasn't changed but it hasn't changed.
Maybe you should look again.
They didn't they didn't look.
Yeah, very frustrating.
But then the other side of it in brackets or not enough is the same thing because wow,
what a hunk of junk.
Yeah.
So on the one hand,
yeah, there's there's there's too much AI but on the other hand,
yeah, not enough.
How could this thing possibly not know that there's a privacy policy on this page?
Literally the page does not look different now.
No, it's only like background loading stuff that the team changed and how it's formatted.
This is what it looked like.
It's just text.
This isn't an image or anything.
They don't have to like parse an image and machine learning.
You can still read it with a screen reader before that was one of the ways.
Absolutely.
It has the word privacy all over it.
And I mean without implicating ourselves too much.
I think that we borrowed a lot of it from other privacy policies.
I mean if someone else's lawyer said it's okay,
it's probably okay.
So did ours.
So did ours.
We actually did have a lawyer looking at it.
Yes.
But it's one of those things where it's like a lot of this verbiage.
It's probably identical to other privacy policies on the internet
because as far as I can tell them,
I actually haven't had to read a handful of them.
There's a lot of just like yeah,
this wording seems to work.
Why would we reinvent this wheel?
Yeah.
So they probably see a lot of redundancy in these kinds of documents.
It can't be just us.
So how could they possibly not compare it to something else?
I mean, this is kind of like what we were talking about last week,
where I will say like,
you know, call Jake into my phone and it'll be like,
sorry, which one?
And you're like, Tyvee.
And it's like,
sorry, I can't find Jake Tyvee.
I'm like, okay.
Call Jake TV.
Calling Jake Tivvy.
Like no,
well if it's so close,
on the one hand,
you're one of the leading companies in the world for AI.
And on the other hand,
you're like, duh.
It's just,
it's very,
it's very frustrating.
And the amount of time that this stopped a bug fix from hitting.
The thing that frustrates me the most is it seems like we get hit every time when it's a bug fix.
Let the bug fix go through.
Yeah.
If I'm launching a new feature,
okay.
You know?
More scrutiny,
fine.
At least the feature gets delayed,
whatever.
But it's a bug fix.
Let the people have the bug fix.
My goodness.
So frustrating.
But yeah,
that's it.
You want to talk about your hype topic now,
the Microsoft Surface event?
Nope.
I want to talk about one of the topics that I asked to be in the show and isn't here.
Oh,
okay.
I want to talk about Netflix launching the ad supported tier.
A cheaper,
basic,
you basic son,
cheaper basic subscription with advertising in November.
I wonder what they're going to do about ad blocks.
Everything you need to know courtesy of the daily record.
So you'll have to forgive me.
The original source is in British pounds.
That's another currency that's much weaker than yours,
my American friends.
I think it's 5.99 US and 6.99 Canadian or something.
And 4.99 pounds.
Wait,
that doesn't make any sense.
Isn't the pound like super weak now?
I don't anybody knows.
The point is that it will offer all the same features of a standard subscription.
Which is going to stay at 11 pounds sterling,
but there will be a few differences,
which is to say that it will not offer all the same features for one thing.
It will not offer an ad free viewing experience.
Greg Peters,
chief operating and product officer of Netflix said basic with adverts.
That's British for advertisements is everything people love about Netflix at a lower price.
With a few adverts in between.
What's a few?
I mean,
if you ask Google,
maybe 10.
Okay.
Yeah,
that was it.
That was an experiment.
That was generally,
I generally see a few as three,
but I my understanding is that it's like three or more,
right?
I'd say I'd say if they have I'd say it'll probably be a few that that would be that would be my guess.
They used the word a few so it'll probably be like free pound is still stronger than USD.
Okay,
they had decent amount actually basic with adverts.
He went on to say also represents an exciting opportunity for advertisers.
Yeah,
almost nothing good starts with represents an exciting opportunity for
advertisers literally.
Yeah,
I don't think I've ever been able to attach that to a positive statement the chance to reach a diverse audience,
including younger viewers who increasingly don't watch linear TV.
In a premium environment with seamless high-resolution adverts or have any money to buy anything.
Well subscribers of the new plan will also be able to enjoy a wide variety of great TV series and films on a range of TV and mobile devices.
But this is another difference between normal standard Netflix
and new Netflix basic is that actually some programs will not be available due to licensing restrictions.
If I had to guess I would say that some of the agreements that they've signed over the years probably
specifically licensed for a non ad supported platform.
And now that they are not one for these particular viewers that may no longer be a valid licensing agreement.
I'm what's wonderful playing chat said it's 45 minutes per one hour for one hour between 15 to 30 seconds in length.
It's better than this hour has 22 minutes. Is it going to hold on a second?
Is it going to pop up in like the middle of a movie?
Does anyone know I doubt it because it's not it's not this isn't launched yet.
Is it no, I don't think no. No, it's not.
I believe you can get it starting in November.
Okay, November 3rd. It looks like they really interrupt a movie.
I mean realistically YouTube interrupts the middle of a long video,
but with YouTube it's I don't I feel like I have a different expectation a movie.
That's a really that's a really like different when I sit down to watch a movie.
I got my pop. Okay. I'm kind of a freak about it.
Like I will sit there while my if I'm having trouble with like,
you know, my Plex server or like the projectors not connected to the thing
because the kids were fooling around with their something.
I will sit there while my ice cream melts while my popcorn gets cold
and I will not take a bite of either of them until the movie has started like my movie snacks are for movie time.
That's it. I already all this is actually a thing.
I already knew all of that and he feels just that strongly about it and always will.
So any new part of that was surprising.
There's like for me. There's something a little sacred about the about is cool.
The movie watching experience and now I don't really watch the Marvel films,
but I know this clip is going to be like watching with my wife Iron Man sitting there with his glove thing with the gems
and I am aren't this ad brought to you exactly right so good.
And you gotta you gotta wait. I guess that'll be a Disney plus only thing,
but whatever you gotta imagine that they're going to use like machine learning to figure out the optimal cliffhangers to put ads on so that your retention will feel affected by it.
Yeah, I was interpreting that the other way, but you're totally right.
It's going to be the evil version. Yeah, that's a hundred percent going to be the evil version.
Yeah, people are asking what about ad blocker? I suspect it's going to be pretty difficult because Netflix is such a an in-app experience on so many devices.
Like they're there. There may be ways to block it. But like, okay, even something like piehole to my knowledge doesn't actually manage to block YouTube ads on something like a smart TV.
I think Netflix also has people always I don't know why people don't really think about this.
But every time I bring it up people freak out at me and then figure it out later on, but they don't actually have that much content.
What I mean is compared to like a YouTube or something, right?
So they could bake in the ads if they really wanted. That's actually something we talked about as a DRM strategy for float plane back in the early days when we weren't really sure how to do it was if we were if we were going to have some kind of
Ad sponsor message. Yeah, if we were going to have some kind of ad supported version of it.
How were we going to make sure that we were actually serving these bloody ads and and yeah,
actually re-encoding the video with it in the video and then you'd have to have some kind of modification to the player
so that skipping is not allowed during that section or once it's activated or something like that.
Ultimately we decided against an ad supported tier just because it's like impossible to make money on it.
And you'd need business people to start selling the ads and yeah,
or you're joining some program and then you're gonna get worse rates and horrible horrible horrible ads and I don't like ads anyways.
Yeah, that's that's fair. So we're float plane premium only but anyway,
I think the main discussion question for me and okay.
I want you to answer this honestly. Will you downgrade?
No, because I don't have it anyways,
so I would have to upgrade to it. But you've had Netflix, so put yourself back in that headspace.
Will you downgrade knowing that the person it's going to affect is Emma?
You wanna know something funny? I don't have it right now,
right? Yeah. I told her yesterday that this was a thing because I was like,
hey, you wanted to get it yourself. It's cheaper.
But she's been she's actually been doing really good.
She hasn't watched any TV like at all in a long time.
Okay, we're both working on on self-improvement kicks.
I mean you can tell he's actually like like smaller.
I still have a long way to go but I am significantly smaller.
Yeah, like you don't even look like that much like bigger than me.
Like there was a while where he was kind of big.
I was I was I was a big boy. Yeah.
How are you doing so far? If you don't mind still 35 down 35.
Yeah, 35 down. It's a decent amount.
I don't actually know when I started. Okay,
so 35 down it was arbitrary was at some point during this year.
It wasn't at the beginning of this year. It was something.
I think it was probably like two to three months into this year.
I know when I started my like walks the ground was frosty at night.
Okay, so it was around then.
Yeah. So sometime in like the early spring or like late winter kind of thing.
Yeah. Okay. Since then I'm 35 down
and I've been working out at the same time and gaining muscle mass.
So I'm 35 down which is cool,
but I'm also not like that's not my main thing that I'm going for.
Yeah, for sure. I mean going to happen because I was too high up,
but it's not the like main metric that I mean,
yeah weight loss is not something that I focus on at like I don't I don't focus on my
weight at all because according to according to there's a lot of people that have
pressed X to doubt that I weigh a hundred and seventy pounds.
I really really do but naked on the scale.
I'm like a hundred and sixty nine point eight or something like that
because if you just go by like BMI be my calculator for men.
I'm like obese. Yeah, which is definitely not at my fittest state that I ever was.
Mine was like really bad. I don't know what it was,
but it was like you're like dying and I was like, no,
I'm doing great. Yeah. My BMI is 27,
which is like well into overweight territory.
Yeah, it's like this is why BMI is such a useless absolutely useless measure.
36 pounds or kilograms. Yeah, I know that's that's pounds.
Yeah, that's pounds the 36 kilograms disappear.
The poor thing would be like. Yeah.
Um, yeah, so I don't know that's neat actual again,
because I'm I'm trying to put on muscle at the same time actual fat loss would be like way more than that.
But yeah. Hey, we should do a couple of merch messages.
We'll do the rest of them towards the end of the show guys.
Just a reminder instead of super chats instead of twitch bits or anything like that.
You the a plus top tier smart smart boy smart lady move is to send a merch message.
If you check out on lttstore.com where there's going to be a little field there where whenever we're live,
you can send a merch message. It pops up showing what you scored in the bottom there.
And if you have like a question or something,
then our producer Dan sup producer Dan is going to have a look at it.
And if it's a good one, they'll carry it. He'll carry it.
If it's not he might reply to it or just kind of pop it up there.
You can also just like shout out people like hi mom or you know,
whatever else and it'll scroll by on the little bar down at the bottom.
And if we for whatever reason don't get to your message.
Hey, at least you get your order in the mail. We've actually got a couple of special things to announce for the store.
First up. We've got some new colors for the beanie.
Oh, yeah, I guess this is a good time to switch out my hat.
We've got three new colors purple Navy and olive.
I'm going to go with purple. I've already worn all these.
I'm pretty sure I don't have lice. You are more than welcome to have one,
but you also don't have to put one on because you're probably warm.
Yeah, I am. Yeah, I know. He's a warm. He's a warm boy.
He's a warm boy ladies and gentlemen. It's true.
So yeah, we've got we've got our new colors, which is pretty sweet.
And we've also got a deal if you buy a 21 or 40 ounce water bottle and a lanyard,
you can get a free dad hat just add the bottle lanyard
and hat to your cart and the deal applies automatically.
It's I think this might be the first time we launched a seasonal item like on time in the seat.
Yeah, like like during the actual season where it makes sense to wear it.
Yep. Neat, right? Oh, it's happening.
The new beanies our new stock of beanies comes in these new paper.
They're just like a wax paper. Yeah, sorry like a wax paper recyclable packaging.
So if you get an old one, it's still in the old plastic,
but the new ones will all come in the newer packaging.
We're just trying to get completely away from plastic and foam in all of our packaging.
Yeah, that's awesome. Oh for those of you who want to updates on the backpack.
I should probably update you. There's been some confusion people are like,
okay, the page says that you guys are there's port delays last week on
Wancho. You're like, hey, the carabiners are all broken or they're recalled or whatever you want to say,
but then Nick's tweeting on Twitter that you're shipping out 15,000 backpacks next week.
So what gives? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. All of those things are true.
Yeah, there have been port delays.
Okay, the carabiner is a problem,
but we are going to fix it post delivery.
So that way you'll get to just use it because it's perfectly usable.
It's just that the carabiners zipper poles are not as durable as we'd like.
We are working on a solution. You will get a solution in the mail,
but you will get that after you get your backpack.
So all of those things are true and we have tons and tons of containers landing.
I think we have about 10 containers landing
and we're going to be shipping those out as quickly as we can.
You guys are probably seeing things on Twitter people up.
You're seeing some new reviews.
Yeah, both people are actually getting screwdrivers and backpacks now.
It's not all fake which isn't which is amazing.
Yes, it is a toque game grime, but I'm trying to speak to my American friends toque toque.
All right. I think that's pretty much it.
I thought I saw someone asking about oh black shaft screwdrivers.
Yeah, those are going to start shipping probably about the end of the month.
If everything goes according to plan.
All right, there's the deal. Did you go over the deal for the store?
I did. Okay. Why don't we do a couple of merch messages? Dan hit me.
Okay, sure. I got one here from Marcy fan.
Noctua is releasing a thermal pace guard for Ryzen 7000.
Did you have problems with getting paste in the notches PS
watched Luke's mom episode of the wan show again today
and it was hysterics. There's a there's a few of those.
I think yes getting paste in the notches is a bit of a pain in the butt.
And as far as I can tell we actually got a couple of Noctua's paste guards in the lab
and it works as advertised it keeps paste out of the notches to be clear that paste in the notches.
It's not it's not going to affect performance or anything.
It's just gross and hard to clean.
So yes, it works. Oh, Dan's echoing.
Fortunately, Dan happens to be the one who sets up the audio for wan show.
So if you want to complain about it, you can complain to him directly.
Got his dan cam on here. I wasn't listening to you.
I was listening to the output. You were listening to me just fine.
No, I got to hear this. Hold on.
Why am I echoing? Should I read? Do you want me to read? I can read.
Okay. Hey Linus, I think we get this question fairly often,
but I'm a long time fan since the NCX days and a new dad.
Do you have any tech tips with regard for raising babies slash toddlers?
Oh man. No general tips. Only tech tips. Only tech tips.
I don't know. I mean, this is not a quick bit.
You don't need a crazy fancy baby monitor there.
That's a tech tip. We had just like a cheap audio only just basic baby monitor.
And it was it was all we needed. It feels like they're trying to sell you like these super advanced.
It's got the video. It's got the audio. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, okay, that goes both ways, right? Because if you've got the super basic kind that is like not internet,
it's just like completely unencrypted RF, then that has its own problems.
But at least the creepy person that comes through on your baby monitor will be someone close so you can like,
you know, grab a baseball bat and go find them if you're into that sort of thing.
Nice. Yeah, so don't get don't get suckered into overspending on on crap that they're only going to use for like,
yeah, 12 months tops. I support this message. They're not going to remember any of it.
Like for real though, it all they have to do is survive the first five years of their life.
They will not remember literally any of it.
So isn't there a bunch of like formative things? I don't know anything.
You have to love them and talk at them and stuff.
Yes. There's a lot of language about but I mean like tech.
Yeah, like yeah, you know, they're not gonna be like you didn't spurge for the video one.
You didn't buy me designer pants,
you know, like it's just it's ridiculous that every time you get me the baby Yeezys.
Every time I see a child wearing designer clothes,
I die a little bit inside like I don't know much about brands and clothes,
but those appear to be like hundred and fifty two hundred dollar pants.
Are you an idiot? Like I'm not sorry.
No hot takes no hot takes no bad bad bad lines bad Linus.
Apparently there are baby Yeezys though.
Are they for children or women?
Wait, what do you mean? Oh wait like sugar babies. Oh, I don't know. It's a bad joke.
Here these are for you baby for a child.
They look like their child Yeezys child Yeezys.
Wonderful. I can I come over to your screen.
I don't know if I'm there yet. I don't know.
I don't know what I'm looking at. Nothing incriminating though,
right? No, here we go.
$350 infant shoes.
Whoa, there's there a bunch that are sold out.
I don't care how much stock they had that shouldn't be a thing.
Those don't even look good like this is black shoes and they're $225.
That's a sandal. Okay.
It's literally just a sandal.
I mean this one actually protects your foot less.
To be clear.
I'm not saying you should buy the cheapest possible shoes for your kids.
Actually like proper support matters.
So especially when their bone structure is not set yet.
That makes sense. But you don't need to spend that much.
That's for sure. Oh man.
I know that's tough. That's pretty that's pretty tough.
All right, especially because like the infant shoes they wear them for such a short period of time.
That's another thing. You're better off buying more pairs of shoes that fit them properly,
especially if you're going to have more than one kid because then you're going to get another kid cycle out of them.
Anyways, it doesn't really matter that you bought a lot of them.
And that's another thing too is like fast fashion and disposable clothing is a huge problem.
But when it comes to like like kids clothes,
it's way less of a problem because kids wear out their clothes like nobody's business
and they're the kind of thing that they're actually are poor people who actually do need it.
Right? Like there are families in need when it comes to quality children's clothes that actually lasts.
So, you know, yeah, like buying buying garbage that's disposable still sucks,
but compared to adult clothes where you're going to wear them just like a couple of times
and then literally nobody else will ever want them again ever kids clothes totally different.
Like if you buy too many pairs of kids shoes, there will be a kid in need who needs those shoes.
Like don't don't worry as much about it. It's more important to have shoes that actually fit.
I remember that being a thing with like cleats and like different like sports shoes
for sure is like that you'd go to like Sports Replay or whatever.
Yeah, I'm super into Sports Replay. That place is awesome.
Sports Replay was sick. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're still open.
That's cool. I actually didn't know that. Yeah.
I went there recently. I picked up some stuff for my son.
Like some I needed like ski poles and I'm sitting here going what I'm going to buy brand new like metal rods.
Stick of metal. What if I'm a f***ing idiot?
Well, the fancy ones are hollow. We use ones for hollow.
We've had hollow rod technology for decades.
I mean, it's not made out of wood. But uh,
but yeah, I remember things like cleats would be in relative short supply,
especially when a new season would start or whatever.
So yeah, that's that's all that's all good as well.
I guess too like this isn't things I would think about
but the tops of shoes probably take a lot more damage on an infant
because of crawling and stuff. Oh 100%.
So yeah, they're going to thrash through that stuff.
Oh, oh for sure. R.Y. over on Twitch chat says,
yeah, but they're reinforced slash built with more quality.
Yeah, that's a degenerate Twitch thing to say.
Do you know how much a child weighs? How reinforced does a metal rod need to be?
Okay, I'm just I'm just teasing. I'm just teasing.
I think you were probably trolling. Apparently orphanages are like overrun with baby Jordans.
This is something that I have not actually looked into but that sounds hilarious.
Why did Luke not know it was still open? Does he not buy things?
No, I don't. I still have my same pair of cleats from when I was in grade 11.
They still fit. There's actually something I own from almost that far back.
Remember a couple seasons ago, we went snowboarding. The pants I was wearing,
the snowboard pants I was wearing, I got when I was 19.
There you go. And the jacket was not far behind.
I have owned both of those. Do you remember what I was using for a jacket?
I've been on this kick for a bit. It's a windbreaker with a sweater under it.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. That's fine. That's a good hack.
That's a good hack. I think that's actually like pretty smart.
That's a legit hack. I don't mind buying a pair of snowboard pants though,
just because they've got the waterproof seat and you end up,
you know, especially when you're snowboarding with kids or a wife.
My wife. My wife. My wife. You end up sitting and waiting a lot.
So you can you kind of need the waterproof, but yeah, snowboard pants are legit.
All right. Want to give us one more merch message before we move on?
Sure thing. Yeah, I'm going to try some ASMR. I think we're getting some slap back here.
This is from Alex. Linus, have your opinions on electric motorcycles changed?
A few years ago on the WAN Show, you were lukewarm on them.
I got a Zero recently as a cheap way into the EV space
and have loved it. Curious on your thoughts. A Zero?
Yeah. Yeah, Zero is a brand of electric motorcycle.
I haven't touched one since the last time I talked about it.
So no, I can't say that my feelings on them have changed.
I just, I got on it and I was like, this thing has no soul.
I no longer wish to be on it. And my, one of my questions for you would be,
well, did you ever, did you ever ride a gas-powered motorcycle?
Because it's the, I don't, like, I'm not even a petrol head, right?
Like, I'm not a car guy, but there's something about the gear change, right?
Like, it's not about just the zero to 60, right?
It's not about what speed you're getting to.
It's about the push. It's the journey.
It's that, it's that push when you, like, kick into a new gear.
Like, it's exciting. It's thrilling. And I just don't feel it on the, on the EV.
I went for a test drive and just, I had the money on hand.
I was ready to buy it. And I walked out with,
like, a service deal for my gas-powered motorbike that I've continued to ride since then.
I actually am super excited. No, yeah, it's called Torque.
No, no, I know it's called Torque, but it's the rhythm of it.
It's not just the torque. An EV bike has lots of torque.
You could, you could kind of replicate that experience by going onto the throttle
and then off and then onto it again.
It's not the same thing. It's not alive, right? Like, it's, it's different.
And so what I, what I actually spent my electric bike money on
is just completely giving the, the gas-powered bike a once-over.
And I also treated myself to something really stupid.
For a combination of furniture painting and painting my bike,
I actually picked up a paint sprayer.
But not just like, like, I, we already own a paint sprayer,
like, here at the office for, like, spraying the side of a building,
like, we have, like, that kind. But, like, a fine paint sprayer,
like, so you can get, like, a really nice finish.
Nice. And I am going to do up my bike this off-season in Lambo Pink and Green.
Yes! I, like, was pretty sure it was coming, but not a hundred percent sure.
That's fantastic. That's awesome.
Yeah, I'm really excited. I'm going to do my helmet too.
I bought, like, a boring grey helmet, and I'm going to do the, like, the green stripes.
The green stripes? Yeah, I'm so excited. Nice.
I, uh, I think if you lived somewhere where you could bike more often,
and it was, like, you biked to work actually every day and stuff like that,
it could maybe make more sense for electric bike,
because then it's being done for economical reasons.
Yes. But when it's a entertaining thing that you can do for a relatively short window of time.
Yeah. Due to living in a rainforest.
Well, it's not even just that, like, almost any time I go anywhere,
I have a passenger, even commuting to work. I work with my wife, right?
Like, we're coming from the same place, going to the same place,
and she does not like riding on the back of the bike.
So that's not really an option. So I almost never get to ride it anyway.
So if I'm only going to ride it for fun, then it's going to have to be fun.
Yeah, which totally makes sense to me. We should probably jump into another tech topic,
then maybe do some sponsors, you know, that sort of thing.
Yeah. What do you want to talk about? Do you want to talk about, uh,
consoles? Yeah, let's talk about console. Are console exclusives fair or no?
Sony is beefing with Microsoft over the Activision Blizzard acquisition.
That is a lot of big games,
and there's some quotes that I'm going to reference that a lot of big games thing to compare with in a moment.
Microsoft also, sorry, Microsoft is touting benefits for gamers, indie developers,
and industry professionals. How? Who knows?
Microsoft also plans to bring Call of Duty and other Activision Blizzard games to game pass.
The discussion centers around Call of Duty price because of the series.
Yeah, because of the series continued financial success
and yearly release schedule with court, which corporate people just love.
They did it to Assassin's Creed 2 and they ruined the whole series.
It was awesome. Sony complained to the.
He was talking about this on the pre-show.
Okay, it's the wounds a little raw right now.
Sony complained to the Competition and Markets Authority in the UK.
Sony believes that some Call of Duty players are likely to switch to Xbox due to in-game differences
that could emerge between the PlayStation and Xbox versions of what is supposed to be the same game.
There's also other issues. Phil Spencer, the head of Xbox,
has said that they are committed to bringing Call of Duty to PlayStation for several more years.
Apparently behind the scenes that has been communicated as exactly three years to PlayStation,
which they say is inadequate on many levels
and fails to take into account the impact on our gamers,
also known as customers, also known as sources of money. Also known as us.
Yeah, sources of money. I like that. Yeah, that's good.
Thanks, Philip. Our source of money. Hey, not much money.
It's a mystery water bottle. That's the discounted water bottle.
You can get mystery t-shirts, mystery water bottles, and mystery cable ties
if you don't care what color and style and it's a good way to save a few bucks.
Some of the counter-arguments is that PlayStation currently has a larger share of the console gaming market than Xbox,
but the CMA, or the Competition and Markets Authority,
considers that Call of Duty is sufficiently important that losing access to it,
or losing access on competitive terms, the differences between platforms thing,
could significantly impact Sony's revenues and user base. Abso-freaking-lutely.
Yeah. There's a quote from Microsoft chairman and CEO Satay Nadella,
who responded by saying, the number one player in gaming, in this case, Sony.
Wait, hold on. The number one player, in this case, Sony.
I think in this period. Oh, I think in this period has acquired three companies.
So if this is about competition, let us have competition.
I don't think that's fair. I think that's ridiculous.
My reason for that is Activision Blizzard is huge.
Yeah, acquiring Activision Blizzard is not necessarily comparable to the acquisitions that Sony was pulling off.
And it's not like you haven't made other acquisitions as well, Microsoft.
I think that is an extremely misleading quote.
And speaking of misleading things that are trying to sway people,
they also made a website about specifically just this. A pro-merger website?
Are you kidding me? News.microsoft.com slash Activision dash Blizzard dash acquisition.
Our vision for gaming. More choice and more games for people everywhere,
except that's definitely not true. Benefits of Activision plus,
or sorry, Xbox plus Activision Blizzard. Benefits for players. Benefits for game creators.
More ways to get games in front of more players through support investment and better access to gamers.
Schwatt? It's Satya, not Satay.
My bad. Sorry. Satya Nadella. Right after I said it, I was like, I'm pretty sure I screwed that up.
Greater competition in traditional gaming where Sony and Nintendo remain the biggest.
So that's their argument that they are not being anti-competitive,
that they are not a traditional gaming company.
They've been trying to fight this argument since Xbox series.
Yeah. When did the first Xbox launch?
I mean, how long do you have to have been in this space to be traditional?
Yeah. Xbox launch first. No, I think the argument there is that their console is not like,
it's not, we're not a normal console. 2001. Media station stuff and whatnot.
They've been in the market over 20 years.
You can't just be like, oh yeah, we're like the, you know,
we're just the not traditional gaming company.
Okay, someone in full-page chat said three years on top of an already in place contract.
So that's six to seven years in total. All it is is kicking the can down the road.
Whereas I understandably Sony wants to keep the can.
They want to make sure that their platform is going to have support
for Call of Duty indefinitely, right? Given what a cash cow it is,
I can totally understand why they would want to do that. With that said,
I don't think Sony has been,
I don't think Sony's hands are particularly clean when it comes to delivering an even gaming experience
on alternate platforms for their first party titles.
You know that picture of the spider-men pointing at each other?
That's this situation. Yeah.
So, you know, I think that on the one hand I look at it
and I go, is Microsoft's behavior anti-competitive?
Absolutely. Is this website a giant load of horse s***?
Absolutely. Is Sony's behavior equally anti-competitive,
if not more so, abso-freaking-lutely? And is Nintendo worse than either of them?
Yes. It's an extremely toxic space.
Gamers, gamers, why are you toxic? From top to bottom.
Yeah, from the corporate side to the individuals.
It's just kind of bad. Can't we all just get along?
One thing that really surprises me about the Microsoft plan to acquire Activision Blizzard,
is that Blizzard and Acti- whatever, Activision Blizzard is such a gross company.
I'm surprised this isn't in here,
but there's another lawsuit on Blizzard for the same stuff.
Like, is it fresh or is it from the same era? Which, to be clear,
I am not bringing up because it excuses it in any way.
I am bringing up because what I want to know is have there been any reforms recently under Microsoft?
Yeah. It is equally abhorrent whether it happened a year ago, 10 years ago,
or a hundred years ago. One day ago, Activision Blizzard is once again being sued for sexual harassment.
This isn't in the doc. I don't have a lot of immediate notes on this.
I just saw it come up again.
This is my level of impress right now.
But yeah, it's happening again, and I'm actually really- ABK?
Yeah, but not everyone knows what ABK means. I know what ABK means, but-
I don't know what ABK means.
Activision Blizzard King.
So this is my point. Not everyone knows what ABK means.
So Activision Blizzard and King, if you care about mobile games-
Oh, King, like Candy Crush.
Yeah.
Oh yeah, who cares?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, Activision Blizzard bought them. They bought them out.
It's not like it was a merger of equals.
Yeah. I don't know.
I'm just surprised that Microsoft wants to touch this because it's so gross.
Well, they own it now.
Do they actually already?
Activision Blizzard? I thought so.
I know it was agreed on, but I don't think it's actually gone through.
Yeah, you're right. It hasn't entirely gone through.
Maybe they think they can clean house. I don't know.
I hope they clean house really intensely when they do it because this is crazy.
Apparently it was from the past. HR did fire that person, but only after years of complaints.
Okay, okay. Well, I mean, at least there's not new stuff happening as far as we know.
I mean, yeah.
I wouldn't be surprised if there is.
I mean, if it takes years of complaints for anything to come of it, then maybe we just don't know yet.
There was 700 reported incidents of rampant sexism, harassment, and discrimination under CEO Bobby Kotick.
Yeah, your favorite person.
Oh, yeah.
He's a big fan.
Just a wonderful human being.
Yeah, he's a big fan of Bobby Kotick.
I hate him.
That was a big slash S. Can I just clarify for y'all?
But yeah, honestly, ever since the beginning, I've been really surprised that Microsoft was doing this just because of the major...
Yeah, and Bobby's still there.
Yeah, he's such a resilient little...
No, I'll stay it, but he's very resilient.
That's what I'll say.
He'd probably survive a nuclear blast.
So you're saying he's a cockroach.
Yeah.
There we go.
Somehow, he's able to dodge all of these bullets.
That was just a way for you to call him a cockroach, wasn't it?
Yep.
Okay.
I see what you did there.
Yeah.
But yeah, I don't understand how very clearly he's been a part of these things, but everyone's just like, it's fine.
He could stay.
We'll just fire everyone else.
After the merger, he still stays CEO of Activision Blizzard.
Somehow stays around.
And I feel like it shouldn't be a surprise that while all this crazy stuff is going on,
it came out that he was having meetings with Microsoft to sell everything,
but then he wants to still stay around because he's like,
well, I'll just have someone else take these shots.
I have no idea how he's able to stay around.
Get rid of him. Get rid of him.
And get rid of us not talking about our sponsors yet.
Yeah.
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Guess who's going to be joining us on the WAN Show very shortly?
I have no idea. The one and only Colton Potter.
Oh. Can you guys hear him all right?
I hope you can hear him all right. He'll pick up the cup.
I think he's driving drives long way to work lives in the middle of nowhere for some reason.
It does seriously. Clearly I'm being blocked.
Ignore. Sorry, Mr. Cole. You're not sorry.
You're not sorry, even a little. Yeah, this guy.
All right. Well, we'll try him again later.
I was hoping speaking of ltx that we could announce dates.
Oh, yeah, we do know them. I don't really know is booked.
I don't understand why we can't if the venue is booked.
I don't know. Yeah, I'm not in charge of these things.
What do I what do I know about any of this? Yeah.
I just work here. Yeah. So I'm hoping that we can announce them.
I'll try him on teams. Maybe he's like at his computer and he doesn't have his phone or something.
So while that's ringing, oh, that's really loud.
Sorry. Why don't we start something else?
We did consoles Quest Pro. Yeah.
Hey, if I'm an investor, right?
Okay, I'm I'm a Wall Street fat cat or whatever else.
Okay. I'm looking at what Mr. Zuckerberg over there is doing with meta and this giant giant money furnace that he's running over there with the metaverse.
And I am sitting here going what the F are you smoking son?
Because for him to come out and say that he wants a VR AR headset to be as essential as a cell phone has become like on the one hand.
Yeah, I can I can see it. I can see I can envision that future.
I could write a sci-fi, you know, get scared, you know, I could write some short story.
Okay about that future and it would be sick. It would be so cool.
The problem though, is that just like with the rest of the technology industry Moore's Law ain't going to get us there
or because of the way that Moore's Law is slowing down any any line that we draw
to extrapolate where we're going to reach this supposed future where our AR glasses that can either fully block out the light
or they can augment our reality with like superimposed menus over restaurants
or you know names and the names of their kids that you know parties of people that we don't see that often.
The future where those actually look like a friggin regular pair of glasses is so far out that I don't know if my kids will live to see it.
Let alone, you know me and Mark who I think are I think we're the same age.
How old's Mark Zuckerberg? No idea. Ready player one already exists?
No, unless you're literally trying to be super literal and you're talking about like the book and the movie.
Yeah. Yeah, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about something that could actually go mainstream.
Yeah, that's not he's talking about the like the headsets and the the technical level of the headsets not not.
Yeah. Yeah, not the not the concept. The concept is there.
I mean the you know, the the metaverse. Okay, it's a thing.
The problem is that we're sitting here going. Okay.
They just announced the meta quest Pro,
which is a fifteen hundred dollar VR headset with one to two hours of battery life.
Okay, hold on. We'll get we'll get sorry new processor new screen dramatically redesigned body
and controllers inward facing cameras for the eye and face tracking that it can do
and a color video feed for mixed reality apps.
Okay, the quest Pro is going to sit alongside the 399 quest to which metal will continue selling as well.
But where the quest to is mostly focused on fitness games and entertainment.
The quest Pro is aimed at businesses and professionals who can afford its higher price tag
and there are applications for VR in a professional setting for sure.
Like for example, you know allowing a client to walk through an architectural design
or allowing one allowing a shopper in a in a virtual showroom to see
what that couch might look like in their living room.
There's there's totally valid use cases for it.
The problem is that those are all business use cases that are temporary.
They're only needed while you are shopping for that item or working on that project.
They are not something that you actually need to carry around with you day-to-day.
And this device is not even close.
Not even close to something that you would want to wear for long periods of time.
It's way better better, but it's still big.
Yeah, it's still heavy still has like a forehead plate.
I think for that will be a big indicator when we don't necessitate forehead plates anymore.
Yeah, when I can drive down the road wearing it that's when it can go mainstream
and we are just like like we're so far away.
I mean, I remember when the first VR headsets were coming out what like seven,
eight years ago was really when like DK one started landing in the hands of consumers about right.
Yeah, maybe a little bit longer than that.
Yeah, I remember then us going like yeah,
but with with the state of the advancement of this technology,
we're going to see the pixel density go like and we're going to see the processing power go
and it's going to be it's going to be amazing.
It's gonna be that didn't happen to be fair.
It also it also went in a direction that I think neither you
nor I suspected where they moved the processing power to the device.
Yes. And that still feels like the wrong way to me.
It's I don't work in the space.
I'm probably wrong for a bunch of reasons,
but it's the right way for now.
What we're going to need is they're going to they're never okay.
Well, I shouldn't say never never say never they could be standalone devices,
but I think realistically we're going to go from relying on a connected device
where we started was a computer to being standalone with a computer built into the headset to relying on a connected device.
But this time a wireless link to a computer in your pocket.
Yeah, and then back to being a standalone device.
If we managed to get there and that'll be like way future that is probably going to happen over a span of decades.
And this is not just based on nothing right?
Like I think we saw the early VR headsets
and we assumed a similar development path like a similar trajectory of miniaturization
and increases in performance that drove the personal computer
to just unbelievable Heights throughout the 90s and the early 2000s,
right, but we didn't get that we got Moore's Law already slowing down and development actually being pretty slow.
I mean, we've only seen what since the original Rift actually launched maybe two actual generations of VR headsets where we look at and go.
Yeah, that's a lot better than the previous one.
And I don't think that the experience has aside from better resolution in the screen
and to be in fairness like Facebook has done some pretty incredible stuff with the limited processing power that they have in these standalone devices.
Other than better pixel density and higher FPS and not by as much as I might have thought.
I don't think the experience is fundamentally really changed that much.
And like I actually finally got a chance to play around with the HoloLens.
It sucks.
It's like blaggy and the field of view sucks.
And when did they first announce HoloLens?
Like goodness gracious wasn't that back in the Google Glass days?
So it would have been like also like seven years ago.
Yeah, I think it's about seven years ago.
I think DK1 is more than that.
Well, I mean when it actually started landing in people's hands
because we did that collab with Lou right from Unbox Therapy and that was an old house.
We've been in this building for seven years.
So and then we were maybe eight.
I think we've been here almost eight years.
Luke. It's like nine.
No, no because the company is going to turn 10.
Yeah, and we were in the house for six months.
Then we were in the other more different house for about a year and a half.
Okay, so we've been here about eight years.
And I think January 2015, man, I nailed it.
Go Linus. So yeah, seven years and change was when they first announced HoloLens
and it's still like it was useful.
I saw it as part of my visit to the Intel into the Intel Fab
and what was cool about it was it allowed a remote technician
to help just someone who's never seen this thing before,
you know, screw all the right things into the right things for performing maintenance
and stuff like that on these super expensive machines
where you really cannot afford any extra downtime and you can't afford a mistake.
It was absolutely usable, but it was like glitchy as crap.
And we've seen this pattern time and time and time again.
Did you see the machine learning computer vision superimposed ads on the NHL sideboards?
No, I don't think so.
It's really really bad. Check this out.
So yeah, here we go.
So guys guys look at this because the thing is like yeah,
AI machine learning computer vision.
They keep getting they keep getting better and better and better.
But this was seven years in the making.
Okay. Whoa.
Yeah, like that's a problem because see this is the actual board here,
right? Yeah, and then this is the digitally superimposed garbage.
Wow, and so passes to Rogers.
I hate it so much. Yeah, it's rough.
And I know I know it's really easy to look at the technology we have now and go.
Yeah, it's like it's impossible. It's never going to get better.
I'm not that I'm not that kind of person right?
Like I love technology. I want to see it advance.
It's just these are really really hard problems to solve
and to imagine for a second that we are going to take the kind of performance that is running an application like this.
Like this is a big GPU array.
This is sucking back hundreds, maybe thousands of watts.
Okay, we're going to take that and we're going to be able to seamlessly without glitches and odd behavior.
Put that in something you can wear and not look like a complete glass hole.
Okay to imagine that's going to happen in a short amount of time is ridiculous.
I mean when when Elon Musk came out and said every Tesla shipping today will be capable of full self-driving.
To anyone who knows who who follows technology who follows high-performance computing
and machine learning hardware to anyone like that.
It should have been obvious that that was not true
because we already knew that with with the technology we had then even if they were so efficient.
They were double the performance of the GPUs of that time or triple.
It wasn't even close. It wasn't even close.
Yeah, I when did I do that event?
Whenever I went to Facebook to go visit Oculus.
I said it was going to be 10 years or no.
I didn't say it was going to be 10 years.
The guy I was interviewing with that was there said it was going to be 10 years
and I agreed because I was saying similar things outside of that
but then someone at Facebook actually literally said it and I was like,
thank you 10 years for what since it until it'll actually turn mainstream.
Oh, I see what you mean.
Yep, and that made sense to me and now I'm feeling like that was actually not conservative enough.
Yeah, because like there's arguments that can be made for quest to actually did go mainstream
because they are trying to differentiate this they are saying that it's for professionals
and is coming and it will be low prices people and quest 3 blah blah blah blah.
So I don't think this is like the death of it or whatever.
I'm concerned about the jump that quest 3 will be if that makes sense.
Because people are going to hate this.
I bet you a very very huge amount of those quest twos are sitting in boxes.
Really? I think so.
How often do you hear about them?
Oh sitting in boxes like not being used.
Yeah, like people bought them got some really good use out of them.
I think they genuinely did got some exercise.
I think people enjoyed it.
I think it was good.
And then there were things that were kind of annoying people were definitely able to tell that it's not really there yet.
It's not really ready yet.
It's still a little laggy.
It doesn't feel that great.
This is interesting.
I scrolled down to the reviews section
and even though it is overwhelmingly 5 star 4 star the top reviews,
which I don't fully understand exactly what the logic is are all negative negative with lots of people finding them helpful.
Yeah, IPD sucks.
Everything's blurry hate having to have Facebook for this.
Yep a month later.
It's an annoying brick.
Yep.
Okay, is this just a man?
Okay.
Is this part of this just review by bombing a lot of people have a Facebook account and to them.
It is not a huge impediment that you need a Facebook account for this thing.
And I don't think you even need it anymore.
I don't think you need it anymore might be a bit of a mix.
I might be getting influenced by the like Facebook never to negativity.
Not gonna lie.
I mean as well you don't use your VR headset much though.
Do you not much?
I don't have space for it.
Oh Colton's available.
Oh goodie.
I'm kidding.
I'm kidding hashtag love Colton.
Apparently Hassan needs help with his computer.
Well, then maybe he should buy a computer next time so that he'll have support for it.
He got a free computer.
Yeah, can we announce the ltx dates?
Oh, we can announce the ltx date.
Nice.
He should do it when they are Linus because I do know I don't July 29th and 30th 2023.
Okay, 29th and 30th and that's when the Backstreet Boys are going to be in Vancouver then right stop.
No, no, maybe I don't know.
I didn't check.
I wouldn't be surprised with your luck Saturday Sunday Saturday Sunday.
Okay, July 29th and 30th 2023.
Okay, you heard it here first ladies and gentlemen and it's happening.
No matter what I don't care if like, you know, we're doing it even if you're not with us anymore.
Yeah, exactly.
Even if I don't work for the car.
I'm going to be there.
All right, that sounds good.
Perfect.
All right.
All right.
Thanks Colton.
Thanks.
Bye.
So there it is.
If you have any other reason to be in Western, Canada, then that's a good time to line it up.
So you can come hang with us at LTX 2023.
I'm excited going to be fun.
Plot twist is when Blink-182 is touring Vancouver.
Yeah, Tom is back.
I know right?
It's weird.
I know right?
It's weird.
Blink-182 man.
It's weird.
But yeah, I honestly, I hope I'm wrong.
I don't want to be right about this.
If I'm wrong, that would be great and individual people are going to tweet me and be like,
mine's not routing in a box and I'm going to be like, that means nothing.
You're a single person size of one.
Yeah, I suspect that a surprisingly high percentage of quest twos are sitting forgotten and unused.
They there is definitely a user base that is still using them and that's great.
That's good.
Hooray.
But yeah, like going from an index to a quest to was disappointing.
Oh, well, yeah, but like big time.
Well, yeah, like I didn't really want to play it at all.
Well, yeah.
Yeah.
So I like it's okay.
Yeah, it's it's not it's not something that yeah,
it's like not really ready in my opinion and I'm not necessarily certain that quest three is going to be able to fully bridge that gap.
I hope it does.
Yeah, my assumption is that it won't.
But maybe it will what are other major topics to talk about here.
Oh and other in video news.
Actually, we've got a few things here.
They quietly removed the light hash rate limiter.
Oh, yeah in their latest driver.
Apparently now that the theory of mining is not really a thing.
There is other mining but guess they don't care about that because nobody's doing it.
Anyway, they have actually removed the limit so you can mine to your heart's content on light hash rate cards.
And I wanted to give you guys an update on Markbench the benchmark and our 4090 situation.
So in our 4090 review, we actually had some numbers that were not accurate particularly for if I recall correctly Cyberpunk 2077 was one of them.
And then there were there were a couple of other there were a couple of other issues.
We're gonna have I think a full update for you guys on what exactly happened,
but it seems to stem from some platform instability that was causing crashes that were causing the game to reset settings that we had already applied and the numbers were wrong.
Now, that's no excuse because we should have at some stage in our review caught that those numbers looked as the kids say sus
and we should have fixed them.
But all I can really say at this point is yes,
we should have we're going to do better going forward
and that doesn't mean that we're going to throw the baby out with the bathwater here.
Markbench development is absolutely moving forward.
We're expecting it to do nothing but improve
and one of the things that we're going to improve about it is this kind of built-in sanity checking.
We've also got a new workflow where everything is going to have to be reviewed by an additional pair of eyes before publication.
And hopefully this will be the last time you guys see something like that from us.
The next big launch is of course going to be Intel's 13th gen processors and we are well underway with testing very very excited to share the results with you guys.
I guess that's pretty much it for that.
There's going to be a video detailing a little bit more of exactly what went wrong because we've also come across some very curious performance anomalies on AM5
separate from what we observed in our Radeon RTX 4090 review.
Does Linus ever game in the stream? No, this is the WAN show.
Twitch chat. Just I can't you guys. Technically if he if the person is asking on this channel then then yes.
Oh, sure. I guess very infrequently. Is there anything else we want to talk about?
I mean, I guess there was the Surface event. Surface Pro X and Surface Pro 8 have both received refreshes.
It exists. Pro 8 is now Intel 12th gen, which is better.
And the Pro X gets a new Microsoft SQ3 ARM processor provided by Qualcomm.
Both the Pro 8 and Pro X are now integrated into one Pro 9 line available October 25th or you can preorder now.
Not that we'd recommend that. You should wait until it's been reviewed.
And it starts at a thousand for the Pro 8 and the Pro X becomes the Pro 9 with 5G starting at 1300.
These are very confusing naming. Okay.
They'll make the CPU the only difference between the ARM and the non ARM models.
And Surface Laptop 5 is now all Intel. No AMD option.
Whoops. Okay. People are pointing out that you also played minor VGA on Wanshow.
I actually did do that. Okay, that's fair. And there's a Surface Studio 2 Plus, the all-in-one PC.
It has outdated specs. Cool. It has an 11th gen CPU. Cool.
And a 3060, which is definitely good timing for a new device launch with the GPU in it.
Nice. GPU's around the corner. Okay, cool. Why don't we do some merch messages?
Yeah. Dan, hit me my man.
Get back in here. Let's see. Okay. This is from Eric.
Hey Linus, I know you play badminton a lot, but have you ever tried pickleball?
Big thanks to all the LTT crew. I have tried pickleball.
It's super fun. And when I get too old to play badminton,
I will definitely play me some pickleball. Why is that a thing?
Is there less movement? It's kind of funny.
Like particularly doubles, high level pickleball can be played with actually very little movement
because the projectile doesn't need to bounce.
So it ends up being a lot of like both partners,
like kind of like volleying like back and forth like in the air without bouncing.
So because you can cover so much of the court space and like lobbing it over the person is very difficult.
So a lot of seniors play pickleball kind of like that and it's a way to stay active,
but not like have to run around the court like you do in something like badminton.
And like like big sudden lunges. Yeah, exactly. Which can be really bad. Exactly.
Next question. Okay, this one's from Tristan.
What is your advice for young adults who are transitioning into independence?
I don't know. I don't know if I ever if I ever transition into independence.
Some one of the jokes that I make sometimes depending on if it's an appropriate joke to make,
is that I've never bought a pair of underwear for myself.
I went straight from my mom buying my underwear to Yvonne buying my underwear.
So wow. To Nick buying my underwear. Yeah.
In all fairness, I don't buy my own underwear anymore.
I didn't really think about that. Wow. Thanks, Nick.
Yeah. Got another one from anonymous.
Hey Linus, is the company interested in whale investors?
If so, who do I reach out to?
Well, the first thing you're going to want to do is figure out how to speak a language other than...
I mean, they did type this out. Like it's beautiful, but I don't really understand it.
Yeah. So that's tough. Fair enough.
Yeah, I if text is an option, right,
like if you've got an accessible keyboard that allows you to like fin type or you know,
my understanding is whales often have quite agile like mouths, dextrous.
Yeah, dextrous mouths. Yeah, then that's that's an option.
So you could you could type we could correspond via text.
As for who to reach out to about it.
Okay, in all seriousness, I will actually answer your question right now.
We are not looking for any outside investment right now.
We are we're pretty we're pretty flush with cash.
Actually, the community response to both the backpack and screwdriver launch has been overwhelming.
We have covered our like our development costs for both of those projects
and are now in the black on both of them.
They're both shipping. We're in we're in great shape.
I mean, there's always I mean, it always depends on the magnitude and the terms.
If you have a billion dollars and you still let him do whatever he wants.
Maybe there's a conversation there. Yeah, I'd have that conversation for sure.
But like it's how big of a whale you are.
I mean, if you're if you're that big of a whale,
you probably have someone on staff who's smart enough to figure out how to get in touch with also that.
So, you know, it's like it's that sort of thing, right? But it's like do you have enough blubber?
Do you have enough blubber? Yeah, it's a good question.
It's a good question though. Like to be clear.
It's not like we it's not like we couldn't use some investment.
Like if you were to come and say, yeah,
look, I only want a small percentage of the action
and this investment is going to be such that Creator Warehouse could have multiple logistics hubs.
Bring the whole thing in-house and you could, you know,
I don't know, I don't know, you know,
you could triple the footprint of the lab and accelerate the,
you know, minimum viable product from 18 months to like 12 months.
You know, if it was if it was really going to have a real impact on our ability to scale,
then maybe but as it is right now, we are not cash limited.
We're limited by like it's hard to hire.
We're limited by just the pace of decision-making,
right? Like you don't want to just expand for the sake of expanding.
You want to make sure that everything you're doing is carefully considered and meaningful.
You don't want to just build more products because you like had a cash infusion
and these like build as many products as you can.
That's that's not a that's not a healthy way to grow
and I think that would be a disservice to the investor if they were to come in and say,
yeah, well, like my expectation is my investment grows.
So do things dumb that are different from how you used to do them like that's not good,
right? So I would have to feel like we're providing, you know,
a good value for you and I feel like in the situation we're in right now,
we probably wouldn't be. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, we've had a we've had a lot of conversations internally about,
you know, what would be the right ways to raise money and there's,
you know, the answer usually comes down to don't.
Yeah. Yeah, because no matter what it is, like on the one hand,
it sounds cool, right? To say like community ownership.
Oh, we get a big burst and oh, yeah, that too.
Right? Like, oh, yeah, we're the we're like the community-owned media outlet or something like that.
But at the end of the day, anytime there's an opportunity to make money,
you're going to have people who are not community members,
who are investors, who are just looking for a return.
And investors typically want a return that beats other returns.
They're putting their money to work. That's the whole wheel.
That's the whole mouse wheel that everyone's running on is,
it's not about just running a profitable,
successful company with a good brand image and with ethical practices.
Well, that's not good for investors. Investors want you to maximize profits
so that their money is working as hard as it possibly can.
And I'm not going to promise that.
Yeah, your money might not work as hard as it can
because we might think that that isn't the right thing to do.
You know, like there's verticals that we just don't accept sponsorships from outright.
We've had so many opportunities to take, for example, supplement sponsors.
There is a ton of money in supplements.
That's a minefield. That's a huge minefield.
Let me tell you about how much money there is in supplements because it costs nothing,
right? And it's like 40 bucks for this jar of God only knows
what that has who knows what effect, right?
And so I've always just been extremely uncomfortable with it.
Like that I could there would be exceptions where I
where I could potentially take a sponsorship from a company that is like a drug you put in your body.
Like Mark Cuban's thing looks super cool that super low-cost pharmaceuticals.
Oh, yeah, that's totally different though.
But that's totally that's that's wicked but totally different.
Yeah, that's a totally different situation.
So, you know, I feel like if we had investors breathing down my neck going.
Well, well, if you guys had your own line of supplements,
then you guys could be increasing your revenue by 20% and look at the margin.
Like I don't want to deal with that.
I don't want to deal with that. It's gross.
You want some more? Yeah. All right. This one's from Logan.
I have finally convinced a friend who loves retro gaming to buy a PC.
I built many for my friends,
but this time she has had so many issues that at this point.
I feel like I've made a mistake has something ever happened to you like this.
Yeah. Yeah, of course. Of course.
Yes. I mean we were talking about it earlier on the stream.
Hassan is having problems with the leftist PC that we built him
and I'm sitting here going.
Well, now it's my problem,
except I've been through this enough times that I'm sitting here going and he's got money.
You buy a different computer if he doesn't like it or pay for someone to deal with it.
Yeah, and like I know that when it's a when it's like a personal friend
and you like built it for them and they actually like probably paid for it.
Unlike Hassan. Yeah, there's there's an emotional.
I don't know. I don't know how to describe it,
but definitely like regret remorse upset that goes along with it.
Like you the last thing you want to do as the the tech friend,
right is get someone to buy the wrong thing because then a they wasted their money and B.
They damaged like the trust that it's your reputation on the line.
Like I take I take my reputation seriously
if I recommend something and you guys are like,
hey that company was actually a total grift.
I feel awful. Right?
So yeah. Yeah, I get it.
Yeah, and more like problems.
I mean, I don't even know what the I don't even know where to start with it.
Right? Like all you can really do is update the firmware update the drivers like maybe it's maybe it's crashing issues
or I don't know.
Okay, I got another one here from Philip Linus slash Luke.
What do you think about the imminent collapse of the SFF case manufacturer lock?
Did they price themselves out of the market with a GPU limited SFS case at 350 US dollars?
I didn't know that lock was going out of business.
But I guess that sort of reflects how important lock was.
I mean, there's so many copycats in the space that do pretty much the same thing
like in the small form factor case market in particular and the volumes are small pun intended.
So you have to make good margins on these cases in order to build a viable business.
And so that in turn keeps the volumes very small
and there's so many competitors fighting over this like handful of small form factor cases
that people actually buying because here's the thing guys.
It's super cool to do showcase builds in small form factor cases.
But like Andy for example has a small form factor PC that we did
for his Intel Extreme Tech upgrade and totally regrets it.
It's like I wish I just had a normal tower
because when the time comes to do any kind of maintenance or perform an upgrade,
you're just like oh this sucks.
I had one for my VR PC and I was like oh this sucks and now I just use MATX.
So I grabbed a Cerberus which is still really small
but actually just uses like pretty standard components
and I can get in and out of it pretty easily even then
when we were talking about the ARC 30-day challenge.
I was like, yeah, I'm only going to do it if Dan changes out my GPU for me
because it's a pain in the ass.
Yeah, I have honestly always been quite confused at the sheer volume of companies
that are in the small form factor space
because the costs to make hardware are crazy.
They're really really really high
and then you think about like how many people do you,
he probably knows more,
but how many people do you know that actually run small form factor computers?
Very few.
Very few.
Yeah, and if there was money in it, right?
Like if it was a viable business,
the big players would be more in it.
Corsair and Killer Master and those guys would be like they'd be in there hard.
Yeah.
But they've all been burned on it.
Yeah, they tried and then stopped and like there's got to be a reason for that.
Yeah, I mean Corsair has their,
oh my goodness, I can't remember what it's called,
but they've got their integrated system that's pretty small form factor.
Why do I not remember what it's called?
This is embarrassing.
One?
Yeah, the Corsair One.
Thank you.
They've got the Corsair One,
but they don't even sell that thing standalone
because it's just not viable
unless you have all the other margins of all of those components built into it
and the whole system integration, like the system integrator margin.
It just doesn't, it just doesn't make sense.
Yeah.
Yeah, Fractal has like one case.
Yes, I know there are mainstream case manufacturers
that do have small form factor cases,
but they make up a tiny fraction of the small form factor designs
that are on the market.
It's wild.
I actually don't see any independent news about Lok,
Lok Lok going out of business.
So hopefully they're not.
Hopefully they're not cases.
Yeah, they do make gorgeous cases.
I just wouldn't use one.
What do you mean damn Hassan always says he loves you on his stream.
He's going to be heartbroken.
Heartbroken about what?
I didn't say I don't like him.
I didn't say I think he's like bad.
I just said that I'm not going to fix his computer
because he has money.
He can get a different one if he doesn't like it.
Or pay someone else to fix it.
Yeah, or pay someone else to fix it.
Like that's the thing is like I can't be,
I can't be someone's tech support forever
because I give them a free computer, right?
Like that's, that doesn't make any sense.
The math doesn't work out, you know?
Maybe he should, I mean,
I replied to his tweet complaining about it.
I was like, you should buy a StarForge PC then.
Yeah, they made that their banner on Twitter.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, only for a little while.
Duh.
Yeah.
Well, I told them I was like,
hey, without the context,
this looks like a much stronger endorsement
than I would actually be willing to give.
That makes sense.
And they were like, yeah, don't worry.
We were going to pull it down like pretty quick style.
That all makes sense.
I was like, to be clear, to be clear,
I'm super cool with it.
I think it's hilarious,
but you actually may not leave this here long-term,
was kind of how I phrased it.
And they were, they were super cool about it.
Yeah.
All right, hit us again.
Okay, Luke, as the one now in charge of LMG software development,
what are your thoughts on the industry's general attitude to testing
or lack thereof for either software in general
or even video games?
Wow, that's a broad question.
That is a really, really broad question.
Yeah, development styles is a conversation
that we could talk about for hours.
We could have a 3-hour WAN show about development styles.
So I don't know, I like testing.
Testing good.
There's, I think one of the sponsors for today
is kind of about that though, isn't it?
Yeah, super cool.
So like, I don't know.
I think, I think the space for testing
is going to change quite a bit over the next five years.
And I think test-driven development is going to, wow.
This is all going to be very interesting to have thrown at me in five years.
I think test-driven development is going to be less of a thing,
even though I think it's actually kind of neat.
I think there's a lot of pitfalls with it.
And I think there's a lot of ways that,
something that I've been very frustrated,
I'm tangenting way too much.
Something that I've been very frustrated about with software development
for an extremely long time is it seems like just another space
and there are tons of these spaces out there
where a lot of it was made artificially complex
in order to try to stop gap people who like thought they were really smart
and didn't want other people to be able to do it.
There is artificial complexity in software development.
I guarantee you it's a thing.
There's talks from people that are much, much, much better than I am
talking about how the complexity and the difficulty
and some of the gear grinding that is in software development right now
is unnecessary and the development space should be ashamed of the state of it.
And I agree with a lot of that to be completely honest.
There's things coming out a little bit more recently
that are solving these types of problems.
And I think testing is going to get that treatment in the next five to ten years.
Could I be wrong?
Abso-freaking-lutely.
I have no idea, but I think I'll leave you with that.
I've got the link.
Loki, which is apparently how it's pronounced.
They're having a liquidity sale starting yesterday.
So they've slashed prices in order to alleviate some cash flow issues, apparently.
There you go. So that's what's going on.
Yeah, I've got a couple here that are more like the potential ones.
Why don't we try one of these?
Oh, sure.
Hey, love the WAN show and had to purchase a second gift card to figure out how merch messages work.
Anyway, Linus, have you given the new Anker A10 Sleep earbuds a try yet?
I have not. Sorry.
Okay, let's go for another one.
Before writing your own automated benchmarking tool at the labs,
did you check out Phoenix Benchmark Suite, openbenchmarking.org?
And if so, why did you decide against using and expanding those?
For onyx, but basically I was not involved in the decision.
That's the whole thing. When you hire a team of,
you know, smart people is you have to kind of trust them to make decisions.
And that would be a really great question for Gary.
Maybe I can get an answer for you for next week.
But the truth is I actually do not know.
We've had a lot of people ask whether Markbench is going to end up being free to use or whether it will be an open source tool.
The answer is we intend to make it free to use for individuals and not necessarily for commercial use.
And as for making it open source, that is something that we are absolutely going to explore.
But it's not something that we are going to guarantee at this time.
There was a miss post on the forum that was put up before anyone had actually talked to me about it,
where we had said it was going to be open source in the future.
Internally, I've said it's a possibility, but I have not said that it is something that is going to happen for sure.
I've got a lot of people asking why not open source?
Because it's not necessarily the best path forward.
It's not always the best path forward.
Not everyone is going to agree with that, and that's okay.
And that's fine.
And it's at our discretion.
And so we will use our discretion and, hey, your feedback is duly noted.
And it will be a factor for us.
I'm going to go with this last one if you are into this.
With Markbench or any other automation tools, UI test, MDM, et cetera,
how do you convince a skeptical boss or manager who does not want to break existing processes to invest in the cost and time required, that sort of thing?
I mean, you just have to put together a business case.
And if your boss understands basic, pretty basic math, then it should be okay.
And if your boss doesn't understand pretty basic math, then it's going to be a pretty hard time.
Sounds about right.
Is that it?
That's all I got.
I think that's it.
I had a little bit of inside baseball chat to have with you guys.
And actually, we're about to have an executive meeting on stream.
Oh.
So YouTube memberships.
Oh, right.
This.
Kind of a competitor for Floatplane, which is a bit of a sore spot for some of us wearing green shirts right now.
Delete it.
Delete it.
Yep.
Just get rid of it.
Yep.
Okay.
So that's not happening.
Right now, they get monthly exclusive deals on lttstore.com.
But what they don't get is any of the behind the scenes or like cutting room floor extra videos or anything like that that gets posted on Floatplane every like two to three days these days.
There's some really cool stuff over there.
I think we talked earlier about the behind the scenes of the intro for the StarForge Systems review, which is it's hilarious.
You know, watching all the setup for that.
Oh, wait.
No, it was in the pre-show that I was talking about Arthur trying to throw a box at me and ultimately ending up throwing it so weakly that I had to like headbutt it.
If you watch the final take on the StarForge Systems build, I like lean into it so that it actually looks like he threw the bloody thing at me.
So in the behind the scenes, you can see how many times I had him rehearse that throw.
And he was just like, I don't know, like afraid to actually throw it at me hard or something.
Anyway, right now, YouTube members do not get any of those benefits.
And we're sitting here going, like on the one hand, yeah, Floatplane is better for us.
It helps fund all of the development that we do here, not just Floatplane.
Like the Floatplane team works on all kinds of amazing stuff that benefits our company, benefits the community.
So obviously our preference is that if there's going to be some cost, right?
Our preference is that it go to building the Floatplane team, not go to YouTube hiring engineers to remove features from the website.
The amount of money that we take with a subscription off Floatplane is better than a subscription off of YouTube.
Yeah. However, a lot of people are just never going to go off platform.
Yes.
They have already entered their credit card information into YouTube.
They use like three websites total.
Yep. And it's low friction. Join. That's it.
And so we're trying to figure out a good way to serve those members without taking away the benefit, the advantage of Floatplane.
So what I'm leaning towards right now is regardless of YouTube membership or Floatplane, you get behind the scenes exclusive content.
You get the monthly deals. So we'll make sure that Floatplane gets the same thing.
But the difference is I think YouTube memberships are going to start at 10 bucks a month.
Floatplane will start at five ongoing for 1080p for now and 10 for 4K.
I mean, again, we we get a better take from Floatplane. So if you want similar return, you have to charge more.
Another possible difference is that YouTube might be channel specific.
So we might have.
That one makes sense to me. I think it would actually be weird for it to not be like that.
Yeah. Like if we upload a channel superfund behind the scenes or something like that to the LTT members, I actually don't think that makes a ton of sense.
Yeah. The Floatplane peeps, I think, are much more understanding of what exactly that platform is.
It's more like we should probably just change the name at some point. There's actually tips to Linus Media Group.
Well, there's stuff that's literally in development right now. The sub channel system. Oh, cool.
When is that going to be ready? I don't know. Don't ask me. Go away, please.
But it's coming. So that will sort of solve that problem.
It's possible that we'll reverse course and we'll just make it like, OK, yeah, the LTT channel has all of the exclusives.
But I do think it's super weird and I think that people would be less likely to understand exactly what's going on with something like that.
So I think it would probably end up just being channel specific.
And right now, the only channels that really publish behind the scenes or cutting room floor content are LTT and channel superfund.
So that's the way I'm leaning right now. But we do want to hear from the Floatplane peeps.
Is that something that you guys think is reasonable?
Because the last thing we want is for you guys who have supported us for so long to feel like,
oh, well, like, why did I have to bother dealing with the early bugs of the Floatplane platform?
Or, I mean, there were some, you know, why do I have to feel like a beta tester when these guys could have a better experience?
Oh, another thing we talked about, actually, was the potential of publishing exclusives on like a time limit.
So like on LMG Clips, maybe once in a while we put an exclusive up there for like two hours or even like eight hours or 24 hours.
And then include like bumpers at the start and the end that are like, hey, if you like this and you want to watch more of it,
we're going to have it over on Floatplane or something like that.
Like, would you guys object to us using exclusive content? Because I feel like people who are behind the scenes are like really good.
Yeah, a lot of people don't know that they're there.
Yeah, they're not dumb and boring. They're like, they're like edited and like good.
Sometimes they're unedited, but also really good.
Yeah, because that's what you want.
Yeah, like depending on what it is. And I feel like for anyone who isn't already a Floatplane subscriber, they're kind of like, oh yeah, BTS, okay, cool.
They might not realize that it's really good. Oh yeah, we should hit them with a poll.
Yeah, why don't we poll them? Do you guys mind if we use, if we use exclusives occasionally?
And I don't think we would ever upload something permanently.
I think that on a time limit, I'm kind of imagining it like a, this message will self-destruct in, you know,
this video will self-destruct in four hours or something like that. I feel like that could be kind of cool.
Whereas Floatplane will always have the full archive of every, every exclusive we've ever uploaded.
I always got to remember the first option bias or whatever it's called.
There's a thing with polls. The first option gets more votes.
Really?
It's, it's, it's like this weird thing. If I remember correctly, it's the same.
Oh, Gurgi008 says, I meant to say no, sorry.
This is kind of my point. Yeah, it's like actually, so that, yeah, the first option is going to get a little bit more.
It's, it's related, but not the same problem as how, if you, if you have standardized colors for, for teams,
like if you're playing at a school and you put, what are those called?
The little temporary pennies. If you have pennies and it's like all red versus blue or whatever,
the team that is red will play differently than,
will have their play influence slightly differently than the team that is blue.
If I remember correctly, there's some stuff where the team that is red will be more, more offense pressed.
And the team that is blue will be more defense focused.
It's very, very small, but apparently it is actually a thing.
I don't remember exactly how it goes. Whatever. Look it up yourself.
It's been a long time since I've done any reading on that. But if I remember correctly, it's, it's related.
It's the first thing that you see is the first option. If you read it that way, obviously, maybe you read it bottom up.
But the first thing that you see is your, you have your first reaction to it.
So your reaction to it's going to be the strongest. Yeah, I don't know. It's weird.
That's wild. All right. Well, just shy of 80 percent are saying no big deal.
Do what you got to do. 20 percent are saying yes, we mind.
I guess a small handful of them might have just clicked the first option.
We forgive you. It's not going to influence it to the degree of 20 percent.
Yeah. But yeah, these things are like really, really small. But yeah.
Apparently, yeah, it's been observed in League of Legends and Dota. I heard about that as well. Really?
Minor playstyle differences, depending on what, what colored side you're on.
And if I remember correctly, some games have tried to lower this influence by changing the colors to more mixed colors like purple.
It's yeah, it's really interesting. TF2 demonstrated it back in the day, possibly Halo.
Yeah, it's like it's it's totally a thing. It makes very small differences, but it's totally a thing. Got it.
OK, well, we're going to keep we'll keep our finger on the pulse of this one.
I can tell you will probably do one just to kind of see, because for all we know, it's going to confuse and and enrage YouTube viewers.
Like they might go, what do you mean this is the temporary because we've never really done that sort of thing before.
Yeah. So we'll have to see. We'll have to see.
Oh, that's an asymmetrical map. So diar side just wins more. That's stupid.
And I think that's it for the land show. Yeah. Yeah. We will see you again next week.
Same bad time, same bad channel. Bye. I actually said it this time. I'm sorry.
Hey. Wait, did you do it right? Is there just no queue? Yeah, there's no queue.
OK, sweet. It's a message and you want. Yeah.